This one has been bugging me for years.

X-Men (and Spider-Man) are the reason as to why I got into the Marvel Universe. For a while they were my favorite team and to date they still occupy a unique position in the Marvel U so I have to ask... why do some people want the X-Men to be placed in a separate universe from the rest of the Marvel U?

I get that ever since Chris Claremont's defining run the X-Men have indeed mostly existed in a vacuum with many heroes not facing the same level of hate as mutants and things like Genoshia being ignored by the Marvell U at large... buuuuut I always thought it was just lazy writing. To me the idea of the X-Men being in a vacuum was more of other writers and even the X-Men writers not taking into account the idea of the larger universe outside of their own books.

Though I dislike Avengers vs. X-Men, it at least called to attention some of the hypocrisy going on in-universe and again while I don't like Uncanny Avengers as executed, I loved the idea of actually trying to bridge the 2 halves of the Marvel U and still do. IMO actually trying to remember and recognize that the Avengers and X-Men parts of this world are not mutually exclusive and face the consequences (say Captain America being attacked by Anti-Mutant extremists, or Cyclops leading a special strike force against Kang given the X-Men's propensity for time travel adventures) is a better answer then just copping out and making the X-Men completely stand alone.

Integration (no pun intended) of mutants into other books would encourage thought, social commentary of racism vs. legitimate threats and misaimed racism (IE, Spider-Man being mistaken as a mutant and embracing it) just seems like it opens far more interesting options and stories. Granted this stuff should still be predominantly handled in the X-Men books themselves but don't have other heroes just ignore the issues constantly presented. Plus why deny the crossover fodder?

Those are just my thoughts. What are your thoughts? Why do you think the X-Men SHOULD or SHOULDN'T be thrown out of the Marvel Universe?

(PS-Any argument involving movie rights will be ignored on my part. I'm dealing with comics here not movies. Just FYI)

Ok, i'll take this on. Just remember that unlike Spiderman or FF...the X-Men make up a huge portion of Marvel's overall world

From a writing perspective: I don't find it lazy. Let's say I'm writing X-Men and I have this groundbreaking storyline I want to do where the X-Men take on Mr. Sinister who has shape shifted into the Governor of New York. He's going to add mutant managing robots all around the city in order to disguise the fact that he's kidnapping an experimenting on mutants. At the end of the story i want the X-Men to decide to leave the country because even though they beat Sinister other states are starting to agree with the mutant managing robots idea. It's going to start a whole new era of X-Men where they operate in international waters and show up in different places randomly to save an relocate outcast mutants in this and other countries. I like the idea, everyone else likes the direction and its going to drive my run for the next 3 years. But you, as writer of "Luke Cage and the Super Avengers" think "well, the Super Avengers would never allow that to happen". But you're already 2 years into a Luke Cage and Gwen Stacy love story with a Green Goblin/Ultron threat looming in the background so you can't just change directions so we both focus on my plot. I'm doing something that's going to set the pace for the entire X-Men/X-Factor/X-Force umbrella so I really don't have time to do a crossover and get enough development into each of the characters of my books. So were stuck. But following the logic of sharing the universe then I'm the one who can't do my idea because it looks bad that the Super Avengers didnt show up and say something when the X-Men were leaving the country or didn't drop everything else as this huge thing is going on in the world. It's not fair that you should have to take time out of your story to do an issue on Genosha (which isnt relevant to your books) because some one decided to blow it up, and isn't fair that i can't blow it up because it would indirectly effect someone else's story.

The fact is because of the large size and diversity of the X-Men Franchise in order for things to really matter they have to be world changing. But if we have to bounce things off of the bigger Marvel U then the X-Men aren't only a slave to their own huge franchise but all the other ones as well. Spiderman is one guy if something big happens to him you can write if off as the week the Avengers weren't in NY. The X-Men are 3-5 teams with different focuses, so just to get them all on the same page means that something big has to happen to attract their attention. It's why the current way things works is best. We deal with things when we get a chance too. If someone blows up a mutant country to get the X-Men rallied then we'll deal with it in a year during the company crossover and have Emma Frost call you hypocrites while Tony Stark points out the 100's of people you saved on the way to the meeting.


