What I mean by the title is should the powers of Mutants be solely to do with an evolution in their bodies Wolverine is a great example of this as his Mutant power is his enhanced senses, bone claws and regeneration. All of his powers could be put down to biological means (Only if we are stretching it a bit though).

Someone like Storm however doesn't have too much of a biological explanation as to how she controls the weather.

This was something that bugged me about the X-Men is that it seems that their powers should work based on the mutation in their DNA so it should be something that the body itself produces.

And just because I felt like posting it I made a list of Mutants whose powers work biologically, or can be changed slightly to work biologically and those that don't.

Cyclops: Can be changed slightly from the portal in his eyes to something his body produces.

Shadow Cat: Works

Iceman: Works

Beast: Works

Scarlet Witch: Doesn't work and I have no idea how they could be explained biologically

Quicksilver: Works

Rogue: Could be changed to only working on people with an X-Gene (this one doesn't really matter too much I just think it would make more sense)

Now I know Marvel won't ever change this but I was just wondering if this could be the difference between Mutants and Meta humans in the Marvel Universe had it been like this when they were first introduced.

Sorry for long post.

I know it hasn't been long but I'm just gonna bump it anyway.

Intresting concept. And i think an alternate universe or story of this would be cool. However I'm willing to suspend my belief in comics for things like this

This.

Well only using purely biological powers would severely limit what creators could do with new characters. Eventually they'd run out of things to do with the purely biological.

Powers that are psionic in nature can be explained biologically as being enhancements of the brain. Storms powers are psionic in nature, and the fact that a mutation happens gentically all mutations are biological. How exactly does Kittys powers behave biologically in the way you are presenting it? There would be no way I could think of that would explain how she can become intangible outside of some kind of psionic manipulation of her bodies molecules, same with Iceman. Cyclops power allows him to biologically metabilize solar enegy, which provides the energy needed to open a portal.

oh, okay. I was just going to ask about telepathy and telekinesis, but I guess those would fall psionic powers?

cool, thanks.

No they shouldn't, its fake, kind of make its fun, why uh hinder what they are doing?

@tikhunt: That always sort of bothered me about the X-Men as well. Storm controlling the weather is just completely not something that any animal has ever evolved to do. The closest real world explanation is that she can somehow control nitrogen on an atomic level, but on a huge scale.

I know that this is an issue but I was just thinking it could be the difference between Mutants and Metas. I know it won't happen but I thought that it would be interesting to think about.

Oh you see I didn't know they were psionic in nature that makes more sense. This is aimed more towards Mutants whose powers are explained by magic etc. Some examples to this would be Scarlet Witch, Magik, Pixie.

But again with the Storm thing I guess it would make more sense on the mutation side of things if her body discharged electricity from certain cells in her body, or she can higher the temperature to create a heatwave by messing with her internal homeostasis. Honestly I am just chucking out ideas here.

It's just when you think of a mutation do you think a biological mutation to the extent where your body develops a physical enhancement to help combat dangers around you or do you think of being able to somehow call lightning down from the sky?

Also I probably shouldn't of used the word 'Works' and probably used the words 'Can be explained biologically'. With Kitty it could be explained that her body allows her to slightly alter her atomic structure to allow her molecules to pass through things.

With the Cyclops portal thingy, I always thought that his eyes metabolized solar energy and it kinda just shot it straight back out in a concussive force and all the glasses did was stop his eyes from getting that solar energy. When I found out about the portals in his eyes I seriously couldn't comprehend how a body would make that.

No I am not saying they should hinder it what I am saying is when they were first called Mutants back during their creation should the X-Men have only had biological mutations. It worked with the original X-Men because Beast became more agile like a gorilla, Angel grew wings, Ice-man could alter his temperature, Jean's could be explained by her brain being able to emit certain frequencies from her mind as that is what her body mutated for her to do. Honestly I think the reason that I have an issue with this is because they are called Mutants, so one would assume some part of thier body had a biological mutation.

Read the above paragraph.

@tikhunt: So, the only ones that don't work would be Scarlet Witch, Colossus, Longshot, Domino?

