Rabbitearsblog's Top 5 Moments from "X-Men: Mutant Massacre!"

Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone knows that " X-Men: Mutant Massacre" was probably one of the most pivotal storylines in the X-Men comics as it dealt with the genocide of the Morlock population and it detailed the changes in some of the characters.  After reading this story line ( see my review), I had decided to list my top 5 moments from this significant event and here they are:
 
5. Angel being Crucified

 
 
Anyone who remembered the moment where Angel is crucified by the Marauders after trying to save the Morlocks might have been shocked at this brutal image.  It was definitely a moment that really changed Angel's life forever as you will see in the future X-Men stories after this event.  Also, seeing a beloved member of the X-Men being tortured was probably one of the most frightening things I had ever seen come out of the X-Men comics.
 
4. Daredevil vs. Saber tooth 
 

It was surprising seeing Daredevil make his appearance in "Mutant Massacre."  His story takes place after the Morlocks were wiped out by the Marauders and he ends up going head to toe with Saber tooth, who happens to be staying in the Morlocks' old home in the sewers.  This fight was truly memorable to me because we were able to see Daredevil use his acrobatic skills to fight off Saber tooth, which was really impressive!
 
3. Psylocke joins the X-Men 

Now that Psylocke is one of the most recognizable X-Men characters ever created, the scene where she is fighting Saber tooth for the first time was a truly memorable moment for me!  Not only did this moment helped Psylocke be able to join the X-Men, but seeing her use her telepathic powers to fight off Saber tooth was truly brilliant to see and it was great seeing a young Psylocke fighting on her own to protect the Institute.
 
2. Wolverine vs. Saber tooth 


 
Everybody knows that Wolverine and Saber tooth had this long running rivalry among themselves for many years.  Well, this particular fight scene between the two enemies really defined their rivalry with each other and according to some comic book resources, this was one of their first major fights with each other.  I had always enjoyed seeing Wolverine and Saber tooth fight each other since they had so much history with each other and this fight scene between the two of them definitely didn't disappoint me! 
 
1. Colossus snapping Riptide's neck 

This moment was my number 1 favorite moment because it involves one of my favorite X-Men characters, Colossus, going to the deep end and actually killing Riptide by snapping his neck after both Nightcrawler and Kitty Pryde were injured.  This moment was so shocking because who would have expected the gentle Russian giant to kill another person?  Even the other X-Men were shocked by this act.
 
Well, that's my top 5 moments in "X-Men: Mutant Massacre!"  So, what are your favorite scenes in "X-Men: Mutant Massacre?"
#1 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

aw, yeah! Rick Leonardi and Alan Davis in their prime!

this is maybe a less remembered scene, but I really like that part where Callisto calls out Storm on her bullshit. Great character moment for these two.

#2 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

aw, yeah! Rick Leonardi and Alan Davis in their prime!

this is maybe a less remembered scene, but I really like that part where Callisto calls out Storm on her bullshit. Great character moment for these two.

Agreed. Callisto telling Storm to man up was great.

#3 Posted by Rickbarry (1752 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't even remember Daredevil in Mutant Massacre!

#4 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rickbarry said:

I don't even remember Daredevil in Mutant Massacre!

I think he was in one of the crossover titles like Thor was.

#5 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (3453 posts) - - Show Bio

Psylocke beating Sabretooth was one of my favorite moments. I actually liked the initial version of her character and am not a fan of the ninja version. I don't see anything wrong with a superhero not being a ninja, spy, assassin or warrior, and liked how she acted as the communications conduit for the team. I especially liked seeing a psi bolt take him down - I get bored of the melee fighters getting all the good scenes.

#6 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio
@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Psylocke beating Sabretooth was one of my favorite moments. I actually liked the initial version of her character and am not a fan of the ninja version. I don't see anything wrong with a superhero not being a ninja, spy, assassin or warrior, and liked how she acted as the communications conduit for the team. I especially liked seeing a psi bolt take him down - I get bored of the melee fighters getting all the good scenes.

I really liked this appearance of Psylocke too! I've always wondered what she was like before she became a ninja! 
 
@Blood1991 said:

@dangallant984 said:

aw, yeah! Rick Leonardi and Alan Davis in their prime!

this is maybe a less remembered scene, but I really like that part where Callisto calls out Storm on her bullshit. Great character moment for these two.

