Soooo, this was a pretty massive week for an X-reader guys, and I must say, this thread will be unusual for me because I kinda enjoyed everything, in general. Well, mostly, of course there are always details for me to cavil :) Let's begin!

X-Men#13: First of all, I want to accentuate Mann's art, it is absolutely beautiful and unlike his previous, the way I felt, rushy work on this book with the X-teens and Jubilee, this time his drawings were at their best.

The story begins with a monolog of Shogo's father that is supposed to be some major, professional badass, and he wants his son back. Then we have a panel of Monet and Rockslide training, she appears to still recover from the events of the previous X-factor's final story, which I'd say is understandable. Yet, since the moment M joined the book I felt like this wasn't really her voice and nature, I find it hard to explain what exactly bothered me before, but after this issue I'll say it is her past experience consequences from which she'll yet have to recuperate. Right after that Storm and Psylocke converse, it is obvious that they created sort of a mutual bond none of other girls have. It looks like Storm has some confidence (NOT self-confidence) problems in terms of further developments, because of how inappropriate the results of their operation were. Feels like a stretch though, besides Rachel everybody followed her, the mission (on panel) was successful and everyone have returned home, so I don't understand why are they so morally exhausted. Then comes my favorite panel where it is finally revealed that Rachel is aware of Sublime's direct implication to Jean's death. Yet, she is heartbroken? It can't be so simple, I feel like there's a double-part game from the both sides that I'd like to see a conclusion of, and I don't like it to be postponed now.

I want to say that I enjoyed X-teens' appearances, but then I'd lie. Not to be a party-pooper, but I feel like they are a lot more than cameos and directionless plot fillers, and this rumor of one of them to die next issue makes me kinda nervous lol

Unlike the whole previous arc, I enjoyed this issue for most, and I hope from now on, Wood I started to like during his Vol.3 run is back!

X-Force#3: Am the only one who has that feeling that more questions are discovered each issue than are getting explained? I kinda like this feeling, but a damn month is too much to know most likely your questions won't be replied lol

As for the plot, now we know that Psylocke has a major addiction to killing, which creates some continuity problems, because if we're recalling Remender's Betsy, she was kinda overwhelmed with it and disgusted in the same time, the results of UXF missions were always about to backlash and she stated she had enough. For some reason, I'm sure the lineup was an editorial push and not Spurrier's own, he just had to make them happen and logically integrate into this team's functions, so I'm not judging him. But I hope the idea that she is about to sin that others won't have to, killing instead of them, will stop right with this issue, because it's not leading us anywhere. So, if I close my eyes on this little crisis, I do enjoy the story, yet I hope more action and revelations will start to come to light as soon as it possible.

How has that girl from Legacy become a prisoner btw? Wasn't she a JGC pupil?

WATXM#3: I hate the feel Aaron established for the school and Latour continuing his legacy there, these bamfs, doops, kids with antlers and other stupid mutations. That said, I'm kinda interested in what the Askani-brother story is about, or what the hell is Phoenix corp.

Attention! A story about Askani and no Rachel?! A plot hole or intended future to be denouement?

Amazing X-Men#6: Aren't most of us excited about Aaron's departure from the X-books?! Just a little more to suffer >:) Was kinda funny to see Havok and Cyclops on the same panel without an interaction or "You're under arrest!" statement, I don't know, the whole situation was kinda ridiculous while Kurt himself was too aloof. I don't really have much to say, just one thing - I know that many hate or just indifferent to Azazel, but I think he is potentially great villain. Blame First Class, the red devil look alike teleporting assassin with blades, adding to this black magic, immortality and actual demonic connections turns him into potential A-lister the way I see it. Of course, not under Aaron and his flawed perceptions of assault on Heaven by pirate freakazoids with Azazel as their leader, but I hope K/Y will make it right after him. That's all I have to say here.

Uncanny X-Men#20: I want to shout "Finally, some action!", but actually it was a prelude to it lol I did kinda like this issue, still too many questionable moments: how can psychics assault a super-intelligence, when even Spider Woman has defenses against it, is beyond me. Again, no word about Magneto by neither of them all. Nice to see some plot progress into future revelations and I can actually say "finally", but yet again - until the next issue. It's not the "Revolution" I'd like to read about, but it is kinda getting better, who knows maybe it'll grow on me in the end.

@adamtrmm: cavil's a good word, thanks for that

X-Men #13 - totally agree about Clay Mann's art; after the last few back-up stories, I was not really looking forward to him being in the driver's seat, but he totally brought it this issue.

Something else I really appreciated was seeing Storm fully acknowledge Rachel's criticism of her leadership, as well as Psylocke's support of it. While Psylocke's lines about the Storm that gave Cyclops the finger vs. the Storm that acted as headmaster might have been a little too meta and/or on the nose, it's still cool to see the characters acknowledge what the fans have been noticing for months in a way that still feels organic in-universe. The sub-plot with Shogo's dad was something I felt dumb for not anticipating, but seems like a great way to bring Jubilee back to the center of what was supposed to be her book, as well as a great excuse for a mysterious new villain.

And, while the New X-men are still being used primarily as supporting cast, it's still good to see them incorporated without taking away from the main cast, all of whom had solid, story moving moments this issue. Between Wood's recent issues and Latour's, they're starting to take on the role that the old gold team had as the main support team, which is itself encouraging.

Amazing X-Men #6- while I'm not feeling like I'll miss Aaron on this book, I did enjoy this issue overall. The pacing was thin, as usual, but the significant character beats were there and they were solid. Honestly, if anyone missed the Quest for Nightcrawler, they could easily pick up this book up here without missing anything of significance.

Though the issue felt light, little moments like Mystique being the only character to acknowledge Nightcrawler's change, or Nightcrawler standing between Cyclops and Havok (so they could ignore each other for his sake), still made the characterization in this issue feel solid.

