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    X-Men

    Team » X-Men appears in 13416 issues.

    The X-Men are a superhero team of mutants founded by Professor Charles Xavier. They are dedicated to helping fellow mutants and sworn to protect a world that fears and hates them.

    UXM Powers Getting Further Altered?

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    god_spawn

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    #1 god_spawn  Moderator

    A couple weeks ago, we finally got the cover and solicitation for Uncanny X-Men 27.

    No Caption Provided

    • Turns out being possessed by one of the most powerful entities in the universe can really mess with a guy’s superpowers

    • Life isn’t always a straight line, sometimes there are curves in the road.

    • But if there’s anyone who would bend over backwards to reteach himself how to use them, it’s Scott Summers.

    The cover being a simple one with Cyclops bending his blasts under a hummingbird and the solicit itself is a big play on words. One, this answers the question if their powers were fixed by Beast shutting off the nanotech sentinels, which is a no. In turn, it also raises the questions of how will their powers further be altered and will this solicit hold true or is it just that, a play on words with a teasing cover? Bendis himself has a figurative way he solicits things, like in issue 18 with who was holding a gun to Scott's head and it was just a metaphor. But in the future, it has been confirmed that Emma Frost will being through "physical and mental" changes. So perhaps the broken powers have been in a cocoon like state, and they are still evolving? I for one have no problem with a training issue, but I am quite curious as to what will further happen. Will the "straight lines and curves" Bendis is talking about be Scott controlling literal bends and curves in his blasts or just him working so hard that he finally has complete control over the altered new blasts he has had for the last year and a half? And what changes do you think Emma will have, or Magik, or possibly Magneto upon the latest twist in his current solo?

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    AgeofHurricane

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    Bendis has been making it out as if Emma would be undergoing an invariable myriad of changes for almost a couple of years now (as in, hitherto Uncanny's actual release and during promotional interviews). It's old and it's probably never gonna happen. Lol.

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    Koays

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    From what we saw of the 100 anniversary I'm pretty Confident that Cyke will be bending beams.

    I think Emma will probably be getting a power update similar to the time she spread her diamond form...though I really wish she wasn't since "one of the world's strongest telepaths" was something she owned better then anyone else with the title.

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    HAWK2916

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    #4  Edited By HAWK2916

    Ho-hum... really tired of this foolishness

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    zdub327

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    I don't think Magyk or Magneto need upgrades. It would be nice to see Scott finally learn to control his powers though, from a psychological perspective. I still remember how in Whedon's run we learned that Scott growing up was afraid of his own powers, and so he actively chose not to learn to control them. So it would be nice to see Scott finally overcome that hurdle, and master his powers! The whole curved beams thing is cool - I'm excited to see where it leads.

    I've really enjoyed Bendis' X-Men run, but I don't think he's done a very good job writing Emma Frost. Morrison and Whedon did a much nicer job. I'm tired of seeing Emma portrayed as passive. So it would be cool if (for starters) she could get her telepathy back, but it might also be cool for her to develop another, more offensive power! She's really portrayed as kind of useless in fighting scenes, so it'd be nice if she developed a third, more aggressive mutation. Maybe something elemental, that still has to do with diamonds?

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    oldnightcrawler

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    #6  Edited By oldnightcrawler

    @koays said:

    I think Emma will probably be getting a power update similar to the time she spread her diamond form...though I really wish she wasn't since "one of the world's strongest telepaths" was something she owned better then anyone else with the title.

    totally agree. Her personality fit her power-set so much better than most telepaths. It seems like a lot of writers don't consider how having that much more perception of the world would effect a character; but with Emma her personality and superior attitude generally made it quite evident (and entertaining).

    @zdub327 said:

    I've really enjoyed Bendis' X-Men run, but I don't think he's done a very good job writing Emma Frost. Morrison and Whedon did a much nicer job. I'm tired of seeing Emma portrayed as passive. So it would be cool if (for starters) she could get her telepathy back, but it might also be cool for her to develop another, more offensive power! She's really portrayed as kind of useless in fighting scenes, so it'd be nice if she developed a third, more aggressive mutation. Maybe something elemental, that still has to do with diamonds?

    like I say, Emma's telepathy is a pretty integral part of what I like about her character, but given how much she was used to relying on it, it does make sense that she would be feeling more vulnerable, and behaving more passively. In that way, it doesn't seem so much like Bendis has done a bad job writing her as she simply hasn't been as much of a central character, which would make sense with how she may not feel she has as much to contribute, or is more likely to second guess herself, despite her sparse bursts of signature bravado.

