Messiah War > Utopia

#1 Posted by Grendel (560 posts) - - Show Bio

I really think Utopia ended up being more stretched out, redundant and ultimately pointless.

#2 Posted by xerox_kitty (15762 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, the whole of Messiah War was also stretched out and could have been summed up in half as many issues.  That said, I still preferred it to Utopia.  At least Messiah War had characterisation.  Utopia was a mess, with too many characters acting out of character from start to finish.

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#3 Posted by Lifeguard85 (392 posts) - - Show Bio

Utopia was a Cyclops and Emma mini, with X-Men cameos. It probably would have been good if they had intended for it to be that, rather than being an incredible X-Men story, which it obviously did not achieve

#4 Posted by box turtle (1258 posts) - - Show Bio

Utopia was horrendously awful.
#5 Posted by Bobby X (1141 posts) - - Show Bio

Utopia was such a huge letdown. I didn't like how Fraction wrote most of the characters at all. Utopia ended up being one giant setup for Exodus which hopefully will deliver and save this crossover.
#6 Posted by xerox_kitty (15762 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed.  Too many characters that one man couldn't handle.  That meant too many fights to follow in the last battle.  He created needless sub-plots like Dani's mission to beg power off of Hela, only to punch Ares a couple of times.  Rogue held him off once, couldn't they have done that again without disrespecting what Dani went through during the Acts of Vengeance?  It reminds me of Dazzler's brief moment of action in the Sisterhood story.  One blast of power isn't enough to justify the character being brought along.  It felt like it was squeezed in as a means to give Dani some sort of power and therefore useable by Fraction in future.  
 
The entire story was so poorly scripted, it read like a cheesy-bad B movie.  It was badly connected together.  Made little use of the Dark Avengers who where meant to be the other team in the cross-over.  And abused characters' personalities (Xavier condescended to Emma Frost, despite the fact that she had taken an aggressive stroll through his memories just a few weeks earlier).   All for what?  To raise Asteroid M and called it Utopia?  To create a "homeland" for mutants?  If the X-Men wanted that, then they would have joined Magneto on Asteroid M... or even on Genosha, a real country (not just a rock in the middle of the sea) that was a mutant haven.
 
What's worse... it isn't even over!  The cross-over has finished, but it hasn't.  Utopia has ended, but you're still meant to part with your hard-earned cash to buy The Confession AND The List.  Shouldn't an epilogue be self-contained?  Let alone having two separate epilogues. 
 
Messiah War was a let down because it wasn't as good as Messiah CompleX. 
 
However, Utopia was just crap.

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#7 Posted by Lifeguard85 (392 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerox-kitty: Ive never read Acts of Vengence, what happened to Dani...plus, my thought is that if she is going to be all Valkyrie now, she shouldnt be with the X-men...she should go do her duties as an actual Valkyrie and join the Asgardians, that was my problem with that...and the brief fight.
 
I already posted how annoyed I was at the fights..."Girl power!" rather then letting Laura and Daken cut loose...and dazzler and Northstar single handedly being taken out by Dark Beast...really? But Pixie totally saves the day no matter what she does. Maybe if JP had his motorcycle, he would have been able to move faster and actually do something during the fight
#8 Posted by King Saturn (224026 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Utopia... its my favorite flavor of Yogurt  !

jk


#9 Posted by EisforExtinction (1909 posts) - - Show Bio

Messiah War < Utopia
Utopia < Messiah CompleX

#10 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

with all that happened in Messiah War, they could have packed it into one issue.

#11 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

Both events were disappointing, but I made it all the way through Messiah War. I stopped buying Utopia after the opening one-shot. Matt Fraction can not write a team book, never mind two. It is beyond the scope of his abilities. I wish they would have realized this before this event was allowed to occur. Xerox-kitty, as usual, has already said most of the other things I would have said on this topic.

#12 Posted by Mr. Wilson (6322 posts) - - Show Bio

 I disagree!
 
I enjoyed both and I wasn't disappointed. Exodus was really good and Messiah War was just fanboy for me.

#13 Edited by Grendel (560 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerox-kitty said:
"

Well, the whole of Messiah War was also stretched out and could have been summed up in half as many issues.  That said, I still preferred it to Utopia.  At least Messiah War had characterisation.  Utopia was a mess, with too many characters acting out of character from start to finish.

