The Destruction Of The X-Men

#1 Posted by Pantherman (249 posts) - - Show Bio

I originally intended this topic to be "The Destruction of The Family Unit", but after some thought it wasn't really "eye catching".

I want to open a dialogue about the utter decimation of and utter blasphemous neglect and betrayal of the core principles and themes of the X-Men family of comics. These past years have seen Marvel remove the core, the heart of what made the X-Men such a dynamic, genuine and tragic group of characters to read. Now this is the thoughts of one man, but hear me out, take what I have to say and share with me opinion on what I perceive to be a complete stripping of the essence of the X-Men.

As the first mainstream comic series that I read, the X-Men had a profound effect on the way I viewed comic books. I'm reading this story about a mutant group adopting some strange man from Canada not only to assist in the rescue of members lost on a monstrous Island but to offer piece of mind to this wild man. I'm reading this story and I am having real emotional reactions to the events that come to pass, most of which are very tragic as X-Men comics are. Dominating any personal animosity this patchwork of weird strangers may have or had, was a bond that would allow them to exist in an increasingly hostile world and forge the foundation for their future. The X-Men are not, or at least were not, a superhero team. They were a group of mutants adopted into a family that was bound by an immeasurable love that has seen them through the worst of crisis. They were a family that fought for their very prolonged existence, a family that hurt when one of their own was lost whether it was the from the X-Men or the Brotherhood of Mutants, the death of a mutant always resonated and as a reader I could feel it because unlike the Avengers, unlike the Fantastic Four or the Defenders, the X-Men don't necessarily exist for the betterment or protection of human kind. The X-Men first and foremost exist for each other, mutant defending mutant, band together as the outside world conspires feverishly to their destruction .Their combat prowess and unmatched teamwork are manifestations of their love for each other, a metaphor of the deep bonds that bind all mutants in their struggle to keep each other sage and prosper.

The story arcs of the X-Men comics read more like tragic family dramas, and its easy to overlook the insanely amazing superpowers and the epic battles and become utterly gripped with the fear of uncertainty as Scott and Jean's relationship deteriorates. You know as the reader that this is no mere lovers quarrel, as the two most prominent and most respected mutants who's relationship was the symbol for stability and ultimately hope for the mutant kind separating has far more devastating consequences to the morale of the mutant community, as well as creating devastating weak points politically speaking for the mutant agenda of survival. When you the read grit your teeth as Cyclops and Wolverine went head to head. Two brothers, going toe to toe showing their strength, but each willing to die to save the other. This is what the X-Men are, they are a FAMILY. They disagree, they fight, but they stick together, not just for survival, but because they are mutants, and they know they are all they have and they fight to the bitter end for one another.

Here comes the issue, beginning with Chasm it seems that Marvel has become absolutely intent on destroying this family. The events that followed in Avengers vs. X-Men are absolutely unforgivable. In just a few issues Marvel took a family of mutants and turned them against each other in the face of their own survival. They turned the mutant population against Cyclops the mutant who's love for his people saw them through the decimation of the Scarlet Witch, brought them to Utopia and led them to Victory against Vampires, the Dark Avengers and saved them from being wiped out by sentinals from the future. The mutant that they have looked to for guidance for decades, the mutant that has countless times put his people before himself has now been abandoned by the very mutants he risked his life and sanity for time and time again because of his immense love for them. And for what? Because Ironman said so? So they can become Avengers? Are you kidding me? This is what it takes to turn a people that have stood down extinction together, that have lost dozens of comrades in the line a duty? What about those deaths? What about Night crawlers sacrifice? My god I am 28 years old and I cried when Kurt risked it all for Hope, because I understood why. I knew he was doing more than dying to protect hope, he was dying to protect the future of his family, and I felt it. I remembered when ol' Elf first joined the X-Men Family and his bond with Colossus and his sacrifice hurt that much more. Yet Marvel saw it fit for Hope to completely ignore that the X-Men and all mutants risked their existence to keep her alive and just ignore the unconditional love they gave her and turn on her own people just because the Avengers said to? Now the X-Men are scattered with many joining the Avengers and others forming their own teams!!!!!!!!!! The greatest FAMILY in Marvel has been destroyed, your thoughts?

