Exactly! Especially the bolded part -- it was what kept me away from the Avengers as a team.

I gave up with this series after issue 3. There are other, much better books, for me to invest my time on, not to say that it is a totally bad series, it isn't, it just doesn't do it for me..

I'm interested in this book because of Remender but dam is it really that bad?

@m3th: No I'm enjoying it quite well I think it is more to do with people disliking the concept of the team rather than the actual quality of the book.

Edit: Although I guess it depends whether you are a fan of the characters.

I like it !

I like an indestructible team full of perfection. Crying is for the weak.

I don't like Scarlet Witch :D

no, it's actually great.

some people just can't get past the idea that some of these characters were X-men first.

But the Avengers have always been a collection of characters from all over the MU, so why wouldn't some former X-men be on it? Most superheroes in the MU are mutants, I don't think they should all have to be X-men; there's plenty of un-or-underused ones to go around.

I really tried to like this book, I read the entire first arc and the first issue from the new arc, cause I'm a huge fan of Rogue!

But I can't stand the story. A completely nonsense.

The new story arc is pretty good, what with the Apocalypse Twins. The first arc would have been a lot better if it had been double shipped, instead of being delayed the way it was.

I am generally finding the book to be a good mix between classic Avengers and classic X-men style story telling, in that there is a lot of drama and sex. However, I really don't like the fact that Havok is leading this team. Captain America is the unparalleled leader of super heroes and he's taking orders from a hot shot kid. It's just so... Wrong. This book would have been a lot better if Captain America weren't on it, IMO.

I think the book will get better as personalities gel and the main story really starts progressing.

You know what Remender could do to throw everyone for a loop, take a trip on over to see how The Six are doing.

That is the mission statement they were founded on: “...to fight the foes no single hero could withstand.” So unlike other teams, they always had the idea that these were the best of the best of heroes that have already proven themselves and could stand on their own as heroes in their own right as a guiding principle. And from a sales perspective, even the Justice League was created for a similar purpose - put a bunch of popular (and over the years, not some not so popular) heroes together for a blockbuster title.

The X-Men started out very differently from the motley crew they later became. If it wasn't for the fact that they were mutants, many of them would not be friends or companions hence the comparisons to a dysfunctional family, but this is why I think of them as a political action committee; the Avengers are about saving lives, the Earth, the human species, etc. while the X-Men are firstly united by a political identification (belief in human and mutant coexistence), with pretensions for superherhoics coming to the fore as the team gained experience and members.

You may wish you can see people fight in whine after Remender kills them all off.

@ultra_beleco: You should give it another shot. Especially if you like Uncanny X-Force.

this book has its ups and downs to me. i do agree that some of the characterizations are a bit off, like Havoc coming off as some unsure of himself leader, i mean come on the guy lead X-Factor for years before leading a faction of X-Men into space then ultimately leading the Starjammers. his leadership resume had a lot of depth to it. Scarlett Witch just seems like this super diva type who apparently is now all for fighting for mutant rights when she hasnt really given a crap about the mutants fight for equality in years. I LOVE Rouge, Thor, Wasp and Sunfire. they pretty much keep to the normal personalities in the book. Sunfire is still arrogant as hell and I love it. Rouge is the sassy southern belle who doesnt hold her tongue for anyone. Thor is Thor. and the Wasp is just awesome with her bubbly optimism. I think also think that the Apocalypse Twins story arc should have been something that took place in an X-Men book. just my opinion on that.

I absolutely don't give a damn about this team. Never been much into the avengers, and the only x people are care about (sunspot and cannonball) are barely shown. It's mostly bickering. The only reason I'm looking at it at all is the Apocalypse twins story

I gave it a shot but ultimately I just on't see this team working in the long run. Let this team fall apart so we can have the teams working in their own separate corner again.

It is better now. However Havok is not coming across as a strong leader. This is Cap's team. Cant believe Wolverine was letting them talk crap to him and he said and did nothing. God!! Did he lose his ballz along with his healing factor? IMO Scarlet Witch should have been dead. I really want the Avengers against the Xmen and someone should sanction a hit on her for what she did to the mutant community. That would set it off again.

@hawk2916: if we're going back to another VS event than I want both teams to actually kill one another especially Cyclops he's had it coming forcing that AvsX crap event.

