Two's Company, Jean's a Crowd?

Posted by God_Spawn (39106 posts) - - Show Bio

After seeing the teaser image with the Phoenix Force I thought of something. Is this big Jean's return? Jean Grey for quite a long time has become relevantly irrelevant. It just seems that Marvel doesn't have room for her anymore and probably won't for a long time which is why all her return theories seem like they just fall apart. Honestly I feel like she is just a plot device by name now. Like in Curse of the Mutants when Vamperine was raging at Scott saying "Jeannie wouldn't even recognize you". And there was the instance recently in Schism when Wolverine and Scott were arguing and her name came up to spite Wolverine by Cyclops and in turn got used to spite Cyclops. Her name is just a plot device, just something used to get people to stir. But what if she does come back? Where will she go? What will she do? Scott's in a relationship that just seemingly got rekindled by Gillen, Wolverine is everywhere at once, Hope is mysteriously connected to the Phoenix Force so is there really a need for her on Marvel Earth with the X-Men? Jean even without the Phoenix Force is an Omega Level mutant would be one of the most powerful beings on Marvel Earth. So what purpose does she really have if she returns?

Scott

Scott and Jean...old school lovers for years and just destined to be separated but inseparable. What would be the benefit of Jean going back to Cyclops if she comes back? That ship , in my opinion, has sailed, but in comics anything is possible. It would kick Emma to the curb and screw up that relationship. It would screw up the character development that Emma helped Scott gained, all it would is just back track Scott. It would go against the instances of Cyclops stating he has picked Emma over Jean. He has moved on so why should she still be used as a plot device to get some cheap pop from the hardcore Jean and Cyclops fans? It's getting as old as all the false Emma and Namor promos over the years. Enough of the relationship side so let's take a look at this from just a team standpoint since Schism split up the X-men. Cyclops' new X-tinction team includes Emma, Namor, Magik, Juggernaut/Colossus, Magneto, Danger, Storm and Hope. Do they really need her? I see absolutely no reason to put her on that team. The team is stacked with some of the most powerful mutants and Emma is already a powerful telepath and Hope there can just copy her powers and they also have Psylocke jumping between both teams. It would take some seriously bad writing or over powered enemies to even put a dent in that if Jean was there, the team is already powerful as it is. So what purpose would she have if she went back to Cyclops except die on him again? I don't see it doing anything beneficial, in fact I see it being more pointless or doing more damage than good.

Emma Frost

What would happen with Emma? Would she get kicked aside from Scott even though he has already said he would pick her and has moved on from Jean and Jean accepted it? Why have two of the most powerful telepaths on the same team plus Hope and Psylocke?? Would Emma finally go with Namor? Emma has played leading X-Lady for a long time now and has done a great job at it. She has effectively replaced Jean as that head of the X-Girls aside from maybe Storm. It leaves a few options for Emma such as going with Namor, jumping ship to Wolverine's team, disappearing for awhile and opening a school somewhere. If Emma stayed on the team, she would just suffer the Storm treatment which to be such a powerful character and not have that same type of grandeur the character should receive which Storm should have IMO. It wouldn't really help Emma as a character either and she doesn't deserve to play second fiddle to anyone. Her character has always been like that personality wise but in terms of telepathy she will always be behind Jean. I think that should be as far as it goes.

Hope

The Mutant Messiah with the mysterious connection to the Phoenix Force. Why would we need another Phoenix Force user when they have one on the X-tinction team? I know Hope hasn't fully realized its potential and with the upcoming event in 2012 with the picture of the Phoenix, it could mean a Jean return or the event isn't about Jean but Hope using the Phoenix Force. It would make the whole Phoenix Force connection that Hope has pointless for two people to wield it unless that theory that Hope is Jean reincarnated is really true.

Wolverine

Possibly the only beneficial option that I see. Wolverine's big problem over the years is that his lovers die, even Jean, in fact he killed her before. The thing is he has always had an attraction for her and his and Cyclops' rivalry over her has become one of the most well known feuds in comics. One thing about Jean is she always comes back one way or another, so why not put her with Wolverine finally who himself has such a powerful healing factor he practically defies death himself? Both characters have had some kind of chemistry and have had such a big fan base, but hasn't had much of a chance to fully happen. Now let's look at this relationship from the team stand point. Jean could be to Wolverine what Emma is to Scott and he did name the Institute after her. The only draw back is Wolverine has Rachel Grey and Kid Omega, which again would be another overpowered situation so it is seemingly pointless if she did.