Wolverine & the X-Men (vol.2) #3 - I still have no complaints with this book whatsoever. While Latour nails the characterization of both Storm and especially Quire (maybe the most entertaining version of Quire to date), his character beats for Evan, Oya, Armor, and even the New X-men (even if it is only as the icing on the cake) give me lots to be interested in.

I'm love, love, loving Asrar's surface style and story pacing on this book, and between him and Latour I'm hoping this team gets a chance to stick around for at least a while.

Uncanny X-Men #20- okay, actually, Magneto was brought up in a fairly significant way this issue, but even if he hadn't been, this was still a solid issue. The cat and mouse between Cyclops and Hill has been one of the most interesting aspects of this book, for me, so to see them finally confront each other was pretty satisfying in itself.

And even Bachalo's artwork (usually my main criticism of this book) was better than usual, so I really had no complaints with this issue at all.

I sort of went into this week expecting to find a weak link in (what I consider) the four main X-men books, thinking maybe I'd drop one; but between Uncanny' and WatX-2 remaining solid, Wood stepping up his game, and the fact that Aaron's leaving, I still feel pretty on-board with all of these books right now. Honestly, even with Aaron's somewhat light issue, this was probably one of the most satisfying weeks to be an X-men fan in quite some time.

Was waiting for this.
The theme of this week should've been "Community"

X-Men - 13
I'll admit I'm biased because my favorite "X-teen" (SURGE) was in this. But legitimately this issue felt very much like the perfect inbetween, dealing with the fall out of the last arc and using it as a launching point for the next set of character developments. Hellion looking to form his own team, and Jubilee acknowledging her floater status within the X-Men got me excited to see this play out. Plus the use of the students as a whole, from little appearances in short scenes to acting as the plot motivation, has been the biggest selling point on this book because it adds dimensions to the entire school (staff and student alike) and makes me more interested in how these stories will play out.

And between Psylocke's out of nowhere mention of the proto-mutant situation, and this week and last weeks All New, it makes me almost feel like people were reading the forum in the X-Men offices...which i wouldn't mind.


X-Force - 3
Again, the first few pages really connects the X-Force team to the other X-Books. I really don't have much to say about this other then the fact that, i had grown bored with Psylocke's continued portrayal as "the woman who keeps being let down by life". This new development is an interesting one for her character that will give me something to think about even when she appears in other books.

Wolverine and the X-Men - 3
Another great use of a large cast. I don't know whether i'm more interested in Quire's connection to the Phoenix corp, Genesis becoming Apocalypse or finding out what this Askani guy's backstory is. If i had one complaint it would be that Armor and the students argument could've gotten more time....but thats stretching because im very interest in where this is going and who else will be involved.



Amazing X-Men - 6
With Aaron you never really feel like the story goes deep enough. I mean from reading the big bar entry panel and Nightcrawlers reaction to Cyke, i felt like this could be a big moment before it was just shrugged off. I mean honestly i would've had Cyclops and friends enter at the end of the issue and greet Nightcrawler away from the others because it feels like it cheapened the reactions. I would've probably been able to get more into this if we had gotten to see a army of half drunk X-Men trying to detain Mystique and Azazel....but Aaron decided for once not to go for the whacky. Still, the feeling of the group scenes and Mystique and Nightcrawlers interactions definitely made me smile as a fan.

Uncanny X-Men -20
This issue was GOLD. It caught my attention from the start and the ending made me get that feeling readers get when things get really good and they run out of pages to read. I think Uncanny moved all of its plots along perfectly and really felt like progress had been made. This is proof that when Bendis is on his game he can make this the best X-book of the 2010's. That said, its a shame that this may just be the peak of the hill when you remember that we've got crossovers with All New and the big X-Event coming up soon and history has proven events are this titles worst enemy.


Despite being mildly interested in the events, i'd much prefer the books continue on until fall uninterrupted because it feels like there all picking up momentum and establishing a path for their stories.
The bridges between the books were great this week and it really made the School feel like the center of the X-Men world, which it should be. I'm hoping they keep this level of quality going on an upswing because I'm very interested in where all the books go from here.

@koays:

"This is proof that when Bendis is on his game he can make this the best X-book of the 2010's. That said, its a shame that this may just be the peak of the hill when you remember that we've got crossovers with All New and the big X-Event coming up soon and history has proven events are this titles worst enemy.

Despite being mildly interested in the events, i'd much prefer the books continue on until fall uninterrupted because it feels like there all picking up momentum and establishing a path for their stories.

The bridges between the books were great this week and it really made the School feel like the center of the X-Men world, which it should be. I'm hoping they keep this level of quality going on an upswing because I'm very interested in where all the books go from here."

Absolutely. Individually, I'm interested in all of these books right now, but the idea of any of them being interrupted by a crossover makes me that much less so.

As much as I'm digging Bendis' work on Uncanny', his crossover issues with All-new have been this book's weakest moments and I feel fairly resolute that if/when they crossover again I'll just be skipping those issues.

X-men #13: Mann is the best artist in my opinion. Wood's strength continues to be his characterization for the most part. I guess this is not easily achieved because of so many books and difficulties with continuity (will get to this later with Xforce). I hope Wood hits his stride for sure with this arc and we are more satisfied than the ending of the last offering. This issue has me intrigued to see what more developments we see. I enjoyed Jubilee's ideals on her status and I certainly appreciate the inclusion on the New Xmen. I happen to love that class and I hope they continue to be featured even more. Hell maybe Wood gets a second book based on them. Im also worried about who might die though and really hope its one of the kids I dislike or dont care about but just my luck it will be Hellion or Surge. My only criticism is the albeit personal aggravation of mine, to the constant alluding to a Rachel Grey- John Sublime relationship. it's just very out of character and so unnecessary. In fact I would say that Rachel and Monet (who I absolutely love) are the only ones that Wood is missing on, and I agree with the original poster about the reasoning behind Monet's shift. Overall Wood writes decent entertaining issues and it's never even crossed my mind to consider dropping him.