"
Absolutely. You could have incorporated those Cable issues into the X-force ishs and cut the crossover by half. Or at least had Cyclops show up. But even despite that, it still didn't feel as esoteric and overall stupid as Fraction's writing in Utopia. How can one guy make Iron Man so compelling while reducing the X-men to soundbites.
 
And it's funny somebody mentioned the Dark Beast. He was the central reason I picked up Utopia and he was used terribly. Stabbed in the chest twice by warpath in the second to last chapter, I was foolishly worried he was used purely as cannon fodder in this throwaway crossover. Nope, silly me, there he was in the final chapter wearing his stupid wraparound sunglasses costume as if nothing happened.  Only to be taken out yet again in mere seconds. Looks like they finished him off this time because he DEFINITELY wasn't shown escaping with Osborn and his crew.
 
OH WAIT. There he is at the press conference with Osborn. How could I be so foolish not to just to assume he just escaped?
#14 Posted by G-w-D (547 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerox-kitty said:
"Agreed.  Too many characters that one man couldn't handle.  That meant too many fights to follow in the last battle.  He created needless sub-plots like Dani's mission to beg power off of Hela, only to punch Ares a couple of times.  Rogue held him off once, couldn't they have done that again without disrespecting what Dani went through during the Acts of Vengeance?  It reminds me of Dazzler's brief moment of action in the Sisterhood story.  One blast of power isn't enough to justify the character being brought along.  It felt like it was squeezed in as a means to give Dani some sort of power and therefore useable by Fraction in future.   The entire story was so poorly scripted, it read like a cheesy-bad B movie.  It was badly connected together.  Made little use of the Dark Avengers who where meant to be the other team in the cross-over.  And abused characters' personalities (Xavier condescended to Emma Frost, despite the fact that she had taken an aggressive stroll through his memories just a few weeks earlier).   All for what?  To raise Asteroid M and called it Utopia?  To create a "homeland" for mutants?  If the X-Men wanted that, then they would have joined Magneto on Asteroid M... or even on Genosha, a real country (not just a rock in the middle of the sea) that was a mutant haven. What's worse... it isn't even over!  The cross-over has finished, but it hasn't.  Utopia has ended, but you're still meant to part with your hard-earned cash to buy The Confession AND The List.  Shouldn't an epilogue be self-contained?  Let alone having two separate epilogues.  Messiah War was a let down because it wasn't as good as Messiah CompleX.  However, Utopia was just crap. "

God should bless you
#15 Posted by Grendel (560 posts) - - Show Bio

And for those of you who also foolishly bought "The List # 1" like I did, the early four page preview and the preview posted here a few weeks ago was more than half the issue. The other half was the Daredevil The List preview we already saw in Daredevil # 500 and some preview art for the X-men: The List one-shot.

#16 Posted by HarryF25 (70 posts) - - Show Bio

messiah war kicked ass i loved it
some issues were a bit crappy but the majority were good

#17 Posted by Grendel (560 posts) - - Show Bio

It was like porn for Stryfe fans.

#18 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (7681 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked it however it was all a little 'all smoke and no fire' till the end.

#19 Posted by Truex (460 posts) - - Show Bio

Both were a waste of money but Utopia was worse

#20 Posted by thetitan0 (846 posts) - - Show Bio

liked utopia better than mw but both were good. i never read mc both i'm going to. and with necrosha coming up and all these omega level mutants coming back, the 3rd chapter in the messiah 3-parter will change the x-men and marvel universe forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=)

#21 Posted by Grendel (560 posts) - - Show Bio

Is there an actual date or estimated time for the final part of the "Messiah trilogy"?
 
A few years? I know Cable & Hope are on their way back.

#22 Posted by CATMANEXE (17052 posts) - - Show Bio

i was pretty much let down by Utopia. the end was neat, that was about all i got from it.
particular gripe was that none of the big battles actually panned out.
cover of last Dark Avengers? X-23 Vs Daken. how did that go? oh yeah, it pretty
much didnt. Namor Vs Sentry? 4 scattered panels, usually in the background.
Colossus Vs Venom last round? nothing. Archangel Vs Bullseye. bring it on...
wait, what happened. ect, then issue after issue of filler and being told Beasts
team is underwater doing something. oh, and Psylocke is with them as her special 
skills are going to be needed (which were???).
 
nope. Messiah War all the way for me. tightly knit, the fights actually happened, issues
that were raised were resolved, rising action to a climax and ending like a good book should have.

