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    X-Men

    Team » X-Men appears in 13419 issues.

    The X-Men are a superhero team of mutants founded by Professor Charles Xavier. They are dedicated to helping fellow mutants and sworn to protect a world that fears and hates them.

    The X-Men Faulty Premise

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    Liberty

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    Edited By Liberty

     Great Art
     Great Art
    I will admit I am not an expert on the X-Men and the reason for it is I don't like them that much.  I have around 250 X-men related comic and have read a few more.  I have seen most of all the cartoons and movies (some of these I have seen several times).  So, it is with that amount of experience that I am writing this blog.  
     
    What I don't like about the X-Men is not the characters but, the very premise they are based on.  It is the problem of genetics.  Stan Lee said himself that the hard part to making superheroes was creating an origin story that gave them power.  With the X-Men you don't have to do that.   Here are my problems.
    1. Why does each X-Man have a different power?
    2. Why don't multiple X-Men have the same power?
    3. Why don't children always inherit their parents powers they way you would think they would?
    4. The evolutionary aspect is too dramatic and too diverse?
     
     Another Great Shot
     Another Great Shot
    This is a lot so let me try to explain.  Take Archangel for example.  In evolution an animal does not just one day grow wings.  It is a very slow process that takes generations to develop.  The animal will develop feathers and smaller wings and one day generation later the animal will fly.  
     
    Look at it genetically.  If two non mutants have a baby they are most likely to have a non-mutant baby.  If a mutant and a non mutant have a baby, the child should either inherit the ability of the mutant parent or the non-mutant parent.  It could also be some combination of the two.  If two mutants have a child then the child should have some sort of power that the parent has.  This is not absolute but most likely depending on the progressiveness of the gene.  If there is some mutant in the direct family tree somewhere than it is still possible to have a mutant child but it would be more rare the father back in the family tree the mutant is. 
     
    These girls are starving!
    These girls are starving!
    There are thousands of mutants in the Marvel universe and they all seem to have different powers.  It would seem that many of them should have the same or similar powers.  Perhaps there is something I am missing.  If I have made a terrible error let me know?
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    haydenclaireheroes

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    this blog was really true in so many ways and maybe Marvel could answer these questions in a future X-men story arc. 

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    xerox_kitty

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    #2  Edited By xerox_kitty

    I see where you've coming from, but I think some of the reasons you've listed are the reasons why people like the X-Men.  Being born a mutant was an easy way of giving a character powers without having to think of ways to survive gamma bombs or cosmic rays.  But it also meant that that kid in all of us got to dream about what our own mutant powers could be... 
     
    As for Angel's wings, some of the more physical mutations do take longer to develop.  In the Angel: Revelations mini series, you saw a slow development of his wings, starting with gruesome welts on his back.  Yet Angel's mutation was originally more than just wings; he had light bones & eagle eye sight as well.  Yet you're right, most mutations do occur quite quickly. 
     
    There are a few things that bother me about the X-Men (more than Matt Fraction, Greg Land or Terry Dodson).  One thing is the 'us & them' attitude it has developed over the last decade.  It isn't just 'fighting to protect a world that fears & hates them'.  Now it is 'Cyclops' personal crusade to kill as many mutants off in the name of preserving mutant kind'.  And there's the way that we have half a dozen regular X-Titles, yet we only have a spotlight on the same few characters over & over again.  With 200 mutants to choose from, why are we STILL watching Cyclops boss everyone else around & sacrificing everyone else for Hope...?

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    joshmightbe

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    #3  Edited By joshmightbe

    Its comics dude

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    deactivated-5c6600594117e

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    @Liberty: 
    Why don't children always inherit their parents powers they way you would think they would?    
     
    In 616: 
    Magneto-Lorna (makes sense) Quicksilver (has his father's obvious physical characteristics but speed talents?) Scarlet Witch (abilities completely unlike her father)
    Wolverine-Daken 
    Mystique & Azazel-Nightcrawler 
    Cyclops & Maddie Pryor (clone of Jean)-Cable 
     
    Alternate Realities: 
    Cyclops & Jean-Rachel Summers (powerset identical to her mother)
    Cyclops & Emma- Ruby Summers (has her father & mother's powersets) 
     
    These are the only ones I can think of right now. Looking at the low number of mutant parents, apparently most mutants are practicing safe sex which is always a good thing.

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    Magian

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    #5  Edited By Magian

    Although I agree with a lot in this blog, you have to think that this is a comic book. It was created in the 60s, a time where genetics were as advanced as today. And also think that the writers weren't experts in genetics. Take for example Spider-Man's origins, he was bitten by a radio-active spider. Such a small dose should have done nothing to him. But I would like to see an in-universe explanation about the things you mentioned.

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    Liberty

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    #6  Edited By Liberty
    @ComicMan24:I understand the issue of when it was published but shouldn't it be explained by now.  Good science fiction useally tries to keep up with the knowledge.
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    xerox_kitty

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    #7  Edited By xerox_kitty
    @Liberty said:
    "Good science fiction useally tries to keep up with the knowledge. "
    I've got to remember that one for future :)
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    Liberty

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    #8  Edited By Liberty
    @Jake Fury:   Good comment and funny.
     
