Is she where she is today cause she earned it, or was it given to

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#1 Posted by time (5048 posts) - - Show Bio

It got me thinking, is Emma where she is today, cause she earn it or was it given to her.

I think Emma is where she is today, for these reasons only :

1) Marvel got rid of Jean Grey, Emma is only popular cause, Jean Grey has been absent for 9 years.

2) Marvel made Storm marrying Black Panther, had her leave the X-Men for a while, then return her in 2008 and then marvel made her irrelevant for about 4/5 years.

3) Emma Frost never earned right to be X-Men leading lady, it was given to her. Marvel got rid Jean Grey and Emma automatically became X-Men leading lady. Infact if you look at the most of the X- ladies. They were treating pretty badly.

Jean was treated badly for 9 years

Psylocke was treated badly for 9 years

Storm was treated badly for 4/5 years

Polaris and Rachel end up in space for 3 years.

Kitty ended up Magic Bullet for about a year or 2.

The only competion Emma face was from Rogue and Rogue wasn't in Uncannny X-Men for that long and she didn't play a role in Messiah Complex, cause she was shot by her mother

Emma Frost didn't earn her right to be X-Men leading lady, it was given to her, quite easily. She is where she is today, cause of the treatment done to the other X-Ladies.

Would Emma be where is today, if Marvel never treated Jean and Storm so badly over the years ? .

Whelther your a fans of Emma or not, please share your views.

#2 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

Earned it. Quite frankly, that is all I am going to say. I know where you stand on Emma, time, so I am just going to end any discussions on the matter there.

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#3 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

She earned the sh*t. Don't understand why you deliberately create open threads like these while transposing your bias onto every following point.

#4 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@time: I first became a fan of Emma when they brought her back in the 90's; I loved her reintroduction story with Iceman, and I liked her a lot in the first year of Generation X.

I also thought she was super interesting in Morrison's New X-men and she was one of my favourites in Whedon's Astonishing X-men, and those are two of my favourite eras, so that puts her pretty high on my list.

I really don't see how you can blame other characters being written poorly for Emma's appeal; it just makes no sense to me.

#5 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio

Vance Astro made you create this thread and for the negative feedback I am amused.

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#6 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

I really don't see how you can blame other characters being written poorly for Emma's appeal; it just makes no sense to me.

Look at it through the eyes of a Jean Grey lover/Emma Frost hater.

Makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?

On topic: She's earned a position on the X-Men. All those things happened, PLUS Charles went missing, and now Magneto's on the team as well. I don't see you arguing that he didn't earn his place.

#7 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

@dangallant984 said:

I really don't see how you can blame other characters being written poorly for Emma's appeal; it just makes no sense to me.

Look at it through the eyes of a Jean Grey lover/Emma Frost hater.

Makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?

still don't see the logic.

#8 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

still don't see the logic.

That would be because there isn't any.

#9 Posted by Vance Astro (91262 posts) - - Show Bio
@dangallant984 said:

still don't see the logic.

I think he was being sarcastic.
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#10 Edited by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: @JonSmith: that's what I assumed, but I try to keep an open mind.

#11 Edited by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

How many times are we gonna get these type of threads from you? We get it that you do not like Emma and that you do not think she earned the right as a leading X-lady.  You do not need to keep making the same threads poorly explaining why over and over and over again.

#12 Posted by Veitha (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

C'mon, Emma is where she is because people like her. No one gave her nothing and she's earned the respect of X-Men fans. There's no plot against the other X-Men hatched by Marvel, it's just that people like her.

#13 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

BAM!!!

Nail on the head!

#14 Edited by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Bullsh!t.

2. And? There was alot more there then just Emma Frost. Blame the writing not Emma.

3. I have never once seen Jean as Marvel's leading lady or the X-Men's ever. She has always been support fodder. I don't dislike her, but Storm and Rogue have always outshined her.

#15 Posted by SC (13149 posts) - - Show Bio

These are fictional characters. Jean, Storm, Cyclops, Gambit, Colossus, Rogue never earned anything, they are fictional characters written by writers, writers who had a knack for telling compelling stories and writing fascinating characters that speak to people and vibe well with them. Writers earned loyalty and dedication for characters they wrote.

