Thoughts on AvX after reading AvX 10

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#1 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok so right off the bat im going to say that from the very beginning I have been and still am rooting for the X-men in all of this, however i feel that the X-Men (not counting the Phoenix Five) have been lost in the mix. I feel that this book has always been more focused towards avengers rather than the X-Men as a whole. Now this is not to say that the X-men are not a part of this its just that i feel like they have become background players to the avengers. My other problem with the series so far is how they are trying to vilify Cyclops and the other Phoenix Five. Granted Emma is most certainly deserving of that considering her actions in recent issues. however Namor was being manipulated (by Emma) into attacking Wakanda, secondly Colossus had a brief spat of anger but quickly fought to regain control over his emotions. Magik is and has always been the same character that she has always been. and Cyclops has really done nothing wrong except better the world for both mutants AND humans. The only thing he wants to do is save mutantkind and it seems as though all the other mutants have forgotten that they are an endangered species. Now you have Professor X saying things like this he is on the side he has always been on 'humanity' but correct me if im wrong wasnt his dream for mutants and humans to coexist in peace with equal treatment. how long will the X-Men have to be over backwards and save the earth and at times the universe before they earn the respect of the Avengers. i guess its ok to be a superhero and try to save people so long as its people the avengers deem worthy to be saved. just my thought after reading issue 10.

#2 Posted by thespideyguy (2645 posts) - - Show Bio

When is the thunderer going to tell scarlet witch and iron fist to hook up and end this.

#3 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that this event is just too focused on the Avengers and they are trying to make the X-Men look like the bad guys throughout this event.  I wonder if the X-Men will ever come out of this event easily?

#4 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog: newsflash THEY ARE THE BAD GUYS

#5 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker: how are they the bad guys? what have they done they wasnt provoked by some sort of action by the avengers? oh yeah thats right, they only ended wars all over the planet, gave food to the hungry, gave energy where there was none and simply made the world a better place. and because the avengers didnt do this and were afraid they would become obsolete they started trying to fix the problem that they had a hand in creating.

#6 Posted by IllyanaRasputin (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@photowill404 said:

@JohnnyWalker: how are they the bad guys? what have they done they wasnt provoked by some sort of action by the avengers? oh yeah thats right, they only ended wars all over the planet, gave food to the hungry, gave energy where there was none and simply made the world a better place. and because the avengers didnt do this and were afraid they would become obsolete they started trying to fix the problem that they had a hand in creating.

i like you. haha =)

#7 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@photowill404: oh yes they havent done anything except impose their where ever they want how they want and those that oppose them are removed from the board. lets see how their 'making the world a better place' plan holds up without the PF. they are more hated than ever now. piotr snapped for a second and wanted to destroy his own people. or how about namor destroying wakanda? what was the provocation there? how i love how some people on the vine are rooting for the poor mutants that do whatever they want. or how about emma ? she started killing people INNOCENT people and enslaving mutants to think happy thoughts or else.

@IllyanaRasputin: ir magik loosing the little mind she had. i hope she dies and never comes back.

you can blow on the PFs horn all you want but that doesnt make them innocent.

#8 Edited by Rickbarry (1754 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker: They're fighting alongside someone that destroyed an race practically. So whatever highground they claim to have is gone. Scarlet Witch=worse than P5. Besides the P5 didn't screw with the Avengers until they attacked Utopia for a second time. They started the war. Also, Emma killed a man that killed a mutant. It might be a little eye for an eye, but he wasn't innocent.

On topic, Cyclops is such a 'monster' because he would kill a dragon that tried to kill him.

#9 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@IllyanaRasputin: lol thanks

#10 Edited by IllyanaRasputin (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker: Wishing someone as amazing as me to die is really rude. I understand that Illyana has had her dark days but in all fairness BEFORE everything she hasn't a soul since she's been brought back from House of M. She just recently got her soul back right before Age of X. NOW writers keep forgetting that she has parts of her soul back and just write her off as a little demon child still. SO don't go hating on Magik just because writers don't know how to write her. The Phoenix is definitely manipulating Magik and making her go back into her Darkchild ways. NOW if writers are going to writer her correctly they should start writing her like they were writing her in the New Mutant comics right after she got her soul back. BUT NO. She had to be put in prison for what she HAD with the demonic god dudes, and she understands that, doesn't make her an evil demon beotch anymore. She should be like her snowflake self if writers understood that she's not all evil.