    @joshmightbe:  With all do respect does that mean comics shouldn't be intelligent science fiction?  We are people on a comic book web site.  What should we talk about? 
     
    @xerox-kitty:  Great comments.  You know a lot more about the X-Men than I do.  By the way, you gave me my final quest too.  Now I have all quests I can without being a moderator.  One thing however about Angel.  To develop an evolutionary trait in one generation is unheard of.  So that is what I was tryig to say about the speed of his evolution.  
     
    @haydenclaireheroes: Thank you.  I hope you are right.
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    jordama

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    #9  Edited By jordama

    Mutants was supposed to be an extreme leap in evolution. Its what made us on par with alien species. Skrulls shapeshift, Kree  come basically all super heroes in our book, similarly wth Shi'ar. We had super mutations. The leap in evolution created many powers which f time progressed normally, we would most likely see some powers being better and more likely to be passed on than say Ugly Johns.  
     
    On the subject of births, I believe that it only makes sense that to powers are directly related to birth and siblings should also have related powers, which is mostly true. Masterminds three kids all have powers related to illusions, with Pixie having powers that are also based on her mother. Theresa takes after Banshee.  With the Childrens crusade going on with the young Avengers we are gonna find out the true origins of Speed and Wiccan who take after Wanda and Pietro quite a bit.
     
    When t comes to siblings we have the Summers, with related powers,  and the Frost family all psycics. 
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    B'Town

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    #10  Edited By B'Town
    @jordama said:

    "
    Mutants was supposed to be an extreme leap in evolution. Its what made us on par with alien species. Skrulls shapeshift, Kree  come basically all super heroes in our book, similarly wth Shi'ar. We had super mutations. The leap in evolution created many powers which f time progressed normally, we would most likely see some powers being better and more likely to be passed on than say Ugly Johns.   On the subject of births, I believe that it only makes sense that to powers are directly related to birth and siblings should also have related powers, which is mostly true. Masterminds three kids all have powers related to illusions, with Pixie having powers that are also based on her mother. Theresa takes after Banshee.  With the Childrens crusade going on with the young Avengers we are gonna find out the true origins of Speed and Wiccan who take after Wanda and Pietro quite a bit.  When t comes to siblings we have the Summers, with related powers,  and the Frost family all psycics.  "


    @xerox-kitty said:

    "I see where you've coming from, but I think some of the reasons you've listed are the reasons why people like the X-Men.  Being born a mutant was an easy way of giving a character powers without having to think of ways to survive gamma bombs or cosmic rays.  But it also meant that that kid in all of us got to dream about what our own mutant powers could be...  As for Angel's wings, some of the more physical mutations do take longer to develop.  In the Angel: Revelations mini series, you saw a slow development of his wings, starting with gruesome welts on his back.  Yet Angel's mutation was originally more than just wings; he had light bones & eagle eye sight as well.  Yet you're right, most mutations do occur quite quickly.  There are a few things that bother me about the X-Men (more than Matt Fraction, Greg Land or Terry Dodson).  One thing is the 'us & them' attitude it has developed over the last decade.  It isn't just 'fighting to protect a world that fears & hates them'.  Now it is 'Cyclops' personal crusade to kill as many mutants off in the name of preserving mutant kind'.  And there's the way that we have half a dozen regular X-Titles, yet we only have a spotlight on the same few characters over & over again.  With 200 mutants to choose from, why are we STILL watching Cyclops boss everyone else around & sacrificing everyone else for Hope...? "



    These two posts say it all for me.  My own personal statement would be to first reiterate zerox-kitty's opening line because it IS those differences that orginally drew me to the X-Men.  All mutants are so different and for the most part accepting and encouraging towards each other.   
     
    Growing up, I knew I wasn't like the other kids and fear of being ostracised prevented me as a child from celebrating my differences.   I really do believe this is why I gravitated towards the X-Men and still love them to this day.  I learned life lessons from these books that  I did not learn from my family or school.  Call it a little comic support.  
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    joshmightbe

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    #11  Edited By joshmightbe
    @Liberty: yes we should talk about comics but in some cases its better to just let things go like for instance superman he violates every law of physics like when he moves a planet without punching a hole in it. Of course marvel mutants don't make any natural sense, wolverine would have to be eating 90% of the day every day for his healing factor to work at all realistically.
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    danhimself

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    #12  Edited By danhimself

    there are a lot things about comics that don't make sense scientifically
     
    1. being bitten by a radioactive spider will not give you the same abilities of a spider
     2. being at ground zero of a gamma bomb will not turn you in to a giant, super strong, green man
    3. getting splashed with radioactive chemicals does not enhance your senses and give you a radar sense
    4. there are no green rings flying around the universe that give you super powers
    5. there is no hidden island full of Amazons
     
    I could go on and on but I think that's enough....it's called "suspension of disbelief"....don't over think things...just sit back and enjoy the story

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    Amegashita

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    #13  Edited By Amegashita

      Can't think to realistically about comics or the often lacking logic may put you off.

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    Liberty

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    #14  Edited By Liberty
    @danhimself:    @joshmightbe:  There is suspending disbelief and there is excepting bad premises.  Suspending disbelief only goes so far and is the justification of bad writing.  I can suspend my disbelief that there is an island of Amazons hidden some how.  I would not be able to suspend my disbelief if ice suddenly became flammable or it it sinks for no reason.  Science has to be true to the world it is representing.  Good science fiction makes good stories.  My questions are legitimate and Marvel has had decades to write a reason why.
     