X-men

Well what about the rest of the X-men? There are plenty of them and there are plenty of new X books so where would she go? Some X-Men have been stuck as background characters despite being praised as some of the most powerful mutants for awhile now like Storm and Magneto who used to be big players but at least they have stuck around and get a bone tossed to them every now and then. I know there are a lot of Magneto fans and Storm fans that would love if those characters did something that actually utilizes their potential. If Jean was added to the mix, it would just crowd up the room again, and either Jean would be underwritten to make her manageable or one of those characters would still be held back for a longer period of time if not all of them will. If it's already happening to a bunch of them why would we need another one on the same team? I just see it being pointless.

So these are my thoughts on Jean right now. I just don't see much use for her right now or anywhere in the near future. The X-men are just too crowded and Jean has become much more than any of them ever could be. If she went back to Earth without getting depowered. Unless there is this big threat, Jean just doesn't fit in and when it's over, unless she gets cut off from the PF or depowered she doesn't have a practical use for her abilities. If she does come back it either ruins something good for a cheap pop or she just runs off or dies again. Maybe she can have a solo series of her adventures as the Phoenix or something if she really has to come back. I don't really care if she comes back or not, the X-men have been doing fine without her and I'm not bashing Jean in this blog, I'm just asking what would be the point and would it really be worth it?

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#1 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

yes, this is the only thing that could be done

#2 Posted by zombietag (1611 posts) - - Show Bio

plenty of people have been possessed by pheonix, so it could be anyone

#3 Posted by Darkmount1 (1390 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say cut her off from the Phoenix for good, THAT'S the one that's become the plot device, not Jean. Bring her back, but cut her off from the Phoenix Force and never use it again. Just have her be a normal psychic for once. Regarding all those other points, since hers' and Scott's ship has sailed, and Logan's already dating Melita, why not have her do either of the following:

-Join X-Factor Investigations

-Have her run for Congress (joking, I'm joking)....

-Have her form a new hero team of her own, made up of some of the more underused Marvel heroes.

What about those options?

#4 Posted by MyraMyraMyra (296 posts) - - Show Bio

She's bound to return, but I'd really prefer her to be reinvented as a character when she does. I don't want her assuming her former roles.

As stated in the OP, she has been replaced in many ways. Scott has moved on, Emma Frost has become the resident telepath, and based on the promos, the Phoenix Force is eyeing Hope as its new host. There really isn't a need to bring her back as she was, so I'm hoping that when her inevitable return occurs, she'll completely evolve as a character. I'm hoping that there will be no more of the Scott/Jean/Logan love triangle (or Emma/Scott/Jean, for that matter) and no more story arcs about Jean becoming the Dark Phoenix.

Personally, what I'd really like to see being addressed more is the god-like aspect of her character. Her immerse powers have obviously been covered in many story arcs, but the focus has been mostly on her trying to control the PF inside of her. I'd like to see story arcs focusing on what happens she is in control of her astonishing powers. She's arguably the most powerful mutant in the world, and before her latest "death" she became the White Phoenix of the Crown, which apparently makes her even stronger and more in control of all the power she possesses. Essentially, she's almost like a goddess. She's nearly almighty, but not all-knowing. As smart as she is, she's still a human, so her wisdom is limited and her judgement is bound to be as flawed as anyone else's.

I really think it would be interesting to study this "human heart & mind + god-like powers" dilemma (without slipping into the old Good Phoenix/Dark Phoenix territory). What should she do with all that power? How could she use her powers to benefit the world the best, and how can she know that she's doing the right thing? Who should she side with now that the X-Men have been divided into two different camps? Should she use her powers to help the mutantkind fight the rest of the world, or should she be a peacemaker between humans and mutants? Should she participate in the conflict at all? Would she be able to lead a relatively normal life, or would her powers make her became detached from the world around her? Can she be in a relationship? And what does the rest of the world expect of her? Would Scott's side and Logan's side be competing of her? How does she feel about rising from the grave and about being apparently immortal? How does all this affect the way she sees herself?

Being as powerful as she is poses all sorts of moral questions that could lead into interesting story arcs. It would also be a great basis for some human drama. Just no more of that Dark Phoenix.stuff. It's been done.

Personally, I'd like to see her distancing herself from both camps of X-Men and exploring the extent of her powers on her own.