#2 Posted by Lestenya (29 posts) - - Show Bio

I completely agree with you. I think a big contributing factor is that mutants in the marvel verse are now more acceptable than they once were. Before Chasm, and maybe even a few events before that, the X-Men banded together and formed these deep bonds because they didn't really have another option. They couldn't decide to join the Avengers or go out and public and be normal because a large portion of society hated them. Potential minor All New X-Men spoiler, but you really see this in #15 when young Scott and Bobby go out in public and and meet some people their age and only one person in a group of four freaks out that they're mutants. I think it's Scott makes the comment of how it's so strange for them to be accepted so easily by humans with them being from a time where all they had was each other.

Then again most of Marvel line is furthering itself more and more from the core of what they're about. Spider-Man is no longer the down on his luck guy who goes through the everyday troubles of the normal person, the Fantastic Four is no longer that dysfunctional family that is only held together be their love, the Avengers stopped being the superhero team that only comes together to fight the battles they can't do alone. Maybe that's just the day and age we live in now. People care less about character interaction and more about how big the bad guy is and how hard they punch.

#3 Edited by knighthood (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

The X-Men are not, or at least were not, a superhero team. They were a group of mutants adopted into a family that was bound by an immeasurable love that has seen them through the worst of crisis.

This. Very good points, even though I disagree the destruction of the family idea overall. The schism is just about an ideological shift between Cyclops and Wolverine. Sure they are pissed at each other, but they are more like estranged siblings other than outright enemies.

#4 Edited by poisonfleur (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh gawd-- Marvel ruined this discreetly and purposely. They took most of the magic from the X-men away to allow the Avengers shine in every aspect and way possibly.
Examples:
No more X-pool parties
no more holiday parties
no more baseball or basketball together
no more Jean
no more Xavier

no more Nightcrawler
no more Juggernaut

Storm (The mother of the X-men/moral compass) was removed from the x-men for a few years
Rogue's charm and appeal were taken away (Ms.Marvel's flight and strength, +her ability to be so close to everyone on the team without being able to touch anyone.)
Cyclops' morals have gone straight to H3LL (cheating on Jean, leading the x-men to ruin, and becoming a fugitive.)
Villains have such as Magik, Emma, Namor, Magneto, and others have become more important and call to many of the shots over the main characters: Storm, Rogue, Beast, Iceman.
Wolverine has also become an Attention Wh0re.
Too many of the best X-men characters are Avengers: Storm, Wolverine, Cannonball, Rogue, Havok, X-23, Scarlet Wtch, Quicksilver etc...
Lame Avengers are X-men: Namor, Ms. Marvel...
The depowering of key family members on M-day.
Storm isn't seen portraying Kitty as a daughter anymore or Colossus as brother.
Cyclops doesn't treat Rachel like a daughter or Hope as a granddaughter.
Wolverine could treat x-23 and Jubilee a little more like daughters.
The only book where the x-men are portrayed as a family is in Wolverine and the X-men-- and we have more X-book now than ever..
Too much focus is on Cyclops, Emma, and Wolverine.. I think it may be changing. but those 3 aren't family-- they are DRAMA!

and most importantly

Past character's histories and relationships are being blatantly ignored. Please writers of Marvel read Claremont old work like Fall of Mutants, Lifedeath, or other great arcs like those.

#5 Edited by HAWK2916 (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with most of all of this. Im trying to hold on but I keep going back and reading the old stories to get my x-kick. I think the schism had to be the stupidest event out there. Imo it would have been better to make schism about the different viewpoints of the phoenix. I almost wish that they would just find a way to pull a team back in the past and just start over. Call it classic xmen. The team would be Cyclops.Storm.Jean Grey. Wolverine. Gambit. Rogue.Colossus.Kitty Pryde. and Nightcrawler. Just go from there

#6 Posted by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

#7 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (5894 posts) - - Show Bio

I also don't like the idea about the X-Men splitting up like this, especially when they act like they never had any kind of relationship with each other. I just hope that the X-Men reunite with each other in the future and the old relationships come back to shine again. I also hope the X-Men start treating each other like a family again like they did years ago. I understand what Schism is for, but I still miss the X-Men being a family again and I honestly don't want anyone hurt in this break up.

