Out of all the X-Men writers, who do you hate the most.

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#1 Edited by time (5004 posts) - - Show Bio

Out of all the X-Men writers, past & present, who do you hate the most.

Although I feel Matt Fraction, Jason Aaron and Kieran Gillain are really terrible writers. The writer I hate the most is Grant Morrison for his New X-Men series.

I think the series is very over-rated and I think the only character he wrote very well was Emma Frost. He show no real respect towards Cyclops or Jean Grey. He had no respect for there Marriage. It's like he ignore there history and he ignore all the work the other writers put into there Marriage and he destroy there Marriage. He also show no justice to Jean Grey character. The worst thing I saw him do was in 'Here comes Tomorrow', when he made Jean Grey give Cyclops the nudge to accept Emma Frost offer and by doing this .We had Cyclop kissing Emma on Jean Grey Grave. It's very distasteful and very disrespectful, that's what Grant Morrison all about.

I also thought his writing was naive and arrogant.

How about you guys, Which writer do you hate the most.

#2 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

See, time, this is why no one takes you seriously. Well, one of the reasons.

Bendis, Gillen, Aaron; the triumvirate of awful.

#3 Posted by time (5004 posts) - - Show Bio

See, time, this is why no one takes you seriously. Well, one of the reasons.

Bendis, Gillen, Aaron; the triumvirate of awful.

I don't mind Bendis. The issues I have with Grant Morrison, is he was naive and arrogant and he was disrespectful and he show that in his writing.

An that's your opinion.

What writer do you hate the most.

#4 Posted by Xwraith (18187 posts) - - Show Bio

Bendis, Gillen, Aaron; the triumvirate of awful.

You forgot Chuck Austen.

#5 Edited by time (5004 posts) - - Show Bio

@xwraith said:

@fadetoblackbolt said:

Bendis, Gillen, Aaron; the triumvirate of awful.

You forgot Chuck Austen.

Do you hate chuck Austen the most then.

#6 Posted by Xwraith (18187 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

@xwraith said:

@fadetoblackbolt said:

Bendis, Gillen, Aaron; the triumvirate of awful.

You forgot Chuck Austen.

Do you hate chuck Austen the most then.

Yes I do.

#7 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

@fadetoblackbolt said:

See, time, this is why no one takes you seriously. Well, one of the reasons.

Bendis, Gillen, Aaron; the triumvirate of awful.

I don't mind Bendis. The issues I have with Grant Morrison, is he was naive and arrogant and he was disrespectful and he show that in his writing.

An that's your opinion.

What writer do you hate the most.

You know what else he showed? Intelligence and an understanding of the franchise and concepts involved that have been overlooked by every writer since the X-Men's inception.

The reason people don't like Morrison's work is because it's about mutants, when the Claremont fans have been reading Fantastic Four stories their whole lives.

#8 Edited by time (5004 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt said:

@time said:

@fadetoblackbolt said:

See, time, this is why no one takes you seriously. Well, one of the reasons.

Bendis, Gillen, Aaron; the triumvirate of awful.

I don't mind Bendis. The issues I have with Grant Morrison, is he was naive and arrogant and he was disrespectful and he show that in his writing.

An that's your opinion.

What writer do you hate the most.

You know what else he showed? Intelligence and an understanding of the franchise and concepts involved that have been overlooked by every writer since the X-Men's inception.

The reason people don't like Morrison's work is because it's about mutants, when the Claremont fans have been reading Fantastic Four stories their whole lives.

He show also disrespect towards Jean and Cyclops character. He no understanding of there Marriage at all and he ignore all the other writers work in the past on there Marriage.

Just have to see it in his writing

The Physic affair that made no sense and it was very force.

After Jean humiliated Emma Frost, none of the X-Men showed any concern towards Jean Grey. Both Wolverine and Beast check up on Emma, not Jean. Which is strange,cause they care about more about Jean, then Emma. Then Wolverine check on Cyclops.

Then Cyclops and Jean share no feelings or thoughts throughout the whole series, which is something they usually do, throughout history of X-Men comics. When Jean Grey discovers truth and confronted them, did they have any contact afterwards, it was only till her death. Did they speak

There there was Here comes tomorrow, apparently there would be no future for X-Men or mutants without Cyclops. What a load of rubbish

You know what I could go on. .

#9 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@time said:

@fadetoblackbolt said:

@time said:

@fadetoblackbolt said:

See, time, this is why no one takes you seriously. Well, one of the reasons.

Bendis, Gillen, Aaron; the triumvirate of awful.

I don't mind Bendis. The issues I have with Grant Morrison, is he was naive and arrogant and he was disrespectful and he show that in his writing.

An that's your opinion.

What writer do you hate the most.

You know what else he showed? Intelligence and an understanding of the franchise and concepts involved that have been overlooked by every writer since the X-Men's inception.