@tigerkaya:

lol. that's a way to clean up the Marvel universe

This is my first post on CV, I've been reading here for some time, but now I kinda had to put it all out =) (sorry for my English, I'll do my best)

First of all I have this feeling that there's a lot of disagreements and other ego stuff between the writers, how's that? In the end of Children's Crusade, Wanda was like "I don't want to be with the Avengers, they're an army, not a family now". Where is she now? By the end of XM Legacy, Rogue was all optimistic and finally kinda happy, now she's bitter and negative. And most of all, I have a strong feeling that not all of the writers accept the Xorneto retcon, by referring to the NY destruction as it really was Magneto. And we had AVX.. We all know what a piece of **** was it, and I have a bunch of stuff to say about it as well, but this is not a place. What I will do say, referring to AVX, there is too much hypocrisy of some characters (that represented the "right" side of the story) that was "overloading" and was too hard to not notice. Beast is a natural true hero, with a code of morality. That's why he left Utopia and was pro-Avengers in AVX. Now, in New Avengers, he is a "mutant, who by being mutant knows when he has to do what is necessary" and accepts to destroy another world. Wolverine is headmaster and a "professor" in a school, who takes pro-Avengers side in a story, where mutant fate is at stake, but in UXF after everything that happened (a real mess) says to Beast "I'm asking from you to be an X-men for now, not an Avenger" and to accept everything he sees. Captain America\Cyclops discussion in the end of the AVX series was a total nonsense, CA attacked him like it was all Scotts fault, when actually all Cyclops had to say is "PF WAS COMING for Hope, Hope did revive the X-gene, I was right, you and your smarta**es were not. This conflict was pointless and the consequences are on YOU". Same with Wolvie in #Uncanny Avengers #9. Why do I have this feeling when CA speaks, there is no other truth and what he says becomes is a law in MU (actually, the first page of the last UA issue is referring exactly to this, that's why I liked it from the beginning) . For me, he is an outdated character that needs to be expended =)

What I'm trying to say is UA just another consequence of a mess that already exists for too much time, I mean everything between the XM (mutants) and the Avengers (rest of the heroes and the world). MU tried to handle it with AVX and uniting the heroes under Avengers image (and by sacrificing Cyclops and the other now UXM), we know how exactly has it gone... But I like UA as a story, very intriguing, good art, some expectations.

@hawk2916: I don't think SW has to die, but definitely she has to be punished. Instead of trying to poorly rehabilitate Wanda in our eyes in AVX with all this pathetic "chaos magic is PF kryptonite and being the key of its defeat", PF Cyclops should have DEPOWER her, completely and with never coming back. I can't accept the fact that she depowered millions of mutants and remains one of the most powerful ones.

Love that thought of depowering her, not a bad idea at all and would have come full circle with what she did. I kinda want Rogue to do this by draining her like she did Ms.Marvel and put her in a coma. But then again I still think the members of X-cell should kill her

@hawk2916: you see, I don't really hate her, I pity her. Think about it, her life sucked, for real. She is ashamed of ever being a member of Brotherhood of Mutants, a mutant and a daughter of Magneto. Almost all of the original Avengers fell in love with her, but she chose an android o_O She got her children story, that I really don't understand and it has ended bad for them and for her. Many people manipulated her (and still do) because of her powers. I find the end of HOM kinda emotional, especially that part where Dr. Strange found her and they had that conversation that revealed the truth. But no matter how ****ed up her life was, she has to answer for her actions. I don't get, how do writers choose, who is forgiven and who is the terrorist, when they're accused with the same crime (possession I guess).

This. I dropped the title after 2 issues because I couldn't stand the other characters, especially Havok. However, I hear that the current arc is pretty good despite whiny-and-suddenly-niave-and-pure-hearted Havok.

@adamtrmm: you bring up some very good points. i never even thought about having SW depowered. it would be such a very fitting fate for her. Also I never even liked her being as powerful as she is even after losing the power boost she had in Children's Crusade. I also agree that the writers need to get together and come to an agreement with how to deal with people who are guilty of similar offenses such as being possessed by a power they couldnt hope to control. the avengers are trying to make the phoenix five seem ultra terrible for what they did but if im correct they gave food to the hungry, stop warring countries, gave power to where there wasnt any and because the avenges didnt come up with a way to do it first they got pissed and baited the P5 into battle which ultimately drove them crazy and then blamed Cyclops and the others for the fallout and treated them as criminals. Then there's the Scarlett Witch, who had a break down because her children (fake as they may or may not have been) were gone, and loses it and then wipes out all the mutants because she was mad at her daddy. and oh look she gets to say sorry i didn't mean it and proceed to go about her business. It's bad form for that to happen.

Actually, I'd like them to come to an agreement about many, many things. :)

There was this issue, where CA summoned the Illuminati meeting, to try and to talk to Namor. Reed Richards told him and Stark, that all P5 are doing actually help the world, and if P5 will succeed in bringing world peace is what really scares them both much more than P5 going insane, cause they will succeed where Avengers did not. Very good issue, Bendis has his moments.