Emma Frost is popular for two generalized reasons. First she is a big wake up call and slap to the face of the X-Franchise and its stagnant regressive stale atmosphere it had started to build up. Once upon a time characters like Rogue, Polaris and Kitty were new characters and then current X-Fans disliked them and thought they sucked and didn't deserve their place. Once upon a time Wolverine and Storm were new characters that fans way back complained about as well. its a common human nature trait thing to be adverse to change and milk sacred cows. Emma, like Storm, like Kitty, like Rogue brought change and shifted the X-Balance. Thats one reason Emma got popular fast because it allowed new readers to experience and old brand in a new light.

Emma is also a witty, smart, intelligent snarky, rude, funny, endearing character. Even with the incredible range of sass, stoicism, stubbornness, depth, spirited, witty, sweet, innocent, demonstrated by many of the other X-Woman (and X-Men) characters, Emma Frost brought a type of personality to the X-Books that they never really had before. Even for old school X-Men readers like me who had read every issue of the two main X-Men series and 90% of everything else, it was really nice to have another strong, original character join the X-Men ranks and interact with my favorite other characters and even allow my favorites to have new aspects of their personality brought out. Suddenly Beast had a new intellectual theater buddy, Wolverine had someone who could poke fun at him with arrogance, Psylocke had a verbal sparring partner, Storm had an assertive, strong confident woman that was the total opposite of her appear. Jean gained a frenemy and cynical mirror. Xavier gained a new telepathic ally, Cyclops gained a new outlet and medium to feel and think through. Emma did what all the best X-Men additions of the last 30 years had done, and come in and complimented all the characters rather than detract from them. So thats another reason Emma got popular, appeal to new readers and existing X-Fans.

Marvel sold out Storm to sate a Black Panther fanboy who wanted a trophy wife queen for himself - sorry "Black Panther" true, when did that happen? In 2006, when did Emma get written into X-Men by Grant Morrison? 2001??? I mean smoking Phoenix beard, thats a five year gap in time, Storm was being used by Chris Claremont in X-Treme X-Men and Emma was becoming very popular very fast regardless of that. In 2008 Matt Fraction started writing X-Men, so any characters that became irrelevant were the lucky characters, because they didn't have their characterization slaughtered.

Saying Emma Frost didn't earn her spot is akin to saying your not a real X-Men fan for not understanding or caring about the time frames these characters operated under, or saying you can't be a true fan of Jean Grey, Rogue and Storm if you don't accept Emma as well, and like her, it just don't make sense unless you ignore these are fictional characters and or that there is some subjectivity involved, and that you can't continue to read an ongoing series staunchly holding on to this established character superiority being overly critical towards new characters because of blind loyalty to characters you are emotionally invested in and can't consider objectively. I say with confidence and knowledge of X-Men lore and understanding that Emma Frost would be an even bigger and more popular character today if the other X-Men characters had been written better this last decade or so, if you look at most of the best and most popular characters in X-Men, they got that way because of their interactions and developments with other characters. in fact Emma has suffered when she has been relegated to just Cyclops, Emma thrives when she is fully engaged and working off Cyclops, Kitty, Jean, Colossus, Xavier and Beast. Even in X-Men the End Emma worked well with Rogue. If Marvel and X-Men Editors and X-Men writers treated other characters better Emma would be the better for it. The same way Rogue was better for her interactions with Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Storm, say way Gambit was with Storm, Wolverine, Jubilee and Rogue, same way Storm was with Jean, Cyclops and Wolverine.

You know the thing here? X-Men fans, we are lucky to have gotten Emma. After years of mediocre X-Men stories WE earned a fanfreakingtastic character in Emma Frost - who was there before, sure, and I loved Gen X, but seriously, X-Men really needed Emma and X-23 when those two ladies came around.

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#16 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7297 posts) - - Show Bio

Though, keep in mind Bendis is currently having a ball, sh*tting on the character and all she stands for, so i guess there's no grounding for the OP anyways. Trolololol.

#17 Posted by kiss_lamia (1247 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma earned her spot and good on her too! GET OVER IT!! We're sorry miss red head has been gone to long for ya, but she has plenty of old comics to re read go do that!

#18 Posted by Veitha (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

These are fictional characters. Jean, Storm, Cyclops, Gambit, Colossus, Rogue never earned anything, they are fictional characters written by writers, writers who had a knack for telling compelling stories and writing fascinating characters that speak to people and vibe well with them. Writers earned loyalty and dedication for characters they wrote.

