Mutant Offspring

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#1 Posted by DEADPOOL (2703 posts) - - Show Bio

Mutants originally had powers that were unique from other mutants in their family, but in the recent years an mutant's powers have become more and more intertwined with blood-ties. Do you guys think it makes sense, genetically, or do you think writers are getting lazy?

I'd hate for mutants to inherit their powers, because a child born of two mutants would be very powerful... maybe too powerful. Then what if that child has a child of it's own with another mutant?? 50 years down the line, we could have Apocalypses and Onslaughts walking around all over the place.


Post Edited:2007-04-12 21:07:35

#2 Posted by Walkingstone (10723 posts) - - Show Bio

Wouldn't a good example be Scarlet Witch with her two (sort of) sons. Wiccan has her magic and Speed has his uncle's velocity. Am I right in that line of thinking?

#3 Posted by Walkingstone (10723 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, they were, but the whole of Magneto's family share powers. Am I not right in thinking that Polaris shares his magnetism.

#4 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

The Guthrie family is like a zoo of mutants (not sure about post-decimation, but they were).Siryn is the only one I can think of with their parents' powers. Who else were you talking about?

I agree though, they should be random mutations independent of heritage.

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#5 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Totally forgot about that whole family. Do they really count though? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they made out of magic?

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#6 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Other than Polaris (another one I wasn't thinking of, what's wrong with me) the family doesn't really share similar powers.

On the other hand, the Grey/Summers family are all similar. Everyone has either energy powers or psychic powers, and some have both.

So Siryn, Polaris and the Summers' and everyone Deadpool named above. Anyone else?

Also AoA Magneto/Rogue and Magnus as well as Apocalypse's kid. And Aurora and Northstar.
Post Edited:2007-04-12 19:00:45

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#7 Posted by DEADPOOL (2703 posts) - - Show Bio

Xavier and his son David are both telepaths; Cable has his Jean's telekinesis and telepathy, and possibly Cyclops' optic blasts. Polaris has Magneto's magnetic powers; Puck and his daughter... Puck both have strength, speed, agility, and reflexes; Nightcrawler and his father Azazel both have teleportation (and a demonic appearance); Nocturne has Nightcrawler's agility and shadowmeld, along with Scarlet Witch's hex bolts (Nightcrawler and Scarlet Witch are her parents from another reality); and now Wolverine's son.

I could probably name off more, but I'm too lazy.


Post Edited:2007-04-12 19:09:57

#8 Posted by Darkchild (40624 posts) - - Show Bio

the concept of powers being able to be inheritaed pisses me off have thgem be fucked up or mega pwoerful on their own not fromtheir parents jsut think of scott an emma havekids oh my god were fucked

sry with the typing i have a wrist brace on

#9 Posted by Oluf_Von_Host_Museum (84677 posts) - - Show Bio

Lady Master Mind, isnt she the duaghter of the Hell Fire Club's Mastermind?

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#10 Posted by Liverwurst (881 posts) - - Show Bio

to answer the original question powers should be random

#11 Posted by Shatterstar (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

It'd be more interesting if they had human children like Graydon Creed. I think thats the only non-mutant offspring example I can think of. But yea I agree I think thats ridiculously lazy in most cases.

I have no idea how or when Apocalypse had a kid anyone wana fill me in on that one to me? Who's the mommy and were there makeout scenes?

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#12 Posted by Darkchild (40624 posts) - - Show Bio

wait hold it En Saba Neur had a kid damn wow hmm ok am i being gullable

#13 Posted by Sabretooth (77 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats an ugly mutha $#@!#@

#14 Posted by Sabretooth (77 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocolypse looks pretty cool I think. That thing looks like Dee Snyder and the chick from the White Snake video, ahd a baby and then peed on it.

#15 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

Shatterstar says:

"I have no idea how or when Apocalypse had a kid anyone wana fill me in on that one to me? Who's the mommy and were there makeout scenes? "

Look at that pic Buckshot put up. Roll with this idea. Can't Apocalypse pretty much change his body around to suit his purposes. Could he become a woman then?