In conclusion, after AvX is done Illyana should just join back with the New Mutants and she can be written properly with an actual soul rather than have her being written off as a souless bitch

#11 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

@photowill404 said:

Ok so right off the bat im going to say that from the very beginning I have been and still am rooting for the X-men in all of this, however i feel that the X-Men (not counting the Phoenix Five) have been lost in the mix. I feel that this book has always been more focused towards avengers rather than the X-Men as a whole. Now this is not to say that the X-men are not a part of this its just that i feel like they have become background players to the avengers. My other problem with the series so far is how they are trying to vilify Cyclops and the other Phoenix Five. Granted Emma is most certainly deserving of that considering her actions in recent issues. however Namor was being manipulated (by Emma) into attacking Wakanda, secondly Colossus had a brief spat of anger but quickly fought to regain control over his emotions. Magik is and has always been the same character that she has always been. and Cyclops has really done nothing wrong except better the world for both mutants AND humans. The only thing he wants to do is save mutantkind and it seems as though all the other mutants have forgotten that they are an endangered species. Now you have Professor X saying things like this he is on the side he has always been on 'humanity' but correct me if im wrong wasnt his dream for mutants and humans to coexist in peace with equal treatment. how long will the X-Men have to be over backwards and save the earth and at times the universe before they earn the respect of the Avengers. i guess its ok to be a superhero and try to save people so long as its people the avengers deem worthy to be saved. just my thought after reading issue 10.

The problem with Avengers Vs X-men is that we have here is what is meant and should have been an X-men event that has the Avengers crow-barred in because of the release of the avengers movie, and also an excuse to do their own version of the new 52 ( which is Marvel NOW.) You can tell that Marvel is not even trying with this event. The Avengers come off as unlikeable super cops drunk on power, the x-men have no problem with the phoenix five until the writer says so, Wolverine should NEVER fight against the X-men and him being hyped up as " the voice of reason" felt flat really quick, Hope and the Scarlet Witch are nothing but plot points and etc. AVX is the equivalent of a movie tie-in game: its only purpose is to take your money rather than deliver a quality product.

#12 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@photowill404: oh yes they havent done anything except impose their where ever they want how they want and those that oppose them are removed from the board. lets see how their 'making the world a better place' plan holds up without the PF. they are more hated than ever now. piotr snapped for a second and wanted to destroy his own people. or how about namor destroying wakanda? what was the provocation there? how i love how some people on the vine are rooting for the poor mutants that do whatever they want. or how about emma ? she started killing people INNOCENT people and enslaving mutants to think happy thoughts or else.

@IllyanaRasputin: ir magik loosing the little mind she had. i hope she dies and never comes back.

you can blow on the PFs horn all you want but that doesnt make them innocent.

imposing their will?! they wanted to to make the world better and they did just that. without harming innocent people to do it. even iron man and Mr. Fantastic referenced the fact that they were doing way more good than harm. and as far as Piotr snapping, he lost his cool for a brief moment when his fellow mutants were questioning they good the P5 were doing all over the world. and Namor attacking Wakanda was due to him trying to save a mutant who was injured and being lied to by Emma. and as far as her killing, she killed a man who killed a mutant and didnt even bother to feel remorse for it. i will however give you that last part about her making mutants 'think happy thoughts' that is clearly her subconsciously evil self coming to the forefront. and they were DEFENDING themselves from the avengers or have you forgotten how the Avengers INVADED Utopia tried to KIDNAP Hope, caused the split of the Phoenix in the first place, then went on to try and ASSASSINATE Cyclops who just sends Rulk back ALIVE but scarred.

