who hates koays? koays is AWESOME

@hopesummersforthefuture: lol I know right!!!! Thank you

(whistles innocently)

@koays: ;)

The X-Men are really boring and lame as villains.

@ms-lola: lol I hope that whistle wasn't implying dislike for the awesomeness that is Koays!

@koays: Oh no, never! Koays is like, THE X-Men guru of gurus (alongside oldnightcrawler, of course). I simply bow to your awesomeness, because I am sooooo unworthy... (:P)

I was told, however, that by not partaking in the Battle Forums, one can't be considered an expert on any character. So, you know, you totally suck and stuff.

@teerack: I think the big problem was just the lack of fleshing out. I mean from the get go we had questions and gaps in logic like:

How did the gathered X-Men members react to apocalypse. were they inverted too?

Why did the X-Men, even if inverted, so easily agree to Genocide when the Avengers couldn't get on the same page long enough to hunt down red skull.

Why aren't the X-Men looking harder for Red Skull?

Where are the half a dozen psychics? Are they inverted?

Its like someone through a dart on the board that said Evil X-Men attempt genocide, and nobody wrote anything after that.

I'm glad it didn't get fleshed out because none of those things sound interesting and i wouldn't want to have to read through it.

@ms-lola: lmao, I'm going to just say thanks for then top half of your comment and look a way to hide my man tears (and it was going so well until the end there).

...well then. I guess i'll go start a bunch of battles pitting the X-Men against the Jackson 5, since arguing only the most over the top feats and ignoring characterization, continuity, and every other facet of characters aside from the one time they punched the moon...is the ONLY true way to prove yourself on the battle forum and become a comicvine expert! Wish me luck! (Grabs hobo traveling stick)

@koays: Hahahahahah, oh my God, it is way too late to be laughing this hard! And nooooooooooooooooooooo, don't go there!!!!!

@teerack: idk it just bothers me that the event started on Genosha, was set off by Xavier's brain being stolen, was hyped for the return of a variation of Onslaught and had the initial evil be imprisoning mutants.....and yet the contribution of the X-Men is building a bomb and floating over Manhattan.

Its like the X-Men are locked out of their own stories...

@ms-lola: No! I'm sorry ms-lola, but you've awoken me to the truth. Who cares if i can name three of the best issues that fully characterize Jean Grey and site her role as an essential member of the X-Men without the Phoenix Force? What really matters is whether or not she can beat Supergirl, morals off at a starting distance of 30 feet without speed blitz! That is the true test medal on this site!

And here i've been wasting my time being informative and sharing opinions on story structure, character development and writing style....The guy who pit the X-Men up against the Twilight Vampires(true story), that's the one whose making a difference!

@koays:

(sob)

What have I done?!

(runs away, ugly crying)

@ms-lola: You do that!

Now i've got to figure out how Colossus can overcome both Tito and Jermaine after they take out Storm. I mean Piotor's got organic steel....but they were trained by Joe Jackson. And they're dance skills...i mean no Russian can compete with that..

@koays: I'm with you on that synopsis of the xmen's involvement in this event. From the jump I've said that the whole idea of Red Skull having Xavier's brain and thus his powers was ridiculous. In fact those issues of Uncanny Avengers that focused on that as the storyline were the weakest of the series. I think they are going to the same well a bit too often with Scarlet Witch and her magical spells (but I guess this is Disney right) and then heroes being villains and fighting each other. The heavy reliance on these two overdone themes has really handicapped this story beyond belief and made it descend into the seeming agenda pushing that Marvel has been accused of in reference to mutants

@hawk2916: Yea i agree. To me, having the heroes fight each other would've been the last thing that should've been on their agenda list. If anything they should've just had all the actual villains (without being inverted) band together to stop the inverted heroes from destroying the world. What we got was a very detached mess where the X-Men who's elements made up 70% of the story were just there as an obstacle for not only the Villains but also the Villainous Avengers. And even if you accept the (insulting) idea that despite the layout this is still an Avengers story, the Avengers weren't characterized beyond being a-holes. This event really didn't do anything on it's own that was special or unique because it didn't commit to it's plan of switching the roles so really it just looks like a watered down version of all the other times the Heroes have fought and Scarlet Witch has magic'd the problem away. All an All they made this out to be some mega event, but even from a story structure point of view it was weaker then AvX and really just seems like it was put together a weak before it started...even though solicits were out 4 to 5 months prior...