Agreed. Callisto telling Storm to man up was great.

Oh yeah! I loved that moment too!  There needs to be more moments where another character tries to get the leader to straighten up!
#7 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides: yeah, that's something I really like too. Like the way they've used Karma and Cecilia in Astonishing lately. it's smart.

#8 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio
@Rickbarry said:

I don't even remember Daredevil in Mutant Massacre!

Thor, Power Pack and New Mutants were also in this crossover.
#9 Posted by cattlebattle (12598 posts) - - Show Bio
@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Psylocke beating Sabretooth was one of my favorite moments. I actually liked the initial version of her character and am not a fan of the ninja version. I don't see anything wrong with a superhero not being a ninja, spy, assassin or warrior, and liked how she acted as the communications conduit for the team. I especially liked seeing a psi bolt take him down - I get bored of the melee fighters getting all the good scenes.

I think Claremont was jumping on the bandwagon of the popularity of Elektra and ninjas, as the character and concept was really popular in comics at the time, as Psylocke is very similar to Elektra in her costume and gimmick. I think it also had to do with her being hard to write because she was usless in battle at times, I seem to remember this was an issue during the X-Mens outback days.
#10 Posted by Tazirai (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Psylocke beating Sabretooth was one of my favorite moments. I actually liked the initial version of her character and am not a fan of the ninja version. I don't see anything wrong with a superhero not being a ninja, spy, assassin or warrior, and liked how she acted as the communications conduit for the team. I especially liked seeing a psi bolt take him down - I get bored of the melee fighters getting all the good scenes.

I agree. This is the Psylocke I fell in love with, and my favorite version of her. I hate that everybody has to be some Ninja in order to be written well. Marvel is the only comic group that does this. They can't figure out how to help a character contribute, so they turn them into a Ninja. Theres a vast amount of warrior types out there that aren't ninja's. To me the Non Physical Psylocke was a capable fighter, She just used her Telepathy instead of her fists. If they wanted her to compete against machines. They could have given her technopathy. I'm sick of purelfy and Only people with physical powers. Marvel needs to change alot. The Legion is full of non physical fighters, and they make due. Saturn Girl rarely ever throws a punch, or Projectra, yet they use their powers to make up for it. Even pick up a weapon when need be.

@cattlebattle said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Psylocke beating Sabretooth was one of my favorite moments. I actually liked the initial version of her character and am not a fan of the ninja version. I don't see anything wrong with a superhero not being a ninja, spy, assassin or warrior, and liked how she acted as the communications conduit for the team. I especially liked seeing a psi bolt take him down - I get bored of the melee fighters getting all the good scenes.

I think Claremont was jumping on the bandwagon of the popularity of Elektra and ninjas, as the character and concept was really popular in comics at the time, as Psylocke is very similar to Elektra in her costume and gimmick. I think it also had to do with her being hard to write because she was usless in battle at times, I seem to remember this was an issue during the X-Mens outback days.

I agree with this assessment mostly. Execept that in many issues Psylocke would simply dominate a fight alot. Like one issue where she takes on several Brotherhood members alone. She was used as communications, tactician, Support combat, interrogator, and long range snoop. She fielded many roles. She didn't need to engage in fisticuffs to be interesting. They just had to think outside the box. They screwed up with Emma also. Why the need to give her a Diamond form? I play Mutants and Masterminds, and run a non ninja/asian Psylocke. She'd still get her ass handed to her in a fight, but I boosted up her tactical prowess a bunch. I gave her Technopathy to help combat machines. Gave her a subtler Mind control, so foes didn't even know she was trying to control them. Oodles of leadership skills, and charisma, Boosted her monetary profile to use that Braddock cash to fund adventures and new tech. Incorporated some stealth into a new armour. I mean it's possible to use a weak combatant in a fight, without turning them into a ninja or killing them like they did Doug Ramsey.

#11 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@Tazirai said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Psylocke beating Sabretooth was one of my favorite moments. I actually liked the initial version of her character and am not a fan of the ninja version. I don't see anything wrong with a superhero not being a ninja, spy, assassin or warrior, and liked how she acted as the communications conduit for the team. I especially liked seeing a psi bolt take him down - I get bored of the melee fighters getting all the good scenes.