#13 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio
@x_29 said:

@photowill404 said:

Ok so right off the bat im going to say that from the very beginning I have been and still am rooting for the X-men in all of this, however i feel that the X-Men (not counting the Phoenix Five) have been lost in the mix. I feel that this book has always been more focused towards avengers rather than the X-Men as a whole. Now this is not to say that the X-men are not a part of this its just that i feel like they have become background players to the avengers. My other problem with the series so far is how they are trying to vilify Cyclops and the other Phoenix Five. Granted Emma is most certainly deserving of that considering her actions in recent issues. however Namor was being manipulated (by Emma) into attacking Wakanda, secondly Colossus had a brief spat of anger but quickly fought to regain control over his emotions. Magik is and has always been the same character that she has always been. and Cyclops has really done nothing wrong except better the world for both mutants AND humans. The only thing he wants to do is save mutantkind and it seems as though all the other mutants have forgotten that they are an endangered species. Now you have Professor X saying things like this he is on the side he has always been on 'humanity' but correct me if im wrong wasnt his dream for mutants and humans to coexist in peace with equal treatment. how long will the X-Men have to be over backwards and save the earth and at times the universe before they earn the respect of the Avengers. i guess its ok to be a superhero and try to save people so long as its people the avengers deem worthy to be saved. just my thought after reading issue 10.

The problem with Avengers Vs X-men is that we have here is what is meant and should have been an X-men event that has the Avengers crow-barred in because of the release of the avengers movie, and also an excuse to do their own version of the new 52 ( which is Marvel NOW.) You can tell that Marvel is not even trying with this event. The Avengers come off as unlikeable super cops drunk on power, the x-men have no problem with the phoenix five until the writer says so, Wolverine should NEVER fight against the X-men and him being hyped up as " the voice of reason" felt flat really quick, Hope and the Scarlet Witch are nothing but plot points and etc. AVX is the equivalent of a movie tie-in game: its only purpose is to take your money rather than deliver a quality product.

Yeah, that's what I don't like about this event. None of the characters are acting right in this event.
#14 Posted by xtremexfan (38 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm really starting to hate this series. They need to stop trying to change Scott into this villain character.

#15 Posted by Dman1366 (547 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't know what to think really. I do not hate AvX, nor do I thoroughly enjoy it. I feel that it would have been a lot more fun if Marvel waited a year and let both sides take a rest from Schism/Regenesis and Fear Itself; and just let them do their own thing. That being said, I think that AvX has it's fun moments. Although it has taken some, unnecessary, build up.

Which brings me to to this issue. Almost all issues have been so slow, and dragging stuff on that was totally of topic. While in this issue, there were some major, key, elements that they just breezed over. What is the dragon about? Why did Scott go from level headed, and world changing, to super villain? Why didn't Scott sense/talk to the Watcher? Why did Hope not absorb the Pheonix in earlier issues? ect... The coincidence being that AvX has been so slow, and this single issue is too fast.

#16 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

Six billion souls vs less then two hundred. So yeah it's all the avengers fault.

The fact that scott and emma have lost a great deal to the phoenix and yet they both seem to believe that the phoenix can save the mutant race.

Cap was sent by the U.S government to take hope into protective custody to keep those six billion souls safe it only became an attack when scott attacked cap.

Both sides have being writing doing some really dumb things. The writers have done some even dumber.

The lack of continuity is F-ing annoying.

You Can Not have a phoenix event without Jean Grey in the mix somehow.

#17 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@xtremexfan said:

I'm really starting to hate this series. They need to stop trying to change Scott into this villain character.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!

#18 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio
@photowill404 said:

@xtremexfan said:

I'm really starting to hate this series. They need to stop trying to change Scott into this villain character.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!

I agree!
#19 Posted by Dernman (14786 posts) - - Show Bio

BMHATW

#20 Edited by Skaddix (3112 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rickbarry said:

@JohnnyWalker: They're fighting alongside someone that destroyed an race practically. So whatever highground they claim to have is gone. Scarlet Witch=worse than P5. Besides the P5 didn't screw with the Avengers until they attacked Utopia for a second time. They started the war. Also, Emma killed a man that killed a mutant. It might be a little eye for an eye, but he wasn't innocent.

On topic, Cyclops is such a 'monster' because he would kill a dragon that tried to kill him.

He was pretty innocent he accidentally hit a mutant while flying a plane. Hardly a mass murder. Danger talked a mutant into killing himself where is the death penalty for that? Not to mention Namor's tsunami that killed civilians. Although the worse part is no involvement from Bishop and Cable. Seriously, they totally ruined Bishop and he is not even around for the culmination of this plot utter bs

#21 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's just gotten to a point that the Phoenix 5 shouldn't be considered heroes any more.

