Teen jean was able to survive a battle with her older self, though obviously xorn let her younger counterpart win just to make a point. With teen jean's new powerset, will she be able to take down the hive mind? She hasn't really trained yet but she has way much stronger raw power than the cuckoos combined plus she can siphon psychic energy now. will the cuckoos' tp expertise and combined power be enough to take on teen jean?

Lol Teen Jean is a Mary Sue.

Any of the logical reasons the Cuckoo's should have an advantage over her or be able to impede her in anyway mean nothing when Bendis just makes her stronger every panel with little explanation.

@koays: my notifications isnt working

@koays: also do u find it weird that the cuckoos never grew up in HCT. Are they like wolverine and dont age fast?????

She's an omega level mutant with limitless potential for power, so he doesn't really need to explain sudden bursts of power. That type of thing tends to happen to people that don't have a power cap, if they hit a wall they can draw on unlocked power and break through the wall if they try hard enough.

@hopesummersforthefuture:

The Cuckoos are (were) supposed to be part of the weapons plus program, slowed down aging to the point of being nigh immortal seems to be the standard, and I believe it was mentioned in HCT by Beast/Sublime that mutants become immortal, unstoppable supermen if left unchecked, as Beak and Angel had a grandson that was alive 150 years in the future.

oh ok ty

@lordofallhumans: Yea that's the excuse everyone has been throwing around and I'm not willing to except it or any other speculative answers when it comes to changes made to the O5 anymore.

This is a story, Bendis needs to write his explanations in the story. He can't expect us to sight continuity that says Jean is supposed to be so powerful when there's continuity that could argue against it just as easily.

You can't just say she's a telepath When she's not supposed to be one or that she's beating more experienced and powerful psychics. Or that she is getting new abilities or that she can just do things without any training whatsoever.

Idk if they have even referenced Xaviers mental blocks in the book, but the idea that she's reached this uber tier in 4months without Xavier Raises to many questions about Xavier's competence and why despite being in the field as an X-Men for years she was never pushed to these limits. And I won't even get into Bobby and why just saying Omega as an explanation for creating living snow monsters is illogical.

Wow sorry to rant....But my frustration with the writing of this book has peaked. Its just not cool that even with extensive knowledge on X-Men and their characters you have to subscribe to Bendis Google alerts just to understand whats happening. When really he's basically made 40s Superman an expert at social media and convinced us that he told us why it made sense.

@hopesummersforthefuture: I'd also be skeptical about any of the mutants and things in that story. Aside from the White Phoenix I don't think any of the hints in that story have been touched on or referenced. There are some things about Cassandra Nova in there that just never had any follow up. And as preciously mentioned theirs Tito who wouldve very old.

This may just be one of those things Marvel just doesn't care to follow up on when it comes to Morrison's work. Though we could always say the cuckoo's spent a few decades in diamond form until we get an answer.

@koays: The Cuckoos managed to defeat an inexperienced young Jean while adult Jean/Xorn without the phoenix was very experience and even powerful than Emma Frost.

@homhorror: when did they defeat teen Jean?

And Emma didn't have powers when she fought Xorn Jean

@koays: They defeated her in ANXM issue eleven when she was trying to prevent Warren from leaving.

@koays: Emma Frost was receiving some of the Cuckoo's powers to boost her own in the psyhic battle because her's were broken.

@homhorror: Again not her powers. Emma losing when not having her own powers doesn't mean much. We know that the Cuckoo's aren't as strong as Xorn and Emma was tossed around by them once they realized she didn't have her powers. We pretty much saw what happened as each of the cuckoos were dropped one by one and Emma got creamed because she had no powers.

Cuckoo's just blasted her if I recall it wasn't really a long exchange. Since then Jeans had more then a few bumps in feats including the exchange with Xavier Jr where she performed a good deal better then they did.

@koays: Not really because Jean was trying to fight them back.

@koays: We don't know what the outcome would have been if Emma Frost wasn't depowered.

@homhorror: I'll have to look back at the issue. But like I said, that was before Bota,Trial, and the return of Xavier Jr.....other then lady mastermind (unless that was post Warren) Teen Jean hadnt faced a telepath yet.

@homhorror: That was my whole point... We don't know so it doesn't count as doing something impressive on Xorn's part.

Its heavily implied and supported that Emma is stronger then the Cuckoos with her full powers (though they say they've gotten stronger recently) but we have no proof. So its not a feat except that Emma Frosts skills alone weren't able to help her team overcome Xorn Jean.

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

HCT?

P.S. and O.T. How old is Kitty?

Reading All New X-Men seems she is the same age of Teen Jean.

@ec2277: HCT is "Here Comes Tomorrow" the storyline from the end of Morrison's run where we see what the world was going to be like in the future following Xorneto and Jean's death.

Kitty is in her early to mid twenties. 23 I believe was a best estimate at one time. Don't let Bendis' dialogue fool you on that one.

@koays: Thank you.

About "Here comes tomorrow", I get that in the very moment when you are answered me.

Bendis?

I'm going to hate also him.