I agree. This is the Psylocke I fell in love with, and my favorite version of her. I hate that everybody has to be some Ninja in order to be written well. Marvel is the only comic group that does this. They can't figure out how to help a character contribute, so they turn them into a Ninja. Theres a vast amount of warrior types out there that aren't ninja's. To me the Non Physical Psylocke was a capable fighter, She just used her Telepathy instead of her fists. If they wanted her to compete against machines. They could have given her technopathy. I'm sick of purelfy and Only people with physical powers. Marvel needs to change alot. The Legion is full of non physical fighters, and they make due. Saturn Girl rarely ever throws a punch, or Projectra, yet they use their powers to make up for it. Even pick up a weapon when need be.

@cattlebattle said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Psylocke beating Sabretooth was one of my favorite moments. I actually liked the initial version of her character and am not a fan of the ninja version. I don't see anything wrong with a superhero not being a ninja, spy, assassin or warrior, and liked how she acted as the communications conduit for the team. I especially liked seeing a psi bolt take him down - I get bored of the melee fighters getting all the good scenes.

I think Claremont was jumping on the bandwagon of the popularity of Elektra and ninjas, as the character and concept was really popular in comics at the time, as Psylocke is very similar to Elektra in her costume and gimmick. I think it also had to do with her being hard to write because she was usless in battle at times, I seem to remember this was an issue during the X-Mens outback days.

I agree with this assessment mostly. Execept that in many issues Psylocke would simply dominate a fight alot. Like one issue where she takes on several Brotherhood members alone. She was used as communications, tactician, Support combat, interrogator, and long range snoop. She fielded many roles. She didn't need to engage in fisticuffs to be interesting. They just had to think outside the box. They screwed up with Emma also. Why the need to give her a Diamond form? I play Mutants and Masterminds, and run a non ninja/asian Psylocke. She'd still get her ass handed to her in a fight, but I boosted up her tactical prowess a bunch. I gave her Technopathy to help combat machines. Gave her a subtler Mind control, so foes didn't even know she was trying to control them. Oodles of leadership skills, and charisma, Boosted her monetary profile to use that Braddock cash to fund adventures and new tech. Incorporated some stealth into a new armour. I mean it's possible to use a weak combatant in a fight, without turning them into a ninja or killing them like they did Doug Ramsey.

It was really interesting seeing Psylocke just originally shooting her telepathic powers at enemies. I just get really great memories from seeing these classic comics again!

#12 Posted by time (4913 posts) - - Show Bio
@Rabbitearsblog said:

@Tazirai said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Psylocke beating Sabretooth was one of my favorite moments. I actually liked the initial version of her character and am not a fan of the ninja version. I don't see anything wrong with a superhero not being a ninja, spy, assassin or warrior, and liked how she acted as the communications conduit for the team. I especially liked seeing a psi bolt take him down - I get bored of the melee fighters getting all the good scenes.

I agree. This is the Psylocke I fell in love with, and my favorite version of her. I hate that everybody has to be some Ninja in order to be written well. Marvel is the only comic group that does this. They can't figure out how to help a character contribute, so they turn them into a Ninja. Theres a vast amount of warrior types out there that aren't ninja's. To me the Non Physical Psylocke was a capable fighter, She just used her Telepathy instead of her fists. If they wanted her to compete against machines. They could have given her technopathy. I'm sick of purelfy and Only people with physical powers. Marvel needs to change alot. The Legion is full of non physical fighters, and they make due. Saturn Girl rarely ever throws a punch, or Projectra, yet they use their powers to make up for it. Even pick up a weapon when need be.

@cattlebattle said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Psylocke beating Sabretooth was one of my favorite moments. I actually liked the initial version of her character and am not a fan of the ninja version. I don't see anything wrong with a superhero not being a ninja, spy, assassin or warrior, and liked how she acted as the communications conduit for the team. I especially liked seeing a psi bolt take him down - I get bored of the melee fighters getting all the good scenes.

I think Claremont was jumping on the bandwagon of the popularity of Elektra and ninjas, as the character and concept was really popular in comics at the time, as Psylocke is very similar to Elektra in her costume and gimmick. I think it also had to do with her being hard to write because she was usless in battle at times, I seem to remember this was an issue during the X-Mens outback days.