#22 Posted by Yasiiii4 (150 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@photowill404: oh yes they havent done anything except impose their where ever they want how they want and those that oppose them are removed from the board. lets see how their 'making the world a better place' plan holds up without the PF. they are more hated than ever now. piotr snapped for a second and wanted to destroy his own people. or how about namor destroying wakanda? what was the provocation there? how i love how some people on the vine are rooting for the poor mutants that do whatever they want. or how about emma ? she started killing people INNOCENT people and enslaving mutants to think happy thoughts or else.

@IllyanaRasputin: ir magik loosing the little mind she had. i hope she dies and never comes back.

you can blow on the PFs horn all you want but that doesnt make them innocent.

Completely agree, I have no idea how people are not seeing them as basically villains now

They're not innocent at all

#23 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@IllyanaRasputin: you are not the character. distinguish reality from fiction.

#24 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7266 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL @ An unhinged few trying to root for the Avengers. Sorry, but that way of playing things is futile and asinine. You just can't do it.

It doesn't even matter if the P5 are villians or not, the fact of the matter is that none of their acts were ill-intentioned. This has been said time and again and i'll still repeat it: they were doing what was best for mutant kind and the world. Even before they acquired pieces of the PF, the X-Men (more like Cyclops) were nothing but saints in terms of trying to restore their race and save the world at the same damn time, where were the Avengers ? Drinking tea while speculating whether or not Norman Osbourn was worth the case, another thing that i've repeated. If anything, what this event has shown is that the Avengers are all too far up their own asses to realize what's at stake, they help when they deem fit and when they do, nothing good comes of it. What we're getting with AvX is HoM Vol.2, an event where Earth's super-powered heroes gather from far and wide to deal with a certain female who possesses power far greater than your wildest dreams, and, could possibly wipe out the entire world or universe if she wanted to.

What you people who are claiming the P5 to be villians are missing, is this:

If it wasn't for that retard of Earth's Idiotic Heroes, NONE of this would be happening. The Avengers, once again, could not leave well enough alone and decided to take matters into their own hands, but alas, they're never happy with the out-come, even if this time, THEY were the ones that caused it. Sorry, but as far as the P5 are concerned, the Avengers are the ones to blame. They brought this on themselves and IMO, anything and everything that the P5 do is justified. They never asked for pieces of the P5 nor did they want it, the Avengers gave it to them. Simple.

Now all you Bendis'vengers fans need to just deal with what your people have done instead of trying to act like they've done nothing. Because the Avengers are just as guilty and villianous as the P5, if not more.

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#25 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

I still say the best way to end this event is to have a phoenix ten times bigger then the one the avengers broke up come screaming out of space grab both emma and scott during the final battle and then turn around and return to space just as quick.

The final Speech bubble "I Am and alway's well be Phoenix" just hint that the new phoenix host is wearing white and gold with red hair.

#26 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane: the road to hell is paved with good intentions. and also i think i already had this discussion with you as kainscion. copy paste that. and for the poor mutants why havent they returned the powers to any depowered mutant? and dont give the crap they're selling: we want to build a better world first (pff yeah where mutants are even more hated than now. usa is against you, foreign countries are against you, wakanda is shooting you on sight, even doc ock had a better shot at changing the world for the better).

#27 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7266 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@AgeofHurricane: the road to hell is paved with good intentions. and also i think i already had this discussion with you as kainscion. copy paste that. and for the poor mutants why havent they returned the powers to any depowered mutant? and dont give the crap they're selling: we want to build a better world first (pff yeah where mutants are even more hated than now. usa is against you, foreign countries are against you, wakanda is shooting you on sight, even doc ock had a better shot at changing the world for the better).

Waitaminute--you're Kain Scion ?

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#28 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane: mWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

#29 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7266 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@AgeofHurricane: mWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

DAMN IT!

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#30 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane: why does it matter?

#31 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (3453 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

LOL @ An unhinged few trying to root for the Avengers. Sorry, but that way of playing things is futile and asinine. You just can't do it.