The reason people don't like Morrison's work is because it's about mutants, when the Claremont fans have been reading Fantastic Four stories their whole lives.

He show also disrespect towards Jean and Cyclops character. He no understanding of there Marriage at all and he ignore all the other writers work in the past on there Marriage.

Just have to see it in his writing

The Physic affair that made no sense and it was very force.

After Jean humiliated Emma Frost, none of the X-Men showed any concern towards Jean Grey. Both Wolverine and Beast check up on Emma, not Jean. Which is strange,cause they care about more about Jean, then Emma. Then Wolverine check on Cyclops.

Then Cyclops and Jean share no feelings or thoughts throughout the whole series, which is something they usually do, throughout history of X-Men comics. When Jean Grey discovers truth and confronted them, did they have any contact afterwards, it was only till her death. Did they speak

There there was Here comes tomorrow, apparently there would be no future for X-Men or mutants without Cyclops. What a load of rubbish

You know what I could go on. .

You could go on, you'd keep talking nonsense, but I have no doubt you could continue.

Jean and Scott's marriage was always a sham. She wanted a little boy she could keep in her pocket who would always be there for her to lean on, while she went around and did whatever she felt like. She didn't love Scott Summers, she loved the idea of him loving her no matter what. Then she's surprised by her husband pulling away after he goes through an existential and emotional crises like having his mind-raped by Apocalypse. Then he's coerced into sex by his therapist, which people say is a "psychic affair" which amounts to "masturbating over someone who's thinking about you" and means freaking nothing. "Oh Jean, was a telepath, it means more to her." Most idiotic statement said regarding the whole thing. They checked up on Emma because she was just, you know, savagely assaulted by Jean because she had the audacity to fall in love with Jean's estranged husband, meanwhile, Jean's throwing her crotch at Wolverine every time he sniffs around, which is often. Then Cyclops left, because he wasn't sure what was going on his own head, and he ran away. Then Jean made out with Logan, died and came back. because that's all her character ever does. Then she died for good. It was awesome.

You know why there's no X-Men without Scott Summers? Because he is the X-Men. You take away him and you diminish the franchise. It's like having the Fantastic Four without Sue Storm and Mister Fantastic (oh wait, they did that, it sucked). Why do modern X-men comics suck? Because Cyclops is written completely out of character, and the house of cards falls down along with him.

#10 Posted by Saren (25674 posts) - - Show Bio

Lel, Morrison's "disrespectful"? Chuck Austen flipping crucified mutants on the lawns of the Westchester estate and he doesn't get so much as a mention next to Morrison's hideous crime of moving Cyclops out of a dead-end relationship?

Moderator
#11 Edited by time (5004 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt said:

@time said:

@fadetoblackbolt said:

@time said:

@fadetoblackbolt said:

See, time, this is why no one takes you seriously. Well, one of the reasons.

Bendis, Gillen, Aaron; the triumvirate of awful.

I don't mind Bendis. The issues I have with Grant Morrison, is he was naive and arrogant and he was disrespectful and he show that in his writing.

An that's your opinion.

What writer do you hate the most.

You know what else he showed? Intelligence and an understanding of the franchise and concepts involved that have been overlooked by every writer since the X-Men's inception.

The reason people don't like Morrison's work is because it's about mutants, when the Claremont fans have been reading Fantastic Four stories their whole lives.

He show also disrespect towards Jean and Cyclops character. He no understanding of there Marriage at all and he ignore all the other writers work in the past on there Marriage.

Just have to see it in his writing

The Physic affair that made no sense and it was very force.

After Jean humiliated Emma Frost, none of the X-Men showed any concern towards Jean Grey. Both Wolverine and Beast check up on Emma, not Jean. Which is strange,cause they care about more about Jean, then Emma. Then Wolverine check on Cyclops.

Then Cyclops and Jean share no feelings or thoughts throughout the whole series, which is something they usually do, throughout history of X-Men comics. When Jean Grey discovers truth and confronted them, did they have any contact afterwards, it was only till her death. Did they speak

There there was Here comes tomorrow, apparently there would be no future for X-Men or mutants without Cyclops. What a load of rubbish

You know what I could go on. .

You could go on, you'd keep talking nonsense, but I have no doubt you could continue.

Jean and Scott's marriage was always a sham. She wanted a little boy she could keep in her pocket who would always be there for her to lean on, while she went around and did whatever she felt like. She didn't love Scott Summers, she loved the idea of him loving her no matter what. Then she's surprised by her husband pulling away after he goes through an existential and emotional crises like having his mind-raped by Apocalypse. Then he's coerced into sex by his therapist, which people say is a "psychic affair" which amounts to "masturbating over someone who's thinking about you" and means freaking nothing. "Oh Jean, was a telepath, it means more to her." Most idiotic statement said regarding the whole thing. They checked up on Emma because she was just, you know, savagely assaulted by Jean because she had the audacity to fall in love with Jean's estranged husband, meanwhile, Jean's throwing her crotch at Wolverine every time he sniffs around, which is often. Then Cyclops left, because he wasn't sure what was going on his own head, and he ran away. Then Jean made out with Logan, died and came back. because that's all her character ever does. Then she died for good. It was awesome.