Now should the X-Men be thrown out of the Marvel Universe?

Eh....hard to say.

It wouldn't be the same for one thing. And despite the large number of people who read X-Men and nothing else, even they would admit that it would hurt the X-Men to not be apart of a larger world. The X-Men would instantly appear darker because have their members have been black ops killers, or mass murders. The team has been somewhere in the gray for years. Not as noble, pristine and pure as the Avengers appear but not as dark and evil as some of the corners of their own series can be (X-Force, Cable, Wolverine, etc) the X-Men are heores but only as a consequence of trying to prove the merits of Xavier to the world. In reality the X-Men need to be apart of the universe where their are a group of people dedicated to being superheroes so they can be dedicated to being teachers, students, activist, heroes and revolutionaries. If they didn't have that then they would either be forced to become the "Super-team" that even in the 60s they rarely were and damage the complexity of their own metaphor, or to try to maintain their ambiguity in the gray scale of heroism. They need the Marvel U.


Now does that mean we should integrate more X-Men characters and ideas into the main Marvel U.?

In my opinion, NO!
The X-Men as a franchise is interesting because it can go into so many different directions. For every Phoenix story there is a time travel story, for every time travel story theres an Apocalypse, for every Apocalypse there's a Hell Fire Club and for every Hell Fire Club there's a mutant hate group or Super Sentinel. AND YET STILL we run low on content and stories because of the size of the X-Men. No matter how you look at it the X-Men would lose something by not being the only ones who deal with their issues. There entire story is about the never ending struggle for equality, the worst thing you can do is to degrade that by having Captain America help them out. Either he succeeds and we show legitimate progress(the worst thing you can do when writing about struggle) which means were nearly accomplishing the goal of equality and the end of the story; Or Cap' fails and you lose credibility because the most beloved figure in the Marvel Universe can't even get people to stop disliking mutants.

Now when it comes to sharing characters.....things are different.

For Storm, Wolverine, and Beast to become Avengers is interesting. It allows for the X-Men to be represented and to be apart of the other sides drama while mingling with the center piece of the World.

But the downside is that no one wants an Avengers Presents- X-Men. So when you have Wolverine answering to Captain America only to go home and have all of the X-Men answer to him and Beast (another Avenger) it creates an image of inferiority when the X-Men once numbered greater, more powerful and efficient numbers then the Avengers. They may be perfect for their spots in Avengers books, but their presence actually damaged the home books because of their position of leadership their. The same would be true if Reed Richards was on the team to be Cap's helper but otherwise wasn't treated as being on the level of mainstay Avengers. You just don't wanna hurt the home books indirectly.

For characters like Cannonball its where fanboyism and bit of nitpicking come in because their not on the same level as the previous group. Cannonball wasn't built up or designed to contribute to the Avengers, FF, Spiderman or anything else. He was an X-Character and i'd like to see him give back to the X-Men Franchise especially at times when the team is in disarray in and out of Universe. So everytime I see him in an Avengers book, i can't help but think about how he could be put to use in the X-Men or a X related title. It's sefish, but i'd rather him fail then help something else get better when the X-Books aren't doing their best.

so yea...basically keeping things the way they are is my opinion, because it works and their isn't another solution that improves upon it without degrading some other aspect of the MU

I think the reason why some people want X-Men to be in their own universe is because as you said, many writers don't seem to take advantage of actually letting the other superheroes team up with the X-Men, even though it seems that Marvel is trying to fix that now, but it's sometimes written pretty terribly. Also, the X-Men has a lot of characters in their universe and it tends to get a bit confusing for fans of the X-Men and the Marvel Universe like for example, fans would be questioning about why Wolverine is in the Avengers and the X-Men at the same time, when it would be much easier for him to be in just one team.

It's no coincidence that the best X-Men stories are isolated from the rest of the MU. The minority metaphor, one of the most compelling aspects of the X-Men, falls to shambles when other super powered humans are involved. Why are the Avengers and Fantastic Four beloved by the public while mutants are feared and hated? No body has ever given a good answer because there simply isn't one; hatred and bigotry aren't that selective.