    @xerox-kitty:@B'Town: Please understand I am not criticizing the characters themselves.  How they act or relate to each other is not an issue.  If these questions were answered it would only serve to make the characters better.
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    #15  Edited By Liberty
    @Amegashita: You are at least the third person to say the same thing.  I have addressed this statement several times .  So let me try a different way.   What makes a bad story?  If things don't make sense and you left scratching your head it was probably a bad story.  Look at the movie Catwoman.  The movie was widely criticized as a bad movie.  It was a bad movie because it made little sense. 
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    Amegashita

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    #16  Edited By Amegashita
    @Liberty:  I'm actually just like you.  Read one of my blog posts I made this long well researched exerpt on twins and how their place in comics is way to common than it really should be.  I'm just like you when it comes to actual background research on the topic of what is being used.  As a writer myself I pride myself in actually doing some research on the stories I write and, can't believe I'm saying this, made researching things overall fun for me.  I don't like writers not researching the topic they are using in their story but because of it I just cut out the middle man and not read most of the stories that don't have the background research that I expect to see from professional writers.  
     
      My point is, when looking at things from a realistic standpoint, most of the superhero stories are not thought up very well and is horribly lackluster in terms of research.  A lot of writers are lazy and things like research are mere distractions.
     
      Don't dwell on it, it won't change much, even though it would be nice if it did.
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    joshmightbe

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    #17  Edited By joshmightbe
    @Liberty: the purpose of mutants is so the writer can jump right in with actual character development without going through the tedious explanations of how they got their powers. lets be honest aside from a few classic characters the origin is the most boring part of the story and besides that some character power origins are scientifically impossible like the hulk, getting caught in a massive amount of gamma radiation isn't gonna mutate anything, it would have vaporized banner and rick jones, and as far as radioactive spider bites thats most likely just gonna make you sick maybe give you cancer
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    Liberty

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    #18  Edited By Liberty
    @joshmightbe:   I disagree about origin stories being boring.  They are only boring if they are lame premises.  Batman's origin is not boring,  Superman's is practically Biblical, hell even Booster Gold's in interesting.  I agree about the Hulk and I would say that is a different topic although I get your point.  There are many Marvel characters with these really lame premises (NOT ALL FOR THE RECORD)  As for Spider-man it started out as a radioactive spider but in the movie it was more than that.  They at least tried to explain it better.  Also the Hulk and Spider-man only ask you to make one jump of faith to join there world.  The is a whole bunch of problems with the mutant gene and no ever wants to explain it. 
     
    @Amegashita:   I think asking these questions over and over again gets people thinking.  If a writer is bad then stop buying their books.  Keep asking the question and someone will eventually try to explain it.  There is nothing worse than just excepting it.  I count now four people who have told me to basically accept it, and don't question.  That is bad advice.  I'm glad you are not that kind of writer and I will check out what you wrote.  Thank you for your comment.
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    B'Town

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    #19  Edited By B'Town
    @Liberty:
    I guess what it comes down to for me is I don't ask these questions of the X-Men.  I do find the science in comics interesting but it doesn't need to be realistic by any means for me to enjoy the story.  I am an X-Man fan, I don't necessarily feel a need to defend the premise of mutant evolution.  I accept that a large part of what I read is nonsense and that is ok with me if I am having fun. 
      
    We all read different books for different reasons.  I enjoy fantasy, fables and sometimes great science fiction, how much latitude I can extend a story is dependant on my expectations.  If I pick up a Science fiction novel I will expect sound science supporting the story.  On the other hand when I pick up a comic book, X-Men, Batgirl or Superboy, I really am looking for the fun factor not the science.   
     
    So I don't take your questions as a personal attack on these characters I love so much as, we- you- and I have different expectations of what constitutes a good read.  It's a pure and simple.
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    Liberty

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    #20  Edited By Liberty
    @B'Town:   It is funny but it was our conversation that inspired me to write this as my twentieth blog.  I always ask these questions of characters and stories I like as well as ones I don't like.  Sometimes a story can be so off I love it.  Like the movie Warriors.  That movie had so many unrealistic premises that is was funny and it became one of my favorite movies.  
     
    Just because the premise is faulty doesen't mean all the X-Men suck.  Asking the question is just a way of finding out more about the characters and how they work.  If done right answering these questions writers could make better and more in depth stories. They can also add to character development.
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    BuddyBulson

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    #21  Edited By BuddyBulson
    @Liberty:  lots of mutants have the same powers. they explain the x-gene as something as a LEAP in human evolution not the next step. there for having these awesome powers makes some sense. my question is why isnt the Hulk ALWAYS green. or why can superman do the things he does?  oh thats right its what the comic book writers want.
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    #22  Edited By BuddyBulson
    @jordama said:
    "
    Mutants was supposed to be an extreme leap in evolution. Its what made us on par with alien species. Skrulls shapeshift, Kree  come basically all super heroes in our book, similarly wth Shi'ar. We had super mutations. The leap in evolution created many powers which f time progressed normally, we would most likely see some powers being better and more likely to be passed on than say Ugly Johns.   On the subject of births, I believe that it only makes sense that to powers are directly related to birth and siblings should also have related powers, which is mostly true. Masterminds three kids all have powers related to illusions, with Pixie having powers that are also based on her mother. Theresa takes after Banshee.  With the Childrens crusade going on with the young Avengers we are gonna find out the true origins of Speed and Wiccan who take after Wanda and Pietro quite a bit.  When t comes to siblings we have the Summers, with related powers,  and the Frost family all psycics.  "
    oh thanks i could have said all that but u did it for me.
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    lorex