You know why there's no X-Men without Scott Summers? Because he is the X-Men. You take away him and you diminish the franchise. It's like having the Fantastic Four without Sue Storm and Mister Fantastic (oh wait, they did that, it sucked). Why do modern X-men comics suck? Because Cyclops is written completely out of character, and the house of cards falls down along with him.

You could go on, you'd keep talking nonsense, but I have no doubt you could continue.

If anyone is talking nonsense, it’s you and you sound like obsessed Cyclops Fan

Jean and Scott's marriage was always a sham. She wanted a little boy she could keep in her pocket who would always be there for her to lean on, while she went around and did whatever she felt like. She didn't love Scott Summers, she loved the idea of him loving her no matter what. Then she's surprised by her husband pulling away after he goes through an existential and emotional crises like having his mind-raped by Apocalypse.

Can I ask where do you get this nonsense from. You do actually realise it was Jean grey who wanted Cyclops to open up and share his feelings with her. Infact for years, Jean wanted Cyclops let loose and he didn’t cause he was so uptight. I also like to point out if wasn’t for Jean Grey, Cyclops would still be merge with Apocalypse. He is alive, cause of her.

They checked up on Emma because she was just, you know, savagely assaulted by Jean because she had the audacity to fall in love with Jean's estranged husband.

You don’t think Jean Grey was hurt to see Cyclops with Emma, seeing Emma dress in her Pheonix costumes, no cause Cyclops has never hurted Jean Grey before. You need to grow up a bit. Cyclops left, cause he was coward and didn’t think he was doing anything wrong, when he clearly was. He also was angry too. He wasn't the only one.

Then Jean made out with Logan, died and came back. because that's all her character ever does. Then she died for good. It was awesome.

Wrong, Jean was space with Logan, then she return and she was killed by Xorn, then she was in the future changing the past. Making sure Cyclops could be happy and what does Cyclops do, on yeah make out with Emma on Jean Grave.

Jean only went to Logan before, cause Cyclops wasn’t being a good husband and that’s was before she found about Cyclops and Emma.

You know why there's no X-Men without Scott Summers? Because he is the X-Men. I’m sorry who X-Men most popular character, who is X-Men cash cow, on yeah Wolverine. The comics have been center around Cyclops, Emma & Wolverine for the past 6 years, Which is why X-Men franshise has downhill.

You just have to look at the state of the X-Men franchise to see that.

The Mutant race become endanger species.

The X-Men going to war with the Avengers

The X-Men be divided

Why is that, on yeah cause comics have been center around Cyclops and Wolverine. Which has been the worst thing for X-Men comics.

#12 Posted by Guardian_of_Gravity (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

You're declaring Morrison's run the worst thing ever...

Because of a ship that wasn't particularly good to begin with getting sunk?

Are you high?

#13 Edited by time (5004 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity said:

You're declaring Morrison's run the worst thing ever...

Because of a ship that wasn't particularly good to begin with getting sunk?

Are you high?

I didn't say he has worst run, I just don't like him or his series. He writing was naive, arrogant and disrespectful.

With the ship, getting suck are u refering that to Cyclops and Jean Grey Marriage, what are you basing that on, Morrison disrespectful writing.

#14 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@time: Yeah, he's alive because of her... they're superheroes, they're all alive because of each other. That's a completely pointless argument.

And I said that he ran away, see time, your problem is that you see the pretty pictures and get a few of the words together and think you understand what's going on. Then you make the same ridiculous threads over and over and never quite grasp that what you're spouting is completely idiotic.

Jean wanted Cyclops to open up, but he couldn't because she wouldn't accept it. She'd held him back his entire life, forcing him to define his life by hers. Emma let his be his own person. That's why Jean, after getting a moment of clarity, pushed Scott to be with Emma, because being with Jean was a redundancy that prevented growth. LIKE JEAN IS AS A CHARACTER. Of course, this is eloquent deconstruction and metaphor, so it's waaaaaaaaaay beyond anything else the X-Men have seen. Cyclops is a terrible husband, no one denies that, but Jean Grey fans fail to see her as the story-cancer she is, because that implies she's something other than the perfect Mary Sue.