    Personally, power upgrades rarely interest me that much compared to power downgrades. Upgrades seem to happen when writers or fans find a character too dull, as a way to generate renewed interest in an old character, but usually they don't actually make the character themselves that much more interesting (though, of course there are exceptions). Power downgrades, on the other hand, however they happen, generally tend to force characters to search their own inner strength, become more resourceful, and therefore grow into more interesting characters.

    at any rate, I do hope that if Emma is getting a new power it will at least involve some kind of mental power, even if it's some kind of specialized or derivative form of telepathy, rather than a more physical one. The X-men have lots of physical bruisers, and hardly any non-combatant members.

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    AwesomePerson

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    I hope Emma gets something like Photographic reflexes, like Taskmaster, because since she's lost her telepathy, she can still be a very useful asset to the UXM team...

    Besides, there aren't many hand to hand combat experts in the X-Universe!!!!

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    HAWK2916

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    @awesomeperson: That would be a cool power for her to have. That or when she evades someone's mind she automatically has access to there powers for a time or something. I would take those on top of the telepathy and diamond form.

    @oldnightcrawler: If only writers put as much thought into it as you have. I doubt he warrants that much credit.

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    HAWK2916

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    I would also like to see someone bring back Bedlam's powers. It might be cool if Emma had those.

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    darthphoenix

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    i think rachel and jean already has the photographic memory, i think its called eidetic. I wish emma could use her telepathy while she's in diamond form. it would be good for her to be in hand to hand battle using her tp. she'd be the new psylocke. Psylocke has been busy with her tk toys.

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    deactivated-097092725

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    With Scott, I do hope his powers evolve to much like that solicit image. I'm not going to push having him be able to control them without the ruby quartz, though.

    Magneto can't get back to being as powerful as he was because it would really screw up what's been going on in his on-going. A gradually improving Magneto should start making an appearance by now, so that would be a welcome change and could make things even more interesting with his side agenda. Keeping it on the down low would be his style as well.

    Magik is okay, considering all the work she's done (still doing?) with Doctor Strange in the past. Just more of the same with her incredible power set.

    As for Emma, that's a whole 'nother thing. What would have been awesome, is seeing her work on being more physical in hand to hand combat to compensate the loss of her powers (or control of them). She's already good at it, but I mean, really get her to a place where her and Psylocke could have a decent bout. Maybe even to do with her diamond form, like develop an extended sword like in fencing or something like that. Don't get me wrong, I like the way she can turn a situation on its ear with her expert ability to telepathically turn things in her favour. That finesse is unmatched, in my opinion, and should be front and centre of the character forever. I just feel she's been playing supervisor to the Cuckoos for long enough. Having Emma not just hold her own defensivley, but actually cause some damage in an offensive, tangible way would be so cool. Sharp, rapier wit is fun to read, but having it be accompanied with an actual, physical ability? I would be ecstatic.

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    Koays

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    I also think psychometry would be an interesting power for Emma just because I've always felt like Emma was a bit above brawling(has been forever) and it would be an interesting expansion of her powers from focus on minds to the environment.

    Also gonna agree with @oldnightcrawler when it comes to Emmaus use....I don't think it's fair to say Bendis is writing her badly when he hasn't used her one way or another, and what we have seen is a much quieter character who admits to being lost without her powers. ..which is in line with someone who (like Magneto) considered her powers to be a major part of her identity.

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    Veitha

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    I agree with @koays and @oldnightcrawler about Emma. She's the telepath. Diamond Form is a very cool power, but I liked it more when she had to use it as an extreme form of defense, while mosty relying on her TP. Anyway if she won't get her telepathy back, I hope that at least she'll get a diamond form upgrade. Like being able to manipulate her diamond body. Diamond sharp razors or hard maces would be cool. Even being able to disintegrate her own body and turn into diamond dust would be cool, and it would still be connected to the "finesse" concept.