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    #23  Edited By lorex
    @Liberty said:
    "
     Great Art
     Great Art
    I will admit I am not an expert on the X-Men and the reason for it is I don't like them that much.  I have around 250 X-men related comic and have read a few more.  I have seen most of all the cartoons and movies (some of these I have seen several times).  So, it is with that amount of experience that I am writing this blog.  
     
    What I don't like about the X-Men is not the characters but, the very premise they are based on.  It is the problem of genetics.  Stan Lee said himself that the hard part to making superheroes was creating an origin story that gave them power.  With the X-Men you don't have to do that.   Here are my problems.
    1. Why does each X-Man have a different power?
    2. Why don't multiple X-Men have the same power?
    3. Why don't children always inherit their parents powers they way you would think they would?
    4. The evolutionary aspect is too dramatic and too diverse?
     
     Another Great Shot
     Another Great Shot
    This is a lot so let me try to explain.  Take Archangel for example.  In evolution an animal does not just one day grow wings.  It is a very slow process that takes generations to develop.  The animal will develop feathers and smaller wings and one day generation later the animal will fly.  
     
    Look at it genetically.  If two non mutants have a baby they are most likely to have a non-mutant baby.  If a mutant and a non mutant have a baby, the child should either inherit the ability of the mutant parent or the non-mutant parent.  It could also be some combination of the two.  If two mutants have a child then the child should have some sort of power that the parent has.  This is not absolute but most likely depending on the progressiveness of the gene.  If there is some mutant in the direct family tree somewhere than it is still possible to have a mutant child but it would be more rare the father back in the family tree the mutant is. 
     
    These girls are starving!
    These girls are starving!
    There are thousands of mutants in the Marvel universe and they all seem to have different powers.  It would seem that many of them should have the same or similar powers.  Perhaps there is something I am missing.  If I have made a terrible error let me know? "
    1. I think the mutants tend to have different powers because the the x-gene acts differently on each persons genetics.
    2. Some mutants have similar powers but for the most part they are different.
    3. I think that ties into how the x-gene affects each person differently. Also all traits held by parents are not inherited by children.
    4. I agree that evolution would happen over a much longer period, but thats just part of reality you have to ignore to enjoy comics.
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    Liberty

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    #24  Edited By Liberty
    @BuddyBulson:   Sorry, I dared ask the question.  Oh wait I'm not.  I am just trying to facilitate a conversation and I keep getting the same response.  It's what the writers want.  I have read similar blogs about Superman and others.  Why is this one the one I'm not allowed to question?  At least now I now why it has gone unaddressed for so long none f the readers demand more.  At least in books like Superman they try to address issues that don't quite add up.  He has gone through many incarnations.  Apparently X-Man readers say "don't question it, just read it."    
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    Liberty

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    #25  Edited By Liberty
    @lorex:   Thank you for at least trying to answer some of the questions.  I like your answer for number one. I hadn't heard that.  I'm also glad you agree with me on four.  However I would like to see the writers answer this question.  It would make for a compelling story I'm sure.
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    xerox_kitty

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    #26  Edited By xerox_kitty
    @Liberty said:
    @xerox-kitty:  Great comments.  You know a lot more about the X-Men than I do.  By the way, you gave me my final quest too.  Now I have all quests I can without being a moderator.  One thing however about Angel.  To develop an evolutionary trait in one generation is unheard of.  So that is what I was tryig to say about the speed of his evolution.

    If anything, I'm good for something (even if it's just Questing :) 
     
    To be honest, it's something I hadn't thought about.  You are absolutely right, of course.  Nature does take a few generations to develop deviations.  But if you think about the mutants that are created in human genetics right now, they're usually bizarre physical changes that don't involve super powers.  Conjoined twins, 6 fingers on one hand, hermaphrodites, webbed toes, heterochrome eyes... These are real life mutations that stun and amaze us.  yet when it comes to science fiction, they don't really appeal to people.   
     
    From a creator's point of view, there aren't many interesting stories you can tell about someone who has an extra digit on their left hand.  And from a reader's point of view, I can't say I want to read about those types of mutations.  So if given the choice to suspend a little disbelief (which you often have to do a little with sci fi & fantasy) then I'd take the big blue furry guy & his blond buddy with wings over the guy with female genitalia or the girl with mixed colour eyes. (Not that I want to read the X-Men lately the stories have all been far below par, but you get my drift ;)
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    VIZION2011

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    #27  Edited By VIZION2011

     
     