Emma Frost is popular for two generalized reasons. First she is a big wake up call and slap to the face of the X-Franchise and its stagnant regressive stale atmosphere it had started to build up. Once upon a time characters like Rogue, Polaris and Kitty were new characters and then current X-Fans disliked them and thought they sucked and didn't deserve their place. Once upon a time Wolverine and Storm were new characters that fans way back complained about as well. its a common human nature trait thing to be adverse to change and milk sacred cows. Emma, like Storm, like Kitty, like Rogue brought change and shifted the X-Balance. Thats one reason Emma got popular fast because it allowed new readers to experience and old brand in a new light.

Emma is also a witty, smart, intelligent snarky, rude, funny, endearing character. Even with the incredible range of sass, stoicism, stubbornness, depth, spirited, witty, sweet, innocent, demonstrated by many of the other X-Woman (and X-Men) characters, Emma Frost brought a type of personality to the X-Books that they never really had before. Even for old school X-Men readers like me who had read every issue of the two main X-Men series and 90% of everything else, it was really nice to have another strong, original character join the X-Men ranks and interact with my favorite other characters and even allow my favorites to have new aspects of their personality brought out. Suddenly Beast had a new intellectual theater buddy, Wolverine had someone who could poke fun at him with arrogance, Psylocke had a verbal sparring partner, Storm had an assertive, strong confident woman that was the total opposite of her appear. Jean gained a frenemy and cynical mirror. Xavier gained a new telepathic ally, Cyclops gained a new outlet and medium to feel and think through. Emma did what all the best X-Men additions of the last 30 years had done, and come in and complimented all the characters rather than detract from them. So thats another reason Emma got popular, appeal to new readers and existing X-Fans.

Marvel sold out Storm to sate a Black Panther fanboy who wanted a trophy wife queen for himself - sorry "Black Panther" true, when did that happen? In 2006, when did Emma get written into X-Men by Grant Morrison? 2001??? I mean smoking Phoenix beard, thats a five year gap in time, Storm was being used by Chris Claremont in X-Treme X-Men and Emma was becoming very popular very fast regardless of that. In 2008 Matt Fraction started writing X-Men, so any characters that became irrelevant were the lucky characters, because they didn't have their characterization slaughtered.

Saying Emma Frost didn't earn her spot is akin to saying your not a real X-Men fan for not understanding or caring about the time frames these characters operated under, or saying you can't be a true fan of Jean Grey, Rogue and Storm if you don't accept Emma as well, and like her, it just don't make sense unless you ignore these are fictional characters and or that there is some subjectivity involved, and that you can't continue to read an ongoing series staunchly holding on to this established character superiority being overly critical towards new characters because of blind loyalty to characters you are emotionally invested in and can't consider objectively. I say with confidence and knowledge of X-Men lore and understanding that Emma Frost would be an even bigger and more popular character today if the other X-Men characters had been written better this last decade or so, if you look at most of the best and most popular characters in X-Men, they got that way because of their interactions and developments with other characters. in fact Emma has suffered when she has been relegated to just Cyclops, Emma thrives when she is fully engaged and working off Cyclops, Kitty, Jean, Colossus, Xavier and Beast. Even in X-Men the End Emma worked well with Rogue. If Marvel and X-Men Editors and X-Men writers treated other characters better Emma would be the better for it. The same way Rogue was better for her interactions with Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Storm, say way Gambit was with Storm, Wolverine, Jubilee and Rogue, same way Storm was with Jean, Cyclops and Wolverine.

You know the thing here? X-Men fans, we are lucky to have gotten Emma. After years of mediocre X-Men stories WE earned a fanfreakingtastic character in Emma Frost - who was there before, sure, and I loved Gen X, but seriously, X-Men really needed Emma and X-23 when those two ladies came around.

Great Post!

#19 Edited by IllyanaRasputin (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

Lolz at this thread.

Fail.

Emma Frost ftw.

#20 Posted by Ellie_Knightfall (4819 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you not already have enough threads that are pretty much dedicated to bashing Emma? Did we really need another?

#21 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33631 posts) - - Show Bio

Whats wrong with going in to space?

#22 Posted by thatlad (594 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't even understand the point of this thread, none of the whole post made sense.

#23 Posted by Brazen_Intellect (1144 posts) - - Show Bio

Was Emma forced into the X-Men as the new female centerpiece, yes she was, but lets not act like this is the first time. Writers move other characters around like chess pieces to focus on the ones they want to use all the time, its nothing new, and has nothing to do with earning it or whatnot. Did Luke Cage earn being the center of New Avengers over far more established ones?

How do you blame the character (Emma) when the writers decide they are going to focus on Cyclops, Emma, and Wolverine for 5 years? I fully agree with you that a lot of good characters were left in the background far too often, but based on the direction it would make no sense for Emma not to be in the forefront regardless of if you like her or not.