#5 Posted by joshmightbe (25857 posts) - - Show Bio

Scale down her Phoenix powers to around the level of a Herald of Galactus, put her with the Annihilators and hook her up with Beta Ray Bill cause old horse face needs some lovin

#6 Posted by CATPANEXE (9505 posts) - - Show Bio

She will, soon. her bottom line is she's a popular and very demanded character in the extreme regard. The company won't let that fact go unnoticed and keep her on the bench for much longer, and still has found other means to have her continually present (that and they did actually leave her alive and everything open ended). They've been hinting directly at this even back with Rachael right about the time Korvus was introduced give or take. There's really many reasons it wouldn't make sense in continuity at all, #1 being the damage it would do to Hopes relevance one way or another. Then again it's not like they've never has two or more alike characters in the same world at the same time either? Still, it wouldn't surprise me at all is what I'll say as it's not like Marvel, nor DC for that matter hasn't done something that really didn't fit continuity all that well at the time they did. Personally since she was never dead just adventuring elsewhere in a more evolved form I would have just as well extended her adventures away from Marvel Earth in that and never had her leave the readers eyes from the get go (as well the scale and potential for stories in everything past her last appearance (well not quite) was too good to have just wasted like they did).

#7 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

Best blog title EVAR.

#8 Posted by jubilee042 (1375 posts) - - Show Bio

awesome blog title

and yeah jeans coming but i would want her to join the avengers or secret avengers(they should have a telepath) and start a romance with steve

#9 Posted by awesomex (96 posts) - - Show Bio

if jeans coming back they should hook her up with Colossus since he single again.

#10 Posted by ReVamp (22994 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

Best blog title EVAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Added excalmation marks for emphasis.

#11 Posted by ethanrjc (50 posts) - - Show Bio

I would have been happy if uncanny x-force brought back AoA jean... but, if they ever brought the real Jean Grey back, they should separate her from the phoinex force definitely. she needs character development. jean grey was an evolving character who had the potential to become the strongest telepathic ever, but her character development came to a screeching halt when she became the phoinex. the character of jean grey the telepath was thrown out the window.. instead, she became the stereotypical phoinex that only lives to die over and over. how many times can she be reborn for a little while just so they can make up another sacrificial way for her to die again. jean grey needs to be jean grey, not pawn of the phoinex. she shouldn't be pawn of cyclops either, or vice versa. maybe her relationship with wolverine really should be discovered, but not until after jean grey has had some time to settle into the marvel universe again. she needs to use the powers she was born to use, not possessed to use. I envision her more on wolverines side than cyclops.. just the nature of the school and being more relatable to Xavier's dream. I would even like to see her maybe make her own team. she could be leader of her own xmen team with maybe a more classic roster.... jean grey, xavier, iceman, colossus, storm, beast, kitty.

#12 Posted by riri4life (7684 posts) - - Show Bio

At the end of the day, whether u love or hate her, Jean is a founding and iconic memeber of the X-men...so she will always be involved somehow. She deserves that much respect (unlike other hoes). I agree though that she's needs to be reinvented as a character. The longer she is gone, the more characters they seem to create or build up to the same point of overexposure or lack of interest. The sooner she comes back, the better imo....but it must be done RIGHT this time!

#13 Posted by BlackArmor (6139 posts) - - Show Bio

Leave her dead

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#14 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

I strongly suspect Jean will not be coming back. Just the name of the school and the upcoming AoA comic due to start in the new year is enough through Marvel's eyes.

Hope will have the Phoenix Force visit her - she's been stagnant too long, and clearly is the host being hinted at. Jean Grey will remain dead. At least for the next little while - too confusing otherwise and besides, too many other events are coming our way (especially with the new Astonishing line-up)

#15 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4766 posts) - - Show Bio
@ethanrjc said:

I would have been happy if uncanny x-force brought back AoA jean... but, if they ever brought the real Jean Grey back, they should separate her from the phoinex force definitely. she needs character development. jean grey was an evolving character who had the potential to become the strongest telepathic ever, but her character development came to a screeching halt when she became the phoinex. the character of jean grey the telepath was thrown out the window.. instead, she became the stereotypical phoinex that only lives to die over and over. how many times can she be reborn for a little while just so they can make up another sacrificial way for her to die again. jean grey needs to be jean grey, not pawn of the phoinex. she shouldn't be pawn of cyclops either, or vice versa. maybe her relationship with wolverine really should be discovered, but not until after jean grey has had some time to settle into the marvel universe again. she needs to use the powers she was born to use, not possessed to use. I envision her more on wolverines side than cyclops.. just the nature of the school and being more relatable to Xavier's dream. I would even like to see her maybe make her own team. she could be leader of her own xmen team with maybe a more classic roster.... jean grey, xavier, iceman, colossus, storm, beast, kitty.