     
    This whole blog is the reason I slightly favor the marvel U more the DCU, I don't like the fact that a god like alien can come into town and proclaim himself a hero when to me her has no real human connection, he barely feels pain and problem will never die. However marvel U is more real and flawed, these are people that are not just born with powers but they are also born with deformities (like maggot or beak) and they must learn to turn lemons into lemonade. I love the fact that they al have different powers,if they  have all the same power sets its soooo not  interesting. Everyone should'nt always be super strong or super fast, Marvel U has so many wonderful powers and so many great characters, its almost impossible not to relate with one of there characters. I got so tired of seeing the same characters pop up in DC, Martian man hunter=Superman and the list goes on.
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    BuddyBulson

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    #28  Edited By BuddyBulson
    @Liberty said:

    " @BuddyBulson:   Sorry, I dared ask the question.  Oh wait I'm not.  I am just trying to facilitate a conversation and I keep getting the same response.  It's what the writers want.  I have read similar blogs about Superman and others.  Why is this one the one I'm not allowed to question?  At least now I now why it has gone unaddressed for so long none f the readers demand more.  At least in books like Superman they try to address issues that don't quite add up.  He has gone through many incarnations.  Apparently X-Man readers say "don't question it, just read it."     "

    I didnt say  you couldn't ask these questions. I think that its great you asked, I feel like they do talk about these things in the comics though and often, 
     just read Endangered Species, Gifted, Curse of the Mutants, or Blind science. These stories all have good insight about the x-gene.  
     
    Tho the x-gene has never been FULLY explained we know it is a result of the Celestials experimenting on humans when they first came to earth. It is said that the MALE is the carrier of the x-gene but if the female is a mutant giving birth then the child will most likely have the x-gene. Other species have their own x-gene as well, Atllanteans, Phalanx, and other Alien races. 
     
     I know you said you own a lot of x-men but have not read it... I think that marvel does focus on the x-gene and HAS explained themselves enough for fans to enjoy reading these x-titles with out having to think that it is a EASY OUT. Yes Stan Lee said it was so he could just not explain how some characters got their powers but thats the great thing about X-Men and Mutants.... they didnt ask for these powers. They just got them. Which makes more sense to why most of them are crazy. What would u do in a world that fears and hates you?
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    #29  Edited By Liberty
    @BuddyBulson:@VIZION2010:@xerox-kitty: 
     
     

    @VIZION2010:

        Thank you for your post.  I want to say again that I am not saying anything is wrong with the characters themselves.  For that matter there is nothing wrong this how they get there powers.  I am curious as to how they work.  Sure I'm not a big fan but I'm not a big fan of Superman or Hulk.  I get annoyed by the same things in those premises that I do in the X-Men.  
     
    There is a lot of real love for the X-Men by their fans and I get that even if I don't feel the same way for theses particular characters.  I could have written a similar blog about Heroes.  They were almost complete rip=offs of the X-Men in a lot of ways.  All that said I am not advocating any characters to be changed.  For example the diverse powers that X-Men have.  I would just like to see it at least explained a little better.  A previous post did just that.
     
    Although I am far from the biggest fan of Superman I think you were a little unfair about him proclaiming himself as a god.  His powers however are ridiculous like Super-math. 
     

    @xerox-kitty:

    Absolutely the best response so far.  You make tremendous points and I have no rebuttal.  

    @BuddyBulson: Great response.  Thank You.  I did read the books I have however.  That said I listed those as my lack of knowledge on the subject.  When you look at all the different X-Men titles and the thousands of books that have been published you can see the amount I have are a small fraction of what is out there.  For example I have not read one of the books you listed as an explanation.  I'll check into it.  Thank You. 
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    #30  Edited By xybernauts

    Well to start, the problem with your premise is that it seems to be based on the idea that X-Men is portraying Darwinian Evolution. It isn't. It's portraying Lamarkian Evolution; a theory of evolution long discredited by Darwinian Evolution. I read this once in a Special Issue of Wizard magazine portraying the X-Men. X-Men is portraying the idea, what if Lamark was right?  I'm not sure how accurate X-Men comics version of Lamarkian Evolution is though.   Also, mutations are not completely natural. I believe the Celestials are the original source of X-Men Mutations.  Below are a few excerpts from a wiki and other sites.  
     

     One million years ago, an alien race called the Celestials came to Earth and performed genetic experiments on proto-humanity, incorporating and altering DNA in the genetic code of the early species of the genus Homo to allow future generations to gain superpowers, making the Celestials the source of all mutants.


        


     Lamarck's contribution was a systematic theoretical framework for understanding evolution. He saw evolution as comprising two processes;

    1. Le pouvoir de la vie (a complexifying force) - in which the natural, alchemical movements of fluids would etch out organs from tissues, leading to ever more complex construction regardless of the organ's use or disuse. This would drive organisms from simple to complex forms.
    2. L'influence des circonstances (an adaptive force) - in which the use and disuse of characters led organisms to become more adapted to their environment. This would take organisms sideways off the path from simple to complex, specialising them for their environment.    

     

     " 

     

     Your children will inherit your body-mods. Maybe the earliest evolutionary theorist was Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744-1829) who believed in the idea of "soft inheritance," where you pass on your acquired characteristics to your kids. If your body adapts to circumstances during your life — for example, if a particular organ gets smaller because you use it less — then your children will inherit it. (That organ will be smaller in your kids.) In fact, only genetic changes are passed on. But that doesn't stop science fiction from presenting changes to a creature's body, or non-genetic adaptations that you make in the course of your life, as being heritable. (Lamarck's ideas are sometimes mischaracterized as, "if you lose a leg, you'll have one-legged children," but he wasn't that silly.) In David Cronenberg's 1979 classic The Brood, a cutting-edge psychotherapy causes patients to manifest their darkest emotions in their own bodies — and one transformed woman gives birth to monster children that she can control telepathically.