I agree with this assessment mostly. Execept that in many issues Psylocke would simply dominate a fight alot. Like one issue where she takes on several Brotherhood members alone. She was used as communications, tactician, Support combat, interrogator, and long range snoop. She fielded many roles. She didn't need to engage in fisticuffs to be interesting. They just had to think outside the box. They screwed up with Emma also. Why the need to give her a Diamond form? I play Mutants and Masterminds, and run a non ninja/asian Psylocke. She'd still get her ass handed to her in a fight, but I boosted up her tactical prowess a bunch. I gave her Technopathy to help combat machines. Gave her a subtler Mind control, so foes didn't even know she was trying to control them. Oodles of leadership skills, and charisma, Boosted her monetary profile to use that Braddock cash to fund adventures and new tech. Incorporated some stealth into a new armour. I mean it's possible to use a weak combatant in a fight, without turning them into a ninja or killing them like they did Doug Ramsey.

It was really interesting seeing Psylocke just originally shooting her telepathic powers at enemies. I just get really great memories from seeing these classic comics again!
 
Cool thread, you should do one for a series or another story arc.

#13 Posted by NightHaunter (111 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

#14 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@Tazirai said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Psylocke beating Sabretooth was one of my favorite moments. I actually liked the initial version of her character and am not a fan of the ninja version. I don't see anything wrong with a superhero not being a ninja, spy, assassin or warrior, and liked how she acted as the communications conduit for the team. I especially liked seeing a psi bolt take him down - I get bored of the melee fighters getting all the good scenes.

I agree. This is the Psylocke I fell in love with, and my favorite version of her. I hate that everybody has to be some Ninja in order to be written well. Marvel is the only comic group that does this. They can't figure out how to help a character contribute, so they turn them into a Ninja. Theres a vast amount of warrior types out there that aren't ninja's. To me the Non Physical Psylocke was a capable fighter, She just used her Telepathy instead of her fists. If they wanted her to compete against machines. They could have given her technopathy. I'm sick of purelfy and Only people with physical powers. Marvel needs to change alot. The Legion is full of non physical fighters, and they make due. Saturn Girl rarely ever throws a punch, or Projectra, yet they use their powers to make up for it. Even pick up a weapon when need be.

@cattlebattle said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

Psylocke beating Sabretooth was one of my favorite moments. I actually liked the initial version of her character and am not a fan of the ninja version. I don't see anything wrong with a superhero not being a ninja, spy, assassin or warrior, and liked how she acted as the communications conduit for the team. I especially liked seeing a psi bolt take him down - I get bored of the melee fighters getting all the good scenes.

I think Claremont was jumping on the bandwagon of the popularity of Elektra and ninjas, as the character and concept was really popular in comics at the time, as Psylocke is very similar to Elektra in her costume and gimmick. I think it also had to do with her being hard to write because she was usless in battle at times, I seem to remember this was an issue during the X-Mens outback days.

I agree with this assessment mostly. Execept that in many issues Psylocke would simply dominate a fight alot. Like one issue where she takes on several Brotherhood members alone. She was used as communications, tactician, Support combat, interrogator, and long range snoop. She fielded many roles. She didn't need to engage in fisticuffs to be interesting. They just had to think outside the box. They screwed up with Emma also. Why the need to give her a Diamond form? I play Mutants and Masterminds, and run a non ninja/asian Psylocke. She'd still get her ass handed to her in a fight, but I boosted up her tactical prowess a bunch. I gave her Technopathy to help combat machines. Gave her a subtler Mind control, so foes didn't even know she was trying to control them. Oodles of leadership skills, and charisma, Boosted her monetary profile to use that Braddock cash to fund adventures and new tech. Incorporated some stealth into a new armour. I mean it's possible to use a weak combatant in a fight, without turning them into a ninja or killing them like they did Doug Ramsey.

It was really interesting seeing Psylocke just originally shooting her telepathic powers at enemies. I just get really great memories from seeing these classic comics again!

Cool thread, you should do one for a series or another story arc.

Thanks!! I might do one for Dark Phoenix Saga or Days of Future Past!

#15 Posted by Tazirai (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@NightHaunter said:

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

Agreed. I always wish CC woulda let the aussie team stay together awhile longer. My hope is one day for an alternate universe Aussie book, where they continued to fight Zaladane and the mutates, and made it back in time with more members to combat the Reaver threat!