what is your definition of character development?  Jean has been a character since 1963, in all that time she only actually died twice once in the Sun and last at the hands of Xorn and that was like 40 years after her first appearance.  She was Phoenix from 1976 to 1980, she returned in 1986 as just Jean and was that way until she came out of the Sun in 2004 for 18 years she was just Jean Grey, she became the second most powerful telepath on the planet during that 18 years, she also took the mantle of most powerful telepath from 1996 to 1999 while Xavier is depowered.  I keep hearing a lot of people talking about how this mutant and that mutant needs character development and it's mostly about mutants that have been around for 40-30 years as major players,  with stories that have already told basically who they are and what they are about seems to me like people really want character re-invention and not the development of already existing characters.  Jean is an adult woman she has been a god, married, killed, resurrected, raised a child for 12 years, been to the past and all across the universe, what else needs to be developed?  People call her a mary sue and miss perfect but in reality she is a girl from the suburbs that was raised by loving parents in a loving family.   Is it such a big surprise she is one of the more well rounded Xmen?  She's like one of the pretty popular people that everybody hates because she doesn't make it a point lash out on everybody around her because she had a bad day, she's a grin and bear it type of girl, but she has a dark side too, piss her off and she might destroy the universe.  She has left the Xmen before, went to college, became a model, she left again when her husband was nearly killed and that's when she decided to stop holding her power back and wore the Green Phoenix costume and displayed a fiery raptor with her own psionic powers.  Her feelings for Wolverine have been explored and though she had strong feelings for him it's pretty obvious that they are the type of feelings a lot of girls have for misunderstood bad boy, all animal and nothing else, people tend to overlook that she and Wolverine are also close friends.  Read her back issues she was born to use the Phoenix it was a hidden aspect of her consciousness that even she wasn't aware of  before Xavier met Cyclops and manifested during one of her training sessions before he locked her telepathy away.  Death also tells her it's her birthright, and it's a power that she only really used for 4 of our years and even less time in the MU.  She has over 30 years in comics without the Phoenix, she was not a pawn of the Phoenix as she was not possessed by it, the Dark Phoenix was a product of Jean not handling the power well and giving in to corruption, not some evil cosmic being that took control over her.   She was not a pawn of Cyclops or vice versa they were married, my mother is the most important woman in the world to my father and vice versa and they have been together since my mothers senior year in highschool in the 60's, that is how most married people act, they are co-dependent on each other, it's basically in the vows.  Wolverines side is her side, she would have never allowed the school to close, she only let Scott go as White Phoenix because a better future depended on them not closing the school.  She made two teams in the past, one team she put together to save the Mannites and another to save Xavier.  Everything you want to see has been done.  Not trying to be funny or mean, but what was the first issue you read that had Jean in it?  I remember not getting into the Xmen until some time in the late 90s but I made sure I went to my comic book store every time I had money to get back issues.
#16 Posted by ethanrjc (50 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans: yes i understand she has had alot of character development, im not saying she has none at all. i am saying right now, her character development, her credibility, is gone. zip. all that character development you just listed off doesn't seem to mean anything to her character in today's comics. thanks for listing off all the ideas of jean grey that don't mean anything to her character today... i think marvel needs to use all of that for her character, instead of killing her off for their story.

#17 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4766 posts) - - Show Bio
@ethanrjc said:

@LordOfAllHumans: yes i understand she has had alot of character development, im not saying she has none at all. i am saying right now, her character development, her credibility, is gone. zip. all that character development you just listed off doesn't seem to mean anything to her character in today's comics. thanks for listing off all the ideas of jean grey that don't mean anything to her character today... i think marvel needs to use all of that for her character, instead of killing her off for their story.

today her character is inactive, and to her credibility they have opened a school in her name, one of Emmas greatest fears is that Jean will return, take her man and kill her (recent), Cyclops and Wolverine still fight over her (recent), and Wolverine would have recently lost his soul if not for her intervention.  How can character development disappear?  The only way it means nothing is if they re-imagine her.  What Marvel really needs, is to stop hiring douche bag writers that should be writing for What Ifs? and alternate realities and not the core books as they don't seem to care about any of the Xmens past character development.
#18 Edited by A-Strondinaire (416 posts) - - Show Bio

