Isn't the Blue team more in line with Xaviers dream?

#1 Posted by Osian2 (455 posts) - - Show Bio

I was just over on CBR where in one of the AVX threads someone said that the Blue team had given up on Xaviers dream of peaceful coexistence because Scott was more concerned with survival and had isolated the mutants on Utopia and that opening the school was the right decision. But isn't the Blue team still trying to coexist with humans? In Uncanny the team has responded to emergencies all over the world to save humans in San Francisco against Sinister, in Tabula Rasa to save the police officers who were investigating and when hunting the prisoners alongside the Avengers. The New Mutants now live in San Francisco to improve Mutant-Human relations and in adjectiveless X-men Storm and her team are traveling the world stopping monsters. Utopia still has a good relationship with San Francisco they even have X-men patrol teams there and they even have a PR rep in Kate Kildare.

The gold team however hasn't really done much to improve human-mutant relations. WatX is mainly focused on the school and its students, Uncanny X-force is a secret team so it's understandable why human-mutant relations won't be a part of it and so far X-men Legacy has only featured events at the school. I haven't read Astonishing so I don't know if that has improved anything.

So really isn't the blue team more in line with Xaviers dream? Opening a school is definitely more like the traditional X-men but isn't the school even more isolated than Utopia?

I know I left out X-factor but they're a Gold team in name only the schism didn't affect how they operate at all.

#2 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

Exactly

#3 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

Blue team has left Xavier's dream by trying to force their decisions on the populace. They're not trying to usher in change, they're behaving like the Authority.

#4 Posted by Osian2 (455 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

Blue team has left Xavier's dream by trying to force their decisions on the populace. They're not trying to usher in change, they're behaving like the Authority.

How so? They haven't forced anyone to do anything. During the schism anyone who disagreed with the blue team were allowed to leave

#5 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@Osian2 said:

@fodigg said:

Blue team has left Xavier's dream by trying to force their decisions on the populace. They're not trying to usher in change, they're behaving like the Authority.

How so? They haven't forced anyone to do anything. During the schism anyone who disagreed with the blue team were allowed to leave

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value. However, even when assuming it's as altruistic and awe inspiring as they say, it's still a small group of powerful people making unilateral decisions that have an impact on the global populace.

#6 Posted by Osian2 (455 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@Osian2 said:

@fodigg said:

Blue team has left Xavier's dream by trying to force their decisions on the populace. They're not trying to usher in change, they're behaving like the Authority.

How so? They haven't forced anyone to do anything. During the schism anyone who disagreed with the blue team were allowed to leave

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value. However, even when assuming it's as altruistic and awe inspiring as they say, it's still a small group of powerful people making unilateral decisions that have an impact on the global populace.

Fair enough, I meant how the teams were operating before AVX and who out of the two were truly more in line were following Xaviers dream. If you put a moat around the JGS you've basically got a mini Utopia that's more closed off from humanity.

#7 Posted by Flopsop200 (171 posts) - - Show Bio

@Osian2: @Osian2 said:

I was just over on CBR where in one of the AVX threads someone said that the Blue team had given up on Xaviers dream of peaceful coexistence because Scott was more concerned with survival and had isolated the mutants on Utopia and that opening the school was the right decision. But isn't the Blue team still trying to coexist with humans? In Uncanny the team has responded to emergencies all over the world to save humans in San Francisco against Sinister, in Tabula Rasa to save the police officers who were investigating and when hunting the prisoners alongside the Avengers. The New Mutants now live in San Francisco to improve Mutant-Human relations and in adjectiveless X-men Storm and her team are traveling the world stopping monsters. Utopia still has a good relationship with San Francisco they even have X-men patrol teams there and they even have a PR rep in Kate Kildare.

The gold team however hasn't really done much to improve human-mutant relations. WatX is mainly focused on the school and its students, Uncanny X-force is a secret team so it's understandable why human-mutant relations won't be a part of it and so far X-men Legacy has only featured events at the school. I haven't read Astonishing so I don't know if that has improved anything.

So really isn't the blue team more in line with Xaviers dream? Opening a school is definitely more like the traditional X-men but isn't the school even more isolated than Utopia?

I know I left out X-factor but they're a Gold team in name only the schism didn't affect how they operate at all.

well said

#8 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7303 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty much, and i'll follow that up with a paragraph, but bare with me...