X-Force # 3: I dont really know what to say about this book. Now Psylocke is addicted to killing like what... American Psycho? Then in Wood's Xmen she's portrayed different and now teaching or training students? Continuity issues or somebody's characterization is off big time. I find myself really questioning whether there's a need for the kill-squad anymore and some of this just feels forced. I like Spurrier as a writer but really Im questioning why Im still reading this book since I hate Fantomex (who thankfully hasnt been focused on much) and dont care about Marrow. I was intrigued by Cable and Psylocke on the team together but..... I will continue to give this a chance though because I dont think its a fair assessment to drop it before we get out of the 1st 2 arcs. I do think this book would benefit from a bump in the release schedule. Maybe every two weeks for the next 2-3 issues might help it because as someone mentioned at this point each issue produces far more questions than answers. Overall I think this issue is about the same as others and in a wait-n-see holding pattern. By the way the comic relief here was pretty decent.

WATXM#3: "I hate the feel Aaron established for the school and Latour continuing his legacy there, these bamfs, doops, kids with antlers and other stupid mutations." I agree with this statement 100%. I dont see why Latour would want to keep following Aaron's template. I would add though that Im not the least bit intrigued by anything with the Phoenix. The Phoenix and Time-travel have become the biggest crutches in the MU. Enough is enoug. I really struggle to find the fascination with Quire as well as Evan. Im trying to give a newer guy a chance but really this is reminding me of why I dropped WATXM in the 1st place. I thought changing writers might allow for me to come back into the fold but Im really regretting giving this a try and dont know how long I will hang on with this book.

Amazing Xmen #6: I didnt buy this because... you know. By the way I cant wait, I think this was his last issue!! I did browse this in the store though and i have to say Im glad I didnt waste my money on Aaron yet again. Im glad Nightcrawler is back but the way it seems that he came back is just well.... stupid. However I guess I can credit that it wasnt just boring and overdone time travel. Can't believe the Bamfs are still around since they were supposed to be the reason why both Nightcrawler and Azazel are back. Wo cares i guess. I'm just glad Nightcrawler is back and I cant wait for him to get back into the swing of things as I was kind of pissed when he died in the 1st place. Im looking forward to the next issues with Deconnick writing and then K&Y. I really hope they just get right into their own story and really dont even acknowledge any of the previous work besides including Kurt.

Uncanny X-Men#20: If Bendis would write like this all the time I'd really take back all that ive said about him and shout from the roof-tops that this is the best Xmen book. This issue along with the Magneto one has been the best of his run. Sad that its only 2 in a run of 20 but hopefully Bendis keeps it up. It did feel like a prelude to something actually happening so fingers crossed. My criticism are the treatment of Emma of course. She only gets one or two lines and is really non-existent. Maria Hill and SHIELD are really being portrayed as completely stupid. And of course Magneto is gone and its not really being acknowledged. I guess whats satisfying about this issue is it feels like what should have happened ages ago is finally starting to happen. My only question is why did we have to wait so long? Overall I think this was one of the better issues in the series and for once Im actually excited about the next issue. By the way I really hope the Mystique-MGH thing has far-ranging implications as for as those who have lost powers whether former Xmen or not.

Wolverine #4: Another read at the comic store and i could barely get through it. Honestly kept nodding off. This issue felt like a filler for sure. In fact this story should have been told 1st and then a week later they should have jumped into the issue that was number 1. Im really not surprised or even saddened by the rumors that Marvel plans to kill Logan this year as it really feels as if they are running out of ideas and the stories involving him are losing steam and evolving into one big irritating joke. Further reason in mind at least to stop with all the ongoing solos. Even the Marvel heavy-hitter Wolverine is mediocre at best. This issue kind of continues along those same lines. Though he's one of my favorite characters, the last few years, he hasn't been done justice and really I just think it would better to shelve him for a while. That said the killing and resurrecting is tiresome, so as I've suggested before put him in a coma and leave him. Actually I thought he would fit better with Cable's team in Xforce, certainly more so than Fantomex (does anybody even like this guy?) The issue plays the back and forth angle I guess telling of how he came to be in the situation he's in. In my opinion the momentum is clearly lost here as I had to retrace what the hell was going on with him previously. My take is dont waste your money, just take 5 minutes at the shop and browse it and you'll be just fine.

@hawk2916:

"WATXM#3: "I hate the feel Aaron established for the school and Latour continuing his legacy there, these bamfs, doops, kids with antlers and other stupid mutations."

"I agree with this statement 100%. I dont see why Latour would want to keep following Aaron's template. I would add though that Im not the least bit intrigued by anything with the Phoenix. The Phoenix and Time-travel have become the biggest crutches in the MU. Enough is enoug. I really struggle to find the fascination with Quire as well as Evan. Im trying to give a newer guy a chance but really this is reminding me of why I dropped WATXM in the 1st place. I thought changing writers might allow for me to come back into the fold but Im really regretting giving this a try and dont know how long I will hang on with this book"

I can see why someone wouldn't be interested in this book if they didn't like Quire as a main character, or even if they just didn't like the wacky idiosyncrasies of the school itself; but other than those two (albeit significant) similarities, I don't think this book really has anything in common with Aaron's. Well, continuity, I guess, but for me it's just a completely different book.

Then again, I sort of feel like if Aaron did anything right in his run it was

1. making Quire the main character, and
2. making the school as weird and chaotic as possible,

so I guess for me this book is just doing a much better job with those two premises. And a lot of other things.

I do totally agree with you about the time-travel and Phoenix tropes, which have never interested me much in themselves, but I'm hoping that's just what the introductory arc is about to give it consistency with recent events. That Quire saw himself from the future as the Phoenix should be a thing he'd want to investigate, I'm just not interested in whether or not that happens anyway. I do like Quire, but for me this arc's been more about the characterization and storytelling than the plot itself. Basically, I'm loving it despite the plot.