It doesn't even matter if the P5 are villians or not, the fact of the matter is that none of their acts were ill-intentioned. This has been said time and again and i'll still repeat it: they were doing what was best for mutant kind and the world. Even before they acquired pieces of the PF, the X-Men (more like Cyclops) were nothing but saints in terms of trying to restore their race and save the world at the same damn time, where were the Avengers ? Drinking tea while speculating whether or not Norman Osbourn was worth the case, another thing that i've repeated. If anything, what this event has shown is that the Avengers are all too far up their own asses to realize what's at stake, they help when they deem fit and when they do, nothing good comes of it. What we're getting with AvX is HoM Vol.2, an event where Earth's super-powered heroes gather from far and wide to deal with a certain female who possesses power far greater than your wildest dreams, and, could possibly wipe out the entire world or universe if she wanted to.

What you people who are claiming the P5 to be villians are missing, is this:

If it wasn't for that retard of Earth's Idiotic Heroes, NONE of this would be happening. The Avengers, once again, could not leave well enough alone and decided to take matters into their own hands, but alas, they're never happy with the out-come, even if this time, THEY were the ones that caused it. Sorry, but as far as the P5 are concerned, the Avengers are the ones to blame. They brought this on themselves and IMO, anything and everything that the P5 do is justified. They never asked for pieces of the P5 nor did they want it, the Avengers gave it to them. Simple.

Now all you Bendis'vengers fans need to just deal with what your people have done instead of trying to act like they've done nothing. Because the Avengers are just as guilty and villianous as the P5, if not more.

Agreed. Has anyone else noticed that Bendis (and the creative teams behind the last few Big Events, as well) tends to have a problem of making both sides look like stupid, spoiled villains rather than multi-faceted people or heroes? It's a recurring problem. It's almost like he read "A Song of Ice and Fire" and uses Cersei, Tywin, Sansa, Tyrion and Catelyn as models for all of his characters.

BTW It was the actions of the Avengers that lead to Wanda going mentally unhinged, as well. Talk about a horrible track record with being kind to their own allies and teammates.

#32 Posted by Lvenger (18485 posts) - - Show Bio

@Yasiiii4 said:

@JohnnyWalker said:

@photowill404: oh yes they havent done anything except impose their where ever they want how they want and those that oppose them are removed from the board. lets see how their 'making the world a better place' plan holds up without the PF. they are more hated than ever now. piotr snapped for a second and wanted to destroy his own people. or how about namor destroying wakanda? what was the provocation there? how i love how some people on the vine are rooting for the poor mutants that do whatever they want. or how about emma ? she started killing people INNOCENT people and enslaving mutants to think happy thoughts or else.

@IllyanaRasputin: ir magik loosing the little mind she had. i hope she dies and never comes back.

you can blow on the PFs horn all you want but that doesnt make them innocent.

Completely agree, I have no idea how people are not seeing them as basically villains now

They're not innocent at all

Agreed.

#33 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7266 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@AgeofHurricane: why does it matter?

Damn you for making me do this.

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#34 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2116 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog said:

I agree that this event is just too focused on the Avengers and they are trying to make the X-Men look like the bad guys throughout this event. I wonder if the X-Men will ever come out of this event easily?

@JohnnyWalker said:

@Rabbitearsblog: newsflash THEY ARE THE BAD GUYS

lol

#35 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7266 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@AgeofHurricane said:

LOL @ An unhinged few trying to root for the Avengers. Sorry, but that way of playing things is futile and asinine. You just can't do it.

It doesn't even matter if the P5 are villians or not, the fact of the matter is that none of their acts were ill-intentioned. This has been said time and again and i'll still repeat it: they were doing what was best for mutant kind and the world. Even before they acquired pieces of the PF, the X-Men (more like Cyclops) were nothing but saints in terms of trying to restore their race and save the world at the same damn time, where were the Avengers ? Drinking tea while speculating whether or not Norman Osbourn was worth the case, another thing that i've repeated. If anything, what this event has shown is that the Avengers are all too far up their own asses to realize what's at stake, they help when they deem fit and when they do, nothing good comes of it. What we're getting with AvX is HoM Vol.2, an event where Earth's super-powered heroes gather from far and wide to deal with a certain female who possesses power far greater than your wildest dreams, and, could possibly wipe out the entire world or universe if she wanted to.