#16 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@Tazirai said:

@NightHaunter said:

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

Agreed. I always wish CC woulda let the aussie team stay together awhile longer. My hope is one day for an alternate universe Aussie book, where they continued to fight Zaladane and the mutates, and made it back in time with more members to combat the Reaver threat!

Which issues were the Australian outback years? I haven't read those issues yet, but I've heard great things about it.

#17 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@NightHaunter said:

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

totally get this. I've often thought that the loss of Kitty, Rachel and the Nightcrawler signaled the end of the classic age. I mean, I loved those old Excaliber issues, but the X-men proper would take years to recover after this.

#18 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7266 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@Tazirai said:

@NightHaunter said:

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

Agreed. I always wish CC woulda let the aussie team stay together awhile longer. My hope is one day for an alternate universe Aussie book, where they continued to fight Zaladane and the mutates, and made it back in time with more members to combat the Reaver threat!

Which issues were the Australian outback years? I haven't read those issues yet, but I've heard great things about it.

Omgosh...

Online
#19 Edited by NightHaunter (111 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@Tazirai said:

@NightHaunter said:

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

Agreed. I always wish CC woulda let the aussie team stay together awhile longer. My hope is one day for an alternate universe Aussie book, where they continued to fight Zaladane and the mutates, and made it back in time with more members to combat the Reaver threat!

Which issues were the Australian outback years? I haven't read those issues yet, but I've heard great things about it.

I believe it starts issue issue 229. But there's a pretty lengthy and decent arc with Forge leading into it. I have very mixed feelings on the outback years too but I think in large part it's because I hate Storm. On the other hand Psylocke has some good times and Havok almost breaches likeable.

#20 Posted by Tazirai (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@Tazirai said:

@NightHaunter said:

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

Agreed. I always wish CC woulda let the aussie team stay together awhile longer. My hope is one day for an alternate universe Aussie book, where they continued to fight Zaladane and the mutates, and made it back in time with more members to combat the Reaver threat!

Which issues were the Australian outback years? I haven't read those issues yet, but I've heard great things about it.

Issues 229 until roughly 251.

#21 Posted by Tazirai (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

@NightHaunter said:

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

totally get this. I've often thought that the loss of Kitty, Rachel and the Nightcrawler signaled the end of the classic age. I mean, I loved those old Excaliber issues, but the X-men proper would take years to recover after this.

One of the things I'd always wanted was for Psylocke to leave the X-men and join Exaclibur with her brother.

Instead of getting all hard and gritty, she could have replaced Rachel, who would go back to the main team. It would really have been like a family book. Brother, Sister, Sister in Law, and Kitty and Nightcrawler.

Excalibur had a sense of fun and adventure, that Psylocke would have fit right in with, WITHOUT having to become some silly action junkie ninja girl.

#22 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@Tazirai said:

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@Tazirai said:

@NightHaunter said:

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

Agreed. I always wish CC woulda let the aussie team stay together awhile longer. My hope is one day for an alternate universe Aussie book, where they continued to fight Zaladane and the mutates, and made it back in time with more members to combat the Reaver threat!

Which issues were the Australian outback years? I haven't read those issues yet, but I've heard great things about it.

Issues 229 until roughly 251.

Thanks! I'll have to check it out!

#23 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

@Tazirai said:

@Rabbitearsblog said:

@Tazirai said:

@NightHaunter said:

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

Agreed. I always wish CC woulda let the aussie team stay together awhile longer. My hope is one day for an alternate universe Aussie book, where they continued to fight Zaladane and the mutates, and made it back in time with more members to combat the Reaver threat!

Which issues were the Australian outback years? I haven't read those issues yet, but I've heard great things about it.

Issues 229 until roughly 251.

Well, Uncanny X-Men was truly rebooted in #282 and when the 90s Animated Series team was in effect.

I liked the Aussie team, but I think the whole X-Men being separated issues were my favourite, I have collected from Inferno (#239 I think) ALL THE WAY TO Legion Quest (#3somethingsomething)

#24 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Tazirai said:

@dangallant984 said:

@NightHaunter said:

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

totally get this. I've often thought that the loss of Kitty, Rachel and the Nightcrawler signaled the end of the classic age. I mean, I loved those old Excaliber issues, but the X-men proper would take years to recover after this.

One of the things I'd always wanted was for Psylocke to leave the X-men and join Exaclibur with her brother.