#9 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@Osian2 said:

@fodigg said:

@Osian2 said:

@fodigg said:

Blue team has left Xavier's dream by trying to force their decisions on the populace. They're not trying to usher in change, they're behaving like the Authority.

How so? They haven't forced anyone to do anything. During the schism anyone who disagreed with the blue team were allowed to leave

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value. However, even when assuming it's as altruistic and awe inspiring as they say, it's still a small group of powerful people making unilateral decisions that have an impact on the global populace.

Fair enough, I meant how the teams were operating before AVX and who out of the two were truly more in line were following Xaviers dream. If you put a moat around the JGS you've basically got a mini Utopia that's more closed off from humanity.

The school and the superhero team were both equally part of Xavier's dream. Safe haven, learning, and outreach. Wolverine had abandoned the outreach, Scott had abandoned the safe haven, and they both had different ideas on what type of learning was important. I think that's what made schism interesting, because it was a true splitting of Xavier's dream.

#10 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value.

They made an Utopia around the world! There's no war or discrimination and all the weapons are destroyed, they have eliminated hunger and thirst and procured an endless source of energy! If this isn't enough to judje the value of their actions I don't know what else they have to do!

#11 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value.

They made an Utopia around the world! There's no war or discrimination and all the weapons are destroyed, they have eliminated hunger and thirst and procured an endless source of energy! If this isn't enough to judje the value of their actions I don't know what else they have to do!

We're told all this but not shown it.

#12 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value.

They made an Utopia around the world! There's no war or discrimination and all the weapons are destroyed, they have eliminated hunger and thirst and procured an endless source of energy! If this isn't enough to judje the value of their actions I don't know what else they have to do!

We're told all this but not shown it.

Weel, I saw it o.O Avengers Vs X-Men #6, X-Men Legacy and Avengers Academy showed this quite explicitly

#13 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value.

They made an Utopia around the world! There's no war or discrimination and all the weapons are destroyed, they have eliminated hunger and thirst and procured an endless source of energy! If this isn't enough to judje the value of their actions I don't know what else they have to do!

We're told all this but not shown it.

Weel, I saw it o.O Avengers Vs X-Men #6, X-Men Legacy and Avengers Academy showed this quite explicitly

Not really. They showed a few glimpses, but didn't really dig into the politics of everything.

#14 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value.

They made an Utopia around the world! There's no war or discrimination and all the weapons are destroyed, they have eliminated hunger and thirst and procured an endless source of energy! If this isn't enough to judje the value of their actions I don't know what else they have to do!

We're told all this but not shown it.

Weel, I saw it o.O Avengers Vs X-Men #6, X-Men Legacy and Avengers Academy showed this quite explicitly

Not really. They showed a few glimpses, but didn't really dig into the politics of everything.

The sad truth is that Extinction Team had been making great strides to both improve relations between mutants and humans and save lives, however, they were just on the receiving end of a really bad conflict as well as a horrible twist of fate. Just think what could've happened had Tony not tried to obliterate the Phoenix Force.

#15 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value.

They made an Utopia around the world! There's no war or discrimination and all the weapons are destroyed, they have eliminated hunger and thirst and procured an endless source of energy! If this isn't enough to judje the value of their actions I don't know what else they have to do!

We're told all this but not shown it.

Weel, I saw it o.O Avengers Vs X-Men #6, X-Men Legacy and Avengers Academy showed this quite explicitly

Not really. They showed a few glimpses, but didn't really dig into the politics of everything.

They showed also their delings with thu UN... They have shown about everything we had to know about their actions

#16 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value.

They made an Utopia around the world! There's no war or discrimination and all the weapons are destroyed, they have eliminated hunger and thirst and procured an endless source of energy! If this isn't enough to judje the value of their actions I don't know what else they have to do!

We're told all this but not shown it.

Weel, I saw it o.O Avengers Vs X-Men #6, X-Men Legacy and Avengers Academy showed this quite explicitly

Not really. They showed a few glimpses, but didn't really dig into the politics of everything.

They showed also their delings with thu UN... They have shown about everything we had to know about their actions

Showing a meeting about their actions is not the same as showing their actions. Saying "we've seen everything we know about it" doesn't really mean much.