Wolverine being the cashcow of the X-Men means exactly nothing. Characters like Logan, Storm, modern Rogue, Jean, modern Iceman, are the reason that the X-Men is a dying franchise, because they're not mutants, they're supermodels with powers. Logan actually is a "normal" guy in terms of physical appearance, but gets unfortunate writer bias causing him to be some kind of casanova despite being a completely repugnant human being. Cigar and alcohol smell delightful, apparently. The X-Men is about different people who are openly discriminated against. Cyclops is a person that would have had a great normal human life, only he was born a mutant, and thus a danger to everyone around him. He's exactly what the X-Men are about. As was Morrison's run.

You don't get it because you're not capable. Comments like this show it, what kind of an idiot would say "Jean Grey was hurt too" AFTER SHE JUST MINDRAPED SOMEONE.

They checked up on Emma because she was just, you know, savagely assaulted by Jean because she had the audacity to fall in love with Jean's estranged husband.

You don’t think Jean Grey was hurt to see Cyclops with Emma, seeing Emma dress in her Pheonix costumes, no cause Cyclops has never hurted Jean Grey before. You need to grow up a bit. Cyclops left, cause he was coward and didn’t think he was doing anything wrong, when he clearly was. He also was angry too. He wasn't the only one.

#15 Posted by Guardian_of_Gravity (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@time: I...

@fadetoblackbolt: Should I give him the long or short explanation on what shipping is and why I think he's really just butthurt over his one true pairing going down like the titanic?

#16 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: ....time's a guy? O_o

He/she doesn't ship Scott and Jean though, just Jean and being right.

#17 Edited by Guardian_of_Gravity (2979 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: Given the gender ratios of the vine I'd say that it's safe to assume it's in possession of a penis.

But the whole rant just reeks of butthurt shipper.

#18 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5599 posts) - - Show Bio

People sure love Morrison on this site. Almost to the point of obsession.

#19 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardiandevil83: When someone is worth admiring in the current state of the industry, it's best to admire them fervently.

#20 Edited by time (5004 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt said:

@time: Yeah, he's alive because of her... they're superheroes, they're all alive because of each other. That's a completely pointless argument.

And I said that he ran away, see time, your problem is that you see the pretty pictures and get a few of the words together and think you understand what's going on. Then you make the same ridiculous threads over and over and never quite grasp that what you're spouting is completely idiotic.

Jean wanted Cyclops to open up, but he couldn't because she wouldn't accept it. She'd held him back his entire life, forcing him to define his life by hers. Emma let his be his own person. That's why Jean, after getting a moment of clarity, pushed Scott to be with Emma, because being with Jean was a redundancy that prevented growth. LIKE JEAN IS AS A CHARACTER. Of course, this is eloquent deconstruction and metaphor, so it's waaaaaaaaaay beyond anything else the X-Men have seen. Cyclops is a terrible husband, no one denies that, but Jean Grey fans fail to see her as the story-cancer she is, because that implies she's something other than the perfect Mary Sue.

Wolverine being the cashcow of the X-Men means exactly nothing. Characters like Logan, Storm, modern Rogue, Jean, modern Iceman, are the reason that the X-Men is a dying franchise, because they're not mutants, they're supermodels with powers. Logan actually is a mutant in terms of physical appearance, but gets unfortunate writer bias causing him to be some kind of casanova despite being a completely repugnant human being. The X-Men is about different people who are openly discriminated against. Cyclops is a person that would have had a great normal human life, only he was born a mutant, and thus a danger to everyone around him. He's exactly what the X-Men are about. As was Morrison's run.

You don't get it because you're not capable. Comments like this show it, what kind of an idiot would say "Jean Grey was hurt too" AFTER SHE JUST MINDRAPED SOMEONE.

They checked up on Emma because she was just, you know, savagely assaulted by Jean because she had the audacity to fall in love with Jean's estranged husband.

You don’t think Jean Grey was hurt to see Cyclops with Emma, seeing Emma dress in her Pheonix costumes, no cause Cyclops has never hurted Jean Grey before. You need to grow up a bit. Cyclops left, cause he was coward and didn’t think he was doing anything wrong, when he clearly was. He also was angry too. He wasn't the only one.

As mention as before you clearly Cyclops fan. I think a lot fans get this wrong when they think Emma has help Cyclops become a better man. People are giving Emma Frost too much credit. Cyclops became the leader of the X-Men, cause he wasn't challenge by anyone and no one was position to challenge him, cause Marvel destroy a lot of the X-Men characters . They go rid of Jean, ruined Charles, turn Magneto in to Cyclops little lap-dog, made Storm irrelevant and had Emma Frost lived in Cyclops shadow. Infact the only person who challenge Cyclops, was Wolverine and we all know why. The only think Emma did was lived in his shadows and let him take charge and as result she paid the price for it , cause Marvel haven't done much with her character. Is Cyclops is better man, all I see is mutant who is public enemy number one. Cyclops has become arrogant jerk, who believes he is the only one in the right.