#8 Posted by Chapmar (192 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with some points but disagree entirely with schism. The X books had become stagnant and it was schism that breathed life into the core of the X-men and the characters. Wolverine and Cyclops actually went hell for glory on each other and they didn't back down, this was actual character development and not mere posturing anymore. Comics need to evolve and characters need to grow and I firmly believe that the soil is more fertile and rich to tell good X men stories than ever before.

I mean reading Uncanny X-men is actually like signing up for a revolution, I kept looking over at my Avengers stack in case they were going to arrest me when I was reading it. Seeing characters like Magik and Magneto actually being explored on a level more than "I am evil, har har" is great, and heroes like cyclops and Emma are blurring the lines between good and bad, surviving solely on our belief that they are good people. Utopia, san fran etc. all these locales became too safe for the trials and tribulations of the protagonists. Utopia was a complete road block of a story because everything had to be concentrated there.

I much prefer Cyclops as the hardliner, the one willing to put what has been continually shoved in his face and say no more. This is a man who could have a son such as cable, a man willing to do whatever it takes to protect his people. Scott has been training his entire life for this and seeing him develop his own dream for mutants is a perfect story, no longer in Xavier's or Eric's shadows.

And The X-men are not superheroes, Cyclops is not interested in stopping thanos on far flung planets, his entire goal is the survival and existence of mutants. This is exactly the core of what the X-men books have been debating for years, what was is best to be a mutant. Xavier's way was one viewpoint and too many are taking this as the only way, not just his way.

#9 Edited by HAWK2916 (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@chapmar said:

I agree with some points but disagree entirely with schism. The X books had become stagnant and it was schism that breathed life into the core of the X-men and the characters. Wolverine and Cyclops actually went hell for glory on each other and they didn't back down, this was actual character development and not mere posturing anymore. Comics need to evolve and characters need to grow and I firmly believe that the soil is more fertile and rich to tell good X men stories than ever before.

I mean reading Uncanny X-men is actually like signing up for a revolution, I kept looking over at my Avengers stack in case they were going to arrest me when I was reading it. Seeing characters like Magik and Magneto actually being explored on a level more than "I am evil, har har" is great, and heroes like cyclops and Emma are blurring the lines between good and bad, surviving solely on our belief that they are good people. Utopia, san fran etc. all these locales became too safe for the trials and tribulations of the protagonists. Utopia was a complete road block of a story because everything had to be concentrated there.

I much prefer Cyclops as the hardliner, the one willing to put what has been continually shoved in his face and say no more. This is a man who could have a son such as cable, a man willing to do whatever it takes to protect his people. Scott has been training his entire life for this and seeing him develop his own dream for mutants is a perfect story, no longer in Xavier's or Eric's shadows.

And The X-men are not superheroes, Cyclops is not interested in stopping thanos on far flung planets, his entire goal is the survival and existence of mutants. This is exactly the core of what the X-men books have been debating for years, what was is best to be a mutant. Xavier's way was one viewpoint and too many are taking this as the only way, not just his way.

I agree with some of this as far as Cyclops and his change. Im all for it, though I must say its not being written well because again nobody seems to be able to tell me what this mutant revolution is about and the story has been dragging a bit, though that's changed somewhat lately.