#17 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

@Veitha said:

@fodigg said:

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value.

They made an Utopia around the world! There's no war or discrimination and all the weapons are destroyed, they have eliminated hunger and thirst and procured an endless source of energy! If this isn't enough to judje the value of their actions I don't know what else they have to do!

We're told all this but not shown it.

Weel, I saw it o.O Avengers Vs X-Men #6, X-Men Legacy and Avengers Academy showed this quite explicitly

Not really. They showed a few glimpses, but didn't really dig into the politics of everything.

They showed also their delings with thu UN... They have shown about everything we had to know about their actions

Showing a meeting about their actions is not the same as showing their actions. Saying "we've seen everything we know about it" doesn't really mean much.

Well, if Marvel had to show you everything about the Phoenix Five they would have to do an entire book about it, a really boring book. They haven't shown everything because narratively a mistake. But the P5 have objectively made an Utopia

#18 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha: Yeah okay.

#19 Posted by papad1992 (6793 posts) - - Show Bio

This is such an adult conversation... no haters, no bad words, no vendettas, not a single person jumping out of nowhere saying something unrelated and offensive that leads to strife, just normal intellectual talk... I'm so proud of u guys!! Hugs!

#20 Posted by Yai_Inn (352 posts) - - Show Bio
@Osian2: Northstar's wedding in Astonishing should chalk up points on the mutant-human relations...as well as X-Men-Avengers relations. 
#21 Posted by photowill404 (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@Osian2 said:

I was just over on CBR where in one of the AVX threads someone said that the Blue team had given up on Xaviers dream of peaceful coexistence because Scott was more concerned with survival and had isolated the mutants on Utopia and that opening the school was the right decision. But isn't the Blue team still trying to coexist with humans? In Uncanny the team has responded to emergencies all over the world to save humans in San Francisco against Sinister, in Tabula Rasa to save the police officers who were investigating and when hunting the prisoners alongside the Avengers. The New Mutants now live in San Francisco to improve Mutant-Human relations and in adjectiveless X-men Storm and her team are traveling the world stopping monsters. Utopia still has a good relationship with San Francisco they even have X-men patrol teams there and they even have a PR rep in Kate Kildare.

The gold team however hasn't really done much to improve human-mutant relations. WatX is mainly focused on the school and its students, Uncanny X-force is a secret team so it's understandable why human-mutant relations won't be a part of it and so far X-men Legacy has only featured events at the school. I haven't read Astonishing so I don't know if that has improved anything.

So really isn't the blue team more in line with Xaviers dream? Opening a school is definitely more like the traditional X-men but isn't the school even more isolated than Utopia?

I know I left out X-factor but they're a Gold team in name only the schism didn't affect how they operate at all.

Couldnt have expressed this any better myself.

#22 Posted by BlackArmor (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

Completely agreed

#23 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

@Osian2 said:

@fodigg said:

Blue team has left Xavier's dream by trying to force their decisions on the populace. They're not trying to usher in change, they're behaving like the Authority.

How so? They haven't forced anyone to do anything. During the schism anyone who disagreed with the blue team were allowed to leave

I'm talking more about the actions of the blue team following the Phoenix Five stuff. We're told they're going out and using their powers to "save humanity" but we don't see enough of it to really judge its value. However, even when assuming it's as altruistic and awe inspiring as they say, it's still a small group of powerful people making unilateral decisions that have an impact on the global populace.

This exactly, I've argued on CBR this point, what the P5 did is good on paper but the truth remains that what's given to what fodigg mention.

#24 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1360 posts) - - Show Bio
Utopia still has a good relationship with San Francisco

Ummm maybe but considering scott told the mayer after fear itself if she every acted against utopia he,d have the cukoos turn her brain off that might have changed.

#25 Posted by McKlayn (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@Crimsonlord53 said:

Utopia still has a good relationship with San Francisco

Ummm maybe but considering scott told the mayer after fear itself if she every acted against utopia he,d have the cukoos turn her brain off that might have changed.

+10 Cool points for Scott ;D

#26 Posted by Rickbarry (1852 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

Blue team has left Xavier's dream by trying to force their decisions on the populace. They're not trying to usher in change, they're behaving like the Authority.

Xavier did jack with his dream. You've gotta take what you want. No one is going to give it to them.

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