What you people who are claiming the P5 to be villians are missing, is this:

If it wasn't for that retard of Earth's Idiotic Heroes, NONE of this would be happening. The Avengers, once again, could not leave well enough alone and decided to take matters into their own hands, but alas, they're never happy with the out-come, even if this time, THEY were the ones that caused it. Sorry, but as far as the P5 are concerned, the Avengers are the ones to blame. They brought this on themselves and IMO, anything and everything that the P5 do is justified. They never asked for pieces of the P5 nor did they want it, the Avengers gave it to them. Simple.

Now all you Bendis'vengers fans need to just deal with what your people have done instead of trying to act like they've done nothing. Because the Avengers are just as guilty and villianous as the P5, if not more.

Agreed. Has anyone else noticed that Bendis (and the creative teams behind the last few Big Events, as well) tends to have a problem of making both sides look like stupid, spoiled villains rather than multi-faceted people or heroes? It's a recurring problem. It's almost like he read "A Song of Ice and Fire" and uses Cersei, Tywin, Sansa, Tyrion and Catelyn as models for all of his characters.

BTW It was the actions of the Avengers that lead to Wanda going mentally unhinged, as well. Talk about a horrible track record with being kind to their own allies and teammates.

This is why i need to read Bendis'vengers Disassembled.

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#36 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane: i still dont get it. you dont like debating?

#37 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7266 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@AgeofHurricane: i still dont get it. you dont like debating?

Given the fact that we've already had this argument, that, and the fact that i've repeated several times that Tony Stark and the Avengers caused this, debating with you again isn't exactly smart.

No offence or anything.

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#38 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane: end debate friendly?

#39 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

@photowill404 said:

@JohnnyWalker said:

@photowill404: oh yes they havent done anything except impose their where ever they want how they want and those that oppose them are removed from the board. lets see how their 'making the world a better place' plan holds up without the PF. they are more hated than ever now. piotr snapped for a second and wanted to destroy his own people. or how about namor destroying wakanda? what was the provocation there? how i love how some people on the vine are rooting for the poor mutants that do whatever they want. or how about emma ? she started killing people INNOCENT people and enslaving mutants to think happy thoughts or else.

@IllyanaRasputin: ir magik loosing the little mind she had. i hope she dies and never comes back.

you can blow on the PFs horn all you want but that doesnt make them innocent.

imposing their will?! they wanted to to make the world better and they did just that. without harming innocent people to do it. even iron man and Mr. Fantastic referenced the fact that they were doing way more good than harm. and as far as Piotr snapping, he lost his cool for a brief moment when his fellow mutants were questioning they good the P5 were doing all over the world. and Namor attacking Wakanda was due to him trying to save a mutant who was injured and being lied to by Emma. and as far as her killing, she killed a man who killed a mutant and didnt even bother to feel remorse for it. i will however give you that last part about her making mutants 'think happy thoughts' that is clearly her subconsciously evil self coming to the forefront. and they were DEFENDING themselves from the avengers or have you forgotten how the Avengers INVADED Utopia tried to KIDNAP Hope, caused the split of the Phoenix in the first place, then went on to try and ASSASSINATE Cyclops who just sends Rulk back ALIVE but scarred.

Namor didn't need to save anyone. He put her in more harms way then anyone. Transonic if Injured would have been fine, she's in freaking Wakanda. And Namor made his intentions clear, when talking to T'challa. So this excuse really doesn't fly. And he is hopefully going to pay for it.

#40 Posted by Saren (25332 posts) - - Show Bio

Yup, the X-Men are still totally the misunderstood good guys of this story. It's still totally the Avengers' fault that Namor went batsh!t crazy and drowned half of Wakanda, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that Magik created her very own Limbo gulag with imprisonment measures that would make the dudes locked up at Guantanamo feel lucky, it's still the Avengers' fault that Colossus came close to destroying the Jean Grey school in a fit of rage, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that the P5 transitioned into becoming so tyrannical that even other prominent mutants like Magneto, Rogue, Iceman and Kitty think they should be stopped.

