What's up with all the blue team bashing in WATX?

#1 Posted by Rickbarry (1815 posts) - - Show Bio

It doesn't seem like you can get through an issue without something ripping Cyclops or his team. I get that he's more of a stiff kind of character and he's easier to take a shot at, but in so many issues? I don't even think Logan has been referenced in Uncanny. *Shrugs* What's the deal? I understand that Jason Aaron is about the biggest Wolverine fanboy of all time, but I've found it annoying as it continues ALL THE TIME.

Am I wrong or just butthurt over my blue team being disbanded in a few issues?

#2 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rickbarry said:

It doesn't seem like you can get through an issue without something ripping Cyclops or his team. I get that he's more of a stiff kind of character and he's easier to take a shot at, but in so many issues? I don't even think Logan has been referenced in Uncanny. *Shrugs* What's the deal? I understand that Jason Aaron is about the biggest Wolverine fanboy of all time, but I've found it annoying as it continues ALL THE TIME.

Am I wrong or just butthurt over my blue team being disbanded in a few issues?

I empathize completely. It's not clever writing at all, Jason Aaron is a Wolverine fanboy, and this event plus WatXM has proven to be a one-dimensional book that ignores any nuances and continuity. Everyone running back to Wolverine with their tails between their legs and acting as though they lost all brain cells forgetting why they sided with Cykes in the first place is PiS. Aside from Cykes himself not committing any actual evil acts but everyone claims that he's now corrupt is just convenient story-telling to further enforce a black-and-white story.

And I'm quite bother over UXM being cancelled myself.

#3 Posted by madrid_san (1805 posts) - - Show Bio

@One_Eye: @One_Eye said:

@Rickbarry said:

It doesn't seem like you can get through an issue without something ripping Cyclops or his team. I get that he's more of a stiff kind of character and he's easier to take a shot at, but in so many issues? I don't even think Logan has been referenced in Uncanny. *Shrugs* What's the deal? I understand that Jason Aaron is about the biggest Wolverine fanboy of all time, but I've found it annoying as it continues ALL THE TIME.

Am I wrong or just butthurt over my blue team being disbanded in a few issues?

I empathize completely. It's not clever writing at all, Jason Aaron is a Wolverine fanboy, and this event plus WatXM has proven to be a one-dimensional book that ignores any nuances and continuity. Everyone running back to Wolverine with their tails between their legs and acting as though they lost all brain cells forgetting why they sided with Cykes in the first place is PiS. Aside from Cykes himself not committing any actual evil acts but everyone claims that he's now corrupt is just convenient story-telling to further enforce a black-and-white story.

And I'm quite bother over UXM being cancelled myself.

I am prepared to drop this Marvel now BS and just stick with X-Factor and Gambit looks promising. Marvel promised the X-Men have as much stake in this event as the Avengers. The only X-Men heavily involved were Cyclops and Emma Frost. I won't count the two furballs who I consider more Avengers than X-Men, and I also won't count Hope since she is hanging out with the Avengers. Hate how Marvel vilified the X-Men and wants us to root for Earth's Mightiest Losers.

#4 Posted by lorex (958 posts) - - Show Bio
@madrid_san said:

@One_Eye: @One_Eye said:

@Rickbarry said:

It doesn't seem like you can get through an issue without something ripping Cyclops or his team. I get that he's more of a stiff kind of character and he's easier to take a shot at, but in so many issues? I don't even think Logan has been referenced in Uncanny. *Shrugs* What's the deal? I understand that Jason Aaron is about the biggest Wolverine fanboy of all time, but I've found it annoying as it continues ALL THE TIME.

Am I wrong or just butthurt over my blue team being disbanded in a few issues?

I empathize completely. It's not clever writing at all, Jason Aaron is a Wolverine fanboy, and this event plus WatXM has proven to be a one-dimensional book that ignores any nuances and continuity. Everyone running back to Wolverine with their tails between their legs and acting as though they lost all brain cells forgetting why they sided with Cykes in the first place is PiS. Aside from Cykes himself not committing any actual evil acts but everyone claims that he's now corrupt is just convenient story-telling to further enforce a black-and-white story.