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    joshmightbe

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    #31  Edited By joshmightbe
    @Liberty: I'm not saying all origin stories are boring but not all of them can be exploding planets and parents dying in front of you
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    #32  Edited By Silkcuts

    Great Blog.  X-Men are big because it became a "cool" book when Jim Lee was on it... when it was dying down it became a "cool book" again when Grant Morrison was on it.
     
    X-Men sell hype/X-Overs, sex  and pyrotechnics. I am not trying to hate on all the X-Men, I like Wolverine, I hate his spin-off like Daken and X-23. 
     
    back to the topic.. you are right... if genetics is to play a part.... how come Cable is the the way he is when his parents are "bad ass".  
     
    and I love the math you did :D
    Non-Mutant + Non Mutant (should) = Non - Mutant.
    Non-Mutant + Mutant (should) = only powers possible to inherit are the mutant parents powers.  That is like brown eyes being more dominate then blue eyes, its science.
     
    Good read as normal buddy!
    Cheers!

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    #33  Edited By xerox_kitty
    @Liberty: I love that this has stirred up a lot of debate.  There are a lot of pros & cons flying around... but the best thing is that everyone is backing it up with either facts or personal opinion (and clearly defining between the two)!  Really great blog & equally great posts! 
     
    What's more, I got to talk about Angel without reducing him to an object of lust... for a change ;)
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    #34  Edited By joshmightbe

    evolution does react to the environment and considering that marvel's earth is home to many mystical and demonic threats perhaps the evolutionary path is trying to adapt to all this not to mention the celestial tampering and kree experimentation that earth has gone thru

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    #35  Edited By Thunderscream

    It gets a little confusing when you consider the Celestials involvement as they're basically the "God" of the MU. They created the Eternals and the Deviants (Angels and Demons respectively) in addition to the Inhumans and initiated the advancement of homo sapiens. Residual tampering left the possibility of humans obtaining access to a Celestial energy matrix previously exclusive to Eternals. It's the capability to tap this energy source that categorizes mutant-humans. 
     
    This theory seems sound, but what makes a mutant isn't exclusive to Celestial involvement. Franklin Richards is a prime example of a super-powered individual spawned by meta-human parents altered by cosmic rays. This fact should exclude him from the genus homo superior as his "mutation" is directly linked to the same cosmic energies that bombarded Richard and Sue....but he's often referred to as a powerful "mutant". 
    The Fenris Twins and Mimic were exposed to radiation within the womb making them meta-human and The Purple Man's daughter, Persuasion, inherited her father's abilities which he gained being doused in chemicals, making himself and her meta-human and NOT mutant, at least by what I see as a natural mutation. 
     
    Although she was retconned into a mutant, Psylocke is actually an otherworlder/human hybrid along with her brothers. Being a hybrid of 2 species doesn't make an X-factor carrying mutant. I love her all the same though ;)
     
    Latent mutants are genetically predisposed to produce mutant offspring but don't exhibit uncanny abilities themselves (but in some cases under extreme duress, accelerated adrenaline can grant a temporary boost in power out of self-preservation or when pregnant with a mutant fetus can exhibit the powers of that offspring. i.e. Haven)

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    Liberty

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    #36  Edited By Liberty
    @Thunderscream:  Great Response!
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    #37  Edited By Rheged

     @Liberty:   You are confusing mutation in normal evolution, with mutation in the Marvel U due to having an X-Gene.  The first works as you say, and if you think about it, a great percentage of the population is actually technically mutants.  Mutants in the Marvel U have an X-Gene.  Apparently, the X-Gene manifests as these radical different powers.  A character has to inherit the X-Gene according to normal rules of genetics, I would think, but how that gene _manifests_ is not dependent on the parents.  IOW, what you inherit is the _ability_ to have a power, not the particular power you parents had.

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    #38  Edited By Thunderscream
    @Rheged: but there is an inconsistency in the genetic traits passed from parent to child. One thing that set the union of Jean and Cyclops apart from other mutant family trees was the inherent telepathy, telekinesis and energy projection. Rachel, Cable, Nate Grey and any other combination of their DNA resulted in a psionic super-being. 
     
    An example of descendants manifesting powers contrary to their predecessors is Magneto, Wanda and Pietro. My understanding of this situation may be the absence of of the father. Wanda and Pietro were born on Wundagore Mountain in the presence of the Whizzer and the influenced by Chthon. During the gestation period, their exposure to their father was minimal at best, so Pietro's powers reflected the Whizzer's and Wanda became highly attuned to the mystic arts with her probability hexes (Chthon tipped her scales of power to make her a vessel)  
     
    So what I'm saying is that as the mutant fetus develops, it may syphon mutant abilities from within a short radius as an indicator of what powers it may need to survive. So if the mother is a mutant, the child will most likely inherit her powers unless it unconsciously deems another power more useful. In most cases the powers still don't manifest until puberty....but since their genetic makeup is so malleable and fluid in the womb, this may be the period in which the wide variety of powers are decided.  
     