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    Eeshaan1685

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    @veitha said:

    I agree with @koays and @oldnightcrawler about Emma. She's the telepath. Diamond Form is a very cool power, but I liked it more when she had to use it as an extreme form of defense, while mosty relying on her TP. Anyway if she won't get her telepathy back, I hope that at least she'll get a diamond form upgrade. Like being able to manipulate her diamond body. Diamond sharp razors or hard maces would be cool. Even being able to disintegrate her own body and turn into diamond dust would be cool, and it would still be connected to the "finesse" concept.

    No, she's not THE telepath. Xavier, Jean and now Rachel have that title. Their telepathic abilities are infinitely stronger than Emma's.

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    oldnightcrawler

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    @koays said:

    I also think psychometry would be an interesting power for Emma just because I've always felt like Emma was a bit above brawling(has been forever) and it would be an interesting expansion of her powers from focus on minds to the environment.

    Exactly.

    And I think psychometry sounds cool.. that's sort of like what like what Longshot does, yeah? (is that how Karnak's powers work too?) There's probably lots of cool ways to use that in a story.. and since there really already are 3 telepaths on the team, this could be a way to bring her perspective back above everyone else's.

    @veitha said:

    I agree with @koays and @oldnightcrawler about Emma. She's the telepath. Diamond Form is a very cool power, but I liked it more when she had to use it as an extreme form of defense, while mosty relying on her TP. Anyway if she won't get her telepathy back, I hope that at least she'll get a diamond form upgrade. Like being able to manipulate her diamond body. Diamond sharp razors or hard maces would be cool. Even being able to disintegrate her own body and turn into diamond dust would be cool, and it would still be connected to the "finesse" concept.

    me too, and it really fit her personality. Something I really like about her diamond powers was how it made her one of the only telepaths that could completely shut out the effects of telepathy (which kind of makes her that much more the telepath). Even if she doesn't get her telepathy back anytime soon, I hope at least this aspect of her control of telepathy remains.

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    oldnightcrawler

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    @veitha said:

    I agree with @koays and @oldnightcrawler about Emma. She's the telepath. Diamond Form is a very cool power, but I liked it more when she had to use it as an extreme form of defense, while mosty relying on her TP. Anyway if she won't get her telepathy back, I hope that at least she'll get a diamond form upgrade. Like being able to manipulate her diamond body. Diamond sharp razors or hard maces would be cool. Even being able to disintegrate her own body and turn into diamond dust would be cool, and it would still be connected to the "finesse" concept.

    No, she's not THE telepath. Xavier, Jean and now Rachel have that title. Their telepathic abilities are infinitely stronger than Emma's.

    pfft.. so?

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    Koays

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    @koays said:

    I also think psychometry would be an interesting power for Emma just because I've always felt like Emma was a bit above brawling(has been forever) and it would be an interesting expansion of her powers from focus on minds to the environment.

    Exactly.

    And I think psychometry sounds cool.. that's sort of like what like what Longshot does, yeah? (is that how Karnak's powers work too?) There's probably lots of cool ways to use that in a story.. and since there really already are 3 telepaths on the team, this could be a way to bring her perspective back above everyone else's.

    Yea sorta like Longshot's power, though maybe a different spin on it just to differentiate them...though its not like its a very common ability so it may not matter. Karnak i think has something similar though i believe it's just offensive.

    Still Emma doesn't have much to do so i agree a useful powerset that requires us to see her perspective of things would make her stand out more, and a lot of offensive powers are just for show so if she gets...idk "diamond blast" it wouldn't be as impactful or stand out as much.


    @veitha said:

    I agree with @koays and @oldnightcrawler about Emma. She's the telepath. Diamond Form is a very cool power, but I liked it more when she had to use it as an extreme form of defense, while mosty relying on her TP. Anyway if she won't get her telepathy back, I hope that at least she'll get a diamond form upgrade. Like being able to manipulate her diamond body. Diamond sharp razors or hard maces would be cool. Even being able to disintegrate her own body and turn into diamond dust would be cool, and it would still be connected to the "finesse" concept.

    No, she's not THE telepath. Xavier, Jean and now Rachel have that title. Their telepathic abilities are infinitely stronger than Emma's.

    Yea but have any of them identified as being a Telepath as much as Emma? You take away telepathy from any of them and they still have characters, from Emma she loses alot of hers

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    oldnightcrawler

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    @koays said:

    Yea sorta like Longshot's power, though maybe a different spin on it just to differentiate them...though its not like its a very common ability so it may not matter. Karnak i think has something similar though i believe it's just offensive.