While I'd rather the X-Men weren't taken out of the 616, I'm not wholly opposed to it either. To me, they're the most compelling, relatable, and relevant property that Marvel owns; everything else is just conceptually inferior. So if any property deserves to flourish in their own universe without being mired by garbage events and lesser characters, it's the X-Men. The only downside for me would be the loss of their rich continuity and the character regression that would undoubtedly take place.

To be honest, I just want good stories. I don't care all that much how we get them.

yup

While you bring up the island of Genosha--which is a very good point by the way, I would suggest you thumb through the Claremont books again. There is plenty of stuff that acknowledges the intricacies of the super human/mutants subject....

For instance, Forge's neutralizer gun, which is subsequently used on Storm was originally designed to nullify Aliens but Henry Peter Gyrich had planned to use it on super humans in general if any of them got out of hand...including the Avengers. Also, in stories like Days of Future Past and the two stories where the New Mutants travel into alternate futures the Sentinels are said to start killing all super humans after they finish targeting mutants, and in the other reality, mutants and super humans live together in peace, there is the fact that Nightcrawler debates and questions the X-Mens existence if there are just super hero teams out there being acknowledged for good deeds and not what they are, Valerie Cooper and the National Superhuman Commisons.....there is a large portion of Claremonts work dedicated to acknowledging the fundamental disparities between mutants and the rest of the Marvel Universe.

Mutants are usually targeted because humans fear they are being replaced by people that can do extraordinary things, and the fact that a lot of mutants manifest their powers when they are young kids do not know how to use their powers and could accidentally harm others or themselves.

I disagree with this. Human social constructs like bigotry and racism are convoluted and silly. Look at a homophobic male for instance, not a religous extremist...but your average male that doesn't like the idea of homosexuality, he has now way of knowing if someone is gay by looking at him, so he would have to have someone tell him that someone else was that way, even if he became friends with him first only to find out later, his hate would seem like a misplaced obligation.....also factor in probably that large a percentage of males that are uncomfortable with male homosexuality have no problem with watching pornographic material of two women being intimate....as long as the women are attractive probably, which is homosexuality, right??You could also look at people that claim to be "animal lovers" when it comes to domesticated animals like dogs are cats but then could care less when cows and pigs are inhumanely slaughtered in droves for food. That is being selectively compassionate, isn't it?

I am not trying to turn this into a social justice post but I am trying to convey a point here, that humanity, their complex emotions, and its ideas of racism and bigotry can be contradictory, random, and overall, just stupid. Thats why it works so beautifully in the Marvel Universe.....

In the Marvel Universe lots of super heroes are hated as much as the X-Men--the Hulk, Spider-Man, people have been shown to be afraid of Thor and other Asgardians as well.

I agree with this the most though.

@sprior93 said:

And now start 92 minutes of applause.

I think there are strong arguments on both sides when it comes to this. I think more separation in that you don't have so much mixing would be best. Its aggravating to have Cannonball and Sunspot portrayed as thinking the Avengers are the big leagues when they haven't so called made the varsity team of the Xmen. While I wouldn't want to throw away all the history, I do think the Xmen should stick their premises more and deal with the Avengers less. This way when they do come together, its special. Having Beast and maybe a few others a very few as reserve Avengers could be OK but they should be used very little. And honestly I never thought Wolverine fit he was just there to boost sales.

Agreed.....also they should stop taking X-Men leaders and having them knock up Avengers. Seriously Havok and Cannonball within 6 months?

Agreed. This whole post is pretty much gold.

@cattlebattle: I can agree with most of what you said. Though I do have a bit of a different opinion when it comes to social stuff that although it's difficult not to go there because......well I guess just suffice it to say hate is hate and hate is wrong. Unless some terrorist over some zealot activist is killing innocent kids, then hate can be justified in my opinion. I dont think we have to agree on things and just because there's disagreement doesn't mean there's hatred, we dont have to hate and neither should there be a begging for acceptance. I mean if you are happy then do you your thing and create your own who needs approval. I also really hate to lump racism in with the other stuff because I really see it as different and I sort of take a little offense to people trying to say that what happened to Jews in Germany, or Native Americans in America, or slavery and segregation for African Americans is basically the same as two men or two women not being able to get married. And maybe Im over-simplifying it a bit. But each platform deserves its own spotlight and shouldn't be lumped in together since its really an injustice to all issues. Sorry for getting off track there... But I think the social premise of the Xmen vs the rest of the Marvel U is ok if explained well which it has not been, at least not lately. I also think its a little over-exaggerated to a certain extent when it comes to the whole mutant vs human/superhuman thing and which is likeable or not.

