Recent discussions have me thinking about what the ultimate objective and endgame is for the O5. I'd be interested to get people's theories and discuss it. I know I've certainly been one to criticize the book for sure.The lack of detail and dare I say logic in the premise coupled with the lack of direction of the book and what I would call weak execution has been a big turn off for me. Really though, reading the post of fellow viners is a whole helluva lot better than the actual comic itself. This idea could have been so much better if done right. But all that said, i still can't escape from feeling that this book can't just be disregarded in terms of importance. It almost feels as if this book is just moving along with different adventures in small but similar way to the wide range of capers that the old Excalibur had, but all this is a way of treading water until some major and monumental event. I've really been thinking lately about what all this is leading up to.

1. A Reboot- I mean they have to reboot right? How could the o5 go back with the knowledge of their future/ present and things not change somehow? If not then this whole thing has been an exercise in futility and a complete waste of time for them to just end up being mind wiped by Xavier upon returning with nothing affected and no consequences. I happen to think and am actually afraid that they eventually go back with all their memories of the current timeline and erase it or change it in someway, thus a reboot.

I realize its hard to see since it seems that everything is about Jean, but really all of them have to be affected by what they see in the present. Scott is off on a bonding off-world trip with his father and has seen his future self and seems to want no part of it. Also he's seeing that there's more to life than Jean Grey. How does this affect him going back? Would be so apt to leave the Xmen if something happened to Jean or be attracted to Maddie and treat her the same way as before? What about seeing how Xavier's dream has still not worked? Jean knowing about her dismal future. How does this change her. Now she's being tutored by the very woman who had a hand in turning her into Dark phoenix in the 1st place? Plus without Xavier's influence and safeguards does she become amoral and reckless when it comes to her psychic powers? Will she abuse them? Maybe Im reaching a little bit here. But what if Emma in being sick and tired of the reverence that Jean Grey gets from the Xmen and possibly feeling that she's never really accepted because of Jean, implants something in teenie's mind, possibly a subtle suggestion about power that causes Jean to be more power mad and less good girlish thus making her an antagonist for the other o5ers. Maybe the burn away what doesn't work concept being pushed to the fore in Jean's mind or at the very least turning things into an age of the phoenix type deal. Beast can see what a screw up his older self is as far as his own personal experimentation, damage to the timeline and arrogance. Angel can see what has happened to him in that he's now basically a mindless bird who's arguably had the most horrible life of all the originals. Iceman basically being a caricature and never being taken seriously and ultimately rejected in every instance. To me all this is underlying and not really discussed in the book but just has to logically be there at least in their minds. They've got to be thinking this has to change. So either they go back and do things differently or Jean does the "burn away what doesn't work" thing that all xmen stories fall into with yet another Phoenix story. ( Funny enough I had a fan-fic idea along those lines with Jean returning from the White Hot Room to help her fellow Xmen because the other Phoenix avatars want to burn away what doesnt work)

2. The creation of an alternate universe- if its not a reboot, then could it possibly be the jumping off point for a new universe somewhat similar to the existence of the Ultimate universe. Given the teasers about Ultimate ending and of course I'd have to factor in Bendis' seeming affinity for changing everything and time-travel/alternate reality stuff, another universe could be likely at least by some stretch of the imagination. Of course we have the silly and really ridiculous attempt by Bendis to go against every point of logic and say these are not alternates and that it really is the 616 characters. That's another discussion i don't really want to get into, suffice it to say that Bendis should pick up a dictionary and a Marvel universe handbook on this subject.

I think the O5 going back and changing things could/should/would create an alternate timeline or universe. This way all the old stories could be retold or revamped in whatever way they want and Bendis would have a field day with ultimate control of his own whole universe. This way we don't destroy everything that's been built up and the character development that has occurred over time.

Of course maybe there is the possibility of neither one of these drastic measures and things just being a lead up to another event or maybe even a soft reboot in which certain stories are erased or whatever but that's a whole new can of worms.

Given my current and most likely well and overly-stated dislike and distrust of the way things currently are, the possible implications of this whole O5 thing scares me somewhat. I've said before that a separate Xmen universe or even a reboot is not as distasteful as it's been previously. But completely wiping out everything would be difficult to accept and who's to say with the current lack of creativity a reboot would be for the better. The lack of direction in All new has been aggravating but I wonder if I've been somewhat distracted by the nuances of the book and maybe could be missing the big picture. Maybe the story seems to be dragging and directionless for a reason. Maybe the new crop of readers are just being introduced to the O5 in different settings and they are having a larger presence in the Marvel U through crossovers with GOTG and Avengers and whoever else because it's leading to something big that they will do. I really don't know what to think about this anymore and I hate to be conspiracy guy but really.... WTF!!!