@oldnightcrawler:

Hmm i never thought of that before but yeah the phoenix is becoming over-used. I'm actually sick of the phoenix but not with jean grey. Does anyone actually like quire??? He was ok when he was struggling to be good but now hes annoying. This week in UXM was good but its still slow pace (and now it was recaping its self like we didnt know what happen before, but we do). Did beast die in the end it looked like he did but of course its a ruse, lol. Damn cliff-hangers and Bendis.

@hopesummersforthefuture: I like Quire.

I get why people don't like him, he's kind of obnoxious. But that's actually a big part of what I like about him.

it's actually the same reason I didn't like Jubilee or Gambit when I was a kid; they seemed redundant compared to characters I liked more at the time and they were the most obnoxious members of the team. Now I love both of them, and Quire, in my mind, is the best new X-man to come out of the last 20 years.

@oldnightcrawler: Wow!!! Thats saying alot. Thats why there are many characters though. To each his own. Give me Hellion or Surge anyday. And I do hope Beast is dead. Is that wrong lol. Talk about Cyclops being an outcast, imagine if he's killed Beast after offing Xavier. Thats a real schism there.

I liked quire in riot at xavier and as the antagonist in schism but now he cleaned up his act. People are going to miss the old school Quire. Oh and miss how every blond he met he hit on like the cuckoos or magik, etc.

and Jean Grey. And Bling. To be fair, though Quire may wear his hormones on his sleeve, he only ever hit on one of the Cuckoos.

but I don't ever think he'll clean up his act enough to not be interesting, not anytime soon anyway.

and lyra:

lol.

This.

Though it looks like Rachel may have saved him judging by her reaction before the blast...

or magik. my vote is for magik

@koays: @hawk2916:

@oldnightcrawler: Yea, but he's sort of the poster boy for that generation. He gets a lot of attention and development so its hard to dislike him. Surge and Hellion are like the underdogs who never get a shot to be as interesting as Quire. Not that i'm taking away from him, just Hellion has been on the verge of a great character arc for 3 years and noone has bothered telling the story.

@hopesummersforthefuture - Maybe, but I think if Magik stopped him it would be too open and shut, If Rachel saves him then its a big fight before the other X-Men find out that Scott can't control his powers.

stupid cliff-hangers/to be continued, lol.

@oldnightcrawler:

cavil's a good word, thanks for that

I thought English is native to you. Hey, I myself learn something new everyday here.

Something else I really appreciated was seeing Storm fully acknowledge Rachel's criticism of her leadership, as well as Psylocke's support of it. While Psylocke's lines about the Storm that gave Cyclops the finger vs. the Storm that acted as headmaster might have been a little too meta and/or on the nose, it's still cool to see the characters acknowledge what the fans have been noticing for months in a way that still feels organic in-universe. The sub-plot with Shogo's dad was something I felt dumb for not anticipating, but seems like a great way to bring her back to the center of what was supposed to be her book, as well as a great excuse for a mysterious new villain.

Why meta, I think it is actually pretty consecutive. You all know that I'd like to see more of this to be explored (Storm's leadership), and that's the right course they're taking.

The part with Shogo's father is 100% cliche, but for some reason I don't mind it.

okay, actually, Magneto was brought up in a fairly significant way this issue, but even if he hadn't been

Not really, it was like "hey we still acknowledge Magneto's existence!". Where are the reactio ns of Cyclops, and the whole team, besides Tempus? What about the new Magneto's crusade? I don't expect it to turn into a fill-in for Magneto, but some references to clarify are needed.

I agree with your general main criticism about Bachelo, I don't think his art fits the book's tone.

@koays:

And between Psylocke's out of nowhere mention of the proto-mutant situation, and this week and last weeks All New, it makes me almost feel like people were reading the forum in the X-Men offices...which i wouldn't mind.

Lol I want to believe this is true.

@hawk2916:

really hope its one of the kids I dislike or dont care about but just my luck it will be Hellion or Surge

Give me Hellion or Surge anyday. And I do hope Beast is dead. Is that wrong lol.

You got my point man, you got it.

I find myself really questioning whether there's a need for the kill-squad anymore and some of this just feels forced.

Though I like me some fodder blood, I do agree I'm ready to see another take on the team's perception. They can be still that hardcore ready to kill badasses yet less stealth, more explosive powerhouse lineup. That said, Cable and X-force was kinda crappy.

I don't disagree with any of this, especially since I also like Surge and Hellion, but I just don't consider them, or the New X-men in general to be the underdogs.

I mean, they had their own book for 4 years, actually became X-men, and were beloved by almost all X-men fans. Quire really only got one story -one really good story that made him instantly iconic- before he was put on ice and forgotten about for a decade until Schism.

And people hate him! Most of the New X-men are somewhere between universally loved fan-favorites and characters that people feel never got a real chance (or both), but Quire, who's only getting his chance in the last couple years, is this completely polarizing figure in-universe and out; doesn't that make him more of the underdog?

True, they were both leaders of NXM and so many things happened to Hellion outside NXM run, there's a LOT to explore. Surge is right there with him, what is her position right now? Breaking up with Prodigy? An overlooked leader?

If this is not entertaining then what is? .p

Its hard to say. But I lean toward the New X-Men because despite being loved by fans, and having a cult favorite book, all of that was essentially made meaningless once the book was abruptly canceled and the cast became interchangeable background for the most part that were never explored again.
Quentin on the other hand had a big impact in a classic story that made him infamous. And the instant he was brought back to full time he was essentially Wolverine's sidekick and the face of the JGS student body. That makes him seem more entitled then like an Underdog

I dont get the rabid hate for him, but when he's portrayed as a cool jerk he's gonna get treated sorta like Wolverine does when fans get tired of him.

@adamtrmm - Hey i would spend a month of my comic budget buying an X-Book where Surge and Prodigy talked about what they've been up to since the breakup. Surge deserves a spot on a team at least.

I don't know if entitled is the right word, but I think I see your point. Really it is just a matter of personal preference.

Something I actually miss about Hellion is that he used to be more of a jerk, and somewhere along the way he went from being simply a loud-mouth brat to being a big brother-like jerk that put his friends first, which is sort of like what's happening to Quire (or what happened to Wolverine in the 80's).