Again this is why I can see relevancy to both arguments. Although Civil War was ok, discussions like this make me wish that more had been done there. In fact AVX would never have had to exist or could have been re-imagined in Civil War.

At this point, it's the fans who are making me hang on to the X-Men. The above posts are why.

0.0

Nah, minority metaphor needs to be revisioned. They're feared because they SHOULD be feared. They're hated because that's what envy does to people. What about these angles NOT being dismissed or overlooked?

But who am I to say right? "woe is us" is so much better.

Hey, thanks man.

Well, my whole outlying point is that bigotry and racism don't always make sense and is a fundamentally flawed concept....that is exactly why it works so well in the Marvel U, I believe. That's why when people say things like "how do people in the Marvel U know the difference between a superhuman and a mutant...that's dumb" its kind of a perfect allegory for hatred in the real world, it's just paranoia, fear and the human reaction to not like peoples that are different from you.....it's dumb.

The problem with addressing it these days and why some new readers think it's a stupid overall concept is because the writers largely ignore it. Back in the 1980s, which I reserve was the best time for Marvel creatively, the writers kept to having the X-Men be a sort of "grey area" team. They were heroes but they weren't always trusted, them being mutants led them to them being targeted specifically by the government, which then led them to doing things like breaking into the pentagon or fighting the government and them being enemies of the state. During stories like the Secret Wars the X-Men side with Magneto in their own little group, the Avengers have also battled the X-Men for harboring criminals like Rogue and Magneto, the X-Men have also berated other super hero teams for not assisting in things like the Mutant Massacre, they have had issues with the Fantastic Four and Johnny Storm has at times been written to not think much of mutants.

These days there isn't really a mutant metaphor at all. It's just something that's supposed to be there because of previous writers so people are forced to acknowledge it. The X-Men are just another super hero team with lots of interchangeable members. A story like "Decimation" could have been quite a significant story but it was just really a way to get rid of a lot of excess characters because Quesada will Quesada.

@cattlebattle: Dont these lazy writers just piss you off!!! They miss such significant themes and developments all for the stupid quips and putting the same old few characters in a book with the Phoenix and time-travel oh and "if that doesn't work lets just invent some more kid mutants and cast magical spells all day so we can just change whatever's come before us."

Sometimes its sickening to think about the missed opportunities

DC is better

I'm too far gone at this point, lol. I honestly have not been able to take the X-Men seriously for years....it's just the same old concepts recycled over and over with the same old villains and the same old characters doing the same things with silly deaths and resurrections and writers that seem to not even care about paying attention continuity or telling good stories. The X-Men of today are just parodies of what once was in my opinion.

DC does seem to be more about quality over quantity and the only characters that have 15 spin offs are Bats and Supes and those books are usually self contained. So, I would agree.

I like the fact the two universe integrate and are around each other. I always view the Avengers as superhero made by man's own hand THUS are more acceptable then say you carrying the ability to make youre children look like an insect or something worse. The lucky ones are the normal looking one.

Then again we have the Avengers who is more militant and deal with the big overall cosmetic threat while the X-Men deal with the more down to earth domestic one. One emphasis on family, the other emphasis on unity despite being from all different walks of life.

AVX was my favorite book up to date because it highlighted all of those things. If they were such great heroes why have the Avengers done nothing about the mutant hating problem? Captain America reply? He thought they wanted to be left alone. Did he drop the ball on Genosha? Maybe not, that might have happened during Disassembled.

X-Men shouldn't have it's own universe, it would cheapen everything as a whole if it did. Likewise with Avengers. Already making so that Wanda and Quicksilver are Inhumans is kinda pissing me off.