Instead of getting all hard and gritty, she could have replaced Rachel, who would go back to the main team. It would really have been like a family book. Brother, Sister, Sister in Law, and Kitty and Nightcrawler.

Excalibur had a sense of fun and adventure, that Psylocke would have fit right in with, WITHOUT having to become some silly action junkie ninja girl.

I totally had that same fantasy, back in the day. but, in the long run, I'm kinda glad it didn't work out that way. Firstly, because it was reading Rachel in Excaliber that made me really like her, but also, as much as I don't think Psylocke needed the ninja treatment to be a cool character, nor was I a fan of the stories that explained it, I really did end up liking ninja Psylocke. She's a telepathic ninja, that should be ,like, the most basic of super heroes, but, more than that, she eventually did grow a lot as a character because of it. and, in the final analysis, it's a super hero comic, I don't care how far fetched it is if the characters actually grow.

#25 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

@Tazirai said:

@dangallant984 said:

@NightHaunter said:

I don't have many fond memories of this event. It kind of brought an end to my favourite X-Men period.

Agreed that original Psylocke was awesome though!

totally get this. I've often thought that the loss of Kitty, Rachel and the Nightcrawler signaled the end of the classic age. I mean, I loved those old Excaliber issues, but the X-men proper would take years to recover after this.

One of the things I'd always wanted was for Psylocke to leave the X-men and join Exaclibur with her brother.

Instead of getting all hard and gritty, she could have replaced Rachel, who would go back to the main team. It would really have been like a family book. Brother, Sister, Sister in Law, and Kitty and Nightcrawler.

Excalibur had a sense of fun and adventure, that Psylocke would have fit right in with, WITHOUT having to become some silly action junkie ninja girl.

I totally had that same fantasy, back in the day. but, in the long run, I'm kinda glad it didn't work out that way. Firstly, because it was reading Rachel in Excaliber that made me really like her, but also, as much as I don't think Psylocke needed the ninja treatment to be a cool character, nor was I a fan of the stories that explained it, I really did end up liking ninja Psylocke. She's a telepathic ninja, that should be ,like, the most basic of super heroes, but, more than that, she eventually did grow a lot as a character because of it. and, in the final analysis, it's a super hero comic, I don't care how far fetched it is if the characters actually grow.

It would have been interesting to see that come to play.

#26 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides: Actually I like her both ways but in the end, from a writers point of view I think they must have thought she was too weak and needed a break through point in her character. After all that slaymaster thing was freaking brutal. I would not want to see that a second time with her. But you know I personally liked the Cypher X Psylocke angle that claremont was developing around New Mutants Annual 2 / X-Men Annual 10. I thought it was interesting that two of the (honestly) weakest characters found comfort in each other, and it was better than watching Piotr go coo-coo for Tsaji's cocoa puffs. That was a relationship flub...

#27 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3453 posts) - - Show Bio

@chasereis said:

@PhoenixoftheTides: Actually I like her both ways but in the end, from a writers point of view I think they must have thought she was too weak and needed a break through point in her character. After all that slaymaster thing was freaking brutal. I would not want to see that a second time with her. But you know I personally liked the Cypher X Psylocke angle that claremont was developing around New Mutants Annual 2 / X-Men Annual 10. I thought it was interesting that two of the (honestly) weakest characters found comfort in each other, and it was better than watching Piotr go coo-coo for Tsaji's cocoa puffs. That was a relationship flub...

My main problem is how Marvel tends to frame a character as 'weak' because they don't specialize in combat training. I am not sure why Marvel had Slay Master gouge out her eyes, but it did show the darkening of the Marvel Universe and how damaging this can be to your characters. But, still, Professor X managed just fine with just his telepathy and it weakened Psylocke's character to make her a ninja considering the training she received from Wolverine. Jim Lee basically admitted he was bored of the character and wanted a Japanese ninja on the team, with no concern for the character. To make matters worse, if you want to be technical, she had a better track record in general when she only had her telepathy than she did as a ninja - Sabretooth comes to mind.

#28 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides: Well said Phoenix. Psylocke had excellent potential from the start to be certain. Although, personally, I feel that even before Jim made the change Marc was not happy with her, hence the battle armor, remember that train wreck? I would have loved to see a long term writer commit to the X-men to fix all the interim writer issues that have piled up since Clairmont left the first time. for the record I consider a long term commitment to be a writing for at a minimum 15 years over one book. 180 books to freedom...lol.