And I'm quite bother over UXM being cancelled myself.

I am prepared to drop this Marvel now BS and just stick with X-Factor and Gambit looks promising. Marvel promised the X-Men have as much stake in this event as the Avengers. The only X-Men heavily involved were Cyclops and Emma Frost. I won't count the two furballs who I consider more Avengers than X-Men, and I also won't count Hope since she is hanging out with the Avengers. Hate how Marvel vilified the X-Men and wants us to root for Earth's Mightiest Losers.

I could not agree more. Marvel has not been very subtle in painting the X-Men as the bad guys in this struggle between superheroes. In Civil War Cap's side was the underdog but Iron Man's side was not vilified. Here there is not even a pretence, X-Men = bad and Avengers = good. Funny no one blamed Jean Grey when the Dark Phoenix killed millions, but it seems Cyclops is being thrown under the bus by Marvel as Evil and Corupt. It seems to me that there is an underlieing agenda here. Since Marvel does not have the movie rights to the X-Men and movies are a hugh part of their business now, its not really surprising that Marvel's editorial decisions are leaning heavily toward the Avengers here. For the next few years Marvel is going to be all Avengers all the time as their priority. As for Jason Aaron it seems thst he is not just a fanboy but has a man crush on Wolverine who can seemingly do no wrong these days. All this means is that it is highly unlikely that the X-Men are going to get equal treatment in anything related to the Avengers and now with Uncanny Avengers more of the X-Men are being co-opted to further raise the profile of the Avengers. Its really sad to see the once flagship property of Marvel being treated this way and its members slowly being incorporated into the Avengers.
#5 Posted by slimlim (266 posts) - - Show Bio

Well... i guess we should've seen it coming. Cyclops did name his side the EXTINCTION team. I just didnt think it'll be so soon...

@lorex said:

Since Marvel does not have the movie rights to the X-Men and movies are a hugh part of their business now, its not really surprising that Marvel's editorial decisions are leaning heavily toward the Avengers here.

I was just thinking about that! Does anybody know if the X-Men do get incorporated into the Avengers, does this mean that Marvel is free to use any x-men/mutants in future films that havent appeared in the Fox X-franchise?

#6 Posted by danhimself (22626 posts) - - Show Bio

@One_Eye said:

@Rickbarry said:

It doesn't seem like you can get through an issue without something ripping Cyclops or his team. I get that he's more of a stiff kind of character and he's easier to take a shot at, but in so many issues? I don't even think Logan has been referenced in Uncanny. *Shrugs* What's the deal? I understand that Jason Aaron is about the biggest Wolverine fanboy of all time, but I've found it annoying as it continues ALL THE TIME.

Am I wrong or just butthurt over my blue team being disbanded in a few issues?

I empathize completely. It's not clever writing at all, Jason Aaron is a Wolverine fanboy, and this event plus WatXM has proven to be a one-dimensional book that ignores any nuances and continuity. Everyone running back to Wolverine with their tails between their legs and acting as though they lost all brain cells forgetting why they sided with Cykes in the first place is PiS. Aside from Cykes himself not committing any actual evil acts but everyone claims that he's now corrupt is just convenient story-telling to further enforce a black-and-white story.

And I'm quite bother over UXM being cancelled myself.

I don't think it has anything to do with Cyclops doing anything bad but with the other 4 doing what they've done the X-men who side with the Phoenix realized just how much the PF was corrupting the Phoenix Five and it's only a matter of time before Cyclops gives into it as well...I really don't see the writers painting the X-men as the bad guys as much as them showing just how much the Phoenix has corrupted them....the X-men only sided with them and fought the Avengers while they were doing good things but once they started to realize what was going on they jumped ship

WatXM is probably one of the best X-books in years

#7 Edited by Osian2 (455 posts) - - Show Bio

According to Wolverine it's Cyclops who holds a grudge.