Its good to see large majority of the X-fan fanbase in unanimous decision to remove the X-men out of the Marvel U. and have them live in their own continuity title self contained. Really its just been a horrible mess, many Avengers fans like myself hate having Cannonball and Sunspot on the team especially that god awful Uncanny Avengers team to save face, please mutant problems are an X-men problem why else do you see X-writer only having the X-men handle mutant crisis. Not to mention the horrible characterization I firmly believe that Cap and Wolverine should always hate each other like Flash and Green Arrow differing politics and ethics.

Its for the best on both sides really the X-men will return to their form of glory of isolation and self contained stories and the Marvel U. will have no involvement in mutant affairs. Everybody wins. Those that can't accept it tough shit, I have no interest in another pointless rivalry battles or the X-men going on their effing high horse about Genosha as if thats the only major disaster that happen round the earth, Kang Dynasty anyone. So yes I hope Marvel does place the X-men in an Earth 2 style book.

This comment is the equivalent of two roommates agreeing that they can't stay in the same apartment and then just as one is packing their bags to leave the other goes an starts telling people how he kicked him out. Lol it's like "lets not rub it in."

Really though, i do think isolation is best, but not a completely seperate Universe. The X-Men need the other heroes existence and adventures to strengthen their own perspective of non acceptance.

Big Cosmetic threat ? Eyeliner gone wrong ? Bad plastic surgery ? Evil Make-up ?

Worse then all of the above... Inconsistent ARTWORK!

One day they can look like this :

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130901040926/marveldatabase/images/d/da/018_of_x23.jpg

and the next, they look like this!

http://www.hypergeeky.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/600xNxJean-Grey-Scott-Summers-Emma-Frost-Scott-Summers-Eva-Bell-and-Magneto-in-Uncanny-X-Men-12.png.pagespeed.ic.Mfk70DQlJP.jpg

Well Joss Whedon recently said this...

“The X-Men was the next evolution of the Marvel paradigm back when I was reading it. And, you know, because of the metaphor — they were dealing with these oppressed people, so there really wasn’t a gender bias in the books. As soon as Marvel Girl became Phoenix, the most powerful person in the universe, everything was on the table. It was all multicultural and there was no real question of gender in the book. Now, you can look at it and say, ‘Well, this attitude is dated.’ I’m sure that’s the case if I went back to them. But the fact is it was kind of a utopia. I didn’t know it at the time, because I just assumed that’s how things should be done."

It speaks volumes that the guy who is essentially responsible for making the Avengers a household name drew his inspiration from the X-men. It just goes to show you that the X-men have a pretty good track record of compelling Marvel to step it up when it comes to storytelling and themes. Comics didn't really cover social issues before then nor did they explore the intricacies of the group dynamics anywhere near as much as the X-men did. If you read retro Avengers, which I have, it's visually quite stunning but it doesn't have the same complex, emotional underpinning the X-men would have in the 70's. The Avengers were somewhat like the JLA in that they were all solo heroes who came together for one big, fantabulous superteam power-up. But notice that when the X-men were revived in the mid-70's it really lit a fire under their asses to start including more diverse characters, lesser-known characters with their own complex subplots that intersected and created a family-like relationship between the group members. They became a team, not a bunch of superior superbeings here to beat up space robots and aliens.

Lately I've been going into the whole Magneto paternity thing because it just tugs at my rage strings big time. But in that ranting, I've stated a few times that the writing that went into fleshing out Magneto's backstory ended up giving Wanda and Pietro so much more material and made them so much more iconic and prominent. A lot of other characters from that era like Mockingbird, Falcon, Hercules, Jocasta, Photon, and Tigra were thrust into limbo or just made to be very peripheral afterward because the people handling the Avengers at Marvel didn't take them at face value. Whereas under the X-men titles, they would take small characters and BLOW THEM UP, they'd become iconic or at least very popular through just quality writing.

I'm not sure the Avengers movies could last as long as the X-men have using the same canon because of this disparity. Cable is a quite popular character and he has yet to get the cinematic treatment, same with Psylocke. They've hardly exploited Gambit or Deadpool who are also hugely popular then there are characters with cult followings like Magik or Jamie Madrox or Monet. The movies could go on and on and on and on and it's not because of some crazy brilliant marketing strategy or some film executive, it was just good writing that produced hundreds of characters.