Thoughts?

Marvel. Disney. Bendis.

The reason why Beast brought the O5 back was to tell the current Cyclops what he was doing wrong and stop himself going in too deep... Beast thought that is Current!Cyclops could see Teen!Cyclops, he would stop his revolution...

Obviously that plan failed as after the Battle of the Atom, the O5 went to Scott's school, so really they have no purpose to be here, but the O5 claim that they want to stay to change their future when they come back...

But rumours are, that once Bendis sends the O5 back, that will reboot the X-Men as the O5 are obviously going to want to change their future... Hence, rebooting the X-Men...

I have read that the Original 5 isn't the original of earth 616, but they came from another universe; it's true?

I ask because it is, it may not be a mistake of Bendis, but a mistake of Old Beast. If I am right, we may not have neither a reboot, nor an alternate universe, but a third option which we haven't yet thought.

That would actually make for a pretty cool twist that would be so much easier to incorporate in the story. Though I am unsure if they can do it, because we saw the death of young Cyclops nearly erasing current Cyclops from the time line which seem to affirm these original 5 are from 616 reality. Maybe they could gloss over than and change something for the future.

@ec2277: I think Bendis said in an interview that the O5 are the actual O5 from Earth 616 past and not some alternate reality...

I have a feeling there will be no lasting repercussions. Maybe I'll be wrong.

The three things that make comic books worth reading. They can do no wrong

Well if you are following the actual continuity of the comics, they can't be the original X-Men from 616. When the "O5" show up in the present, Scott and Jean are already involved in some sort of relationship, despite the fact that they are all still young teenagers and that they were snagged around the time of X-Men #8 of the original series. In the actual canon, Scott and Jean didn't start dating until they graduated the X-Men and were a bit older, around issue 30 something, if I recall.

Though, Bendis never really pays attention to what happened in the previous X-Men continuity, which is arguably not a terrible thing?? I don't know.

For instance, there is an issue where Beast refers to him turning blue as a part of his mutation, which it wasn't. There is also an issue where Kitty Pryde tells younger Jean she knew older Jean and older Jean taught her when she was a student......which isn't true, her and Jean have never really had any interactions during their individual characters existence, they were always primarily on different teams. Iceman also talks about how they fought Unus the Untouchable...but although they are taken from the issue where that character first appears, they hadn't actually met the character yet.

I have no clue, I think they are fully intended to be the 616 O5. You never know though.

The thing I have with the reboot idea is that it would mean that the X-Men would have to be the starting point and center pieces for an event. I mean supposedly time and the dimensions are falling apart anyway but for the Avengers not to be the stars of the event or have their past as the trigger moment for a reboot, especially with Age of Ultron coming next year seems very out there. I mean its possible this may just be catalyst from which the X-Men, part of the reboot might be based, but to let this trigger the whole thing seems to go against the Ugly Duckling logic that Marvel seems to use for dealing with X-Men as a franchise.

The alternate universe thing also seems unlikely do to how much they seem to be putting into blowing the alternate universes of Marvel to pieces. Though considering it for moment, it could be interesting if after all is said and done and it turns out there was a reboot, if there were a second reality which is based off the first, where the O5 live their lives with the knowledg they have of the future. It could arguably be the New Marvel version of the Ultimate U, in a world where all dimensions have crashed into eachother.

Honestly these characters and their presence exhaust me. And their book hasn't given them a reason to be in the here and now, (In fact if you go by reading the book the only one who wants to be here is Teen Jean) so I wouldn't be surprised if the reason turns out to be something they haven't introduced yet. Honestly though the more I think about it the more I believe that reboot may be the only way to rectify a situation where the most popular and well selling X-Men characters are time displaced original versions with no aim or reason to go home.

As a fan of the 2009 Batgirl comic from before the New 52 I always wondered why they even bother putting so much effort into releasing the title that could've failed easily, if they were going just to reboot anyway. I consider the Cyclops title the same way, bit with the added question of "if they don't reboot how will they justify ending this well selling well liked series?".