@oldnightcrawler: No there are some others and Colossus I believe could be explained biologically. I dunno how Nightcrawlers are explained. The issue is I don't know every mutant ability ever. I dunno how Gambit charging up objects could be explained biologically and as I think I said I don't think Rogues would 'work' as I put it when it's on such a huge scale what she can do.

Edit: Also Hope Summers' power mimicking couldn't be explained biologically as far as I know. Although I thought just now that Rogues could be explained by her body somehow reads the X-Gene in a Mutant and temporarily mimics the X-Gene. As I said earlier though it should only work on people who have suffered a mutation of some sort.

@oldnightcrawler: Why doesn't Colossus work?

@backflip: As far as I know it does.

@backflip:

The reason I said Colossus was because he transforms into "organic steel"; besides not being organic, steel is an alloy and thus does not exist in nature without being manufactured.

Nightcrawler and Magik's powers of teleportation are explained by them being able to access other dimensions, so if you consider Cyclops' powers to be organic, theirs should count too. And if telepaths, telekinetics, pyrokinetics, etc, count, then Gambit's should too.

Is it actual steel or something similar to steel?

Also once again dimensional portals wouldn't 'work'. Also I didn't say Cyclops' did work I said if they took the portal explanation away it would.

Telepaths would 'work' imho due to thier brains being genetically altered to a regular persons to emit frequencies and pick up the frequencies from other peoples brains, telekinetiks I don't think would 'work', neither would pyrokinetiks in my opinion. Although if one were to be able to change their homeostasis signals in thier bodies to cause self immolation it could work.

But to be honest this wasn't meant to be a thread detailing who should and shouldn't be Mutants it was just a question as to whether or not they should have been biological in nature to make that the difference between meta-humans and Homo-superior.

1. it's only ever referred to as "organic steel"
2. alright, sure.
3. then how do Iceman or Kitty work?
4. in the story, all mutant powers are biological in nature.

@oldnightcrawler:

1. I guess it could be explained by his molecules changing to for a hard metal as strong as steel.

3. With Kitty it could be explained that she can slightly alter the molecules of the body to fit around the molecules in other things while still retaining her basic molecular structure. Her body could do this as a reaction to an eletrical charge reaching a part of the brain that normal humans don't use.

With Iceman he could maybe trick his body into thinking it is a lot warmer than it is making his internal homeostasis to make his temperature extremely cold allowing the water vapor in the air around him to freeze giving him that frozen look.

4. While that may be true some of the powers don't come across as an evolutionary trait and more like what a normal meta-human may have.

They used to explain that Bobby could drop his temp. by overriding the part of his brain that regulates body temp, allowing him to convert latent thermal energy in and around his body into some unknown energy which in turns allows him to manipulate "cold". When explained this way cold becomes an energy instead of the absence of heat, makes it harder for people to believe, but then again darkness is also a force in the Marvel universe and not just the absence of light.

I don't think there's any president for that in nature.

see above for both of these.

If you're basing these on things actually found in nature (like actual evolutionary traits are), almost none of the X-men's power's would apply.

Maybe Wolverine. Beast, Angel, Banshee (though he wouldn't fly), arguably Mystique, but very few others. Even Spider-man's powers fit in more with this idea than most X-men. Honestly, I think your concept of what counts as biological here seems pretty arbitrary.

In reality, most X-men characters have powers based on ideas from mythology or folklore, and simply use random, rapid evolution and sci-fi pseudo-science as the explanation that best suits the story, insofar as the characters themselves are supposed to be exactly like humans except for their powers. That any real science can be applied to them is mostly a product of fantasy itself.

@oldnightcrawler: The thing is the second part of your statement is what I was aiming for in terms of this should Mutants have powers which wholly come from a evolutionary trait or a mutation with one part of the body? So the genetic structure in the skin is different so it forms a steel like substance in it's place or heightened senses etc. It's hard to think about at the moment because we are so used to seeing them like this but if you were to create a group of beings whose powers were formed due to a mutation in the DNA, without the X-men laser beams from the eyes wouldn't be something that came to mind at all.

In the cases of Wanda, Magik and Pixie them having magic has nothing to do with being mutants. Wanda was infused with magic at birth before she manfested an active X-gene, Magik learned magic before her mutant power manifested and Pixie was taught a spell by Magik and in her case since she is supposed to be half faery any genetic link she has to magic would come from her being related to a race of magical beings.