Point is, when the X-men were relaunched, 40 fricken years ago, they never imagined that they would be as big as they are or that they would bring in this new era of superhero movies in general. This was before movie rights and licensing came into the picture, they had no idea there would be any profit outside of the comics and maybe action figures (which they hardly even had then). But because they allowed the X-men to be the X-men and to be managed by talented and well taken care of, it ended up being a fantastic investment that enhanced a lot of other titles.

So it would be epically stupid and potentially damning if Marvel tried to, in any way, disassociate with the X-men or cast them aside in any significant way seeing as how they innovated them. Yes, they are fictional characters but it only gives them more power because they are limitless and widely received, very accessible too. There's no revising it, Marvel is stuck with the X-men and it's a blessing.

My answer is both yes and no, it all depends on what Marvel is planning for X-Men and if they are thinking about giving a new direction to the mutant community..

I think the current state of x-men/mutants doesnt fit into marvel universe or earth-616 because of these illogical situations:

1-the neverending mutant hate and racism is too unrealistic. Even during World War 2 random people or civilians didnt throw rocks or bottles or sth else to show their hatred to jewish in the streets, and yet in x-men comics even though its f*cking 2015 in a modern city like new york we see ppl harrasing/humiliating mutants in the middle of street, thats absurd..

2-lets say we are ok with this extreme hatred towards mutants, i could understand that only if there werent other super powered humans like Captain America or Luke Cage or etc..i mean whats the big deal if someone was born with super powers or gained them later in their life via a super soldier serum or lab experiment? why hate Rogue but adore Human Torch? both are super powered, both are 'superior' to us, so why its a big deal if one of them born like this and the other has became like this later in his/her life? how they even know, lets say Spider Woman, isnt a mutant? did she reveal her secret identity and told the whole world how she gained her powers? no? then why dont people hate her? why not throw her garbage whenever they see her and shout 'mutie mutie' bla ? thats dumb...it would be logical if all meta humans were feared, or x-men were the only meta humans in the world.

3-The idea of an earth with two races/species (human and mutant) is too unrealistic, a 10-15 million mutant population sounds dumb because we see that population in only X-men comics..when u read x-men, in every corner u see a mutant,almost anybody can be a mutant, but u read Iron Man or Thor or etc, it is as if there arent mutants among people, just X-Men and thats all...

These are some main readons i think X-Men should be seperated from regular marvel universe, cause it doesnt fit in this way. But dont get me wrong, i want X-Men to remain in MU, but some changes should be made so it can fit in, i will write about it later to rest my fingers and keyboard...

I can refute all of this.

This is not right. Hatred that was around beck in the days of WW2 is still prevalent today. Antisemitism, homophobia, racism, nationalism......all still exists till this day and seems to be perpetual. If you don't think people are throwing things at Jews in the streets then got to Palestine.....where that kind of stuff happens all the time, and in a lot of cases people are throwing explosive things at them unfortunately.

We live in a world where hatred is so extreme that black and white will hate people of their own race because their skin tone is a bit darker than their own or have different gentrification......so, it's not a stretch that people would still hate mutants within the Marvel U.

The difference between mutants and super humans is that mutants manifest their powers unexpectedly at a young age and usually don't know how to control them and usually put others in danger with them. The difference between Rogue and the Human Torch is that when Human Torch first got his super powers...he saved the city from the Mole Man and a giant mud monster.....when Rogue first got her powers, she put some innocent kind in a coma.

As for the public knowing and not knowing who is a mutant.....there has been several depictions of the public in all sorts of stories, whether it was Calremonts work, or Simonsons, or Byrnes or Niciezas, that show that a lot of the general public just isn't to fond of the super human community altogether. They usually destroy every place they go.

Iron Man doesn't even have any super powers and there has been stories where the government was trying to get their hands on his plans to build an Iron Man suit. The "Armor Wars" arc had him battling the worlds governments because they had gotten their hands on prototypes of his armors, he was thrown off the Avengers after that arc actually and considered kind of a criminal. Additionally, Hulk is feared and not liked by the general public, neither is Thor, Spider-Man, Punisher, Blade, people are usually scared of the Thing, Silver Surfer--none of those character are mutants.