Personally, I'd love to see Hellion, Surge, and Quire share the spotlight because I think they could each play off each other in some pretty interesting ways. Latour's given us the tiniest taste of what a rivalry between Quire and Hellion could bring to the table, seeing Surge have to navigate that relationship could be some great development for her as a leader. That sounds like team dynamic gold, to me.

It's just that if I had to pick between them, personally, I'd pick Quire every time.

And i miss Pixie. They try to build her up and now marvel is sick of her. At least x-23 is back too.

A book like that would be awesome. And i really hope they head in that direction with what i believe will be Jubilee's team in the next few issues. And personally i'm just hoping for any exposure beyond a cameo, because she's one of the few leaders among the younger x-men.

Also Hellion and Quire's similar journeys would make for great fire to add to a big rivalry, with Hellion being the guy everyone gave up on and Quire being the one they couldn't afford to.

@hopesummersforthefuture - Pixie, i think is going to be a player on Storm's team. I mean she's graduated to X-Man status, so if Storm is about to officially form the team i can see her getting the call. She's been pretty regularly featured in X-Men during Wood's run since the beginning so it may have been foreshadowing.

@oldnightcrawler: I just want to ask what issues are your favorites when it comes to Quire? Just so i can get a better picture/view of him. I notice alot of people have voted for him polls and like him and I want to make sure Im not missing something and have good picture. Though I keep up with the Xmen something may have slipped thru my fingers. I've just always seen Quire as a silly parody of the Xmen, who just does stuff for the heel of it and attention. You know with the pink hair and sunday-school toddler pants or girls capri's or whatever he hell he's wearing. I only liked him is the Pheonix:Endsong/Warsong stuff. Could he exist on a team in which he's not the leader?

mm, I hadn't thought of it quite like that, but I like it.

I think if the direction they're taking is to have Jubilee lead a student team I'm cool with that. She may not have much of a rapport with most of the students, but you know she's gone through all of the same kind of stuff that they have; in a lot of ways she's gone through more adversity than any of them: the murder of her parents, surviving on the streets, being a captive of Genosha and of Bastion, seeing her classmates killed by humans, losing her powers in the decimation -she's like a tragic X-kids' greatest hits.

And, also like the New X-men, Jubilee's been an X-man at least three times but never really been a senior member, so in a way it would be pretty cool to see her finally be able to bring her experience to a team where she'd be the most senior member.

That said, even if they do go in that direction, it seems like Surge should at least be on the team if she's going to still be at the school. It actually would make as much sense to still have her lead the team, maybe with Jubilee's guidance. Like how Storm had Wolverine's guidance when she was becoming the leader (in that one has way more experience while the other is more of a leader). Then again, I could just as easily see Surge leaving to start/join another team, which would be cool in another way.

yeah, I've seen her with Storm's team in some preview art. It makes sense. Even in the New X-men she was supposed to be one of the youngest characters, so having her be the junior member of Storm's team isn't really a step back or anything (like, say, when Cannonball joined the X-men), and she's one of the few younger characters to be able to bring a skill-set that they don't already have.

It's actually more weird that she wasn't included in this team from the get-go, since she was on Storm's team prior to either of them coming to the school.

Well, he does do stuff just to get attention, there's no denying that. His pink hair comes from his origin story and is just generally anti-establishment, and him wearing short pants comes from them being part of the school uniform; that he's the only one still wearing them just seems expressive of his unwillingness to grow up. You have to keep in mind that while Quire does ask serious questions, he doesn't himself want to be taken seriously because that would mean people would have expectations of him and he couldn't have as much fun.

That he consciously revels in his childishness is just what makes him so much fun to read; that he does so as a character we know is much more sensitive and intelligent than he lets on is sort of what makes his stance as a critique of the X-men hold some genuine weight.

anyway, if you want to know what the best Quire stories are, it's probably

Riot at Xavier's (from New X-Men (vol.1) #134-138. This is Quire's origin story and still his most notorious defining moment.

Wolverine & the X-Men (vol.1) #1-3. Despite liking his roles in both Phoenix: Endsong and Schism, he's really just a plot point in both of them, and though I wasn't a fan of Aaron's run, this is the arc that starts to redefine Quire as a more sympathetic character.

Wolverine and the X-Men: Alpha & Omega. This 5 issue mini (by Brian Wood) is sort of both a return to form and a last great prank (gone horribly wrong, of course) and really helps illustrate the change that Quire starts to go through.

A+X #4 - Captain America + Quentin Quire - The New Deal?! Wolverine makes Quire team up with Cap' and it actually ends up being kind of amazing, as Cap' seems to get Quire on a level that no one would expect.

Wolverine & the X-Men #27-28 - Savage Learning (Parts 3 and 4). Interesting premise, sort of, not such a great arc overall, but this is Quire's real test to become an X-man and is ultimately gratifying in that regard. Without reading the rest of the series, the end of this story might feel like it comes out of nowhere, but it's really sort of what Aaron had been building up to the whole time. I could give a few other relevant examples from Aaron's run, but most of the series is kind of all over the place and only really finds it's focus when Quire is at the center of it.

Latour's Wolverine & the X-Men (vol.2), on the other hand, seems to be handling Quire's story much better in just about every regard. If there was a way to illustrate what I like about Quire without Aaron's work, I honestly would have; but in truth the Quire that Latour is writing is a different character from Morrison's or even the one in Schism, not different at his core yet very much changed, and that change was largely though Aaron's work. Luckily, Quire's being handled great in this book, so I'd highly recommend it.

@oldnightcrawler: Hmm. I have to go back re-read New Xmen (its been a while). I may check out Alpha and Omega.

What do you think about him on a team of younger xmen? Would he have to be the leader or could he just co-exist as a member of a team? I kind of get the sense that personality is rebellious an uncooperative when it comes to the older Xmen he considers hypocrites. But what about his fellow contemporaries? What do you think?