I didn't know that. Does that mean Wanda is technically not a Mutant?

If I was in charge of a a reboot I would go with a similar route.

@dernman: Nice to know that some people do agree with me.

@tikhunt:

No she is a mutant, she inherited an Xgene from her father, if not infused with demon magic she would have been an energy manipulator like Magneto, instead she was able to manipulate quasi-psionic reality warping energies to manipulate probablities and reality, but she is stil a mutant.

@lordofallhumans: Thanks for the info although this thread isn't too much about who should and shouldn't be a mutant. What are your views on the original question may I ask?

I understand the topic, my view is that since the Xgene is genetic there is already a biological explaination for all mutants power regardless of them being present in nature. IMO trying to find natural explanations for their powers, is not really evolution. Wolverine and Beast for instance have animal characteristics. With regards to humans, showing such primal features is the opposite of evolution if you believe that humans evolved from primates. One of Beasts greatest fears was that his mutation was causing him to devovle and become less human.

@lordofallhumans: I think you may have fallen into the trap of still thinking about the X-Men as they are.

What?

@tikhunt: rogue would probably work too

Yeah, I think I see what you mean. It sort of reminds me of that John Wyndham novel I read in high school, The Crysalids (1955) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chrysalids . If you haven't read it, I think you might find it interesting. And, supposedly, it was some of Stan Lee's inspiration for inventing the X-men.

In that story, the narator and main character describes the post apocalyptic society that he's grown up in, and how people born with mutations (considered devils by the religious ruling class) are cast out to fend for themselves in the wild. Throughout the course of the story, it is revealed that a new kind of mutation is developing in children his age, one that can be hidden from sight. Basically, it's telepathy.

Most of the mutants in that story were basically Morlocks, physically deformed mutants with little to no advantage over a normal person. Stripped of as many power sets as you're talking about, I think the X-men could be much the same as that..

This is literally what I was trying to go for with this. Maybe I made it a little too vague as to what I was actually saying due to adding in the part about whose powers I think work biologically?

No.

Mutant powers are only biological. Attempting to understand the OP and their ideas (great opening post by the way) the question feels as if it should be rephrased to be the more complicated - How do you explain the various mutants powers and how they work biologically? Which is actually a lot of fun, and a few times me and a friend have tried to reverse engineer various mutants from the vantage of a biologist. Science and things to do with biology don't incorporate subjective individual notions of sense, as in common sense. Much of science and what we know as factual and actual are counter intuitive to what makes sense, so many mutant powers like say Eye Scream sound much more fantastical than say Angel's powers? Its really only relative in that example. In fact Iceman is one of the more extreme examples of characters powers requiring a lot of explanation as far as biology but even just as far as being compatible with reality and its generally considered fundamental laws. Marvel sidesteps a lot of these problems mind you by the introduction of psychic energy that exists in its Marvel reality. Its a real thing and pretty much allows for all sorts of strange phenomena as made potential by biological processes and links. As bizarre as that sounds it actually (besides needing its own explanations and sciences dedicated to it) makes certain more intuitively seeming credible biological mutations like Wolverines and Angel's more far fetched (granted you accepted psychic/psionic energy as a real thing)

I am a pretty big science geek, but I also enjoy the creativity and metaphor that exists within the X-Men. Storm works as well as Xavier and Jean but Storm inherent has a deeper affiliation with controlling and manipulating energy thats associated and fundamental to weather patterns and weather. Why weather exactly as far as why can't she just manipulate the same energies and insert science here as say Jean's telekinesis? Well thats the underlying question that usually requires a creative real life story answer than a in story scientific realistic answer of which comic writers would be hard pressed to answer accurately. Now Jean and Xavier are interesting power wise, because as long as humans have existed they have wondered about telepathy and telekinesis, because most humans have an inner voice apparent in there head and they know that other external objects including other humans can make sounds. So curiosity asks if its possible that people can access my headspace and whether I can listen to their internal voice the same way I can hear my own internal space the same way we communicate with our external voices? Which is basically telepathy. Telekinesis is similar but you know, instead of cutting down that tree to make a spear can I just make it fall down with some unseen force that is longer than my hand or cutting tool. Then again proto-gods and proto-pantheons usually had some sort of weather manipulator so its not really a coincidence that mutant powers draw upon human kinds collective psyche and that its ever evolving to represent/reflect people of different eras. Some ideas will sound more counter intuitive than others, and but most powers in comics are pretty fantastical - the cool trick of hand is making it sound more credible than it actually is. Like abstract art the best way to do that is to know the rules (of science) before you break them and I think most X-Men writers do an alright job in that respect.