I still consider it baseless speculation because Marvel fans have been screaming reboot since the week after DC did it; but if they were to reboot it would only make me angry that the title that couldve celebrated and explored the X-Mens history before it was all changed or erased almost completely and purposefully ignored it in exchange for teen angst with zero resolution.

@cattlebattle: Bendis doesn't do his research sometimes so you may be right...

I really wish I could believe that was evidence of Bendis setting up something awesome, but I'm more inclined to think it's just him messing up his continuity, like you said.

Bendis has said repeatedly that these are the 616 O5, so either he's lying to hide a story or he won't address the fact that he didn't actually read the issue he took the characters from. Though it would be awesome if it turned out someone had time traveled back to the JGS right before Beast did and created the inconsistency...it could even be a cool way of addressing the reason they can't go back.

ahh the holy Trinity, lol

@koays: can teen iceman be called icemen now since he can creates other ice-hulks?

@hopesummersforthefuture: If that changed happened, there would be so many typos and people would think you're talking about Teen Iceman instead of Older Iceman...

@hopesummersforthefuture: No teen Iceman can be called Badwriting-man....since he's done nothing to suggest he make hulks before now.

Though, i guess technically Bendis already has that super hero name...

lol but in the next anxm he did create ice-hulks and was about to come up with something new in the preview pages. have to wait to wednesday

Lol, Bendis is doing this on purpose to mess with me i'm positive. Seriously i think the only people more fed up with him at the moment are the GotG fans.

Thank you all for the clarification about the Original 5.

I don't think there will not be repercussion, because Bendis is creating too room for a return the Old Jean: the ending of the relationship between Emma and Scott, the continuously repeating that Jean is the truly love of Scott and the focus on the Teen Jean, are all things that create expectations in readers and a publishing house can't frustrate such expectations; especially if they concern a character loved like Jean.

But a character pure, perfect and powerful like White Phoenix of the Crown is unusable like a main character in a story. On the other hand stories like "Phoenix warsong" and "Avenger vs X-Men" have demonstrated that Phoenix work perfectly also without Jean and Jean worked perfectly also without the fusion with Phoenix.

It is therefore necessary break the tie between Phoenix and Jean in order to make Jean suitable to the current stories of the X-Men. Maybe Jean will be always the strongest and favourite host of the Phoenix, but she will not be White Phoenix of the Crown.

It is also necessary to make a development work of Jean, similar to that done on Scott, because the good and pure Jean is ill-adapted to the current stories of the X-Men.

Therefore I think Bendis want rebuilt Jean in order to make her protagonist again of the X-stories.

Obviously I can make a very big mistake about the Bendis' intentions.

EDIT

In retrospect I think I wrote a foolishness: there are ways more simple to bring back the old Jean in the X-Men stories.

Than this more likely is going to be a reboot. I think Bendis is trying to surprise us with having those young 05 in this present time. Let us hope that that is what it is. But then again, is this reboot will affect the whole Marvel's story? Would Jean will never let the phoenix to take over her? Would Cyclops be more mature then the currents one? Would beats become the blue beats? Would Angel never let Apocalypse mislead him and not become Archangel? Would they never get to believe in Xavier's dream and the hell with the peace? Would they ever get to choose the path in becoming X-men... is my question here. I think if this is the reboot ya talking about then, I think things will never be the same.

i dont want jean to be the enemy of the x-men. also did you read anxm where emma frost was like "maybe it means you dont turn into a beautiful nightmare that does horribly..."

That is the only sure thing! :-D

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

I didn't said Jean will be the enemy of the X-Men.

@hawk2916: @koays lol

where is @oldnightcrawler at?!?!?!?!?!??!

I'm not to sure what will happen when they go back. They are probably going to reboot some parts of the X-men franchise.

@hopesummersforthefuture: Lol the picture didn't load at first so I thought we were about to have some super secret top poster meeting......were not though...right?

:)

Now I understand: you were referring to ANXM 29. No, I don't think the Jean/Xorn will be the future of Teen Jean. I think that will be the future from which Teen Jean will escape and if I am right, the crossover Battle of the Atom makes sense: it is a prologue of a future story; like the first pages of Day of future past.

Just a moment it has not been announced the event "Years of future past"?

P.S. The Original 5 are definitiveli those of Earth 616: in Battle of atom 1 the death of Young Scott has almost erased Old Scott from existence. Fortunately Chrystopher was able to resurrect immediately Young Scott.