As for would she be as popular if the books did not focus on her as they did, nobody knows, I'm sure it helped her case but it is not like she was a complete unknown before then. I can see your point but it is hidden within a rant against a particular character instead of focusing on the ones underutilized, you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

#24 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

You have failed yet again, Time.

#25 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5894 posts) - - Show Bio

To be honest, I don’t blame Emma for the treatment of the other X-Ladies because Emma didn’t cause the other females to be thrown to the background. That was pretty much the writers’ fault for not having anything to do for the other X-Ladies. Also, Emma was a pretty popular character after Grant Morrison’s run on New X-Men and Joss Whedon’s run on Astonishing X-Men and it would make sense for Marvel to put her character into all the X-stories for the past five years since she was very popular towards the fans.

#26 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

any of you guys ever read the letters pages from Uncanny X-men in the late 70's?

you would not believe how much people hated that Angel, Beast, Iceman, and Marvelgirl had been replaced with these ridiculous All New, All Different X-men.

anyway, Emma was training X-men for almost a decade before she became one, and she's been one for more than a decade now; maybe it's time to get over it.

#27 Posted by IllyanaRasputin (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

anyway, Emma was training X-men for almost a decade before she became one, and she's been one for more than a decade now; maybe it's time to get over it.

couldn't agree with this statement more.

@x_29 said:

You have failed yet again, Time.

Lolz.

#29 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1334 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma did not earn the role she took it. There was a hole it needed filling and none of the other X ladies stepped up.

#30 Posted by Backflip (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitely earnt her spot.

#31 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

She earned the sh*t. Don't understand why you deliberately create open threads like these while transposing your bias onto every following point.

Well said.

Especially when Hope is freaking walking around.

#32 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13271 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13271 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe not in the beginning but she's definitely earned it by now

#34 Posted by Crash_Recovery (850 posts) - - Show Bio

It's all about sales. If people just hated her, they'd stop buying the book...

...in theory, I guess.

Out of all fans I know X-Men fans are among the most hard-core, buying books for years even when they don't enjoy them, hoping to recapture the feeling they had when the first started reading.

#35 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984: Hey DG, while I agree with your statement vehemently, one has to remember that X-Men were the all new-all, all-exciting reprints from March 1970 to August or September 1975. That is a compelling reason to get sick of characters. Not slacking Steranko but he wasn't the best X-Men writer...

As far as the thread goes...this is a war of attrition based on fictional characters. For the record, I would pick Jean over Emma any day of the week but I agree with the sentiment that this is a redundant thread, so sorry Time, but it is what it is. However that being said, everyone saying that Time is creating duplicate threads on Jean, in the end really who cares? Time is clearly young and passionate about this topic so if this is what she wants to talk about then so be it. I'm certain people in the Emma, Storm, Cyclops, Rogue, etc threads do the exact thing yet I do not see as much complaining about it there. Seems like a waste of time (no pun intended) to post to a thread you don't like redundant or not.

#36 Posted by Avenger85 (1874 posts) - - Show Bio

lol this topic is not that bad, just look at the Storm forum lol. It's hilarious.

#37 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@chasereis said:

@dangallant984: Hey DG, while I agree with your statement vehemently, one has to remember that X-Men were the all new-all, all-exciting reprints from March 1970 to August or September 1975. That is a compelling reason to get sick of characters. Not slacking Steranko but he wasn't the best X-Men writer...

True, but I really was talking about the fans who hated the new team and wanted the originals to return.

As far as the thread goes...this is a war of attrition based on fictional characters. For the record, I would pick Jean over Emma any day of the week but I agree with the sentiment that this is a redundant thread, so sorry Time, but it is what it is. However that being said, everyone saying that Time is creating duplicate threads on Jean, in the end really who cares? Time is clearly young and passionate about this topic so if this is what she wants to talk about then so be it. I'm certain people in the Emma, Storm, Cyclops, Rogue, etc threads do the exact thing yet I do not see as much complaining about it there. Seems like a waste of time (no pun intended) to post to a thread you don't like redundant or not.

You're right, of course; but, honestly, I really don't taking a minute to stick up for Emma. She's a distint, classic character as well as one of my favourites, and deserves to be popular.

#38 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984: Yes I must stop replying to posts in a pre-caffeine state. It is a disservice to us all. Gomen nasai, DG-sama.