I do think comics should grow but I hate the contradictions. Schism while maybe a decent concept as far as splitting the teams and ideals was not executed well. In fact IMO AVX should have encompassed Schism and something like the Civil War story. It would have been a more complete story and a more profound event if the AVX story wasn't just about the Phoenix. It could have been a component of the story, maybe starting with the enforcing or maybe the re-enforcing of the Mutant Registration Act, many of the Xmen refusing to do it while others want the path of least resistance, add to that the return of the Pheonix with maybe Jean Grey returning ( I Know, I know, bringing her back again and again is stupid, but you could make so she never died in New Xmen and maybe her essence or spirit existed on the astral plane or she was wisked away at the moment of the planetary stroke, and bring her back since she's a character most people care about much more than Hope) and the Avengers wanting to stop or contain her while some Xmen feel she should be killed once and for all others don't, then I think the story is much stronger. But again that's just my thoughts. Overall I still Schism was a bad story and kind of a stupid reason to split up. The reason just could have been better. I would be in favor of a more gradual decent into a schism for a number of reasons vs. Wolverine walking around calling Scott "boss" and them paying each other complements one second then going balls to the wall fighting the next.

#10 Edited by batmannflash (6224 posts) - - Show Bio

I totally agree with the OP. I miss how the X-Men were before.

#11 Posted by Wolverine08 (42828 posts) - - Show Bio

I totally agree with the OP. I miss how the X-Men were before.

Online
#12 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (5894 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@chapmar said:

I agree with some points but disagree entirely with schism. The X books had become stagnant and it was schism that breathed life into the core of the X-men and the characters. Wolverine and Cyclops actually went hell for glory on each other and they didn't back down, this was actual character development and not mere posturing anymore. Comics need to evolve and characters need to grow and I firmly believe that the soil is more fertile and rich to tell good X men stories than ever before.

I mean reading Uncanny X-men is actually like signing up for a revolution, I kept looking over at my Avengers stack in case they were going to arrest me when I was reading it. Seeing characters like Magik and Magneto actually being explored on a level more than "I am evil, har har" is great, and heroes like cyclops and Emma are blurring the lines between good and bad, surviving solely on our belief that they are good people. Utopia, san fran etc. all these locales became too safe for the trials and tribulations of the protagonists. Utopia was a complete road block of a story because everything had to be concentrated there.

I much prefer Cyclops as the hardliner, the one willing to put what has been continually shoved in his face and say no more. This is a man who could have a son such as cable, a man willing to do whatever it takes to protect his people. Scott has been training his entire life for this and seeing him develop his own dream for mutants is a perfect story, no longer in Xavier's or Eric's shadows.

And The X-men are not superheroes, Cyclops is not interested in stopping thanos on far flung planets, his entire goal is the survival and existence of mutants. This is exactly the core of what the X-men books have been debating for years, what was is best to be a mutant. Xavier's way was one viewpoint and too many are taking this as the only way, not just his way.

...or they're the best superheroes. But yeah, either way they're something that the term superhero doesn't fully cover.

I totally agree with all these points, by the way. And I'm glad to see there are still readers interested in seeing the characters change and grow.

#14 Posted by CheeseSticks (2495 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked the diversity within the titles that Schism brought a long, as up until that point, you couldn't really find character B without character A hogging up the panel time, i.e Cyclops or Wolverine--so i'd rather them not get back together, not anytime soon. Change happens, obviously, the actual story of Schism was horrible and made no sense.

And they're still a family, read Wood's X-Men.

#16 Edited by HAWK2916 (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

The diversity is cool. But I agree with you on the Schism story, the outcome is just fine but the story itself was terrible. Many don't like the portrayal of the Avengers in AVX but in all honesty, Schism had a horrible portrayal of Wolverine.

I thought the story while stupid to begin with was already rushed. For Schism to have been a great event I would have thought that the actual start or undertones of Schism should have started earlier and just gradually built into a split. Not just some random all of a sudden I can take this anymore wimpy move by Wolverine

#17 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that a certain element of this comes from the simple fact that characters must be challenged and tormented to generate drama, and for a strong ensemble team that means the bonds in that "family" need to be attacked. Yes, it should lead to newer strong bonds developing, but after years of story arcs and challenges this can lead to attrition.