Whats interesting about the "Xavier's brain" plot is that it's basically a story that could've been about the U-Men from Morrison's run, and just been an X-Men story. Or heck, just make it an event about dead superheores having their body parts stolen and make Xavier the catalyst for the X-Men's involvement. I just don't like the way that Charles Xavier despite all he's done and how important he supposedly is to the world of mutants.... doesn't warrant an immediate call in of the X-Men from every corner when his freaking brain is stolen.

@koays: Exactly. And that's really my point about Xavier and by extension the Xmen's treatment going back even to AVX but really before that. Its like at every juncture they've found a way to discredit and decrease Xavier's influence on not only the Xmen but the marvel universe, stripping his character down to a seedy and shady guy whose contributions are meaningless. The Xmen have gone from their original premise and purpose to uncovering and cleaning up the f*@%king secret life of Xavier, while fighting each other and the superhero community constantly.

I mean really in all seriousness Axis could have been much better had they just found a way to clone Xavier and gone from there. Or just bust into SHIELD psi-division or the JGS and hook Empath up to Cerebro and have him affect everybody's feelings and go. As for Genosha, I would have rather had Weapon X by some secret government mandate recreating or reestablishing the Neverland camp. Or something with some history not just random crap like let's make Red Skull torment mutants so the Avengers and Xmen will be together but still f@#k everything up. It does feel like they are making it up as they go here

@koays:

After seeing how inferior (by stats) Luke Cage (and other Alist Avengers over defeated now officially renamed into X-pendables) holds unconscious Colossus in recent Axis preview, I say screw character development.

Sh!t, Remender has outmatched even Bendis in crap writing.

@hawk2916: I'll say this for the Xavier shaming, while the idea that this guy who has such a high moral standing and is so praised for his ideals, might just be as single minded and unrelenting as his greatest idealistic rival is a great story element....it's been done to the point of ruination. I liked the Vulcan situation, i'm ok with Danger's situation, but that should've been it. With all of the events in actual stories you could drag up and make as points against Xavier, why do you need to push the envelope and add something that only makes him appear more evil then some of the badguys they fight. Part of what makes Xavier's dream more acceptable is that it's easier to listen since his ideals because he isn't standing on a pile of his enemies bodies when he preaches them.....now it makes you question why anyone should chose him over any of the other maniacs.

I feel like the X-Men have not only lost direction in the past few years, but also a lot of the heart of the team. It seems like for a franchise that has some the most interesting and compelling story elements the only one anyone wants to write about is the one where they're torn apart by the very philosophy that brought them together. It's not only troubling....but it's actually getting kind of boring.

@adamtrmm- I used to think that Rememder was a bit more balanced in his portrayals or at least fair. He never really struck me as being bad or good with writing, but if i had to name someone who would write a crossover that craps all over the X-Men and gives them almost zero chance to shine or even appear to have minor character depth...it wasn't going to be him.

Seriously why were the X-Men even co-headlining this? There biggest contribution was a brain.

@koays: Like you said, the story has been done to the point of overkill. Like you I actually liked the Vulcan story. With Danger not so Mich because I felt it would have been better if that had been attributed to Beast but OK fine. The Cassandra Nova thing was a bit ridiculous in my mind and needlessly convoluted. I mean I'm not sure there are many people who can give a good and true explanation as to what a Mummadrai is. There was a much simpler direction that could have been taken there. But anyway all that said the constant reliance on and invention of these types of stories make Xavier as much a villain and manipulater as say Sinister or the old Hellfire Club. And like you said is just boring as is the hero vs hero stuff we get currently

The Brood lady they had in X-Men 22 was a pretty good idea. Adding a Kerrigan rip off is a good way of making the Brood a lot more interesting.