I think it's been a good way to develop his character to make him feel a responsibility to the younger students, who follow him because he's cool and older, but I don't see him leading a team that had Surge, Hellion, or even Armor on it, if you see what I mean. It would be a waste of better leaders and of his skill as a foil.

I could see him being a central character on a team like that, but he needn't be the leader.

heck, I'd love to see him on a team like that, as a foil to Surge and/or Hellion. Also, didn't seem to have a problem taking orders from Jubilee, which I think is interesting. But even if none of those characters were on the team, I think I'd rather see him co-lead a team (with like Armor or Pixie or someone) than just be the sole leader, which would sort of be a waste of what I like about him as a foil.

@oldnightcrawler: I think Jubilee as the senior member of a team of young X-Men is too good to pass up. Though it may come at the cost of Surge. I mean even with my personal love of Surge, I think they may have difficulty fitting her onto a team as a former leader while Jubilee is new to this group.

Basically it could sort of create the same feel as Cyclops and Storm being on the same team, with storm basically being background whenever it happens. Still though, of the potential members of the team, Surge is on a short list of characters (as your JGS student poll showed) that people are interested in seeing join the group, though if it disrupts the feel of Jubilee's story i wouldn't be surprised if they dropped Surge from this line up for simplicity.

I think Wood's choice of running the secondary story as a back up is going to pay off majorly though, as short of having Broo and a team of Bamf's, people are going to want to see more of whatever lineup he chooses. This book is probably the most ripe with spin-off potential.

maybe it's because I'm more of a fan of Jubilee than Surge, but I tend to agree with this assessment. The squad we've seen with Jubilee so far is just solid anyway* , but making that a new context for her character to develop in, to go to another level on, is kind of perfect.

Even if it does have the unfortunate side effect of making Surge kind of redundant.

*(Quire, Hellion, Pixie, Mercury, Bling, Cipher, and Rockslide? -that's actually just a really cool team)

It's one of the things I hated about Cyclops as a kid, actually, so from that perspective I can see why they wouldn't want to split the leadership too much. Speaking of the poll, though, it makes me wonder how Jubilee would fare in popular opinion if people got to choose between her and Surge (or others) for leadership of this kind of team.

As much as I like Surge, the idea of Jubilee leading this team just really works for me, personally. But I wouldn't be surprised to find myself in the minority in that regard.

he's gotten some attention for just about every addition to the cast he's made, but I can't help but feel like that's because he's brought so many favorites back into the loop after being irrelevant for so long, trying to cram in as many characters who aren't Wolverine or Cyclops or Emma as possible, as much or more than because he's a particularly popular writer.

In this way, I'm actually kind of glad that he didn't end up with Kitty or Rogue, both of whom can easily dominate the spotlight. As much as the starting lineup excited me on paper, I'm really glad things ended up going in the direction they seem to be..

@koays: @oldnightcrawler: Thats interesting. While I like Jubilee. I like Surge as well and any new or young xmen team I think should include Surge. Making Jubilee the leader of a young xmen team is almost a disservice to her in my opinion. Its almost like: when will she be taken seriously if she's always stuck with the junior teams? Jubilee is Generation X, so if Chamber and Monet and even Husk can be on the adult teams why should Jubilee have to round up the juniors? Its sort of how I feel about most of generations after the originals. The New Mutants shouldn't have to be relegated to junior status leading a young team. In my opinion, Rogue, Kitty, Rachel grey, The New Mutants and Generation X should be doing their own thing and either graduated to full-fledged members of the Xmen or off somewhere with their own team formed and doing things their own way. In addition to that, I feel like the New Xmen/Academy X students along with Quire and Armor shouldn't be stuck at a school either but should have graduated seeing as how most of them should be late teens 17-19 and early 20's and either working as a support team or again off on their own. I mean lets face it, those kids have arguably handled themselves as good or better than the big dogs so to speak. I've felt this way for a while, even when New mutants volume 3 ( I believe-Zeb Wells) brought the team back together and their purpose was to tie-up lose ends, I loved that they were back and some of the stories were decent. But I always felt that the purpose of that team could have been filled by the younger class of New Xmen. Dani and Sunspot and Cannonball should be in the big leagues just like Illyana all of a sudden is. And to me, Jubilee should be a full-fledged member of the Xmen along with Storm and Wolverine and all the others. I just wouldn't stick her babysitting a younger group as I think its a disservice to both her and them.

@hawk2916: I see where your coming from. To me the New Mutants in 09, were really on par with everyone else since they were treated as X-Men by Cyclops and there technically weren't any other "teams" within the X-Men at that time. That said, there's a scene in X-Men Legacy (set after Schism) where Cannonball asks a question about Rogue and it felt as though he was depicted as a child asking when his mom is coming home. It's like all the growing he did in his book didn't count.

But to me Jubilee leading a team of young X-Men shows her growth, since she'd basically be saying that she's leaned enough to be a leader in her own right and that she sees the potential in the kids that the X-Men don't. Plus if she decided to lead instead of joining Storms team it would be a step out of the 'junior team' shadow. And the kids get to step up in a way that says their finally ready, because despite everything they survived, i almost think the moral of the New X-Men's story (especially under Kyle&Yost) was that these kids weren't ready at the time. Though even if she doesn't fit with Jubilee, I agree that the line up doesn't seem right without Surge much like the Young X-Men book.

As for all the kids being stuck at the school, i think it would make the school a lot less appealing if i didn't know the New/Young X-Men, Quire, Armor and the others weren't around, but some of the newer ones still were. Plus i wouldn't want what happened to the Gen X kids to happen to them, where they disappear until someone needs a shocking moment and then end up de-powered/dead/turned into Apocalypse. And it will be either that or obscurity since there are so many of them, so i prefer them to be in JGS background/limbo with hope that they'll move up to X-Men status or get their own book again one day.

Well, Jubilee is on Storm's team as well, so it's not like she's not a full X-man at this point. But even with M on that team, Jubilee's still the youngest member, so having her have her own team where she's the most senior member actually seems like it would develop her character more because it makes her one of the leaders. And in that way it would give the New X-men some representation on the main team, which sort of makes them more like full X-men again.