    Still Emma doesn't have much to do so i agree a useful powerset that requires us to see her perspective of things would make her stand out more, and a lot of offensive powers are just for show so if she gets...idk "diamond blast" it wouldn't be as impactful or stand out as much.

    yeah. The psychometry thing in itself is just an interesting idea for her, for sure. I just meant that if the reason for her not to have her telepathy was to have to learn to be more offensive, her using said telemetry in a way more similar to Karnak would still be more interesting and suit her personality better (since seeing the flaws in others has always been part of her offensive) than a lot of other offensive abilities.

    @koays said:

    @oldnightcrawler said:

    @koays said:

    I also think psychometry would be an interesting power for Emma just because I've always felt like Emma was a bit above brawling(has been forever) and it would be an interesting expansion of her powers from focus on minds to the environment.

    Exactly.

    And I think psychometry sounds cool.. that's sort of like what like what Longshot does, yeah? (is that how Karnak's powers work too?) There's probably lots of cool ways to use that in a story.. and since there really already are 3 telepaths on the team, this could be a way to bring her perspective back above everyone else's.

    Yea sorta like Longshot's power, though maybe a different spin on it just to differentiate them...though its not like its a very common ability so it may not matter. Karnak i think has something similar though i believe it's just offensive.

    Still Emma doesn't have much to do so i agree a useful powerset that requires us to see her perspective of things would make her stand out more, and a lot of offensive powers are just for show so if she gets...idk "diamond blast" it wouldn't be as impactful or stand out as much.

    @avenger85 said:

    No, she's not THE telepath. Xavier, Jean and now Rachel have that title. Their telepathic abilities are infinitely stronger than Emma's.

    Yea but have any of them identified as being a Telepath as much as Emma? You take away telepathy from any of them and they still have characters, from Emma she loses alot of hers

    Jean was in more than enough stories without her telepathy for me to not think of her as essentially tied to that power. She didn't have it originally or when she came back in '86, so much of her character developed without her having it that even when she had it, she seemed to only use it wen the story called for it. Emma, conversely, just seemed to be always using it.

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    Koays

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    @oldnightcrawler: True and i could see her taking such an ability to that level as well, just not often. I just remember the time she helped Colossus beat down on a bunch of guys when he was depressed about Kitty and you could tell she was doing it for him because it was so out of character for her to slug it out like she did. I just prefer her to be the one who snarks at Wolverine for brawling because she's above it all, though i suppose with psychometry she still wouldn't be slugging it out so much as one shoting people in critical areas. And combined with her diamond form it does work with her character as her powers would be her perfect self (diamond form) and your deepest weakness (Psychometry).....i think i just talked myself into your idea lol


    @koays said:
    @avenger85 said:

    No, she's not THE telepath. Xavier, Jean and now Rachel have that title. Their telepathic abilities are infinitely stronger than Emma's.

    Yea but have any of them identified as being a Telepath as much as Emma? You take away telepathy from any of them and they still have characters, from Emma she loses alot of hers

    Jean was in more than enough stories without her telepathy for me to not think of her as essentially tied to that power. She didn't have it originally or when she came back in '86, so much of her character developed without her having it that even when she had it, she seemed to only use it wen the story called for it. Emma, conversely, just seemed to be always using it.

    The way i see it
    Xavier without telepathy = mentor, mutant visionary, father figure.
    Jean without telepathy = heart of the team, crazy strong telekinetic,
    Rachel without tp = crazy strong telekinetic, and very much unchanged
    Emma without Telepathy = Snarky, arrogant, mutant supremacist without any of the gifts that made her that way in the first place

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    oldnightcrawler

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    #20  Edited By oldnightcrawler

    @koays:

    "Emma without Telepathy = Snarky, arrogant, mutant supremacist without any of the gifts that made her that way in the first place"

    Emma without telepathy seems to be reverting back to a victim-like mentality, which makes sense. Her power wasn't just what made her arrogant, it's what made her a survivor.

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    Koays

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    @koays:

    "Emma without Telepathy = Snarky, arrogant, mutant supremacist without any of the gifts that made her that way in the first place"

    Emma without telepathy seems to be reverting back to a victim-like mentality, which makes sense. Her power wasn't just what made her arrogant, it's what made her a survivor.