If so, then this could be the father:

Look at the hair. Tell me Armageddon is not just a pink Apocalypse with David Haller's hair.

#16 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Armageddon

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#17 Posted by DEADPOOL (2703 posts) - - Show Bio

Shatterstar says:

"Buckshot says:
"Armageddon
" />http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/11000/10866/51392-armageddon_400.jpg"

He's adorable, orange sherbert apocalypse with a mohawk, who's the mommy? And did Nur have to wait for the invention of viagra after a few millenia to have a kid?"

I think Armageddon's really cool. Oh, and I guess he was cloned with Apocalypse's D.N.A. and Jean Grey's D.N.A.

#18 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugly is genetic.

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#19 Posted by Shatterstar (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

Prurience Man says:

"Shatterstar says:
"I have no idea how or when Apocalypse had a kid anyone wana fill me in on that one to me? Who's the mommy and were there makeout scenes? "

Look at that pic Buckshot put up. Roll with this idea. Can't Apocalypse pretty much change his body around to suit his purposes. Could he become a woman then?

If so, then this could be the father:

Look at the hair. Tell me Armageddon is not just a pink Apocalypse with David Haller's hair."

Actually if I remember right Apocalypse was a woman in the Adventures of Cyclops and Jean Grey series in the year 4000. Asexual reproduction is weird, I don't care what you say.

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#20 Posted by Shatterstar (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Armageddon
" />http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/11000/10866/51392-armageddon_400.jpg"

He's adorable, orange sherbert apocalypse with a mohawk, who's the mommy? And did Nur have to wait for the invention of viagra after a few millenia to have a kid?

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#21 Posted by Sabretooth (77 posts) - - Show Bio

I second that.

#22 Posted by Shatterstar (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

DEADPOOL says:

"Shatterstar says:
"Buckshot says:
"Armageddon
" />http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/11000/10866/51392-armageddon_400.jpg"

He's adorable, orange sherbert apocalypse with a mohawk, who's the mommy? And did Nur have to wait for the invention of viagra after a few millenia to have a kid?"

I think Armageddon's really cool. Oh, and I guess he was cloned with Apocalypse's D.N.A. and Jean Grey's D.N.A."

Wow her DNA gets around.

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#23 Posted by Sabretooth (77 posts) - - Show Bio

The whole marvel universe is related to Jean, and Scott. Does anybody remeber when Sabretooth was supposed to be Wolverine's dad? I always liked that idea, the whole being related.

#24 Posted by Sabretooth (77 posts) - - Show Bio

You notice theres no Vulcan.

#25 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

It's old.

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#26 Posted by Sabretooth (77 posts) - - Show Bio

Its still cool though. I've got an X-Men book that shows all the Summers relation on one side, and all the Grey relations on the other. It even has alternate realitys. Its old to, but it has possible third brother, I take it they meant Vulcan.

#27 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not that complicated.

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#28 Posted by Shatterstar (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

Cable/Deadpool life partners, hilarious. That web is ridiculous and could be worse if you threw all the offspring of Satan, Lilandra being related to D'Ken, etc. Wasn't Zaladane supposed to be related to Magneto too?

I totally forgot about the Sabretooth being Wolverine's dad thing.

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#29 Posted by Shatterstar (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

Sabretooth says:

"Its still cool though. I've got an X-Men book that shows all the Summers relation on one side, and all the Grey relations on the other. It even has alternate realitys. Its old to, but it has possible third brother, I take it they meant Vulcan."

Nicieza said he intended Adam-X to be the 3rd brother a decade ago, but he was the only writer that used the character at all.

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#30 Posted by Icoop (310 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, it was entertaining nonetheless.

And Scarlet Witch and Pietro not having Magneto's powers would be an example of Deadpool talking about "in the old days mutants had original powers".