@ec2277: Hey, I don't advocate hating Bendis.

I am immensely enjoying his Uncanny run(I even gave the last issue a 10/10 in the Recent Subjects thread).

But All New X-Men is a poor book that amplifies all of the problems he has as a writer. It ignores a lot of continuity, doesn't answer questions and has a very bad habit of making you question why these characters are here. Its very poor on development and most of our questions are answered on forums or on his tumblr instead of being explained on panel.

I don't hate Bendis, but I hate All New X-Mens flaws because its so important to the X-books now that I have to buy it so that in 5 years when I wanna retrace a plotline I won't be scratching my head trying to figure out where some thing came from.

@koays: I am totally agree with you.

His Uncanny X-Men is a good book, but his All New X-Men have a poor development, even if it start from an interesting idea and also his work on Teen Jean is interesting, although I think it can be done better. In fact my "I'm going to hate also him", was reported just to the develop of All New X-Men.

P.S Is panel the page with the arts and dialogues of the comic book, right?

lets not pretend that emma even with her powers functioning properly would stand a chance against a fully realized jean

@ec2277: Panel is each individual scene on a page in the book. So Yea.

And I promise you I reread it from the beginning and realized that most of my knowledge on the elements in the story comes from either fan theories or @Hopesummersforthefuture posting things that Bendis said on his twitter when people asked him about.

But yea I feel the same way about teen Jean. She started off great but somewhere along the way she stopped being developed and really hasn't changed despite 2 story arcs focusing on her. Her powers have gotten stronger but she just goes back and fourth between crying "I don't want my future" and "Come on guys I'm taking charge let's do this",without really explaining these transitions. She's become less and less of a character.

@marvelfan1992: (assuming that was directed at my comment) Probably not. But the idea that Emma loses a fight without her powers and that's going to be sighted as a mark of power is extremely unfair.

Its like Superman fighting the Hulk and instead of using his wide array of powers an advantages....he shoots Bruce Banner with a tranq dart before he transforms.

@koays said:

1) Then this is a page with 6 panels, right?

Thank you very much.

2) Perfect!

I hate the idea to have to ask him something about his book in a forum or in a blog, because I think that a writer have to give to his readers all the informations that they need, in his books.

3) I agree; again.

@ec2277 said:

@koays said:

@ec2277: And I promise you I reread it from the beginning and realized that most of my knowledge on the elements in the story comes from either fan theories or @Hopesummersforthefuture posting things that Bendis said on his twitter when people asked him about. Panel is each individual scene on a page in the book. So Yea.

2) And I promise you I reread it from the beginning and realized that most of my knowledge on the elements in the story comes from either fan theories or @Hopesummersforthefuture posting things that Bendis said on his twitter when people asked him about.

[…]

1) Then this is a page with 6 panels, right?

Thank you very much.

2) Perfect!

I hate the idea to have to ask him something about his book in a forum or in a blog, because I think that a writer have to give to his readers all the informations that they need, in his books.

1- Yes. Exactly that.

2- I feel exactly the same way as someone who takes story telling pretty serious. And I feel like in 10 years when people are recommending this book we'll be explaining Jeans mental blocks, Omega Level mutants and a dozen other things that had to be asked about because the work either doesn't flesh them out or doesn't explain them at all...which is weird for a book that's supposed to be a jumping on point.

The cuckoos didn't and hasn't defeated teen jean yet because there's still no actual fight to begin with. they did a blind attack on teen jean and emma stopped the attack. the case is different now, jean has a new powerset.
Also, it is not really clear if xavier jr junior's attack was effective on her because she said something like...I can not believe you're using your psychic powers on me (meaning, his psychic powers are just boosting her powers up)

It is not clear if xavier jr had even gone psychic training with xorn, if he did, it was just for an ample time.

This is not the case with the coockus. The cuckoos are well trained and have the strength of a hive mind. This could give them leverage in bringing down jean. I think the only way they could take down jean is if they'll be strong enough to manipulate their way into controlling jean in the astral plane. This would be near impossible though because, the moment they use their psychic powers, jean would just become stronger and their diamond forms would not help them either

does jean literally just feed off of any psychic energy? Like if you try to read her mind with TP she can get a power boost from that? If someone tries to blast her with TK or throw her with TK she can absorb it and get stronger?

Jean Grey

@darthphoenix: I'm gonna need a scan on that one. The way I remember it she was struggling while Xavier jr was attacking her and called X23 for help.

These are bits and pieces but I think it kinda sums it up. lemme know if you need the complete fight.

Basically she makes a direct attack on Xjr and it isnt working then she contacts laura and has her sneak attack xavier then when hes distracted she transforms into her purple form then ass whooping. She mentions that Xjr didnt know about her power coz if he did he wouldnt have been throwing all his psychic power at the x-men

@martinceld: Gotcha. Thanks.