I can only recall three times that the schism was mentioned in relation to Cyclops. Once in Astonishing where he got angry and destroyed the lockers of the x-men who left but then by the end of the story he rebuilt them and forgave them saying that they're all still x-men. The second time was in Tabula Rasa when Storm reminded him about Hank and Scott said "I don't enjoy the schism with the school. They were my friends. They meant everything to me." Finally there was that team-up with the Avengers just before AVX where he worked alongside Logan. Apparantly these are the actions of someone who holds a grudge.

Wolverine calls Scott crazy at every given opportunity and doesn't think twice about killing him. Its not just Logan though Beast bashes Cyke a lot aswell hell. Him and Logan have a dartboard with a picture of Cyclops on it.

#8 Edited by Rickbarry (1815 posts) - - Show Bio

@Osian2: @danhimself: Yup. Scott seems to remember the group that left fondly whereas everyone on the other coast kind of want to bash them around. It isn't exclusive to the whole P5 thing either. I recall after they quarantined/evicted Utopia Logan and company were furious that Scott would talk to them. It's just silly and today's WATX made it even more so. I found the entire Bobby/Logan scene at the end mildly retarded.

WATX was entertaining at first, but it's lost it's luster to me. It might be the AvX tie-in's or the fact that they're going to lose some of their best characters shortly. Kid Gladiator being gone is a rather huge hit and now only Broo remains.

#9 Posted by Osian2 (455 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rickbarry said:

@Osian2: @danhimself: Yup. Scott seems to remember the group that left fondly whereas everyone on the other coast kind of want to bash them around. It isn't exclusive to the whole P5 thing either. I recall after they quarantined/evicted Utopia Logan and company were furious that Scott would talk to them. It's just silly and today's WATX made it even more so. I found the entire Bobby/Logan scene at the end mildly retarded.

WATX was entertaining at first, but it's lost it's luster to me. It might be the AvX tie-in's or the fact that they're going to lose some of their best characters shortly. Kid Gladiator being gone is a rather huge hit and now only Broo remains.

It seems to me that some writers are making Wolverine "the" leader of the x-men at the expense of Cyclops. Especially WatX 15 where we had the O5 x-men with Rachel filling in for Jean and surprise surprise Wolverine taking Cyclops' place. Hell Cyclops in no longer the first x-man, that's Wolverine now! Beast has become a hypocrite because of this change.

Cyclops forms X-force, Beasts reaction: You're a monster and I'll never forgive you!

Wolverine CONTINUES x-force, Beasts reaction: I disapprove but hey I still like you

I can't really comment on whether you should drop WatX as I don't read it (too light-hearted) but Storm will be joining after AvX so you might still enjoy it.

#10 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@Osian2 said:

According to Wolverine it's Cyclops who holds a grudge.

I can only recall three times that the schism was mentioned in relation to Cyclops. Once in Astonishing where he got angry and destroyed the lockers of the x-men who left but then by the end of the story he rebuilt them and forgave them saying that they're all still x-men. The second time was in Tabula Rasa when Storm reminded him about Hank and Scott said "I don't enjoy the schism with the school. They were my friends. They meant everything to me." Finally there was that team-up with the Avengers just before AVX where he worked alongside Logan. Apparantly these are the actions of someone who holds a grudge.

Wolverine calls Scott crazy at every given opportunity and doesn't think twice about killing him. Its not just Logan though Beast bashes Cyke a lot aswell hell. Him and Logan have a dartboard with a picture of Cyclops on it.

Yeah, Scott is obviously upset over the Schism and has the maturity to admit and move past it to the point where he's tried to reason with Logan. Yeah, just re-reading these panels has shown how much of an absolute, butt-hurt loser that Logan really is and that Hank is just his friggin cabana boy who is just happy to have the 'good ol' days'back. It's as if anyone in the vicinity of Wolverine loses any sense of logic and just swears that he's always right.