You mean, he can't be bothered. (:P)

Honestly, things will go back to normal. Clones will be sent back, or something like that, all mind wiped. Or they will go back and be mind wiped. Or they don't and the idea they can live simultaneously with their real selves in the future will continue to not cause havoc in the space/time continuum and Bendis will be around, dictating what happens to the X-Men for a long, long time.

time travel has always been fickle when it came to marvel.... but one constent that ive noticed is that when it does come to time travel, all trips into the past bring them to the 616 past (DoFp for prime example) when someone travels to the past regardless of which alternate future they come from they always wind up in the mainstream 616 past, so with that being said how can they not be the O5 from 616? when teen cyclops was killed didnt future/present scott vanish from existence briefly..... isnt future/present cyclops from 616?????

Oh man, this sounds so utterly crappy. I used to buy loads of comics, but I'm so fed up with these pointless storylines....reboots/restarts/whatever they're calling it. It's all so tiresome, leading to nowhere.

Definitely sticking with European comics and as for American comics, the titles that stand on their own, indeed something like Fables. And limited series, things like that. So that means away from the superhero stuff and you're good.

@xspectre28: that's just how physics works. If you change the beginning, even by the slightest, you get a different end. Basic principle of Chaos Theory. So even if the O5 are from 616 originally, which cattle has an amazing counter example to that claim, than the simple deviation of age difference when they go back would change their future, creating an alternate universe. And Scott's death from his younger self dying just shows BMB's ignorance in the field of elementary mathematics. You can say 1+2=2 all you want, but it doesn't make it any more axiomatic.

@dman1366: can't really argue with this clear logic. This is why I find it ridiculous that Marvel is on Bendis so hard that they would compromise in such a blatant and asinine way

@hawk2916: To give credit to him, I loved his first run on Ultimate Spider-Man/X-Men and Powers. He also has great ideas. I just do not think he implements them well. It is like a really bad case of ADD or something that is obvious in his writing. Everyone is on the gas, but nobody is on the breaks; and I honestly think that the editors are to blame there. Never had problems like the when Shooter was EiC

I don't see the Bendis' ignorance: Young Scott died, and Old Scott ceased to exist. But Christopher was able to bring back Young Scott and Old Scott can live again.
It's simply.

@ec2277: again, not possible. See my proof for reference. That is his ignorance I was referring to. That is equivalent to saying 2+3=4. And just because it is printed does not imply that it is true.

It is what it is. it's confirmed by Bendis and Canon. You just gotto deal with it.

@avenger85: that's very true. I have to deal with a lot lately hahaha

Ugh.

When I thought the O5 story was going somewhere I was interested.

But I am quickly learning benis' storys go nowhere very very slowly.

lol slow paced

The problem is that, it's really not canon. Bendis has tried to change the canon but simple logic from all time travel stories in all books, movies, whatever says something contrary to what Bendis woke up one morning and pulled out his ass.

I've said before that the guy has some good ideas but the execution is lacking. He should just pitch the stories and let someone else do the actual writing.

I'm inclined to agree with the hawk' on this one. Bendis can call what happens to the "O5" cannon, he can claim that they're the same characters from the 60's all he wants, but what he's already written them to contradict what happens in the original series, with or without time-travel as an explanation.

Him saying that the "O5" are the original X-men in cannon is basically saying that Lee and Kirby's version aren't, at which point what is and isn't cannon becomes arbitrary anyhow.

i think the o5 are going to be stuck in the present forever. 0.0

@hopesummersforthefuture I thought the same thing. This is the reason for what I asked:

If they aren't the Original 5 of Earth 616, they could stay in this reality without change the past.

It is a fascinating theory, isn't' it?

But I don't think it will be what will happen: in my view we will understand the Bendis' plot only with "Years of future past". In fact I think that will be the turning point of Bendis' run.

YoFP sounds awesome did you see now they have a AvX coming this summer 2015????

@hopesummersforthefuture Yes, I see.

To sum up next year we will have "No more mutants", "Black Vortex", "Years of future past" and "Avengers vs X-Men 2015".

I hope these are not all events. They really should dial back the events and just tell some decent stories. Maybe all this rehashing of the old stuff across the Avengers and Xmen is a part of the Secret Wars thing and maybe its just a bunch of alternate reality universes that are basically a what-if story. And the Black Vortex, really?!!! Yet another overpowering cosmic force and a crossover with GOTG.......sigh what the hell is wrong with these people

Correction: Black Vortex is in feb 2015 not summer 2015

This is an image from ANXM 22. Do you notice anything strange?