    I think that makes more sense than the moment of power emergence instantly manifesting to react to stress or the environment, or maybe they both make about the same amount of sense?
     
    I'm kinda just making this up as I go, but does that sound plausible?
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    #39  Edited By cbishop
    @Liberty: Your blogs are getting better each time, man, but on to the topic: I know it's frustrating, but the reason you're getting the same response over and over is because that's the answer.  "Mutant" started out as a blanket plot device to avoid having to come up with origin stories, and was itself the "explanation" - not something that needed an explanation.  Writing-wise, "mutant" is the "scientific" equivalent of "magic" - you say "It's magic," or "They're a mutant," and that's the end of it - there's your explanation.  Frankly, to go too deep into it is just a freakin' headache, for all of the reasons you and others have listed here.
     
    But yeah, okay, people want a better explanation over time, so Marvel basically created another blanket plot device to explain this one - "The Celestials did it."  Okaaay, how did they do it?  The thing is though, do we really want to know?  Forget "suspend your disbelief," or whether it's a "bad premise."  I do not in any way mean this as a simplistic answer, but this is fiction.  At some point, you have to stop asking, because the next answer is, "Look, I made it up, okay?"  Even in science fiction, at some point, the "science" part of it is pseudo-science at best. 
     
    Over the years, I have tried to wrap my brain around a lot of science fiction, and when it came down to it, my favorite sci-fi author was Ray Bradbury.  He never bothered to explain it to you.  The story opens with a rocket landing on Mars, and hey, blacks are the majority here, hanging whites.  In another Mars story, two guys ride around in a jeep with a sonic canon, disentegrating crystaline buildings, in search of a magical blue bottle (that doesn't disentegrate from the sonics).  There was no scientific explanation to his stuff - it just was, and you either enjoyed the story or you didn't. 
     
    Back in the 80's or 90's, there was a sci-fi series of novels called Wild Cards.  An alien virus was loosed in the atmosphere, producing one of five results: 1) no effect, 2) death ("Black Queen"), 3) physical mutation/deformity ("Jokers"), 4) superpowers ("Ace"), or 5) a minor power, like screwing a light bulb into your elbow and making it light up ("Deuce" - usually accompanied by "Joker" mutation).  Eventually, the alien responsible for the virus theorized (and the writing made it clear) that the "Joker" and "Ace" changes were in line with how the person saw themselves, and the limits on their powers were more mental than physical. 
     
    I mention that, because the same idea for how powers developed was used onscreen, for Smallville, HeroesThe Incredibles, No Ordinary Family, and to a gentler degree, Sky High and Zoom.  In all of those, the powers were thematic with the personality - they matched how the person really saw themselves.  I've seen both DC and Marvel flirt with that idea in their comics, to explain the unexplainable, but they keep getting away from it.  At one point, it seemed like Marvel was leaning towards that for an explanation of how mutants were so varied in their powers, but the thing is: that still doesn't really explain it.  So again, at some point, you just gotta stop and say, "They made it up.  That's why." <shrugs> It is what it is because it is what they say it is (that explanation after "<shrugs>" will feel a lot better if you sing it like a funky 1970's disco song). ;) 
     
    P.S. to some things from the comments: 1) Marvel has pretty much agreed that "radioactive spider" was a bad explanation for Spider-Man's powers.  In the movie, it was changed to "genetically altered spider," which is cooler sci-fi these days.  In the comics, Morlun explained it as the "spider totem" being passed from the spider to Peter - a totemistic power only available to someone willing to receive it (whether he realized he was willing or not).  These are only marginally better, but they are better. 
     
    2) The Hulk's different colors (and different behaviors) have been explained as different aspects of Banner's fractured personality. 
     
    3) I think that The Avengers: The Kree-Skrull War says the Inhumans were created by the Kree, not the Celestials.  However, it may have credited the Celestials with the creation, but the Kree with assigning the name "Inhumans."  I read it a few days ago, but have been up many hours at this point, so don't remember it clearly at the moment. 
     
    HOWEVER, a faulty Master Mold Sentinel had a logic breakdown once, and in examining humanity's propensity for developing superpowers through any number of circumstances, including mutant birth, determined that all humans were mutants, and went on a killing spree.  I think that was the Tri-Sentinel that Cosmic Spidey took out, but I don't remember for sure. (I've read a lot of comics over the years, okay?) 
     
    We can come up with better and better explanations to make it sound "more real," but it's not real.  So eventually, the logic (even comic book logic) is going to break down, and the answer is going to be, "Someone made it up, and that's the way it is."
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    #40  Edited By Liberty
    @cbishop:  Love the response but I hate this blog.  I wrote it almost a month ago and got satisfactory answers to my questions long ago.  This is one blog that keeps turning up like a bad penny.  When I saw it had turned up today I was saying "No, not that one!"  I leave it up for people who were curious like me but I think the answers are out there at least to some level and that is all I wanted to know. 