#11 Edited by JohnnyGat (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

The only thing I like about WatX are the kids. Genesis, Broo, Idie, Kid's Omega and Gladiator. Non students though annoy me, Wolverine and Hank as already mentioned, how Kitty just tosses her entire relationship with Colossus with barely a moments hesitation. The res of the staff I only have nit picky criticisms though.

#12 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@Osian2 said:

@Rickbarry said:

@Osian2: @danhimself: Yup. Scott seems to remember the group that left fondly whereas everyone on the other coast kind of want to bash them around. It isn't exclusive to the whole P5 thing either. I recall after they quarantined/evicted Utopia Logan and company were furious that Scott would talk to them. It's just silly and today's WATX made it even more so. I found the entire Bobby/Logan scene at the end mildly retarded.

WATX was entertaining at first, but it's lost it's luster to me. It might be the AvX tie-in's or the fact that they're going to lose some of their best characters shortly. Kid Gladiator being gone is a rather huge hit and now only Broo remains.

It seems to me that some writers are making Wolverine "the" leader of the x-men at the expense of Cyclops. Especially WatX 15 where we had the O5 x-men with Rachel filling in for Jean and surprise surprise Wolverine taking Cyclops' place. Hell Cyclops in no longer the first x-man, that's Wolverine now! Beast has become a hypocrite because of this change.

Cyclops forms X-force, Beasts reaction: You're a monster and I'll never forgive you!

Wolverine CONTINUES x-force, Beasts reaction: I disapprove but hey I still like you

I can't really comment on whether you should drop WatX as I don't read it (too light-hearted) but Storm will be joining after AvX so you might still enjoy it.

I should have seen it coming given that horrible cartoon that came out years ago. Everyone in the latest WatXM were so quick to disregard their convictions and didn't even try to bring up an argument that continuing to fight Scott might not be a good idea. Rachel attempted to talk to Logan only briefly,however, there was next to no exposition on anything.

As for WatXM, it just serves as another ego stroke/fanboy trip for Wolverine fans and Jason Aaron alike and I'm that I haven't invested a single penny into the book.

Scott is only the leader of the X-Men in name only and from what I understand UXM was selling better than WatXM. It's like Marvel doesn't want to have an X-title were Logan isn't featured in some capacity. Heh, Marvel is even going as far to retcon Professor X as receiving inspiration for the X-Men from Wolverine...I mean seriously...? The truth is that Marvel is doing a reboot but that they simply aren't branding Marvel NOW! as such.

#13 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5947 posts) - - Show Bio

I wonder how long WaXTM is going to last after this...

#14 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7301 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog said:

I wonder how long WaXTM is going to last after this...

There's been stuff written/drawn up to #25, conidering it's a flagship title, i don't see it going anywhere, anytime soon.

#15 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5947 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

@Rabbitearsblog said:

I wonder how long WaXTM is going to last after this...

There's been stuff written/drawn up to #25, conidering it's a flagship title, i don't see it going anywhere, anytime soon.

Oh.

#16 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

The only way they could push the BS storylines that are Schism and AvX was to take normally well respected and intelligent characters and make them complete tools. Based on how he has been written Cyclops deserves all the bashing he has received, his decision making has been terrible and borderline evil at points (Even before the Phoenix possession). That said the writers take on Scott for most of the 2000's is nothing more than a joke, the reasons he rose to power and the reasons he will eventually fall are all unjustified crap.

At this point I really am not sure if the current crop of X-writers have ever read any issue of the series before their own run, characterization has been butchered so badly I can barely comprehend it. Pushing Wolverine as the moral compass and leadership of the X-Men over well, just about anyone else who has ever wore an X kills any credibility to the whole run.

#17 Posted by Rickbarry (1815 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog: It's not going anywhere. They're forming the entire X-universe around Logan and the school by cancelling Uncanny, which beat it in sales every time, just to make sure the point is driven home.