    I can get that, she seemed lost both in her confrontation with Cyclops and with the Cuckoo's the 1st time around. But their are still moments like when she recruited Hijack, or when they were talking about the Inhumans in the crossover that make her seem like she's got some fight left in the tank but nothing to do it with.

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    oldnightcrawler

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    @koays: well, I mean she would still have the same personality, sensibility, the same values and ideas about things.

    She's probably just so used to using her telepathy whenever she wants that it would be like someone losing their sight or their hearing; that happens to people and they're still the same people. She's vulnerable now, like when she was a victim, but she's still just as clever, she's still a survivor.

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    HAWK2916

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    @koays: @oldnightcrawler: Didnt Emma's sister Adrienne have psychometry as a power? If so it could be easily explained that Emma absorbed this power when she killed her sister and its been dormant all these years

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    Koays

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    @hawk2916 said:

    @koays: @oldnightcrawler: Didnt Emma's sister Adrienne have psychometry as a power? If so it could be easily explained that Emma absorbed this power when she killed her sister and its been dormant all these years

    Wow you know its been so long since i read Gen X i'd forgotten about that. That'd be a cool way to tell an Emma story, or even to have it be a latent genetic thing that explains how the Frost got their family fortune. Curious though whether Adrienne had any offensive uses of her powers?

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    HAWK2916

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    @koays: hmmm... Im not sure about the offensive side of her powers. Just curious how would psychometry be used offensively? Would it be like... making contact with a person and instantly knowing their weaknesses?

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    oldnightcrawler

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    @koays said:

    @hawk2916 said:

    @koays: @oldnightcrawler: Didnt Emma's sister Adrienne have psychometry as a power? If so it could be easily explained that Emma absorbed this power when she killed her sister and its been dormant all these years

    Wow you know its been so long since i read Gen X i'd forgotten about that. That'd be a cool way to tell an Emma story, or even to have it be a latent genetic thing that explains how the Frost got their family fortune. Curious though whether Adrienne had any offensive uses of her powers?

    oh, that does kind of work, doesn't it?

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    Koays

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    @hawk2916: That's sorta what Oldnightcrawler said with Karnak, just being able to instantly know the weakest point on someone, or even past injuries and potentially how their body is conditioned.

    @oldnightcrawler: Also it could add a dimension to the relationship with the Cuckoo's with them one day getting similar powers. Though i'd prefer if she just used her powers to find out something new about the Frost and included the Cuckoo's in the discovery.

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    oldnightcrawler

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    @koays: yeah, I guess. I more like how it makes her distinct from the Cuckoos, myself..

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    Koays

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    @oldnightcrawler: Personal preference i guess. I just feel like they went to the school because of Emma and haven't had much interactions since then. Could be subject for character growth for all.

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    oldnightcrawler

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    @koays said:

    @oldnightcrawler: Personal preference i guess. I just feel like they went to the school because of Emma and haven't had much interactions since then. Could be subject for character growth for all.

    oh, I'm all for seeing her interact more with them and vice versa, I just think anything that can be done to make them distinct from each other would be mutually beneficial.

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    PhoenixoftheTides

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    @koays said:

    I think Emma will probably be getting a power update similar to the time she spread her diamond form...though I really wish she wasn't since "one of the world's strongest telepaths" was something she owned better then anyone else with the title.

    totally agree. Her personality fit her power-set so much better than most telepaths. It seems like a lot of writers don't consider how having that much more perception of the world would effect a character; but with Emma her personality and superior attitude generally made it quite evident (and entertaining).

    I agree. I still think her diamond skin evolution damaged the character concept. I still think it was just done for some generic "she's rich; she should like diamonds; now she can turn into one"-type of idea, and it gave something for artists and colorists to work with, but I tend to think she was one of the better telepaths, like Jean and Charles, in that she didn't need ninja swords, guns, or body armor to feel effective. It's just odd that Morrison, who was quite creative with telepathy, would take one of the foremost telepaths and give her a skill that neutralized her more powerful abilities for minimal benefits. And she did some of the nastiest things with telepathy that more moral telepaths wouldn't do unless there were no other options.