Thats kind of a silly example. Look at it like this, white anglo saxon caucasians are a minority.....there is actually more black people in the world, yet most of the characters that Thor and Iron Man interact with are white people......do you get my example here? Just because there is only a certain type of people interacting with someone, doesn't mean other people aren't living in the world in abundance at the same time. The X-Men are surrounded by mutants because they are mutants, and mutants appear quite often and interact quite a bit with the rest of the Marvel U. Thor and Iron Man have been staple Avengers along with Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, who are both mutants, Sue and Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four have a son that's a mutant, it has long been debated whether or not Falcon, Captain Americas partner is a mutant...just because they aren't constant, doesn't mean they aren't existent.

@cattlebattle: Please refute then, will be glad to hear different opinions

I did, read the rest of the post, lol.

@cattlebattle said: This is not right. Hatred that was around beck in the days of WW2 is still prevalent today. Antisemitism, homophobia, racism, nationalism......all still exists till this day and seems to be perpetual. If you don't think people are throwing things at Jews in the streets then got to Palestine.....where that kind of stuff happens all the time, and in a lot of cases people are throwing explosive things at them unfortunately.

Thats so true, but i guess you missed my point when i mentioned there is an unrealistic exaggeration.. you even prove my point a little, by giving Palestine as an example, cause what i find nonsense is this kind of hatred and racism happens in a civiziled modern city like New York...u compare new york and palestine? duh..

You say Thor, Thing, Silver Surfer etc are also feared, but i really dont get that feeling when i read comics which includes those characters, u cant tell me the public behaviour towards them and mutants are the same, which should be same in my opinion cause just like you said they destroy wherever they go..

@cattlebattle said :Thats kind of a silly example. Look at it like this, white anglo saxon caucasians are a minority.....there is actually more black people in the world, yet most of the characters that Thor and Iron Man interact with are white people......do you get my example here? Just because there is only a certain type of people interacting with someone, doesn't mean other people aren't living in the world in abundance at the same time. The X-Men are surrounded by mutants because they are mutants, and mutants appear quite often and interact quite a bit with the rest of the Marvel U. Thor and Iron Man have been staple Avengers along with Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, who are both mutants, Sue and Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four have a son that's a mutant, it has long been debated whether or not Falcon, Captain Americas partner is a mutant...just because they aren't constant, doesn't mean they aren't existent.

Yeah i totally get your example there :) i am just telling you the feeling i get when i read a X-Men comic, i dont buy this ''Mutants are a worldwide problem'' stuff when i dont see those kind of problems in other comics, i guess thats why even Captain America admitted they overlooked the mutant problem at the end of Avengers vs X-Men story arc, and Marvel tried to combine mutant universe with the rest of the MU with comics like Uncanny Avengers where we see mutants/super hero team ups more

I think that one of the bad things about separating the X-men from the Marvel Universe is that the Marvel Universe would lose some sense of diversity. What I loved about the X-men was the fact that most members of the team came from different countries and cultures and even though the Avengers have some diverse members, it's not to the same extent as the X-men and I feel that we wouldn't be to learn about the superhero world through different perspectives if the X-men were separated from this universe.

Reading through Ultimate Comics X-men made me realize that it's not about "stupidity of irrational racism" but about inability to let mutant metaphor be anything else than oppressed minority.

Because when you have a Special Advisor to the president on Superhuman and Mutant Affairs officially and unambiguously state in front of the whole country that mutants ARE Governmental product, and people still hunt/kill/all-the-classics mutants you have to understand - it's not about zealotry, it's about plot device.

@overseer: I agree with most of your points and other that are aligned along with yours.

The Xmen comics have been in a limbo state with exception of a few Arcs in a few Books that were actually good. Honestly to help relaunch thier books the editions and writers need to escape the Vaccum the Xmen are in and start to incorporate them as a whole in Marvel U affairs....mutants I fear are being over run by the Inhumans who marvel editors are pushing heavy right now because of the upcoming movie....Wolverine is popular so is Storm and Rogue...Even cyclops The editors needs to start developing some interesting plots where mutants aren't just located in Xbooks but in others and really jump into the politics of being a mutant a super hero mutant or a mutant villain

It's for all those reasons that I only read X-Men issues...