What I'm trying to say, even the writers (at least not all of them) did not try and take sides, they actually showed us that P5 did good and were about to bring the world peace. But then.. after that, what will they become? They would become Marvel Justice Lords, so Avengers were right too. The story wasn't that bad, it had its potential, but it was ****ed up with its accents. I wanted to punch somebody in a face when Stark said "OUR GIRL HOPE just kicked "Mad Cyclops ass" and she smiled.... After everything Scott and people, he made believe in her, sacrificed in her name, this is what he gets?! Avengers start this conflict, because they don't want Hope to merge with PF, with finally getting out the solution, they have to get merged! I'm not even talking about this "chi-stuff, a dragon and Wanda's magic"... And then, they killed off Professor X just to make Cyclops an actual villain of the story, there was no other reason. For how many years were X-men bonded to PF and this wasn't a problem, how did it become one is the story? Too many holes, too many disappointments and the Avengers win, just because they are getting popular (hell even Wolverine was with the Avengers just because he had to be in the "right" side of the story) and that's the way Marvel wanted them to.

@adamtrmm: exactly my whole stance on the AVX crossover is that the phoenix should not have even been a part of the event to begin with. they should have figured out a way for the avengers and the xmen to actually battle over something that made sense for them to actually be fighting over.

@photowill404:

Without the PF X-men did not have a chance, the Extinction Team was one of the best and most powerful teams on Earth ever (I would've really like to see more of them), but it's the hulks, most of the geniuses, the gods and the government (another reason to dislike them :)) that fought at the Avengers side. I really liked the idea of P5 (I wanted Magneto among them, but then he would steal all the show and the story would've become 'Magnix vs the world'), mostly it was really nice to see Cyclops after all those years will know what PF really is.

As I said there was a potential for a very good story, too bad it's gone the regular and generic way. It's stiil very interesting which course will they take Cyclops, because we all know that despite Magneto being not a bad person, what was the way to represent him. I think, that's the very time for comics to pass over this generic 'good and evel' stuff.

@adamtrmm:

True there are very few things in the world that are plainly good and or evil. Most if the time things fall into that grey area between the two. This is how I view magneto and how he's guiding Cyclops. Also since Cyclops is willing to do what other mutants like Havok and the rest of the avengers won't (fight for mutant rights on the ground level) it makes for some excellent story telling. I also just had a thought about the the first arc in UA, since the Red Skulls attack on New York with humans killing mutants or people with the mutant trait doesn't that make a strong case for Cyclops' whole reason for having his team in the first place.

Well said!

@photowill404:

Yeah, cuz you know it was always been this way. But then, there was Xavier and Magneto. Who would you side with, a man who says "if they hit you hit them back harder" or with a man who says "if they hit you just keep going your way"? The answer is obvious, that's why Marvel had to make Magneto a kinda mad person, surrounded by mad mutants, and all this just to make Xavier and the X-men look "better". Yes, I know he was a supremacist, but that was a classic Magneto, one-dimensional, typical villain. Since then, almost each character was a little retconed. What was done to him in 80s was just priceless. From the typical villain to a complicated anti-hero\anti-villain, that does what has to be done because it's necessary, with one little "punch", to not become what he hates the most. And with this powerful background from being a Jew to become a mutant, the new persecuted species, he swears "Never Again!". And while he did not really care that mother of his daughter, the love of his life, the one that gave him a motivation to go on, even after everything he lost, was a human, when he rightfully unleashed his vengeance upon those who burned their child alive, made Magda realize who he is and that instead of running towards him, to hug him like there's no tomorrow and to mourn their child's death together, she ran away from him as fast as she could. So yeah, for him coexistence was a joke, this is understandable and his motivation in the fight was obvious, but it wasn't necessary for him to be a bad person. Even though Marvel tried to sell us Xavier's dream (even by ruining characteristics Magneto have gained into a mad person once again in 90s and actually making him what he hates the most in the end, how typical), for some reason even they have realized it's not working. My guess? If mutants will become acceptable, it won't increase sells. The more problems you throw upon them, the better it sells :) And I like the new direction (even though some try to convince us that Cyclops have become a villain), I hope writers will stick with Uncanny X-men as they are now, men that just do what has to be done, and not a team of paranoid mad men. As for Uncanny Avengers I'm really looking for some interaction with UXM, SW enlisted them as one of 3 main treats to the world, among Red Skull and Apocalypse twins. I still hope =)