Pretty excited about the next issue having a good writer since Marvel almost never puts any of it's good writers on X-Books anymore.

Mystique as a good guy is really great and I hope she stays like this.

I really loved the first issue of Spider-Man and the X-Men and the fact it referenced the short lived Toad and Frogman team was awesome.

The Uncanny X-Men annual was so good! I was expecting the obvious choices like X-Men 2099 when they said Eva would be meeting significant characters throughout time, but the Rawhide Kid and Killraven cameos were surprising and really cool.

Not really. First of all, he imposes too much of his personal beliefs (not with irony or metaphors, but with self-righteous moral high ground) into a story he's telling and I don't really respect that. It's almost allover his stories, from UXF (remeber when X-Force was successful, proactive and productive as well? Thank Remender it isn't anymore) and Avengers tie-ins to AvX, to this very event and previously UA. I mean, "Havok's" speech?! We all know it wasn't really Alex, it was Remender speaking, and we, as X-fans, have heard him. The vine wasn't really boiling with this, but I know the sentiment wasn't equally grounded on other X-formus as it was here. You would say he learned the lesson, but then we witness him creating a messed up plot that makes Magneto, JUSTIFIABLY (and I will stand by my words if anyone wills to question me) killing Nazi scum that just told Erik he will mind-wipe his daughter, use her to eliminate mutants again and all of this happy happening taking place within the newly relaunched concentration camp, eventually blamed Magneto and his "unreasonable" bloodlust because the result was the Red Onslaught?! I mean how much more self imposed stupidity we must witness from him?

I kinda loved that he explored the Apocalypse mythos, but recently I've seen how much he really respects it and X-mythos in general, so no, I don't want him anywhere near the X-characrers or the X-books. I've seen enough.

EDIT:

I just realized, the final chapter of Axis is out now! But I can't say my jimmies are ready...

@koays: how was uncanny x-men. it was sold out at my comicbook store?

my compliments

so cute read it on tumblr

my complaints:

is cypher 16 or something because that would be wrong on so many levels?!?!?!?!!?!

weird cases:

ill probably get yelled at alot but i always thought emma was gay. we all know in her hellfire days she probably experimented, not that thats a problem.. ......

@adamtrmm: I get what your saying. I mean Havok's speech was a bit on the agenda side, but as a way to justify the existence of the Unity Avengers team in a world with 2 X-Men factions with different philosophies on how to get there it kinda had to be said. And they did at least address how it polarizing it was in a couple of books so i give him a little leeway.

It's the Magneto point though that you can sort of see him prioritize things in an unfavorable way for X-Characters. I mean I get that a man just bashed someones skull in and of course the heroes have to object as a rule of life, but for Magneto himself to take blame and mope about it kind of takes it from a issue of "What lines do we cross to be safe?" and makes it a non issue. According to the story Magneto was wrong, the heroes know it, he knows it, and the writer doesn't need to give you any of the nuance and debate that should be expected in a Magneto issue....he was wrong period because the story said he was.

Also.....the ending of Axis, so uninspired it does exactly what we all new it would. I'm not gonna say there was a clear bias against the X-Men, because apparently some of the X-Men writers just didn't want anything from this event....but god if it doesn't feel like nobody cared that the X-Men were Co-headliners in this then...idk.

@hopesummersforthefuture- Doug is supposedly around Kitty's age. And even if you count his death as "not aging" it's been at least 2 years since he was brought back so...18ish?

Either way the law hasn't caught up to where it can count Danger as anything more then a blow up doll.

@koays: i thought someone was going to die at axis, i guess they change the story mid-way and happy holidays!!!!!!!

xoxoxo

I don't think they even had a plan that they could change to begin with. Its like monkeys were plotting the last 4 issues...

But anyways..

Happy Holidays to you too ;-)

@koays: do u know when the next all-new x-men comes out???????

@hopesummersforthefuture: All New X-Men 35 comes out in January 21 and All New X-Men 37 in February 18.

P.S. Is it right write, «It comes out in January 21»?

January 21??? thats to long to wait. if only it didnt get delayed.