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#41 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7266 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Yup, the X-Men are still totally the misunderstood good guys of this story. It's still totally the Avengers' fault that Namor went batsh!t crazy and drowned half of Wakanda, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that Magik created her very own Limbo gulag with imprisonment measures that would make the dudes locked up at Guantanamo feel lucky, it's still the Avengers' fault that Colossus came close to destroying the Jean Grey school in a fit of rage, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that the P5 transitioned into becoming so tyrannical that even other prominent mutants like Magneto, Rogue, Iceman and Kitty think they should be stopped.

Thanks for confirming.

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#42 Posted by Saren (25332 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

@CitizenBane said:

Yup, the X-Men are still totally the misunderstood good guys of this story. It's still totally the Avengers' fault that Namor went batsh!t crazy and drowned half of Wakanda, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that Magik created her very own Limbo gulag with imprisonment measures that would make the dudes locked up at Guantanamo feel lucky, it's still the Avengers' fault that Colossus came close to destroying the Jean Grey school in a fit of rage, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that the P5 transitioned into becoming so tyrannical that even other prominent mutants like Magneto, Rogue, Iceman and Kitty think they should be stopped.

Thanks for confirming.

Always welcome.

Moderator Online
#43 Edited by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Yup, the X-Men are still totally the misunderstood good guys of this story. It's still totally the Avengers' fault that Namor went batsh!t crazy and drowned half of Wakanda, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that Magik created her very own Limbo gulag with imprisonment measures that would make the dudes locked up at Guantanamo feel lucky, it's still the Avengers' fault that Colossus came close to destroying the Jean Grey school in a fit of rage, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that the P5 transitioned into becoming so tyrannical that even other prominent mutants like Magneto, Rogue, Iceman and Kitty think they should be stopped.

Im glad you admit that the avengers are assholes.

#44 Posted by Saren (25332 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_29 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Yup, the X-Men are still totally the misunderstood good guys of this story. It's still totally the Avengers' fault that Namor went batsh!t crazy and drowned half of Wakanda, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that Magik created her very own Limbo gulag with imprisonment measures that would make the dudes locked up at Guantanamo feel lucky, it's still the Avengers' fault that Colossus came close to destroying the Jean Grey school in a fit of rage, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that the P5 transitioned into becoming so tyrannical that even other prominent mutants like Magneto, Rogue, Iceman and Kitty think they should be stopped.

Im glad you admit that the avengers are assholes.

Riiiiiiight. It's not the Phoenix Five's fault that they're tyrants, it's the Avengers' fault for providing them the means to be tyrants. Even though the Avengers aren't coercing or influencing or in any way manipulating the actions of the P5, somehow, somehow, they're responsible for all of this! Because as we all know, if a man is shot dead, it's not the shooter's fault, it's the fault of the man who gave the shooter the gun.

I swear, the arguments of X-fans grow more and more desperate everyday. I'm sure it must suck that Marvel is turning your favorite characters into villains for the sake of a horrible story, but let's not kid ourselves here. It's pretty clear WHO is being portrayed as the villain of the piece here. The mutants.

Moderator Online
#45 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@x_29 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Yup, the X-Men are still totally the misunderstood good guys of this story. It's still totally the Avengers' fault that Namor went batsh!t crazy and drowned half of Wakanda, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that Magik created her very own Limbo gulag with imprisonment measures that would make the dudes locked up at Guantanamo feel lucky, it's still the Avengers' fault that Colossus came close to destroying the Jean Grey school in a fit of rage, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that the P5 transitioned into becoming so tyrannical that even other prominent mutants like Magneto, Rogue, Iceman and Kitty think they should be stopped.

Im glad you admit that the avengers are assholes.

Riiiiiiight. It's not the Phoenix Five's fault that they're tyrants, it's the Avengers' fault for providing them the means to be tyrants. Even though the Avengers aren't coercing or influencing or in any way manipulating the actions of the P5, somehow, somehow, they're responsible for all of this! Because as we all know, if a man is shot dead, it's not the shooter's fault, it's the fault of the man who gave the shooter the gun.

I swear, the arguments of X-fans grow more and more desperate everyday. I'm sure it must suck that Marvel is turning your favorite characters into villains for the sake of a horrible story, but let's not kid ourselves here. It's pretty clear WHO is being portrayed as the villain of the piece here. The mutants.