I'm not ready to make any comments on what she can or can't do....especially in relation to the Cuckoo's. Not when Xavier Jr. Powered through what shouldve been end game by her own explanation

Precisely my point. everyone exudes psychic energy. The only difference between psychics and non-psychics are the psychic energy of psychics are much stronger. the same thing happened during the trial of jean grey. she fed on the psychic energies of everyone around her and used it against gladiator.

The issue I tried to raise here is that teen jean is not yet adept in a psi-battle in the astral plane. That is where xavier jr took her and tried to subdue her. In the process though, jean was able to feed on psychic energy giving her strength to shield her thoughts from xavier, hence giving her the chance to contact laura without xavier seeing right through her. bringing me to the question, would the tp expertise of the cuckoos be enough to outplay the raw power of jean who becomes stronger every second that they use their combined psychic powers?

@darthphoenix: From what we saw...yea.

Xavier Jr was dominatng and it took ALOT of distractions and assist for her to overcome him. and really it was only the fact that she caught him off guard that did it. The Cuckoo's are up there in power and skill so on paper they should be able to beat her even with her powers doing whatever it is that they do....

Still though there's too much contradiction in Bendis' depictions for that to even be 100%. Because Teen Jean beat Xorn Jean in a astral battle that the Cuckoo's got massacred in early on. So really it's hard to answer either way.

@koays: He still manage to overwhelm her while her newly capabilities were activated.

I thought the general consensus was that xorn jean lost on purpose to teen jean in order to fuel her plans?

@martinceld: I don't think: in "Battle of the atom 10" Teen Jean said to Xorn Jean: «What's wrong with your powers?», before the death of the latter. It's like Xorn Jean has been consumed by her powers and that has consequently reduced her powers.

Lol everytime i've read a comment in this thread I feel like I missed an issue..... but this is just what i mean by the majority of the things we know about the book being "Fannon" or post from a blog

How did losing that fight further anything she was trying to do? The brotherhoods plans were backwards....but they weren't that backwards

@ec2277: How would that reduced her powers?

Maybe similar to the way Cyclops powers being broken go from SUPER OPTIC CANNON to mini eye gun at random?

@homhorror said:

I suppose it could be something like a muscular lesion: if you have a muscle lesioned, your strength will be diminished. In the same way if the brain of Xorn Jean is "consumed" in some way, also her power will be diminished.

@koays: Xorn stated that her powers kept enchancing to the point where she had to wear the suit to keep them contain.

I don't get it. the only reason why xorn's powers were decreasing was because she was getting old. Teen jean had more raw power because of her youth

@darthphoenix: Her powers didn't decrease. They overloaded to the point where she couldn't gain control, which took her own life in the process.

@darthphoenix: @homhorror: On panel Xorn Jean was inconsistent. I'm just saying if she couldn't control her powers then it could be a factor in her losing a fight against a weaker opponent. She can have the psionic equivalent of the sun but if she can't fully control where its aiming then maybe thats how she lost the fight.

There is continuity that can argue for it. The first being that for better or for worse she has been an omega level mutant since the term came around to mean mutants with unlimited potential for power. It has been known that, she constantly held back power that was already hers to use, so it's its not hard to imagine that a younger version that is not trained in restraint that is part of the Xavier experience would be able to tap that power.

That's the thing though, she is supposed to be a telepath, she always was, she just didn't have access to it. The real bad writing with Jeen IMO is that she didn't know she was a telepath, when we know that is the first power she manifested and was the reason she even met Xavier to begin with. She isn't beating other telepaths when it comes to any skilled use of telepath, but in a telepathic brawl she really shouldn't have much trouble summoning more power than the more experienced ones

That's the point, her not pushing past those blocks in the past is directly related to the presence of Xavier. This Jean has not been an X-man long enough to learn about the restraint the other was taught, nor do we know the extent of the blocks or if they were something they needed periodic maintenance from Xavier. When Jean originally became Phoenix before it was turned into a cosmic force she did it by pushing past her limits and becoming powerful enough to become a being of pure thought/psi and was now able to manipulate matter on levels she never thought possible, with no training. It's not illogical because mutants being able to do things without training if they know they have the power is not a foreign concept. Franklin and Nate had no training, but had the potential and power to do basically anything they could think of. Why is it so hard to believe that Bobby doesn't need to be trained to do something that he is aware he can do if he just tries hard enough? Bobbys biggest draw back was that he was never interested in using his powers for more than making ice, and that was the only barrier to his true potential, the moment the adult Bobby started to become interested in doing more he was able to do more. Adult Jean is the same, the minute she decided to embrace her powers she started using more power than she normally did. Neither of them is showing skill only power, that we know they both have in spades. Nobody taught Franklin how to create pocket universes he just did it, because it's within his power to do so. Nobody told Nate he could pull astral forms into the physical world he just did it because he tried to do it, just like he didn't know he could create phantom beings or limbs, but he certainly had the power so it happened.

It's cool tell em why you mad son lol. But looking at what we know Bobby and Jean are capable of power wise it's not a huge leap that the younger versions only needed to realize they can do more if they just try.

bobby is an omega level mutant to so that explains how he just tried to do it and it worked

@lordofallhumans: i couldn't agree more.