P.S yeah i think thats right

what about uncanny x-men??????

@hopesummersforthefuture: Oh my God, you would be able to suffer from a withdrawal symptoms by comics, also if the x-titles come out every day! :_D

Anyway Uncanny X-Men 30 comes out in January 28.

ill well, its good i dont have to worry about it......plus now i can relax and celebrate new years. :)

i was looking at preview trying to find it.

@hopesummersforthefuture: Uncanny X-Men 30 is supposed to come out on the 7th and issue 32 comes out on the 28th. We are supposed to get two issues of uncanny in January. Unless that has changed.

ok ty didnt get ur notification

The Morgan Le Fay stuff was cool. I really love how Bendis is having Eva interact with all the time period characters he has used in his Avengers runs. I forgot just how long Bendis has been writing comics some times.

@hopesummersforthefuture: Cypher is in his 20s.

Havok's speech was a pure misstep that could've been grandiosity. Yeah, it's that radical. The "we're all just humans" angle was something that I'm not really sure why wasn't explored yet, that feels so natural I want to applaud just for the mere intention of establishing it, but as it is already consistency with Remender, he must've failed... The M-word?! So now each ethnic/religious/cultural/national/etc group has to be politcorrected in the name of integrity? Is this even integrity? What the hell was he thinking? Obviously guy's 100% ignorant in this kind of issues that do oblige for certain knowledge, who the hell let him handle the dam Unity Squad?

I really don't know what should I say about Axis.. I should say something negative, but I'm too tired to be constantly disappointed haha.

Idk, i mean as you pointed the "We are all just humans" angle was very interesting. And to me it's the core of the message that i think he was trying to put out there. In reality there are many people who don't like to identify themselves by there race or ethnicity and dislike that by saying their African, Middle Eastern, or a certain shade White they open themselves up to the stigmatisms and preconceptions that come with their race that may not apply to them. To some people it's a easier to just say "lets do a way with those labels".

And of course a great counter point was raised by (And I'm crediting Bendis so this may lose some weight to my point) Kitty in her reaction to the speech. Which basically was the "pryde" people take in their heritage despite the baggage it can carry with it in some instances.

Labeling mutants the M-word leaves me a bit in the middle because while i get the point he was trying to say about labels separating us, i also feel like if he just decided to put a taboo on the word "Black", "White" or "Asian" as a way in which people describe themselves then there'd be more then a little outrage and doing it how he did is a bit of a round about way.

@koays: lol I feel bad for Bendis, and that speech by Kitty. It is nothing compared to her speech at the end of New Mutants #45 written by Claremont.

@dman1366: Scans? I'm no where near anything that I can check that. I though the Kitty speech was pretty cool....definetly good that a person we've seen grow up an X-Man is that proud to be a mutant and not just doing a job.

@koays: She's talking about a mutant who committed suicide, because he was victim of the bullies of his school.

@ec2277 said:

@koays: She's talking about a mutant who committed suicide, because he was victim of the bullies of his school.

So character development, bad continuity or not comparable?

@koays: Different circumstances imply different reactions and the circumstances which caused the suicide of the boy in that story, are so different by the circumstances lived by Kitty and the other mutants in the current stories, that they aren't comparable; obviously for me.

That boy was a lonely boy persecuted by the bullies of his school and he tried to be funny with Kitty, repeating the racist joke (racist against the mutants) of the bully. Kitty throw him out and only after his suicide, she discovered the truth: he was a mutant without friends, who tried to seem a normal guy; if I remember well that issue.

Instead the speech written by Bendis, is a speech said by an angry Kitty and in my opinion she is angry because she feels the Havoc speech, like something against her ideals, her dreams. That speech was something able to hit her in her pride to being a mutant, an x-woman.

It is very political speech, but just this be political, provokes the indignant reaction among the people, who have fight more harshly for the Xavier dream and for the survival of their race.