So Logan, Storm, modern Rogue, Jean, modern Iceman, are the reason that the X-Men is a dying franchise, that's just funny. Have you red the comics over the last couple years. You do know they have sucked, cause they been center around Cyclops.

You speak nonsense anyway. You made my day.

#21 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@time: They suck because the writers are incompetent imbeciles who don't know how to write a single character. The only one worth reading was X-Factor, and that's because it existed (almost) entirely on its own.

Cyclops has got it far worse than any character you mentioned there. Point it out to me when they're pointlessly derailed into a stereotypical anti-villain and demonised by the in-canon community for being possessed.

There was another character who was possessed and actually committed genocide, but she was forgiven virtually instantly... Hmmm... who was that?

#22 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5599 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Edited by entropy_aegis (15319 posts) - - Show Bio

Facepalm.

#24 Posted by time (5004 posts) - - Show Bio

@time: They suck because the writers are incompetent imbeciles who don't know how to write a single character. The only one worth reading was X-Factor, and that's because it existed (almost) entirely on its own.

Cyclops has got it far worse than any character you mentioned there. Point it out to me when they're pointlessly derailed into a stereotypical anti-villain and demonised by the in-canon community for being possessed.

There was another character who was possessed and actually committed genocide, but she was forgiven virtually instantly... Hmmm... who was that?

That wasn't Jean grey, that was the Pheonix force.

They suck, cause they were center aroud Cyclops, Emma and Wolverine.

#25 Posted by TDK_1997 (14896 posts) - - Show Bio

Either Fraction or Gillen.Both of these writers just ruined a franchise and haven't done a single good story for the X-Men.

#26 Posted by Emequious_Swerve (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, I am convinced that most people in this thread haven't read too many X-Men comics....

oh, and Chuck Austen was a pretty horrid X-Men writer also Joe Casey.

#27 Edited by Silver_Raven (351 posts) - - Show Bio

So i don't hate Morrison. I can appreciate some of the changes he brought to the X-men but I think his ideas would have better served an animated series than being the "flagship" comic book of its time. In relation to the other x-books, how it messed with continuity and established events and then what it did to focus on just a select cast of characters left more bad than good. So i understand the hate and I am going to add my own reasons why he was such an arrogant writer, who was allowed free reign to do whatever he wanted without any consequence and then ruined the mutant community just to make a name for himself.

-He came on to the X-men, and only focused on 6 X-men and ignored everyone else on the team, and turned their relationships into that of coworkers rather than a family

-he had no real diversity on his team, treated the two women on the team as rivals, reinforced the idea of women as either the saint or the sinner, and the one Chinese mutant that he introduced turned out to be Magneto in disguise

-He ruined the relationship of Jean and Scott instead of helping them evolve from the events before his run, and then has him turn to the manipulative White Queen because we all know Morrison had hard on for her and Cyclops became his full in

-he over populated the world with mutants and then had his pet villain be the cause for millions of mutants dying on Genosha

-he destroyed Genosha and all the potential in the place, while ruining Magneto's story line that had him finally fulfill his purpose, and then he went all stereotypical bad guy at the end and is the reason why jean is dead

-he changed Beast into a blue-lion (which i liked) but gave no reason for it and then it was up to Chris Claremont to solve that mystery in his run over on X-treme X-men

-then he gives Emma a diamond form and gave no reason for it other than giving her a "secondary mutation" and because her wanted her to be indestructible

-he has Jean become the Phoenix all over again, only to kill her off once more but without any feeling and has her in the afterlife support Scott's quick decision to move on with Emma (it read like published fanfic rather than real good writing)

-also during this time the other X-book were referencing and relating to the events in New X-men but Morrison did reciprocate and just steam rolled over the X-men and left a lot of damage in the aftermath which a lot of the writers had to clean up and make sense of

-and of course the worst of which was having Marvel decide to decimate the mutant population that Morrison put in the many millions, which then brought us to House of M and my most hated writer Bendis

#28 Posted by RustyRoy (12717 posts) - - Show Bio

People sure love Morrison on this site. Almost to the point of obsession.

Why shouldn't we? He gave us one of the best runs on Batman, Superman, JLA, X-Men and many more characters.

#29 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

Hate none, but the worst of recent are: Bendis, Gillen and Aaron. Poisonous stuff.

#30 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

Contemplating where Humphries lies in all this, though. I mean he's certainly not good, at all, but he tries. So hard. It's cute :s

#31 Posted by Polarity (106 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll have to give some special attention to Fraction, who took the once vast and great x-verse and turned it into background wallpaper.

#32 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

MORRISON. total destruction.