Hey OP,

I found this interesting book one time that you may be interested in reading sometime if you can find it.

I think it was called "The Science of the Xmen." It had chapters dedicated to many of the popular mutants with scientific attempts to explain how each of their mutant powers, if real, could be realistic.

I believe storm was actually one who had her powers explained biologically. For example (I'm butchering this badly): it said something along the lines of storms body possessing magnetic properties with specific atoms/molecules (like h2o) and her control over this molecule's attraction to her body could allow her to rearrange those h2o molecules into rain. This is just one example.

Another example involved telepathic mutants. See, neuroscience has actually discovered these things called mirror neurons. Some people have more than others.

Mirror neurons allow us to be able to empathize with other humans. This is why some people are sensitive to others' thoughts/ feelings while some aren't as good.

Anyway, knowing this bit of science, it's not unfathomable that one could have a mutated level of mirror neurons so high that they can actually replicate and mirror exactly what another person is thinking or feeling.

Anyway, the book is pretty thorough- I'm not talking about the mutants getting like one page each. Some had entire chapters.

Anyway, as long as one realizes it is still a work of fiction in itself, I found it to be a very fun read and a way for the xmen's powers to seem more "legitimate" and interesting.

And given that we know from science that cellular and genetic mutations are real, it's kinda scary how some if the xmens mutations could ACTUALLY exist now or in the future.

Scary stuff in a cool and imaginative way :)

I admit, I was a little confused about what you meant. But once I remembered that book, it made a little more sense.

Have you read it?

Considering 99.8% of mutants aren't.... no.

It seems that you don't think that energy based powers are as understandable as physical ones. I don't agree since many of the energy-based powers you discuss are explained quite well in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe with pretty plausible explanations for every power :P. And "The Science of the X-Men" offers pretty good descriptions, as well (find it at Amazon Link).

to be fair, just because something's understandable doesn't make it any more plausible. Virtually all superheroes require a suspension of disbelief; no matter how thorough the explanation, there's really just no evidence that someone could actually turn themselves into ice or steel and still be able to move, and even less that they could turn back.

I do think Marvel's done a good job of trying to explain how each character's powers are supposed to work, good enough that you can just take them for granted at least; but even when the characters are used in what is essentially science fiction stories, their powers, no matter how well explained, are really more in the realm of mythology, products of fantasy.

Well put. I agree. Some titles require a huge suspension of disbelief, Plastic Man for example. Other comics require a little less, like Spiderman, and some titles, like Batman, require even less. It's all based on how the title tries to explain itself, which pretty much sets the world it takes place in. In Peter Parker's world I can believe that a radioactive spider bite can alter DNA and create super powers. In Bruce Wayne's world that becomes a little harder to believe. (In gotham it'd probably just turn you evil.)

The thing with mutants is that some of their powers have been very well explained while others were just born that way. Some characters require a bigger suspension of disbelief than others, thus, at times, creating a world that can seem unsure of itself.

To be honest though I always thought the X titles handled this really well. When there is a new mutant and power introduced it always seems to be treated like a new scientific discovery. Even old mutants are still discovering and learning about their mutations. If they explained every mutation and super power in detail you would lose that feeling of mystery and exploration.

@oldnightcrawler: No I haven't read it. BTW would you mind me using what you wrote as part of the OP so that people will understand what I mean better?

not at all.

You should give the Crysalids a shot, though, it's pretty interesting.

@oldnightcrawler: Thanks for mentioning the book. I actually purchased it several months ago and never got around to reading it. Damn comics. :)

Then storm would be super powerful. Can we say OMEGA class and super fertilizer?