@koays: I think that it is counter intuitive, she learned in this issue that labels do nothing, but separate people and cause unnecessary violence. Now, she is saying that there should be labels and everyone should be judged based on them? I don't know if that is Bendis' own racism and antisemitism coming out, but I would be totally offended if I had to tell everyone I knew that I am Jewish

@dman1366: I don't really have the time to go into this the way I want but to me I don't think it was antisemitic. I mean really what Kitty says is more like how if someone says a comment about how they don't like really religious people. If your an extremely religious person you might be offended and even more they might not have said it at all if they had that prior knowledge. But it doesn't change the fact that they have a problem with really religious people. Kitty's saying she could avoid the astigmatisms of her background but she chooses to wear it on her sleeve.

@koays: I see what you're saying. I just still feel like those two scenes are counter intuitive

I can agree with you here. I mean there's also the fact that Kitty is nearly 10 years older then she was there an opinions could change. But I think that as much as the X-Men seem to want to be seen as equals in human society they have a sort of pride whenever the mutant community accomplishes something or bounces back from a tragedy.

I think it's a great question for the X-Men to ask "Does achieving Xavier's dream of Peaceful Coexistence mean stopping the growth of a separate mutant subculture?"

I mean someone like Cyclops may say that mutants should be allowed to come to the table of the world as mutants with their own mutant things from their own mutant towns(Utopia?) and stand up as a unified culture and be represented as their own people by their own people.

Storm might say that in order for them to join the world community they need to show that they are just like the regular humans next to them except with powers. That the goal isn't to have a table in the United Nations marked "Nation of Mutants" but to be accepted as equal parts of their own nations instead of a separate problem, to be integrated rather then independent.

And some like Havok(pre-inversion) and even a younger Kitty seem like they would rather being Mutant not be a thing at all. To not have an area called "Mutant Town" but for it to just be called downtown. They'd prefer having an X-gene to be like having dimples, some people have it some people don't.

It's cool the way they all have the exact same mission statement but if you ask them they'd have to say their endgame for Xavier's Dream isn't the same.

1) Again you have arrived to the same my conclusions. There only a little thing on which I could disagree: in the New Mutant story Kitty involuntarily played a big role, in the decision of the boy to commit suicide. Then in my opinion she felt a strong sense of guilt that shone through her speech.

In fact Kitty was always been very proud to be a jewish and an X-Men. We can see that through her reaction to the Xavier's decision of move her from the X-Men to the New Mutants and through her wear a necklace with the David star.

Gallery

2) I'm happy of that: finally the Marvel is developing the various factions of the mutantkind, leaving the classical scheme of heroes and villains with a generic purpose of a pacific coexistence or with the purpose of the mutant dominion. Now (finally) they isn't developing only the different goals, but also the different ways to reach these goals.

@koays:

Idk, i mean as you pointed the "We are all just humans" angle was very interesting. And to me it's the core of the message that i think he was trying to put out there. In reality there are many people who don't like to identify themselves by there race or ethnicity and dislike that by saying their African, Middle Eastern, or a certain shade White they open themselves up to the stigmatisms and preconceptions that come with their race that may not apply to them. To some people it's a easier to just say "lets do a way with those labels".

And this is very cool, because as you already said there are these people and this massage becomes even more relevant and what not! BUT, do you really think they consider their own background/origins derogatory to the point where it needs to be censored "N-work" style? This was beyond stupid.

And of course a great counter point was raised by (And I'm crediting Bendis so this may lose some weight to my point) Kitty in her reaction to the speech. Which basically was the "pryde" people take in their heritage despite the baggage it can carry with it in some instances.

This was actually pretty enjoyable that books co-exist and acknowledge each other, I don't think it was seen since then though ;)

Labeling mutants the M-word leaves me a bit in the middle because while i get the point he was trying to say about labels separating us, i also feel like if he just decided to put a taboo on the word "Black", "White" or "Asian" as a way in which people describe themselves then there'd be more then a little outrage and doing it how he did is a bit of a round about way.

Putting a taboo on a label is ok, doing so on your partial identity is irresponsible. A-word instead of American then? Another label, why not?

@dman1366:

Bendis is Jewish isn't he? Would make sense with the way he handles Kitty's Jewish "pryde" as a heavily visual part of her current identity.

I think Claremont is as well.