#33 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

Obvs, the Morrison hate is unsubstantiated complaints for the sake of unsubstantiated complaining. Hopefully you're all just trying to jump on this "cool" or "trendy" band-wagon of contrarianism, otherwise i'll be forced to believe that comic-book fans really do want to promote stagnation and lack evolution. Because Morrison's run brought the latter, among a plethora of other beneficial things, in tenfold.

#34 Edited by HAWK2916 (1750 posts) - - Show Bio

Aaron is one of the worst. Bendis is pretty bad too though at times he can get it right and Austen was pretty bad all around.

#35 Posted by Backflip (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

Aaron is really, really awful.

What is with the Gillen hate? I thought his run on Uncanny X-Men was pretty fun and interesting, at least contrasting against Aaron.

#36 Edited by adamTRMM (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see any evolution in trying to build mutant society on weirdness of his newly introduced mutants and their behavior. See, when you have kids like Franklin Richards, normal looking and with potential to make Galactus his personal herald, I don's see any reason to go back and explain to me what mutation can do to people and how they'll create a community of strange people, I've already seen this. I want to see how gods among man take their right place in the society. Overpopulating the planet with mutant just to commit genocide of most of them. **** this is so irresponsible, and then he couldn't even handle how it'll affect mutants, and let me tell you a secret, genocide affects people, deeply. So why the hell doing this? To show us how badass of writer he is? Any writer kills mutants, nothing new. So he killed off 16 millions, at least make it feel like it was a ***king annihilation with a deep, very deep affection on all mutants as a race. I was talking about Morrison.

#37 Edited by Guardiandevil83 (5599 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: Nothing wrong with it at all. Just something I noticed

#38 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

So i don't hate Morrison. I can appreciate some of the changes he brought to the X-men but I think his ideas would have better served an animated series than being the "flagship" comic book of its time. In relation to the other x-books, how it messed with continuity and established events and then what it did to focus on just a select cast of characters left more bad than good. So i understand the hate and I am going to add my own reasons why he was such an arrogant writer, who was allowed free reign to do whatever he wanted without any consequence and then ruined the mutant community just to make a name for himself.

-He came on to the X-men, and only focused on 6 X-men and ignored everyone else on the team, and turned their relationships into that of coworkers rather than a family

-he had no real diversity on his team, treated the two women on the team as rivals, reinforced the idea of women as either the saint or the sinner, and the one Chinese mutant that he introduced turned out to be Magneto in disguise

-He ruined the relationship of Jean and Scott instead of helping them evolve from the events before his run, and then has him turn to the manipulative White Queen because we all know Morrison had hard on for her and Cyclops became his full in

-he over populated the world with mutants and then had his pet villain be the cause for millions of mutants dying on Genosha

-he destroyed Genosha and all the potential in the place, while ruining Magneto's story line that had him finally fulfill his purpose, and then he went all stereotypical bad guy at the end and is the reason why jean is dead

-he changed Beast into a blue-lion (which i liked) but gave no reason for it and then it was up to Chris Claremont to solve that mystery in his run over on X-treme X-men

-then he gives Emma a diamond form and gave no reason for it other than giving her a "secondary mutation" and because her wanted her to be indestructible

-he has Jean become the Phoenix all over again, only to kill her off once more but without any feeling and has her in the afterlife support Scott's quick decision to move on with Emma (it read like published fanfic rather than real good writing)

-also during this time the other X-book were referencing and relating to the events in New X-men but Morrison did reciprocate and just steam rolled over the X-men and left a lot of damage in the aftermath which a lot of the writers had to clean up and make sense of

-and of course the worst of which was having Marvel decide to decimate the mutant population that Morrison put in the many millions, which then brought us to House of M and my most hated writer Bendis

It's almost as though you tapped into my mind. There needs to be a highlighting function for posts because this brilliant dreakdown needs to be spotlighted for how spot-on it is.

I don't hate writers and I don't hate Morrison as clearly he has notable talent but the idea he can do no wrong is kinda funny. No, not kinda. It's really funny.

As for Bendis...he almost, ALMOST gets my vote. But ALIAS saves him. Just barely.

#39 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamtrmm said:

I don't see any evolution in trying to build mutant society on weirdness of his newly introduced mutants and their behavior. See, when you have kids like Franklin Richards, normal looking and with potential to make Galactus his personal herald, I don's see any reason to go back and explain to me what mutation can do to people and how they'll create a community of strange people, I've already seen this. I want to see how gods among man take their right place in the society. Overpopulating the planet with mutant just to commit genocide of most of them. **** this is so irresponsible, and then he couldn't even handle how it'll affect mutants, and let me tell you a secret, genocide affects people, deeply. So why the hell doing this? To show us how badass of writer he is? Any writer kills mutants, nothing new. So he killed off 16 millions, at least make it feel like it was a ***king annihilation with a deep, very deep affection on all mutants as a race. I was talking about Morrison.