I would point to Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run as a wonderful example of a reaffirming or regrounding of the X-Men following the pulling apart of the team. I would point to Schism as another escalation or challenge thrown in the path. But that wasn't the first time this happened, and the "good ol' days" had internal spats as much as ever (e.g., X-Factor vs. X-Men). The familial moments are still there if you know where to look. The Wolverine/Jubilee scenes in the latest X-Men issue for example.

#18 Posted by Chapmar (192 posts) - - Show Bio

Schism worked for me because it was this thing that was an undercurrent all along. I don't like the way event stories need a 'prelude to Schism' or 'prelude to civil war' that sums up exactly what is going on.

I believe that Schism had much more of a natural element to it than something like Civil War which really did just pop out of nowhere. Look at Cyclops using Wolverine as his personal kill squad, as well as wolverines continual descent into the next iteration of X Factor. I like that Cyclops began using people as pawns because he had no choice but to ensure the survival of his race, and that is when Wolverine had a pure Wolverine moment and turned on someone he respected probably as much as charles Xavier. Remember that Wolverine is exactly like this, this is who he is, he does what no one else will. Despite Cyclops saving and keeping the mutants alive, Wolverine was adamant (ium - ha) that he was doing it the wrong way and no one else would stand up and say it. And I really think it is almost the opposite of a wimpy move by Wolverine to stand against those he considers a family more than anyone else!

I think that AvX is more of an X-men story than a marvel universe story despite their limited time in the book. It becomes less about the phoenix and more about the plight of mutants and how far characters will go to ensure their future, the phoenix is just a platform on which to construct this dissection. It is great to see the Avengers have to try face the mutant problem and have no idea how to tackle it other than imprison them all, yet this is the situation that Scott and Logan must make every day decisions in!

What does living in a pressure cooker result in? In friends fighting friends and internal struggles like Schism.

#19 Posted by acer51 (2237 posts) - - Show Bio

To the Op I feel your passion and your suffering but people change, even in comic books the status quo can't remain the same forever, characters have to change sometimes for the worse. I might be saying this because I'm one of the rare people who became a Cyclops fan after AvX, AvX really showed me how much of a Bad-A$$ Cyclops was, I realize that he's been going down the darker path lately but that's kind of made the character more appealing to me. He's in part embraced the Magneto school of thought which is actually the more realistic and mature reasoning, Magnetos problem was he stooped to murder. If Cyclops maintains basic moral integrity while adopting some of Magnetos more down to earth polices he can lead to mutants to survival. But anyway the OP is right this might be the destruction of the X-men- as we know it. But there will always be Mutants and there will always be somone fighting for them.

#20 Edited by HAWK2916 (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

As Ive said I agree a lot with what the original poster mentioned. I do think the Schism event was profound and was needed to shake up the status-quo so to speak, but that being said the story was weak and is generally not a favorite among fans. I understand all the concept and cultural issues and back stories but the delivery was still weak. I felt Wolverine was and is being portrayed as wimpy, not that he actually is but current writers, in the X-books IMO are not portraying his character properly. From book to book and story to story he's a walking contradiction. Im not sure hows he's being portrayed in his solo series because I don't read solos but in the X-bboks and even in Uncanny Avengers I hate hows he's written. Personally I've had Cyclops, Wolverine and Gambit as my favorites and I love Cyclops persona at the moment. Gambit is not hardly being used and Wolverine is just...... meh.

#21 Posted by Chapmar (192 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem with Wolverine is that there are just too many writers that are using him, it is nigh on impossible for him to remain a consistent character if 17 writers have him in different books a week.

#22 Edited by phisigmatau (520 posts) - - Show Bio

Agree on basically all accounts. They have butchered such an awesome group and its core values. The X-men's morality was always their most awesome aspect. Oh well.

#23 Posted by HAWK2916 (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@chapmar said:

The problem with Wolverine is that there are just too many writers that are using him, it is nigh on impossible for him to remain a consistent character if 17 writers have him in different books a week.

Good point there. In fact Marvel should make it a rule that any one character can only be in 2 books at a time and it needs to be edited or even collaborated to make sure both writers are remaining true to the character

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