Also I don't think its laziness so much as people wanting other personalities with similar powers. ei: a not insane male version of Scarlet Witch = Wiccan. A not male, sometimes not insane Magneto = Polaris. A radically insane Super Telepath Prof X= David.

and then theres Wolverine's offspring (and possibles):

insane younger Wolverine : whatever the dick they named his son.

hot teenage wolverine : x-23

Anyhoo. I'm not sure which I prefer, really, original powered offspring or similar powered, I do like the idea of originality, but I love Cable and Nightcrawler so I mean...:shrugs:

#31 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

He passed his some of his powers to a kid and then spread his energy over the world so a bad guy couldn't eat everyone.

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#32 Posted by Oluf_Von_Host_Museum (84677 posts) - - Show Bio

What ever happened to the X-Man Nate Grey?

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#33 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

I know Shatterstar already said it, but Cable & Deadpool as "lifepartners." That's the funniest thing I seen in days.

#34 Posted by DEADPOOL (2703 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambit was also once hinted to be the third Summers' brother.

Another writer, I forget who, said that he was going to have Apocalypse be the third summers' brother... and it made sense to me! He said something along the lines of:


What happened with Cyclops' mother after she was separated from Corsair? Apocalypse appears out of nowhere in the desert 5,000 years ago? What is Apocalypse's obsession with the Summers'? Why did Apocalypse want to take Stryfe's body? Why did Apocalypse want to take X-Man's body? When he couldn't, why did he take Cyclops' body? Why did Apocalypse infect Cable with the techno-organic virus when he could had just as easily killed him? Was he trying to make Cable stronger? Why was he trying to make Cable stronger?

However, he was taken off of the X-title before he could put his story into motion.

P.S. Vulcan sucks.


Post Edited:2007-04-13 00:02:23

#35 Posted by Buckshot (18915 posts) - - Show Bio

DEADPOOL says:

"P.S. Vulcan sucks."

Agreed.

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#36 Posted by Shatterstar (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

DEADPOOL says:

"Gambit was also once hinted to be the third Summers' brother.Another writer, I forget who, said that he was going to have Apocalypse be the third summers' brother... and it made sense to me! He said something along the lines of:
What happened with Cyclops' mother after she was separated from Corsair? Apocalypse appears out of nowhere in the desert 5,000 years ago? What is Apocalypse's obsession with the Summers'? Why did Apocalypse want to take Stryfe's body? Why did Apocalypse want to take X-Man's body? When he couldn't, why did he take Cyclops' body? Why did Apocalypse infect Cable with the techno-organic virus when he could had just as easily killed him? Was he trying to make Cable stronger? Why was he trying to make Cable stronger?However, he was taken off of the X-title before he could put his story into motion.P.S. Vulcan sucks.
Post Edited:2007-04-13 00:02:23"

Never thought of that one. I figured he infected Cable just to piss Sinister off, not knowing the Askani would show up to save him. Also figured he just wanted all those people as vessels b/c they were fit to survive. Also I'm pretty sure Cyclops' mom became a sort of sex slave of D'Ken's before he had her killed, according to Erik the Red they had Adam X. No I don't like that idea at all, Apocalypse being however many thousands of years old only makes it even more convoluted.

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#37 Posted by DEADPOOL (2703 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I like the idea of Adam-X, Gambit, and even Apocalypse as the third Summers' brother alot more than Vulcan.

Robert Weinberg, 2003. The Third Summers Brother

I merely want to share with long-time Cable and X-Men fans one of the theories I dreamt up to solve a dangling plot line involving the X-Men, the Summers family, and Cable in particular. It’s where I was headed when my four- year plan was terminated. You might not agree with the concept, so feel free to argue about it all you want in the forum that follows. In my not-so-humble opinion, it would have made a fun, though possibly quite controversial, addition to Cable’s convoluted history. As the title of this column proclaims, here is my solution to the identity of the third Summers brother.