While I agree that this role could also be filled by Surge instead, it seems to me that it does more for both Jubilee's character and the New X-men's status to have it be her because with Surge as the leader it would be a lot easier to just think of that team as the junior team and not the other main field team. Like if Storm's team is the new Gold team, Jubilee's would be the new Blue team -a development that not only gives all the new X-men on her team the cred they deserve, but sees her develop into the leader of a team she was once the kid sidekick of.

Again, that does make Surge a bit redundant, but it also gives her a reason to leave the school and be developed elsewhere. Maybe she could join Cyclops' team, since she's always had a great rapport with him and Emma. Personally, I'd love to see the original New Mutants get back together and have her (and maybe Prodigy?) join that team.

I agree that not having the New Mutants as their own team seems a bit of a waste. But I still think having M join the main team, having Rachel be second in charge (even above Wolverine), and having Jubilee lead her own main team does more for all of those characters' relevance than never letting them get to that level by relegating them to a less central team.

1.) Which is why they should get to be on the main team, rather than having them leave, I think. Let the New X-men take on the roles that Gambit/Rogue/Psylocke/Jubilee had in the 90's blue team as support members on one of the primary field teams. People tend to forget that they were the junior members at that time because they were on the same team as Cyclops and Wolverine; the same could happen for the New X-men if Wood's integration of them continued.

2.) I agree that Moonstar and Cannonball deserve to more than being errand boys for the main team, but that's why they should just have their own separate group. They should just reinstate the New Mutants or X-force as a separate entity from the X-men or the school.

3.) Like I say, I think giving Jubilee her own squad right along side of Storm's does more for her character than just being the youngest member of the main team; both for her and the New X-men. Really it's Quire and Armor who are babysitting, and that works too.

@oldnightcrawler: Yeah. I just see it differently. its almost like being stuck at the little kiddie card table for Thanksgiving instead of at the big rectangle one with everyone else. While I realize Jubilee is the youngest it just doesn't seem like character development to me for her to lead a team of younger students. Now if she were leading a team of her peers or even older Xmen I could see that.

I agree with you about Surge, which i think we've discussed before. Honestly X-23 being stuck in all new and not on Cyclops revolutionary team is a bit of a drag too imo. I would also agree about the New Xmen filling the roles that Gambit,Rogue,Psylocke and Jubilee had, but the only problem is... where does that leave the other older unused xmen characters? Also while Wood is doing a decent job with a larger cast overall we lose some character focus when we get these huge teams of more than 8 members. Again the way Wood is doing it seems to be great and it does feel a bit similar to the 90's teams.

What if she were leading that team, but there was someone older following her lead on the team as well. Colossus is coming back, him or Nightcrawler could be cool on Jubilee's team.

A lot of the older characters seem to either not be at the school anyway. Cyclops and Emma are gone, Gambit and Rogue are gone, Iceman and Beast are really just supporting characters at this point. That really only leaves Storm's team, Wolverine (who's mostly babysitting at this point, if he's even still around), and Nightcrawler. So that makes it seem like there should be plenty of room for some New X-men to be the bulk of a second squad.

@oldnightcrawler:

What if she were leading that team, but there was someone older following her lead on the team as well. Colossus is coming back, him or Nightcrawler could be cool on Jubilee's team.

That's what im talking about. That would be great actually. A mix of older and younger with Jubilee leading. In fact I think she was some type of team leader in an alternate reality or something.

A lot of the older characters seem to either not be at the school anyway. Cyclops and Emma are gone, Gambit and Rogue are gone, Iceman and Beast are really just supporting characters at this point. That really only leaves Storm's team, Wolverine (who's mostly babysitting at this point, if he's even still around), and Nightcrawler. So that makes it seem like there should be plenty of room for some New X-men to be the bulk of a second squad.

See this is part of what aggravates me. All those characters you mentioned are just nowhere really. I know Cyclops and Emma are in Bendis' book but Emma is really nothing there. She might as well be in limbo. Rogue is dead and no one is acknowledging it. Gambit has been pushed out and is now in a satellite concoction of a book on a corporate team. Which by the way is not meant as a knock on PAD as i think he's an awesome writer but imo this corporate team premise is very weak and has a bottom of the creative barrel feel to me. Iceman really should have been with Cyclops after the Schism anyway and now after his good arc in Astonishing he's nothing again. Beast stays in a lab coat doing God knows what. I keep hearing that wolverine is the best at what he does but I haven't seen any evidence of that in quite a while. Im glad Nightcrawler is back but didnt Aaron and company just recycle PAD's idea with Strong Guy by having Nightcrawler the heart and moral compass of the Xmen now be without a soul?

...I digress....

It does seem to make some room for them on the main squad its just that with Storm, Rachel, Monet, Psylocke and Jubilee you are already at 5 members, so at most what can we get 3 more? Maybe Hellion, Dust and Pixie? I guess that could work but that is approaching a large team which time and time again gets to be unruly in many writers hands.

See, I don't see it that way, really

1. I agree that Emma could have a bigger role, but having her in one of the best books isn't nowhere.
2. Rogue was a main character spinning her wheels for years, so I don't mind if she's dead for a few months for the sake of what's been a good story. She'll be back.
3. Even if your criticism of the premise is sound, the book itself is still great and he's the main character, so it's not nowhere.
4. This I just strait disagree with.
5. Beast and Wolverine can stand to be less central, supporting characters anyway.
6. mm.. okay, I guess this one is kind of like that, yeah.

I was thinking of it being like two full squads, like in the 90's. There was like 15 X-men then, split between two overlapping teams (the gold and blue teams). Wood's already given us a template of how this could work, with Storm's team being one squad, Jubilee's being the other, and the other senior members being more in the support staff roles.

Each squad could have their own missions/stories and still be supporting characters for the other squad; It would still be less characters to focus on overall than when Cyclops ran squads out of the old school. I think it could work great, personally.