Morrison's flagship beauty was called New X-Men, rightfully so, for a reason. Newly introduced mutants, concepts, subtext and explorations of what it means to be an actual mutant, X-Gene positive and all are a given. He went places where no other writer before and after him have ever had the balls to do. Obvs, different writers have their respective styles; some prefer the more high-octane decompressed action schmaction page after page with no real description, others prefer cerebral, character-driven and thought-provoking narratives, obvs you know what Morrison's is. but before him, honestly, the mutant threat and populace was never on such a vast scope. The "mutant problem" wasn't the big deal that so many non-mutant denizens of the Marvel universe made it out to be, and also, not everyone can be a "pretty" mutant. Morrison's run with its accretion of disfigured X-Gene positives perfectly portrayed and introduced us to a plethora of eye-catchers, you know, exploring the mutant culture, bringing in mutant themes, cause, you know, the X-Men are mutants and all. And i'm honestly not understanding the problem with the over-population aspect of things, were you expecting some sort of magical infertility epidemic to come sweeping in, specifically to mutants ? Humans have sexual intercourse, all the time, babies are born, all the time, just so happened that some of those babies in X-Verse at that time, were mutants. No problem here. It's just common sense, obviously that's not common.

Not to digress, but unsubstantiated complaints for the sake of unsubstantiated complaining doesn't solve anything. Your statements of disdain need to have a valid basis, or you're only going to make yourself look silly. He broadened the scope in terms of what could be done with the X-Men when things were becoming stagnant, he ushered in a new age of glory and set the absolute and set-in-stone standard for what the new Millenium of X-Comics should aspire to be, and, among other things, he removed the flimsy spandex and gave way for unity.

And he also wrote the definitive Jean-Grey-Summers.

#40 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio
@backflip said:

Aaron is really, really awful.

What is with the Gillen hate? I thought his run on Uncanny X-Men was pretty fun and interesting, at least contrasting against Aaron.

Gillen's run was boring af. Never understood the incessant praise that it received while it was still unfortunately being published. And a lot of things are pretty good contrasted to Aaron's WATXM.

#41 Posted by Daycrawler (554 posts) - - Show Bio

Contemplating where Humphries lies in all this, though. I mean he's certainly not good, at all, but he tries. So hard. It's cute :s

Humprhies is awful. Worst X book writer at the moment by a mile. At first I thought it was just me being too fussy after Remenders amazing run, but soon realized that, no, it's just plain bad. I've hung in for 10 meandering, plodding issues with characterization that's all over the place. The only reason I have the will to hang in there is cos I want to find out what's gonna happen with Bishop. Gah!

#42 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4566 posts) - - Show Bio

First off, there isn't anyone I hate for their ability or style of writing fiction; it just seems pointless. Yes, there have been mediocre and even bad X-men stories, written by almost every writer to ever work on the X-men, but I'm not about to hate someone just for writing a piece of fiction that doesn't interest me.

Anyway, this is my two cents on the polarizing work of Grant Morrison (who I do think is, more often than not, capable of being a good writer) on New X-Men:

I do think the bulk of his run, from New X-Men #114 - E is for Extinction Part One to #140-141 - Murder at the Mansion, really does deserve most of the praise it gets. It really took apart the main themes in a really original way that made the whole thing feel fresh and distinct from it's more superhero-y history, and brought it more into the realm of contemporary science fiction. Whether this made the book more or less definitive of the X-men is largely a matter of taste, but, at the very least, he did make one of the most original and distinct interpretations of the X-men ever. Which, in itself, I found both interesting and entertaining.

but then...

Assault on Weapon Plus wasn't a really great X-men story, but it was decent enough for a short, low-key arc about Wolverine and Cyclops doing something without the other X-men. Everything after that, from #146 - Planet X to #156 - A Bright New Mourning Part 2, or the last 10 issues, was just disappointing and generally deserves the ire that it gets. It's probably best to think of it as some meta parody of franchise rehashes, that just happens to be in cannon. Not that I really care what is or isn't in cannon, but it just didn't feel as inspired or interesting as the first part of the run. And the claim that that was intentional doesn't really change that for me. Throwing away the character development of Xorn to reveal that he was Magneto the whole time would have been easy enough to swallow, if he hadn't backslid Magneto's character development to the pathetic lunatic he was in the 70's. And I personally had no problem with him killing Jean Grey, but bringing back the Phoenix for the last two arcs just made them feel like rehashed, derivative fan fiction.

Basically, with the exception of some inconsistent art, the first 28 issues of Morrison's run were one the most distinct, innovative and interesting eras of X-men, regardless of whether or not they were anyone's personal favorite. Personally, I still consider it the definitive start of the contemporary era. After that, though, I'd just skip ahead to Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run, because you really won't be missing anything. Well Jean and Magneto die, but they've both done that in much better stories.