If you’re a long time X-Men fan, you know the problem. Years ago, Mr. Sinister hinted that there might have been three, not two Summers brothers. (In X-Men #23, Sinister makes mention to Scott of “you and your brothers.”) We knew of two – Scott, the mutant called Cyclops; and Alex, the mutant known as Havok, who starred for several years in the original (non-TV show) Mutant X comic. Scott was always one of the most powerful X-Men and Havok, who shot bolts of plasma at his enemies, was equally deadly. Many readers felt that Sinister’s hint somehow referred to Gambit, whose childhood was shadowed in mystery and who seemed to owe Sinister a powerful debt. Since Sinister had run the orphanage where Scott grew up, he seemed like a strong candidate to further mess with the Summers DNA. Sinister always was quite clear that he felt the merging of the Jean Gray/Scott Summers genetic codes would produce a super-powerful mutant. And he was determined to find a way to make that happen.

If you read my run of Cable, you know that Jean’s mutant powers were due in part to her being a direct descendant of the Dark Mother, a centuries-old mutant whose DNA had been reshaped by the radiation of a strange meteor from space. She inherited much of her mutant power, which was later enhanced by her mental encounter with the Phoenix Force. It was during the time that everyone thought Jean was dead that Mr. Sinister managed to complete the Summers/Gray genetic jigsaw by having Scott marry Madelyne Pryor, Jean’s clone. Their child, a product of the Summers and Gray DNA lines, was Nathan Dayspring Summers, the young boy who would grow up to be Cable.

Now, we know the source of Jean (and Maddy’s) incredible mutant powers, the Dark Mother. What about Scott’s and Alex’s powers? Their father was Christopher Summers, who later became known as Corsair. He was not known to possess any mutant powers. Their mother, Katherine Summers, also had no mutant powers.

The Summers family was split apart when an aircraft being flown by Christopher crashed into a flying saucer from the Shi’ar empire. Scott and Alex parachuted to safety and thought their parents dead. The two boys were raised as orphans. Christopher was thrown into the Shi’ar slave pens (slave labor used by a galaxy-wide space empire? Pretty ridiculous). He later escaped and became one of the Starjammers. Katherine became a member of the harem of D’Ken, the mad Shi’ar emperor. One popular theory has Katherine giving birth to D’Ken’s son, who became known as Adam X, before she died in captivity.

The Adam X theory has never been officially confirmed and is based on stories never told and oddball coincidences. Jean Gray feels an emotional attachment to Adam X when she encounters him in Alaska. Since Adam X at best is the half-brother of her husband, raised on another planet, one wonders at the validity of Jean’s empathy.

While Katherine can’t be entirely dismissed as the source of the X-gene inherited by Scott and Alex, Marvel history suggests the source is more likely Christopher. The main evidence pointing at Christopher’s side of the family is that Mr. Sinister has been interested in the Summers’ DNA for more than a century. According to The Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, when Scott Summers and Jean Gray fought Mr. Sinister in the 19th century, an orphan named Daniel took the name Summers in admiration of the two time travelers. The Summers connection with Sinister’s first appearance is too much of a coincidence to be ignored. But, at the same time, with Daniel being an orphan who never knew his parents, the Summers genetic map comes to a dead-end. Or does it?

Like many others who have examined the Summers’ family tree, I believe there is a third Summers brother. One who fits perfectly into the jigsaw puzzle that makes up Cable’s life and times, and at the same time, solves many of the mysteries of the Marvel Universe.

I believe that before Christopher Summers married Katherine he had a love affair with another woman (not yet identified) in the Marvel Universe. She may or not have been a powerful mutant. I suspect she was. In any case, Christopher, an Air Force officer, left her before she discovered she was pregnant… and for reasons not known, she never informed him she was going to have his son. His first child.

Then, in typical Marvel melodramatic style, shortly after this nameless woman gave birth to this incredibly powerful mutant child, the boy was taken from her. Stolen by a mysterious figure from the far future, a being who used a time machine to complete his master plan. Not only did this time-traveler kidnap Christopher Summers’ first child, but the traveler then took the baby back into the past and left him there. The time traveler abandoned the baby, who knew neither his father nor mother, on the burning sands of Egypt with only a name. He was called The First One, because the baby was the First Summers’ child, and the most powerful. Or as he became known in the language of those who found him and raised him, En Sabah Nur, the mutant known as Apocalypse.