#23 Edited by xerox_kitty (15762 posts) - - Show Bio
@Grendel said:

" Is there an actual date or estimated time for the final part of the "Messiah trilogy"?  A few years? I know Cable & Hope are on their way back. "

I don't think it will be that long.  If Cable & Hope are going to start their return journey into the past/present then the third chapter can't be far behind. 
 
This week's X-Position asks :
"When can we expect to hear more about the third act of the “Messiah” trilogy? Do you have any details about it yet? How many issues it will be? Will it involve crossovers?" 
 
AXEL ALONSO: The event will be structured more or less like “Messiah CompleX,” starting with a one-shot, cutting across four monthly titles for three months, and winding up in a double-sized one-shot. More details to be announced soon.       
 
So that certainly sounds like it's been planned and will happen soon.  Maybe in about 6 months time or less?? :)
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#24 Posted by Grendel (560 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerox-kitty : Thanks for that. Not sure if that is good news or bad.

#25 Posted by Hawkling (178 posts) - - Show Bio

it sucks they're spreading the third act across four books, this is just gonna be a reason to buy more books.
 
hopefully it'll be worth it like messiah complex was

#26 Posted by xerox_kitty (15762 posts) - - Show Bio
@Grendel said:

" @xerox-kitty : Thanks for that. Not sure if that is good news or bad. "

LOL!  Sorry... well, I'm hoping it'll be good news :) 
 
@Hawkling said:

"it sucks they're spreading the third act across four books, this is just gonna be a reason to buy more books.  hopefully it'll be worth it like messiah complex was "

Messiah CompleX was spread across four books and in retrospect it's hailed as one of the best X-Men cross-overs.  Fan reaction to Messiah War wasn't as positive and that was only between two books. 

It's only natural that the concluding part will be as big as the opening part.  Also, as it all surrounds Hope and the possibility that she is the Messiah which will effect all of the mutants, then it is only natural that it has an impact across as many mutant books as possible. 
 
The thing is, Axel Alonso said it will be across 4 books.  However there are currently 5 X-titles; New Mutants, Uncanny X-Men, X-Factor, X-Force & X-Men: Legacy.  Is one of the X-titles facing cancellation, or are they going to omit X-Factor because they're the only mutant team left in New York/not in San Francisco?
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#27 Edited by Grendel (560 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerox-kitty :

Is one of the X-titles facing cancellation, or are they going to omit X-Factor because they're the only mutant team left in New York/not in San Francisco? "

Y'know, I have a bad feeling Carey is going to be making his way out soon. His focus is too jerky (Not by choice) and it seems like editorial pulled the chute on the Xavier-centric Legacy very quickly. He's my current favorite X-writer because his stories are intelligent and thoughtful (I think he was a big part in making Messiah Complex so damned good). Carey also makes good use of existing characters like Kyle & Yost do. I know a lot of readers find his work to be dull, but I find it to be a joy and will miss it if my prediction is right.
 
I'd also love him to get his hands on Stryfe before he departs.
#28 Posted by xerox_kitty (15762 posts) - - Show Bio
@Grendel: I hope not.  It wouldn't be the first time for a book to set up a new direction/beginning only to be axed shortly afterwards.  Although, lately it has wavered.  When X-Men was turned into Legacy it felt like it had no direction.  The Professor Xaver story felt like a tacked on excuse to re-tell the history of the X-Men and it bored me.  Slowly they began to tell actual stories again... and now, finally, it feels like it will ive up to the name 'Legacy' by focussing on the new/young X-Men. 
 
I suspect that it will be X-Factor which are left out since they are the other side of the country and PAD doesn't seem too keen on cross-overs.  That would be a shame, since Messiah CompleX had such a big impact on both Madrox and Layla.
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#29 Edited by Grendel (560 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerox-kitty:  I really want to read the entirety of PAD's run, especially after catching up with his tiff with Liefeld.
 
I'd also like to mention that if you didn't like Utopia, there's no way you'll enjoy the X-men: List, which is just more of the same.
#30 Posted by xerox_kitty (15762 posts) - - Show Bio
@Grendel said:
"@xerox-kitty:  I really want to read the entirety of PAD's run, especially after catching up with his tiff with Liefeld.  I'd also like to mention that if you didn't like Utopia, there's no way you'll enjoy the X-men: List, which is just more of the same. "
I don't always enjoy PADs stuff, but for the majority of time he knows how to provide bucket loads of charactersation.   
 
Yeah, I suspected as much.  I like to avoid Claremont's recent works and as it is just another AU then I can't be bothered to get it.
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