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    oldnightcrawler

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    I agree. I still think her diamond skin evolution damaged the character concept. I still think it was just done for some generic "she's rich; she should like diamonds; now she can turn into one"-type of idea, and it gave something for artists and colorists to work with, but I tend to think she was one of the better telepaths, like Jean and Charles, in that she didn't need ninja swords, guns, or body armor to feel effective. It's just odd that Morrison, who was quite creative with telepathy,

    1. would take one of the foremost telepaths and give her a skill that neutralized her more powerful abilities for minimal benefits.
    2. And she did some of the nastiest things with telepathy that more moral telepaths wouldn't do unless there were no other options.

    1. I actually liked it because it gave her a defense against telepathy that other telepaths didn't have, making her more distinct when she was in a book with eh.. 7 or 8 other telepathic characters? at least two of which (Jean, Xavier..Cassandra Nova?) were more powerful than her, yet she could be immune to either of them, like a fail-safe.

    2. that's part of what made her interesting, because she stretched the ways telepathy could be incredibly creative depending on who was using it.. like a Green Lantern ring or something, it's only limited by the imagination.

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    PhoenixoftheTides

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    1. I actually liked it because it gave her a defense against telepathy that other telepaths didn't have, making her more distinct when she was in a book with eh.. 7 or 8 other telepathic characters? at least two of which (Jean, Xavier..Cassandra Nova?) were more powerful than her, yet she could be immune to either of them, like a fail-safe.

    I think my biggest issue with it, just to be fair (since I acknowledge that it offers her a defense), is that she's been able to stand against more powerful telepaths using her skill alone. She demonstrated this with Rachel, and I think her survivor mentality gave her character more depth than standard enemies. Firing off a psi-bolt to trigger explosions was a good back-up plan that enabled her to survive fighting Jean/Phoenix - it shows how cunning her character was when thinking ahead. Now, the diamond form serves as a back-up that can enable lazy writing. I think Morrison put her in the British Betsy category (i.e. "needing armor because all she has are mental powers"), but I don't think Emma has ever really been shown as vulnerable or lacking in cunning. I think making characters invulnerable or immune to other characters' powers is lazier than showing how a character can out-think a stronger opponent. I did like how she was able to scramble Charles' mental probes in "First Class" - she showed that ability in the "Phoenix Saga", too, so it illustrated that she was already more than capable of neutralizing more powerful telepaths.

    I actually think she had a nice, solid character concept as a telepath who used her abilities in a rational way to get what she wanted, and as a result, it was her thoughts and strategies that were major parts of her characterization. In my mind, as a fan of her character from Phoenix Saga through Generation X through New X-Men through Astonishing X-Men, this solid concept has been diluted by adding diamond form/removing telepathy, and etc. But I generally do think lazier writing results in the idea that you need to remove a character's traits to "get at the more interesting parts of a character" - it wasn't Storm's loss of her powers that was interesting, for example...it was her dealing with leadership when she couldn't rely on her powers to help the team win, while removing Jean's telepathy or telekinesis never really revealed anything new beyond making her feel momentarily disadvantaged (or worse, like an illegitimate version of the character). (Yay: excuse to post Emma Frost images).

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    Koays

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    I actually think she had a nice, solid character concept as a telepath who used her abilities in a rational way to get what she wanted, and as a result, it was her thoughts and strategies that were major parts of her characterization. In my mind, as a fan of her character from Phoenix Saga through Generation X through New X-Men through Astonishing X-Men, this solid concept has been diluted by adding diamond form/removing telepathy, and etc. But I generally do think lazier writing results in the idea that you need to remove a character's traits to "get at the more interesting parts of a character" - it wasn't Storm's loss of her powers that was interesting, for example...it was her dealing with leadership when she couldn't rely on her powers to help the team win, while removing Jean's telepathy or telekinesis never really revealed anything new beyond making her feel momentarily disadvantaged (or worse, like an illegitimate version of the character). (Yay: excuse to post Emma Frost images).

    I don't agree with this statement, but i can agree with what your conveying about character's losing powersets so they have something to overcome. With some characters they are better off without certain powersets or power levels (Cable for instance), but alot of other times it comes off as another writing trope that they insert into different characters to reignite interest.

    Still i have to point out that with her Diamond form i think Emma was much more justified as a frontline team member since i can't recall many other (strictly) telepaths being used in the field. Emma was better protected then most of her teammates and so whenever she might be delegated to "human walkie-talkie" by a story it's justified why she's there with them instead of fulfilling that role from their base.