I’m not going to explain all the details of my theory, as that would take away the fun of debating the validity of my conclusion. But, I do want to present some evidence in defense of my claim.

His name? Surely no one reading Marvel Comics ever believed that Apocalypse was the first mutant? He may have been one of the first powerful mutants, but the first one? Never. Evolution is based on the theory of survival of the fittest. Modern man is the result of thousands of mutations over a hundred thousand years. Claiming someone in early Egyptian times was the first mutant is not only bad science, it’s just ridiculous.

If my theory is true, then Apocalypse would be Cable’s uncle. They would share the same DNA. Why did Apocalypse infect the baby Nathan Summers with the techno-organic virus? To kill him? Nonsense. If Apocalypse wanted to kill the baby, he would have just done so. Infecting his nephew forced Nathan to survive – to prove that even as a child he was strong enough to survive. And, in doing so, Apocalypse was also creating a powerful body, with tremendous mutant powers, for him to someday possess when his own body gave out. What better replacement for a body than one that shares the same basic DNA code?

Need more proof? Apocalypse woke from cryogenic sleep when Nathan was born. Telepathic cries being heard by a relative make a lot more sense than Apocalypse being jolted awake by the birth of a powerful mutant, considering how many powerful mutants inhabit the Marvel Universe. If that was really the case, Apocalypse would have been thawing out every few months in the mid-20th century.

Apocalypse, when first found, was supposedly an orphan, abandoned by his tribe. But we never once saw any evidence of this tribe or learned anything about his supposed family.

When the Twelve gathered, Apocalypse wanted to take over the body of X-Man, genetically identical to Cable. As mentioned before, what better host body than a DNA match? Still, while that didn’t happen, Apocalypse had little problem taking over the person who pushed X-Man out of the way – Scott Summers. In my theory, the First One’s brother. A man possessing matching DNA.

Moreover, since we know Apocalypse posed as a God more than once during his lifetime, it seems quite likely he may have fathered children. Who in turn had children, and so on, until one of his descendents could have been in London at the time of The Further Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix. So, it would be quite possible that the X-gene that developed in the Summers family came from Apocalypse, who inherited it from his own descendents, in a closed-circle time loop. An anomaly in four dimensions, sure to attract the attention of the Lords of Probability and Possibility to Earth, where their servants would encounter Cable, a nexus of time and space... and result in the beginning of my story line featuring the three sisters.

Who stole the First Summers child and took him back to ancient Egypt? Could it have been Apocalypse, returned from the future, guaranteeing he would grow up in the past? Or might it have been Stryfe, for the same reason? Or maybe some other time traveler (there sure are enough of them in the Marvel universe) for reasons still to be explained? I know what I think, but that’s for another column someday.

There it is: my theory of the third Summers brother. Exactly as I had planned it four years ago but never had a chance to see in print. Consider it an alternate version of Marvel history, for your amusement and entertainment. Something to think about over the holiday season.


Post Edited:2007-04-13 00:49:40

#38 Posted by Shatterstar (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea I don't like that at all, horrible. Didn't read his run on Cable, glad I didn't, I've heard it was bad though. Goes along the lines of what you were saying about mutants having only mutant babies with similar powers. Retcons galore, I really really don't like those kind of retcons. Jean Grey's great grandma was a mutant, so thats why she's powerful. Gimme a break. Good job to the editors for shutting him down before he did any more damage.

And the idea of Apocalypse existing however many thousands of years ago being ridiculous because its bad science is just dumb. Since when does science and logic determine how powerful a mutant is going to be? Marvel wanting to push some paper during the summer months usually determines how powerful someone is. Not to mention that the first mutant could've been as easily or more plausibly transplanted by the Celestials or some other being that uses Earth as a test tube. Or he could've been an anomaly, not uncommon in nature.

Considering Nicieza who dropped the original hint, said it was supposed to be Adam-X, I say its pretty much resolved already. Vulcan being the lawyerly "just because Sinister said brother in singular form doesn't necessarily mean there's only three brothers", adding anymore at this point would just be ridiculous.