She does need to be popular true however I fear that Emma will never out live the stink of her "rise" (that was a cyclops pun) to fame.

#39 Posted by The Stegman (24648 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to make it clear right now that I don't like Emma Frost at all, if she were a real person, I'd even go so far as to say I hate her, but I will admit, she has earned her seat on the X Men, she's fought hard enough for it. 

#40 Posted by Avenger85 (1874 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't hate or love Emma's character. She's interesting TBH. Just as good as Storm & Psylocke etc.

#41 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Time just needs to Headcanon Emma out of existence and move on.

#42 Posted by Shamelesslysupportinaznballers (553 posts) - - Show Bio

How does a fictional character earn anything?

#43 Posted by poisonfleur (3050 posts) - - Show Bio

I like Emma-- It's just during her rise till maybe a month or two ago, I wish Storm, Psylcoke, Rogue and Jean where written consistent and better.

New light and new fans are great..

But what about the established characters energies, positions, attitudes, and fan base? (Rachel in Space? Jubilee depowered? Storm marrying Black Panther? Psylocke dying? That's all some BS)

I guess some fans feel their characters get the shaft and barely enough justice done-- while Emma is front and center getting everything under the sun. It's okay now-- I think. Things seem to be balancing out for everyone now.

#44 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

Outside of agreeing with most of the posters on this threads in response to the OP -- I don't get why there is any jostling between the female characters in terms of who earned a certain "spot" or not. I think of Rogue, Storm, Emma, Kitty, Psylocke etc as X-Men equally important but distinctly different. Each outside of Kitty has played a leadership role and suggesting one became unfairly important by forcing another aside is kind of insulting.

How about Beast? Angel? Bobby, Magneto, Wolverine, Gambit -- blah blah blah. It's not an gender thing, but it is kinda noticeable. For me, Scott has been the worst thing for Emma in terms of character development the past few years and especially now.

Emma is an X-Man. Don't quite get why there is any conversation where Jean and her are smashed together in an either/or.

#45 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

Outside of agreeing with most of the posters on this threads in response to the OP -- I don't get why there is any jostling between the female characters in terms of who earned a certain "spot" or not. I think of Rogue, Storm, Emma, Kitty, Psylocke etc as X-Men equally important but distinctly different. Each outside of Kitty has played a leadership role and suggesting one became unfairly important by forcing another aside is kind of insulting.

How about Beast? Angel? Bobby, Magneto, Wolverine, Gambit -- blah blah blah. It's not an gender thing, but it is kinda noticeable. For me, Scott has been the worst thing for Emma in terms of character development the past few years and especially now.

Emma is an X-Man. Don't quite get why there is any conversation where Jean and her are smashed together in an either/or.

Well that's just incorrect.

The worst thing for Emma, much like Scott, is sh*t writing.

Gillen, Fraction, Bendis, Aaron, these are the people to blame. Though I realise that blaming Scott is the cooler thing to do, has been since the 80s.

#46 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@lykopis said:

Outside of agreeing with most of the posters on this threads in response to the OP -- I don't get why there is any jostling between the female characters in terms of who earned a certain "spot" or not. I think of Rogue, Storm, Emma, Kitty, Psylocke etc as X-Men equally important but distinctly different. Each outside of Kitty has played a leadership role and suggesting one became unfairly important by forcing another aside is kind of insulting.

How about Beast? Angel? Bobby, Magneto, Wolverine, Gambit -- blah blah blah. It's not an gender thing, but it is kinda noticeable. For me, Scott has been the worst thing for Emma in terms of character development the past few years and especially now.

Emma is an X-Man. Don't quite get why there is any conversation where Jean and her are smashed together in an either/or.

Well that's just incorrect.

The worst thing for Emma, much like Scott, is sh*t writing.

Gillen, Fraction, Bendis, Aaron, these are the people to blame. Though I realise that blaming Scott is the cooler thing to do, has been since the 80s.

I agree with your second sentence, but I stand by what I said. In terms of Emma's character -- being by Scott's side while he spiralled down showed loyalty but having her not prepare for a plan B in terms of their relationship ending is not true to her character. Being paired up with Scott while Utopia was formed and being in the foreground and a warm body to sleep beside did nothing for her. Absolutely it's the writing to blame (clearly) but the direction Bendis is taking Emma is simply more of the same --- Emma just falls in line behind Scott, whether they are together as a couple or not and that is what I am basing my opinion on.