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    Raffels

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    Cyclops if he could control the Void would be bada$$

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    Veitha

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    @koays said:
    @oldnightcrawler said:
    @koays said:
    @avenger85 said:

    No, she's not THE telepath. Xavier, Jean and now Rachel have that title. Their telepathic abilities are infinitely stronger than Emma's.

    Yea but have any of them identified as being a Telepath as much as Emma? You take away telepathy from any of them and they still have characters, from Emma she loses alot of hers

    Jean was in more than enough stories without her telepathy for me to not think of her as essentially tied to that power. She didn't have it originally or when she came back in '86, so much of her character developed without her having it that even when she had it, she seemed to only use it wen the story called for it. Emma, conversely, just seemed to be always using it.

    The way i see it

    Xavier without telepathy = mentor, mutant visionary, father figure.

    Jean without telepathy = heart of the team, crazy strong telekinetic,

    Rachel without tp = crazy strong telekinetic, and very much unchanged

    Emma without Telepathy = Snarky, arrogant, mutant supremacist without any of the gifts that made her that way in the first place

    exactly what I meant.

    And as for Rachel Grey, well she is a joke as a telepath nowadays. She's done nothing that puts her above Emma Frost.

    Psycometry would be so cool for Emma! They could even expand this power giving her some kind of tactile telepathy or something like this. And Adrienne had this power, so it'd be very cool.

    Don't you guys feel the need of a new Generation X book with Emma and the new Xavier School students? I'd love something like that.

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    Koays

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    #37  Edited By Koays
    @veitha said:

    exactly what I meant.

    And as for Rachel Grey, well she is a joke as a telepath nowadays. She's done nothing that puts her above Emma Frost.

    Psycometry would be so cool for Emma! They could even expand this power giving her some kind of tactile telepathy or something like this. And Adrienne had this power, so it'd be very cool.

    Don't you guys feel the need of a new Generation X book with Emma and the new Xavier School students? I'd love something like that.

    I've been behind this idea for a long time. Sort of like how the X-Terminators spun out of the original X-Factor book(Which was very similar in concept too the current Uncanny). My only thing is that with Magneto coming and going, the adult cast of the Uncanny book would be lacking since it features the kids so heavily. And idk if it could stand on its own without them.

    And in Rachel's defense she did do this recently....so if nothing else she's got impressive range.

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    HAWK2916

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    I know Bendis isnt using her that much but isnt somewhat of an altered power for her to be able to use other telepaths as a like satellites or batteries now.

    Also Cyclops having control of the void would be awesome

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    oldnightcrawler

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    I think my biggest issue with it, just to be fair (since I acknowledge that it offers her a defense), is that she's been able to stand against more powerful telepaths using her skill alone. She demonstrated this with Rachel, and I think her survivor mentality gave her character more depth than standard enemies. Firing off a psi-bolt to trigger explosions was a good back-up plan that enabled her to survive fighting Jean/Phoenix - it shows how cunning her character was when thinking ahead. Now, the diamond form serves as a back-up that can enable lazy writing. I think Morrison put her in the British Betsy category (i.e. "needing armor because all she has are mental powers"), but I don't think Emma has ever really been shown as vulnerable or lacking in cunning. I think making characters invulnerable or immune to other characters' powers is lazier than showing how a character can out-think a stronger opponent. I did like how she was able to scramble Charles' mental probes in "First Class" - she showed that ability in the "Phoenix Saga", too, so it illustrated that she was already more than capable of neutralizing more powerful telepaths.

    I actually agree with all of these points. But I still like her diamond form for giving her a power-set that other telepathic characters didn't have. While I think you're right that it wasn't something she ever needed to be interesting or effective, it was still something that made her distinct.

    But I generally do think lazier writing results in the idea that you need to remove a character's traits to "get at the more interesting parts of a character" - it wasn't Storm's loss of her powers that was interesting, for example...it was her dealing with leadership when she couldn't rely on her powers to help the team win,

    so.. then it was still a result of her losing her powers, wasn't it?

    I dunno, maybe you're right, but virtually every time a character loses their powers, or gets some kind of power downgrade, they end up becoming more interesting to me (Storm, Nightcrawler, Richter, Moonstar, Jubilee, etc) because they have to develop skills outside of their comfort zone..