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#39 Posted by Nameless one (516 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"Lady Master Mind, isnt she the duaghter of the Hell Fire Club's Mastermind?"

yes although unlike Mastermind who could only create illusions and nothing else Lady Mastermind can create illusions involving victims memories sorry I don't mean to sound like a know it all but she is one of my favorites

#40 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

Shatterstar says:

"...adding anymore at this point would just be ridiculous. "

But that's the Quesada way.

#41 Posted by Shatterstar (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

Prurience Man says:

"Shatterstar says:
"...adding anymore at this point would just be ridiculous. "

But that's the Quesada way."

Speaking of which, I was looking at the X-Men membership page, is it just me or has there been more new X-Men members over the last decade than the rest of the entire history, 30+ years prior combined?

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#42 Posted by Prodigal Son (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's because every new writer feels like he/she hasn't left their mark on the comic world unless they've created their own new "team." Never mind crafting good stories with existing characters, they saddle us with a heap of mediocrity that the next writer has to slough through and make some sense.

Add to that effect, every new writer thinks they have to can some of the characters created by their predecessor in order to make their own story carry more weight. Either that, or we suffer through one ineffective retcon after another that serves no purpose to the overall plot line, but brings back "the character I always wanted to work with but would have never had the chance if I hadn't brought them back to life/changed their past/screwed the fans."

I think you're right on the money Shatterstar. In fact, aren't we about due for the newest crop of new "X-Men?" That latest round is already a little stale.

#43 Posted by Sling Shot (3560 posts) - - Show Bio

I think mutants have been watered down as of late and the decimation should have gotten rid of all the unoriginal waste of spaces.

As for inheriting identical powers from parent mutants, that idea sucks, but I do like the powers to be related in a subtle or obscure way. Nocturnal is a good example of an offspring. Cable is not and neither is Siryn or whoever else.

#44 Posted by Suigetsu (1720 posts) - - Show Bio

huh? well..... for me cable will always be scott and jean's son.

BTW ¡if deadpool and siryn have a child it would be very dangerous!
Just imagine the loud mouth and the motor mouth = mega none shutting up mouth?
hes gona need a voice cast or something to control hes vocal powers.
#45 Posted by Leliel (1452 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer hybrids like Luna who is part mutant and inhuman, and she is not over powerful. We need Deviant mutant hybrid, Kree-Deviant hybrid and finally Shi'ar-Skrull and after you have all those guys mix up have them somehow made with mutant and now if we don't get some defform mother @$%$ then I don't know what. But series I want more hybrids

#46 Posted by Shatterstar (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy thread necromancy Batman. P-Man needs to make a comeback.

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#47 Posted by nkyzack (53 posts) - - Show Bio

I thhought this was always sort of a 50/50 thing. They may inherit their parents poweres (Polaris) or have totally unrelated powers (Qucksilver/Scarlet witch). But they did always touch on oddities between relatives and powers, such as Cyclopse and Havoc, their powers don't affect eachother. I think it could go either way cuz that's how genetics work. It's just a crapshoot as to which genes are dominate, like two blonds giving birth to a brunette, sure they're blond but that doesn't mean there's not a brunette gene floating around inside them somewhere.

#48 Posted by Gloom (3653 posts) - - Show Bio

Technically mutants can pass down a mutated gene to their offspring, so it would be quite normal for kids to have the same (i.e. exactly similar, not more powerful) powers than their parents. I think.

#49 Posted by Suigetsu (1720 posts) - - Show Bio

or maybe they are born without any power at all :s

#50 Posted by Leliel (1452 posts) - - Show Bio

I just like to see some of those mixes we haven't, like a kid from Angel and Dazzler. Would he/she be able to make tangen light into wings, armors or control energies. Maybe one from Shadow Cat and Colossus can phase but still super-strongh or the idea of Gambit and Storm being together from the Exiles, Weapon X. What sort of child would that lead too? I can't even imagen much except it should have Gambit's eyes and Storm's white hair

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