#18 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

This is why I never read this book

#19 Posted by Jk-Prodigy (121 posts) - - Show Bio
@One_Eye said:

@Osian2 said:

@Rickbarry said:

@Osian2: @danhimself: Yup. Scott seems to remember the group that left fondly whereas everyone on the other coast kind of want to bash them around. It isn't exclusive to the whole P5 thing either. I recall after they quarantined/evicted Utopia Logan and company were furious that Scott would talk to them. It's just silly and today's WATX made it even more so. I found the entire Bobby/Logan scene at the end mildly retarded.

WATX was entertaining at first, but it's lost it's luster to me. It might be the AvX tie-in's or the fact that they're going to lose some of their best characters shortly. Kid Gladiator being gone is a rather huge hit and now only Broo remains.

It seems to me that some writers are making Wolverine "the" leader of the x-men at the expense of Cyclops. Especially WatX 15 where we had the O5 x-men with Rachel filling in for Jean and surprise surprise Wolverine taking Cyclops' place. Hell Cyclops in no longer the first x-man, that's Wolverine now! Beast has become a hypocrite because of this change.

Cyclops forms X-force, Beasts reaction: You're a monster and I'll never forgive you!

Wolverine CONTINUES x-force, Beasts reaction: I disapprove but hey I still like you

I can't really comment on whether you should drop WatX as I don't read it (too light-hearted) but Storm will be joining after AvX so you might still enjoy it.

I should have seen it coming given that horrible cartoon that came out years ago. Everyone in the latest WatXM were so quick to disregard their convictions and didn't even try to bring up an argument that continuing to fight Scott might not be a good idea. Rachel attempted to talk to Logan only briefly,however, there was next to no exposition on anything.

As for WatXM, it just serves as another ego stroke/fanboy trip for Wolverine fans and Jason Aaron alike and I'm that I haven't invested a single penny into the book.

Scott is only the leader of the X-Men in name only and from what I understand UXM was selling better than WatXM. It's like Marvel doesn't want to have an X-title were Logan isn't featured in some capacity. Heh, Marvel is even going as far to retcon Professor X as receiving inspiration for the X-Men from Wolverine...I mean seriously...? The truth is that Marvel is doing a reboot but that they simply aren't branding Marvel NOW! as such.

 Aaron calling him the new mutant leader now. Plus he's trying to say this is how they truly were.

  

 With alliances shifting, Time_to_Zap wonders how Wolvie will respond:

1) How personally is Logan taking the fact that taking several of his staff members fought on the "X" side of things? I know Iceman expressed a desire that he could return after the war, but is that something Logan would be okay with? Or would he hold a grudge?

That very question is answered in issue #15, and it speaks to Logan's entire philosophy as a newfound mutant leader. 

2) Judging from the way Colossus lost his temper on Kitty's date, how do you view the Phoenix 5? Do you write them as gods?

They're not gods, no. They're the same characters we've always known, but now possessed with this other entity that has the mind and powers of a god. A not-always-particularly-benevolent god.

#20 Edited by allthatsgeek (127 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jk-Prodigy: He said as a newfound, not the newfound..

@Osian2: That second scan you posted "I thought we both hate Cyclops together!" - That is NOT something Wolverine would say, that's sounds like a line outta Spider-man. Also, according to my ex, I'm the one that screwed up, but I'm not the whore. ;) Just saying guilt can be a matter of perspective, and Logan has had a adamantium stick up his butt for some time now.

#21 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rickbarry: butthurt

#22 Posted by Rickbarry (1815 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker: You are correct.

#23 Posted by TheCowman (461 posts) - - Show Bio

@lorex said:

In Civil War Cap's side was the underdog but Iron Man's side was not vilified.

Well, to be fair, it kinda depended on which comic you were reading. In some series, they WERE vilified quite a bit.

#24 Posted by slimlim (266 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimlim said:

Indeed.

#26 Posted by allthatsgeek (127 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimlim said:

I would buy that on a t-shirt.

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