As I've stated before when Jean comes back the Phoenix should be expunged from her record. I want Jean Grey to return and it's obvious Marvel does too by how they're always throwing her into the media (Clothes, Games, Merchandise) but if there going to utilize her for her old team Phoenix needs to be a finite entity. Jean Grey is the first X-Woman and she needs to show this just as much as Sue shows her cred or how Scarlet Witch has shown or reason for being one of the female avenger lieutenants. All the Phoenix has done for her is how much of a crutch she uses out of the Phoenix. Jean's return should be done subtle yet exciting and the story-lines that follow should be; her adapting to the changes in the marvel universe, mending bridges with the X-Men, and joining a team (I nominate her for New Avengers she just seems right for that team) and sitting down somewhere. I also should add that once she comes back they should put at least a five year hold on her before they try and start killing her once she's up for grabs it's like open season on Phoenix (it actually mirrors her game-play style in MVC3 if you put her in the front of the team. Jean Grey Public enemy #1)

#19 Posted by ScarlettWitch (8 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans: Wow, your I love what you wrote. Jean was never controlled by Scott, she was a smart, independent woman, in love.What's wrong with showing loyalty and compassion for your lover? And thank you for pointing out that the Phoenix force was around for only a very small amount of time in the X-Men history books. Yes it was huge story arcs, but like any other, it came and went. I do think that the writers stop need to finding ways to chastise Scott ( all the characters that scold him for doing something they don't think Jean would agree with ), their relationship was over before she died. Again, your response was well written and very articulate, and I agree with everything you said!

#20 Edited by GREGalicious (512 posts) - - Show Bio

There's always room for Jean. I hear a lot of people blaming her average personality and the Phoenix on Jean's so-called irrelevance but thats what made her so popular and cool to begin with. She was an ordinary girl with a destiny much bigger than her. Poor writing/writers have been her only problem for years. They have all the tools to move Jean's character forward and just dont or cant. Endsong clearly established that she is in fact one and the same with the force and not just merely its host so lets stop dragging that up. Everything about her connection to it and its purpose have been cleared up. Shes pushed Scott to move on so that relationship isnt holding her back. Most of the newer X-Men stories (in general) have really been horrible in my opinion and one of the last good storylines they had involved Jean.

Although I do like Hope, I find her to be boring (and a plot device herself). I dont believe for one second she has a connection to the Phoenix Force. I just think she's channeling it's leftovers. As far as Scott goes, Emma can have him; he was always lame anyway and of all the original X-Men, Jean shouldve been the one to become headmaster of Xavier's school. I always felt that Wolverine knew her best so it makes perfect sense that his school would be named after her. Jean needs a really great return, her own team, and a new purpose. As powerful as she is, it would be great to have her lead a new team of EXILES traveling to different worlds, repairing timelines, and gathering these Phoenix fragments she's been searching for in order to become "whole". They could use that as an excuse to travel to some of the more popular alternate universes (as well as new ones) during different time periods, while still integrating her into current X-Men stories. They could cut back all the ridiculous alternate universe mini-events and just revisit them in Jean's series.

At least thats the route I personally would take with her.

#21 Posted by GREGalicious (512 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans: I ABSOLUTELY agree with everything!!!

#22 Posted by lorex (995 posts) - - Show Bio

I have said it before and I will say it again, I always liked the idea that Jean was off on a higher plane of existance dealing with things beyond mortal comprehension.  I think Jean should stay dead and not come back but like alod of formerly dead characters in 
comics there is a vocal group that will continue to whine and bitch until what they want happens, then that same group will complain thet the return was no good, ahen Barry Allen. If they do bring her back and she is mortal again, without a connection the 
phoenix force thet has potential to be interesting. What will the reactions of her friends and faimiy be, or wait her family was whiped out already in the "End of Greys" storyline. Honestly my biggest concern with the upcoming story line is not the potential of Jean's 
return but the involvement of the Avengers and billed conflict with the X-Men. 

#23 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

She should stay dead. It's really annoying killing a character twice only to bring him/her back just to sell more copies. I agree with everything you say, I have an objection over the Wolverine-Jean thing. Sure, there was a physical attraction, it was obvious, but to be honest these two were never meant to be together. At least, in my mind. So, I dedicate to this "couple" a song from Duran Duran named "come undone".

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