And I dont know if you ever really read any of the Marvel UK titles that were produced at the time but in comparison to UK books, the US were like reading disney books. I loved the prime of career talent back then but damn that was some dark superhero shite.

#29 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3453 posts) - - Show Bio

@chasereis: I don't put costume changes in the same category as retooling major aspects of characters. That said, though, I did like her armor costume change but I honestly liked both costumes.

I didn't know about the UK books. Still, gouging someones' eyes out in a comic book seems unnecessarily brutal. What other UK books were that dark?

#30 Posted by cattlebattle (12598 posts) - - Show Bio
@PhoenixoftheTides said:


. I am not sure why Marvel had Slay Master gouge out her eyes,


Marvel didn't. Claremont had some long term story to play out with this but I don't think it ever came to fruition, I know they had the deal with the robotic eyes broadcasting for Mojo, but I am unsure if it was his original idea
 
@PhoenixoftheTides said:


 But, still, Professor X managed just fine with just his telepathy and it weakened Psylocke's character to make her a ninja considering the training she received from Wolverine. Jim Lee basically admitted he was bored of the character and wanted a Japanese ninja on the team, with no concern for the character.

Professor X gets along fine with his Telepathy because he is absurdly powerful, Betsy was never that powerful and I don't know where you heard that last part, but it was Claremonts decision to make Betsy a ninja.....likely due to the popularity of Ninjas and Elektra at the time, seeing as Psylocke looks physically just like Elektra in different colors. Jim Lee did assume control of the X-bboks but he just started when the Lady Mandarin story started. I think Claremont too many telepaths running around at the time and wanted to give Betsy something a little different
 
@PhoenixoftheTides said:

To make matters worse, if you want to be technical, she had a better track record in general when she only had her telepathy than she did as a ninja - Sabretooth comes to mind.


No way...to be honest Sabretooth isn't that impressive, I should also note that Claremont wanted the Mutant Massacre Sabretooth to be a clone of the original, hence, why he gets defeated so easily by Logan later on....he was actually intended to be weak...but once again, that story never was never finished (Sabretooths). Psylockes battles with Shadow King are way more imressive.
#31 Posted by NightHaunter (111 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

To make matters worse, if you want to be technical, she had a better track record in general when she only had her telepathy than she did as a ninja - Sabretooth comes to mind.

No way...to be honest Sabretooth isn't that impressive, I should also note that Claremont wanted the Mutant Massacre Sabretooth to be a clone of the original, hence, why he gets defeated so easily by Logan later on....he was actually intended to be weak...but once again, that story never was never finished (Sabretooths). Psylockes battles with Shadow King are way more imressive.

She also kicked a lot of butt in the period when the X-men re-united, after the Muir Island Saga.

#32 Posted by cattlebattle (12598 posts) - - Show Bio
@NightHaunter said:

@cattlebattle said:


She also kicked a lot of butt in the period when the X-men re-united, after the Muir Island Saga.

She has been way more impressive than British Betsy ever was...I can't say she was really developed in the early nineties though. That wouldn't come to a lot later on.
#33 Posted by NightHaunter (111 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

@NightHaunter said:

@cattlebattle said:

She also kicked a lot of butt in the period when the X-men re-united, after the Muir Island Saga.

She has been way more impressive than British Betsy ever was...I can't say she was really developed in the early nineties though. That wouldn't come to a lot later on.

There was that arc where there was two Betsy's which had some development, although I had no idea what was going for most of it myself. Right before that though in the Magneto and Omega Red arcs, team would be up the creek without her.

#34 Posted by cattlebattle (12598 posts) - - Show Bio
@NightHaunter said:


There was that arc where there was two Betsy's which had some development, although I had no idea what was going for most of it myself. Right before that though in the Magneto and Omega Red arcs, team would be up the creek without her.

True, the Kwannon arc shed a little light on her, but that was it for a while until she wound up dating Warren.
#35 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides: I don't know when I read it since it is mentioned often it just feels like augmentation to me, kind of like Iceman's inhibitor belt during the same time period. Sounds silly but I kind of liked that first x-men costume...