#43 Edited by Silver_Raven (351 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt said:

Jean and Scott's marriage was always a sham. She wanted a little boy she could keep in her pocket who would always be there for her to lean on, while she went around and did whatever she felt like. She didn't love Scott Summers, she loved the idea of him loving her no matter what. Then she's surprised by her husband pulling away after he goes through an existential and emotional crises like having his mind-raped by Apocalypse. Then he's coerced into sex by his therapist, which people say is a "psychic affair" which amounts to "masturbating over someone who's thinking about you" and means freaking nothing. "Oh Jean, was a telepath, it means more to her." Most idiotic statement said regarding the whole thing. They checked up on Emma because she was just, you know, savagely assaulted by Jean because she had the audacity to fall in love with Jean's estranged husband, meanwhile, Jean's throwing her crotch at Wolverine every time he sniffs around, which is often. Then Cyclops left, because he wasn't sure what was going on his own head, and he ran away. Then Jean made out with Logan, died and came back. because that's all her character ever does. Then she died for good. It was awesome.

You know why there's no X-Men without Scott Summers? Because he is the X-Men. You take away him and you diminish the franchise. It's like having the Fantastic Four without Sue Storm and Mister Fantastic (oh wait, they did that, it sucked). Why do modern X-men comics suck? Because Cyclops is written completely out of character, and the house of cards falls down along with him.

Cyclops fans are so visually impaired, just like their idol. He is not the X-men, he is just lucky he is white, male, and a founding member of the first team. That is a lot of privilege, so don't get that confused with actually meaning anything. He was a great character in the All New All Different X-men era but Uncanny X-men was at its best and most iconic when he wasn't even a part of the team, because he was in X-Factor. Get your facts right.

Also, where do you get off on blaming Jean for everything that had made Cyclops such dick. She is not Apocalypse. And if you look at her history in relation to Scott then she has suffered so much more being connected to him and having to be his prop. Which now seems to be Emma's role in the X-men. Jean was a great character that should have stayed dead, but Marvel brought her back and made her fulfill the role of the good girlfriend/wife to of the (undeserved) main character of the X-book in the 90s and after. What happened to Jean is another example of the Women in Refrigerator trend and most X-fans either love her or love to hate because she was such an iconic and powerful character, despite being a woman.

And you seem to forget that Emma wasn't the most innocent victim, when you remember she is partly responsible for the Phoenix going Dark in the first place. Emma's road to redemption and acceptance should not have been at the cost of Jean, which is what happened during New X-men and then afterwards as Emma took over as the lead X-female role in the books to follow, with Storm, Psylocke, Kitty and others pushed to the margins.

#44 Posted by spinningbirdcake (1430 posts) - - Show Bio

The topic question made me laugh. Out of all the X-Men writers, let's talk about who you hate. I don't know man, just seems like a conversation I would want to avoid not one I would want to have.

#45 Posted by Chapmar (192 posts) - - Show Bio

It's amazing, it really seems all over this X-Men board that unless you like Morrison's run you are not actually allowed to have an opinion and must be subject to abuse.

#46 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

@chapmar: Not really, but at the very least, your critiques most hold water to them--which applies to just about everything and every one else.

#47 Posted by Chapmar (192 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe the worst writer has been Fraction, his run was appalling and genuinely a struggle to get through.

#48 Edited by oldnightcrawler (4566 posts) - - Show Bio

@chapmar said:

I believe the worst writer has been Fraction, his run was appalling and genuinely a struggle to get through.

Fraction's run was one of my least favorite X-men runs, overall, but I don't think he's a bad writer. His Hawkeye series has been great.

I just found myself not being interested in the direction he took on X-men, but many good writers, if not all, end up writing at least some stories that just don't really work. Claremont, for example, wrote at least as many mediocre X-men comics as he did classics.

#49 Edited by Chapmar (192 posts) - - Show Bio

@chapmar said:

I believe the worst writer has been Fraction, his run was appalling and genuinely a struggle to get through.

Fraction's run was one of my least favorite X-men runs, overall, but I don't think he's a bad writer. His Hawkeye series has been great.

I just found myself not being interested in the direction he took on X-men, but many good writers, if not all, end up writing at least some stories that just don't really work. Claremont, for example, wrote at least as many mediocre X-men comics as he did classics.

Fraction is a brilliant writer, that's the worst thing. His Immortal Iron Fist run with Ed Brubaker is one of my all time favorite super hero stories, his defenders is great and even his Iron man is consistently good.

But his X-Men really, really, really sucked! His style is too wacky and out there for a title like the X-men. It tried to be too witty and kitsch all the time.

#50 Posted by oldnightcrawler (4566 posts) - - Show Bio

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