What I don't think we've spoken on is how the solo titles will effect the team titles in the future. I mean comparing Nightcrawler's solo to Amazing X-Men #6 and it felt redundant. Almost as though they both should've been told in the solo.

If that's the route they decide to go, with characters like Storm and Wolverine having their stories told in solos, will that help or hinder a book like Wood's X-Men which is built strongly around Storm's character and her decisions. I mean as interested as i am in Jubilee and the New X-men a big part of what makes the older characters storyline work is that Storm is adapting and developing along with the story.

@koays: did usee the new uncanny avengers book??? why is storm wearing white, i thougt that color was fro emma only. maybe emm's subcousious isin storm's body???here a pick:

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

@koays: did usee the new uncanny avengers book??? why is storm wearing white, i thougt that color was fro emma only. maybe emm's subcousious isin storm's body???here a pick:

Yea i picked that up...though considering how Storm vs Doom went i doubt if the point will ever be explored.

@koays: Thats exactly why I think solos are such a waste. Those stories could be told within the book. Especially since in most solos its sort of a team up with another character or two anyway. I know its a money grab for Marvel but at some point we should get quality over quantity. But really its like talking in the wind because we really could stop this but many continue to support stupidity and mediocrity.

Very true. I feel like instead of telling about Nightcrawlers family in Amazing and his girlfriend in the solo, if we just told them one at a time in Amazing alongside the other characters plots it would give the book more to work with long term. Same with Magneto, if his story was being told the same way in a few pages of Uncanny that would make that book the total package.

But as you say, people will complain about it but it won't stop as long as Marvel sees the profit. I have every issue of Aaron's WatX-Men that i continued to buy in some insane hope it would improve...but like the average fan I'd rather read a pointless/bad/nonsensical issue, then run the risk of the day i decided to go on strike be the day something awesome happens in one of my pulls.

This is why I'm not really interested in Storm having a solo book, despite being one of my favorite characters. She's my favorite as the leader of the X-men; even some of her solo adventures in the 80's were essentially about her character developing because she was so central to the team, so they belonged in the team's book. If she's just doing stuff that makes her less central to the story, why would I care?

I mean, Wolverine's one of my favorites, too, and I don't read his solo books for the same reason.

It's like Mr.Fantastic having a solo book: yeah, he's a great character, but if his solo story isn't important enough to tell as part of a Fantastic 4 comic, then really what's the point?

Agreed. Though what i feel is the strangest thing about the trend is that the thing that has been missing from most of the X-Men titles, from fraction to Aaron, is character development. I mean we've spent years without any real personal storylines or character arcs being played out, and now were being given these solo's which is exactly the type of character driven stuff we needed, and yet because these developments aren't happening alongside the team it makes them unimportant.

I mean Wolverine lost his healing factor which was a huge story for the character, but i haven't once felt it's impact in titles i read. So as far as i'm concerned its done nothing for the team books, even when they could've used a interesting side plot in some of the books.

There's been some, but I think it's been more that we've seen more characters become background than that we haven't had any development at all. Both Fraction and Aaron had huge casts, but primarily focused on two or three characters at a time, rather than having a real tight-knit group dynamic that developed characters based on each other. Cyclops, Wolverine, Rogue, Psylocke, Beast, Quire, Broo, the Cuckoos, and a few others have all had enough exposure in that time to have seen significant development in the last bunch of years, primarily based on their relationships to each other (and others).

Marjorie Liu had an interesting, more old school approach in which each arc gave focus to a different member of the group while still using the other members as the constant context. So each member had their chance to be developed in focus for at least one arc. Of the stories themselves, only really the Iceman arc (and maybe the Warbird one) stood out as being especially strong, but her run did have the most developed and distinct group dynamic and identity of it's time*, and I can't help but feel like it was that approach to developing the characters really helped achieve that.

*(Wood seemed to employ a similar approach at the time, but with a less distinct group that had a different line up in every arc, thus never really attaining the same level of group identity; it was essentially Storm's story, and with her, Colossus, and Psylocke all being on the Extinction team, it only really felt distinct in that regard.)

It has felt like both Wolverine and Beast are becoming less central to the stories overall, which to me feels fairly organic with all they've done in the last several years. Wolverine never wanted to be in charge to begin with, so with Storm and Nightcrawler both back, it makes sense that his story would take it's own turn away from the main one; he's always been that guy: there when he's needed, but still a more solitary figure overall.

It's part of why it kind of works for me that characters like him or Beast or Rogue or Havok, etc, do things other than be X-men because it gives some actual reason for them to not be central all the time, thus handing the story back to Storm, Nightcrawler, Rachel, etc, so they can have their turns as central characters again.

I get that Cyclops, Woverine, Rogue and Psylocke were the view point characters of the books for a time, and development was told as relates to them. And i think even that method for all its faults was more successful then a straight out solo. But again after so long, with that type of focus it was time for them to step away from their vice like control of the books.

The problem i see is that the other characters haven't stepped up yet. I mean two weeks ago who could we say were the central characters of the books? Quire, Jubilee.... Wolverine appears in 6 books a month but can't be developed in any of them because of his solo, and yet we can't see anyone really capitalize off of this absence in the stories.

While Beast, Rogue and Wolverine have a reason not to be focused on it seems everyone else is there to just be present without any stories being told ABOUT them, but a lot happening around them. The search for Nightcrawler arc felt so impersonal even for the focus character. And while it all sounds whiny, I just don't want to see a Storm or Nightcrawler solo if i don't see where others may benefit from their development being done else where.

yeah, well that's kind of where I'm at too. I mean, Storm's only just started being central again in the last few months (despite being back for a while now) and Nightcrawler just got back; I'd rather see both of them become more central within the story than leave it for whatever reason at this point.

I do think we've seen some other characters step up in that time, most notably Rachel, Quire, Oya, and Hellion.. But you're right that, with the exception of Quire, we haven't really had a story about those characters yet, which is what would really make it work.