It is pretty clear that you do not like the x-men at all and you are just here to troll. Oh and yeah, the avengers started all of this :)

#46 Posted by Saren (25332 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_29 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@x_29 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Yup, the X-Men are still totally the misunderstood good guys of this story. It's still totally the Avengers' fault that Namor went batsh!t crazy and drowned half of Wakanda, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that Magik created her very own Limbo gulag with imprisonment measures that would make the dudes locked up at Guantanamo feel lucky, it's still the Avengers' fault that Colossus came close to destroying the Jean Grey school in a fit of rage, it's still totally the Avengers' fault that the P5 transitioned into becoming so tyrannical that even other prominent mutants like Magneto, Rogue, Iceman and Kitty think they should be stopped.

Im glad you admit that the avengers are assholes.

Riiiiiiight. It's not the Phoenix Five's fault that they're tyrants, it's the Avengers' fault for providing them the means to be tyrants. Even though the Avengers aren't coercing or influencing or in any way manipulating the actions of the P5, somehow, somehow, they're responsible for all of this! Because as we all know, if a man is shot dead, it's not the shooter's fault, it's the fault of the man who gave the shooter the gun.

I swear, the arguments of X-fans grow more and more desperate everyday. I'm sure it must suck that Marvel is turning your favorite characters into villains for the sake of a horrible story, but let's not kid ourselves here. It's pretty clear WHO is being portrayed as the villain of the piece here. The mutants.

It is pretty clear that you do not like the x-men at all and you are just here to troll. Oh and yeah, the avengers started all of this :)

Whatever you say.

Moderator Online
#47 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7266 posts) - - Show Bio

There was no trolling...

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#48 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane: @x_29: Hey, no worries guys because given the track record that Marvel has for disregarding canon for the convience sake;I'm sure that the ramifications of this event will be forgotten in the next two years. Oh, he!!, who am I'm kidding? Make it six months when the NEXT Marvel event begins!

#49 Posted by ElGUitarist (29 posts) - - Show Bio

-The Avengers came to take Hope "into custody". The difference between "in custody" and "kidnapp"? The U.S. government says it's ok. And we all know that whatever they say is the right thing, amirite? (CIVIL WAR/REGISTRATION ACT).

-Mutants are a dying species; all they wanted was a chance to rebuild and use the PF for rebirth. Avengers wanted to take that away from them without any discussion. PF has proven destructive... but wasn't that before anyone know what it was and was capable of? It is also very much capable of rebirth, and in the hands of people who've dealt extensively with the PF...? Good job at not even discussing it, Avengers.

-P5 were doing a good job at a better world. Avengers didn't like it and attacked them on Utopia for a second time. THAT is what started the P5 going after the Avengers. They were after the Avengers because they were threatening all the good the have done for the world. Note: the world, not just mutant kind.

-Emma and Namor have a history of not being the best of good guys. The PF just brought that out to corrupt them further (in fact, Namor was tricked by Emma to attack Wakanda). Neither of these two would have the PF if it wasn't for the Avengers attempting to meddle with a matter that was the X-Men's to handle, as well as provoking them after the fact. It should have gone to Hope, someone without the villainous history of Emma/Namor/Ilyana.

-You also cannot judge the actions of the X-Men based on the actions of Emma. She is the one in that scene acting like a dictator, influencing Namor to do massive harm, etc etc.

-None of the P5 were in training for the day that they would receive the PF. Hope was. The PF would have gone to someone who had been training for it all her life, while under the supervision of people who have dealt with the PF in the past. Instead, the Avengers meddle, causing the PF to go into hosts who were not prepared for it, and were a decent chuck on the group who have dealt with the PF in the past (the ones who were to supervise Hope when she got the PF).

#50 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

@One_Eye said:

@AgeofHurricane: @x_29: Hey, no worries guys because given the track record that Marvel has for disregarding canon for the convience sake;I'm sure that the ramifications of this event will be forgotten in the next two years. Oh, he!!, who am I'm kidding? Make it six months when the NEXT Marvel event begins!

Avengers vs X-men 2: Electric Boogaloo

or

Avengers vs Applebees.

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