    ...and, while there are a few power upgrades that have actually been pretty interesting (most notably Beast and Rogue, both of whom felt like they lost part of their humanity from it, although that is sort of the trope with power upgrades), most power upgrades seem superfluous and generally only add one more one-dimensional quality to their characters (Archangel, Psylocke, Gambit, Colossus, and, yeah, in a way Emma), which in itself seems like lazier writing to me.

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    @veitha said:

    And as for Rachel Grey, well she is a joke as a telepath nowadays. She's done nothing that puts her above Emma Frost.

    While I do agree that Emma's the superior telepath in terms of skill (even Rachel has admitted as much)..

    ..it is worth noting that Rachel was effectively able to control the Phoenix Force, while Emma lost control of herself before she even had half of it..

    Don't you guys feel the need of a new Generation X book with Emma and the new Xavier School students? I'd love something like that.

    you mean like Uncanny X-Men? yeah, I really like that book. (They even got the original and best Generation X artist :P)

    could use more Emma though..

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    PhoenixoftheTides

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    it wasn't Storm's loss of her powers that was interesting, for example...it was her dealing with leadership when she couldn't rely on her powers to help the team win,

    so.. then it was still a result of her losing her powers, wasn't it?

    No; I would say that she was dealing with leadership issues such as gaining the respect of her team and motivating them to follow her lead...which was already addressed in "Days of Future Past" when she had to confront Wolverine, in prior and future stories when she had to confront Cyclops & Callisto, and when she was dealing with the responsibility of leadership. IMHO, it wasn't the loss of her powers that was the challenge and I think it was redundant, story-wise, and partially why Claremont still ended up playing up her combat prowess and other abilities. The loss of her powers gave her angst where there used to be serenity and was another challenge for her to confront because she felt more vulnerable than before.

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    god_spawn

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    #42 god_spawn  Moderator
    @hawk2916 said:

    I know Bendis isnt using her that much but isnt somewhat of an altered power for her to be able to use other telepaths as a like satellites or batteries now.

    Also Cyclops having control of the void would be awesome

    Not really an altered power but more of a substitute in place of her real telepathy.

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    @veitha said:

    And as for Rachel Grey, well she is a joke as a telepath nowadays. She's done nothing that puts her above Emma Frost.

    While I do agree that Emma's the superior telepath in terms of skill (even Rachel has admitted as much)..

    ..it is worth noting that Rachel was effectively able to control the Phoenix Force, while Emma lost control of herself before she even had half of it.

    The Greys are all connected to the Phoenix Force, it's not that strange for her to control it.

    Anyway, Rachel has never been depicted as one of the main X-telepaths, at least w/o the Phoenix Force

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    oldnightcrawler

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    @veitha said:

    @oldnightcrawler said:
    @veitha said:

    And as for Rachel Grey, well she is a joke as a telepath nowadays. She's done nothing that puts her above Emma Frost.

    While I do agree that Emma's the superior telepath in terms of skill (even Rachel has admitted as much)..

    ..it is worth noting that Rachel was effectively able to control the Phoenix Force, while Emma lost control of herself before she even had half of it.

    The Greys are all connected to the Phoenix Force, it's not that strange for her to control it.

    Anyway, Rachel has never been depicted as one of the main X-telepaths, at least w/o the Phoenix Force

    she was the only telepath on the team when she joined, so she was the main telepath for those two years (Aug.'84-Sept. '86) at least. If they hadn't brought Jean back in '86, she might even have remained so. But, yeah, I get your point.

    And I still think it's noteworthy that she could control the Phoenix when virtually no one else has been able to, whatever the reason.

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    Veitha

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    #45  Edited By Veitha

    @oldnightcrawler: but recently she's shown not to be that good(as in Amazing X-Men when she couldn't use Cerebra properly).

    Anyway, I think that the change that Bendis announced about Emma was in today's issue.

    BFF.

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    oldnightcrawler

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    @veitha said:

    @oldnightcrawler: but recently she's shown not to be that good(as in Amazing X-Men when she couldn't use Cerebra properly).

    Anyway, I think that the change that Bendis announced about Emma was in today's issue.

    I haven't been reading All-new', what was the change?

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    Veitha

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    @oldnightcrawler: Emma and Jean are officially friends and no longer rivals, they solved their issues during a telepathic battle.

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    adamTRMM

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    Can't even hope of knowing the answer before issue 40..

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    Koays

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    Lol does the Cuckoo's having TK count as altered powers? I mean we know Emma has latent TK but still.

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