Emma breaking up with Scott should translate in Emma LEAVING Scott. Instead, she is still there because she has no where to go. (as per Bendis). What the f*ck? This is Emma. Emma -- the woman who scraped up a multi billionaire business, the woman who created and ran her own school, the woman who is a survivor. And she supposedly has nowhere to go?

So -- as per the writer she is presently subjected to, I declare Scott is a hindrance to Emma's character. They aren't together anymore? Okay -- fine. Clearly Bendis is unable to write a mature and strong relationship. So let Emma GO. But no -- Scott still needs some female nearby to make him virile and "sensitive" and "human". She is still a prop, a prop for Cyclops. So - until I see the real Emma, I will declare Scott bad for her.

#47 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@lykopis said:

Outside of agreeing with most of the posters on this threads in response to the OP -- I don't get why there is any jostling between the female characters in terms of who earned a certain "spot" or not. I think of Rogue, Storm, Emma, Kitty, Psylocke etc as X-Men equally important but distinctly different. Each outside of Kitty has played a leadership role and suggesting one became unfairly important by forcing another aside is kind of insulting.

How about Beast? Angel? Bobby, Magneto, Wolverine, Gambit -- blah blah blah. It's not an gender thing, but it is kinda noticeable. For me, Scott has been the worst thing for Emma in terms of character development the past few years and especially now.

Emma is an X-Man. Don't quite get why there is any conversation where Jean and her are smashed together in an either/or.

Well that's just incorrect.

The worst thing for Emma, much like Scott, is sh*t writing.

Gillen, Fraction, Bendis, Aaron, these are the people to blame. Though I realise that blaming Scott is the cooler thing to do, has been since the 80s.

I agree with your second sentence, but I stand by what I said. In terms of Emma's character -- being by Scott's side while he spiralled down showed loyalty but having her not prepare for a plan B in terms of their relationship ending is not true to her character. Being paired up with Scott while Utopia was formed and being in the foreground and a warm body to sleep beside did nothing for her. Absolutely it's the writing to blame (clearly) but the direction Bendis is taking Emma is simply more of the same --- Emma just falls in line behind Scott, whether they are together as a couple or not and that is what I am basing my opinion on.

Emma breaking up with Scott should translate in Emma LEAVING Scott. Instead, she is still there because she has no where to go. (as per Bendis). What the f*ck? This is Emma. Emma -- the woman who scraped up a multi billionaire business, the woman who created and ran her own school, the woman who is a survivor. And she supposedly has nowhere to go?

So -- as per the writer she is presently subjected to, I declare Scott is a hindrance to Emma's character. They aren't together anymore? Okay -- fine. Clearly Bendis is unable to write a mature and strong relationship. So let Emma GO. But no -- Scott still needs some female nearby to make him virile and "sensitive" and "human". She is still a prop, a prop for Cyclops. So - until I see the real Emma, I will declare Scott bad for her.

You're still laying blame to a character that doesn't exist. You're saying that Scott is bad for Emma, and maybe I'm being too metaphysical, but Scott and Emma both died long ago. They stopped existing in X-Comics around the time Matt Fraction discovered Israel was a thing and decided to rip it off.

Scott isn't holding Emma back, idiotic writers are holding her back. Sure, she may be that guy walking around in a costume designed by a Judge Dredd fan on meth, but that guy is also just a prop. He's just being used to facilitate Marvel's love of good guys who aren't popular becoming bad guys to make them more extreme. A character needs to exist in order for them to hold another back. Emma is gone, and Cyclops is gone. The two "characters" in their costumes are shallow caricatures, so the correct statement would be that the worst thing for Emma in terms of character development is that she no longer has a character.

#48 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt:

So we agree. Except Emma is being used as some kind of contrast to Scott for HIS "benefit". He isn't the one with "nowhere to go". So I guess the best way to describe my take is that out of these two characters being decimated by crappy writing, Emma is worse off because of being with/near Scott. The focus on Emma is purely her relationship with Scott right now, whereas with Scott, the focus on him is all about being the Mutants self-appointed leader.

The only thing I am grappling with now is if I would rather her character fade into the background or is having her still front in centre worth the destruction of who Emma is.

#49 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: As a Sentry, Ultimate Reed Richards and Cyclops fan, YOU WANT HER TO FADE AWAY. FADING AWAY IS SO MUCH BETTER. NOT JUST BECAUSE THE WORD 'FADE' IS USED, AND THAT EVOKES IMAGES OF ME (THUS BEING INHERENTLY BETTER), JUST TRUST ME, FADING AWAY IS BETTER.

#50 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt:

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