    To be honest I don't like Marvel comics very much.  The concepts infuriate me.  I hate telling people this because it is sacrilegious but I don't like Stan Lee or Jack Kirby either.  There is hardly a character or concept they created that I like. To be honest I can not think of one.  I like origins. I like a good story. I like science fiction. Those two seemed to do everything they could to avoid making good stories (Just my opinion)   I also have to say that DC is not guiltless but they don't seemed to be as guilty.  The New Gods, Newsboy Legion and The Boy Commandos are terrible in my humble opinion.  That is to say not every character stinks.  Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Big Barda grew on me for example.

    I'm glad you like the blog and you are right. I am even happier that you responded the way you do. I really enjoyed reading it

     
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    #41  Edited By Thunderscream
    @Liberty: I sympathize. I'm actually very opposed to Hope's reactivation of mutantkind and in many cases I just flat out deny the existence of certain storylines (*achem* Vulcan, The Neo, Azazel)....but i just can't ween myself off the X-Men. It's like heroin and I'm totally a junkie. 
     
    There's a certain way to spin the mythology that makes it so addictive :)
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    #42  Edited By Rheged
    @Thunderscream:    If you inherit a power / ability, then it is no longer technically a mutation.  It then becomes an inheritable trait, like eye color.  A mutation is a _change_ in the genes.  I would postulate, that the Summer / Grey families are passing along a genetic trait that influences the X-Gene to manifest a certain power set.
     
    I think you are complicating how the X-Gene works and assigning it sentience of a sorts.  Genes don't think or make decisions.  I'm not saying the moment of power emergence has anything to do with how the X-Gene manifests.   I'm saying, that having the X-Gene will somehow insure a mutation occurs in your cells that results in powers.   I could see some outside force having an influence on what those powers are, but I'm not sure the presence or absence of a father is necessarily it.  I can also seeing the whole process being entirely random.
     
    I should point out, most writers and editors, probably do NOT want this stuff nailed down precisely, so as to have as many possible options available for exploration.
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    #43  Edited By cbishop
    @Liberty said:

    "...I hate telling people this because it is sacrilegious but I don't like Stan Lee or Jack Kirby either.  There is hardly a character or concept they created that I like. To be honest I can not think of one..."


    <GASSSSSSPPPP...P...PP!>  HERETIC!  <throws grapefruit sized stone at Liberty's head> 
     
      
    Nah, I know what you mean.  I was that way about Kirby's art for years.  I just didn't think it was all that great.  However, there are things about it that have grown on me, over the years.  You have to put them in context though.  They created all these characters and concepts that creators are still wanting to play with some 75 years later, and that's nothing to sneeze at (that's a really odd phrase, isn't it?).  Stan and Jack are from a different time.  Back then, they just had to have a name and a character design, and write a story.  The origin wasn't as important as where they went from there, because they had to sell books every month.  It's all pretty hokie by today's standard, but honestly, I'm getting where I prefer the older stuff for sheer creativity, and damn whether it makes total sense or not. 
     
    I mean, two guys fused into one superguy by a nuclear blast is really no better than one guy turned into a monster by a gamma blast, or one kid given powers by a radioactive spider.  It's all radiation doing unlikely things, but man, those characters are fun!  I always thought two of the cheesiest concepts from Marvel & DC were Kamandi and Devil Dinosaur (although DD holds a place in my heart, as the first comic I ever got my mom to buy, off the grocery store spinner rack).  When I got the DD omnibus though, and read the explanation, I really appreciated how it came about. 
     
    Kirby had enjoyed some some success with Kamandi, when it came out for DC.  Apparently, "the last boy on Earth" appealed to readers.  And who doesn't like a post-apocalyptic tale, right?  So when Marvel asked him to do something similar for them, he decided, "Hey, I went to the end of time for DC.  What if I go to the beginning of time for Marvel?"  So he came up with Devil Dinosaur, and his companion, Moonboy, the "first human" (or some such title).  Devil Dinosaur has been called the Plan 9 From Outer Space of comic books - "the worst comic ever made."  I really appreciate that it came from so simple an idea though - "Let's do the opposite of what I did before." lol 
     
    This goes back to the original topic a little bit.  I'm getting to the point where the "just accept it" stories are more entertaining to me.  I'm surprised that as a comedian, you don't feel a bit similarly.  After all, no matter what tone those stories take, there's always something ridiculous to be laughed at.  I enjoy those laughs, and I really like the way those simple, "just accept it" concepts make me think of other ways to make them work, which usually end up with me creating my own characters.  When it comes down to it though, even though I come up with something that I can wrap my head around, if broken down too far, the explanation will still be, "I made it up, okay?" 
     
    I guess what I'm saying here is that yeah, Jack & Stan's ideas often seem ridiculous, but the longer I look at them, the more I think they are totally understated in their genius.  I say that, because I've created thousands of characters over the years, but I have yet to put any into print.  Most of the reason for that is that I've spent so much time reasoning out the "hows" and "whys" of the characters, that I fail to "Just write the danged story!"  ...Oh, man, I think I just had an epiphany. ;)
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    #44  Edited By Thunderscream
    @Rheged:  i like nailing ;P
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    #45  Edited By Liberty
    @cbishop:   The one thing I will say is there is a difference between comedy and lameness.  I probably would not be as successful if I just did knock knock jokes.  Great response again by the way.
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    here is my thoughts on why each x-man has a different power: the x-gene allows their mind to tap into another dimension that alters reality and their mind subconciously chooses how it alters reality (power-wise) based on personality and strength of the x-gene.

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