#36 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: Im not following the "marvel didn't" part. Mike Collins (marvel UK) and Alan Davis were the team that had betsy's eyes gouged out in Captain Britian 12 ('85), clairmont had nothing to do with it. Chris was just continuing the storyline becuase marvel wanted to reprint the series in TPB form and cash in. And Jim did indeed favor her greatly for whatever reason and it is not a stretch of my imagination that he would push that, actually if you want to be REALLY technical he started that stupid Scott cheating on Jean crap with Betsy no less. Jim's plot ideas are too wild sometimes.

#37 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@chasereis said:

@PhoenixoftheTides: Actually I like her both ways but in the end, from a writers point of view I think they must have thought she was too weak and needed a break through point in her character. After all that slaymaster thing was freaking brutal. I would not want to see that a second time with her. But you know I personally liked the Cypher X Psylocke angle that claremont was developing around New Mutants Annual 2 / X-Men Annual 10. I thought it was interesting that two of the (honestly) weakest characters found comfort in each other, and it was better than watching Piotr go coo-coo for Tsaji's cocoa puffs. That was a relationship flub...

My main problem is how Marvel tends to frame a character as 'weak' because they don't specialize in combat training. I am not sure why Marvel had Slay Master gouge out her eyes, but it did show the darkening of the Marvel Universe and how damaging this can be to your characters. But, still, Professor X managed just fine with just his telepathy and it weakened Psylocke's character to make her a ninja considering the training she received from Wolverine. Jim Lee basically admitted he was bored of the character and wanted a Japanese ninja on the team, with no concern for the character. To make matters worse, if you want to be technical, she had a better track record in general when she only had her telepathy than she did as a ninja - Sabretooth comes to mind.

I agree that Marvel needs to have less ninja-like characters in their stories and try to focus on characters that don't have much martial arts training, but can still fight in battles. Like you mentioned, Professor Xavier did just fine with only his telepathy and he is considered one of the most powerful telepaths in the X-Men universe.

#38 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7266 posts) - - Show Bio

In retrospect, this scene was quite hilarious. Jean always was a Trojan home-wrecker.

How i miss the good ole' melodramatic X-Comics.

Online
#39 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5772 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

In retrospect, this scene was quite hilarious. Jean always was a Trojan home-wrecker.

How i miss the good ole' melodramatic X-Comics.

Yeah, at least the melodramatic X-Men comics during that time made more sense than the ones now.

#40 Posted by Tazirai (119 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

@NightHaunter said:

@cattlebattle said:

She also kicked a lot of butt in the period when the X-men re-united, after the Muir Island Saga.

She has been way more impressive than British Betsy ever was...I can't say she was really developed in the early nineties though. That wouldn't come to a lot later on.

I disagree here. She was far Less impressive at the start of her ninja career after they left Hong Kong. Even in Hong Kong, she got whupped by a Random Merc, who was never seen again, like ever. During the 90's what made her "impressive" were the posing and the costume, and the NINJAZ IS KOOL, thing! If you Objectively look at what she accomplished in the British body, instead of tossing it under the bus, she was VERY impressive. She took on 4 Freedom Force members at once. EACH with their own powers and skills, it took a 5th to take her down. So out of 8 Freedom Force members, "Weak" Psylocke took on 5 solo. Her field communications were instrumental in winning many of the battles, her ability at illusion and Psychoblasting gave her a definite leg up. She beat Sabretooth in One panel with her Psychoblast. Stabby locke failed and got gutted, and yes her Psychoblast would have affected him since it works physically and mentally. During Inferno, she took out two of the more powerful Mauraders solo, and they weren't seen again for the rest of that arc. She shut down Jeans powers, Shut down Mr. Sinister, who was much more powerful than her for a time. Girl was capable.

Eurasian Psylocke got good when she was written well by Chris during the revolution era, and her costume.. outside of the Bandana was aces. When Extreme first started, I loved her, except when she totally jobbed to Vargus, off screen at that. After she came back.. with YET another power change.. I gave it a go, and she was pretty well done. Had enough of that British B*tch in her and it worked, specially poppin off at Emma. Then Claremont went nuts and stuck her with Exiles. Once she came back, Fraction didn't know what to do with her. Then Yost, Carey, and Remender got her. Her sheer awesomeness finally started showing again to me. She's at the peak of her career right now, I hope under Woods and Humphries it continues, Anka's costume helps with taking her seriously.

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