for example jean grey as white phoenix vs phoenix force which one would be stronger?

@nook5733: well in phoenix endsong jean grey ripped the phoenix force from emma without using the phoenix force at all. So jean grey is more powerful than the phoenix force. when jean meet death he said the phoenix force is jeans to control since birth.

Phoenix Force on its own has been blown up and splintered multiple times by crazy scientists. But with a host like Rachel it's been strong enough to fight Galactus, travel through time, and stand against the Beyonder.

I guess without a host its just a jumble of cosmic energy in firebird form but with one its a super being powered and boosted by Cosmic energy.

Without a host, it's just a big flaming bird but with a host to use it's power, you see why the Shi'ar are so scared of it...

@koays

but does it really need a host????? It talks to the host ie jean,hope, cuckoos. Also it burns away what doesnt work

when the phoenix force took part of jean's essence it created its own body in Jean's form. that version of the force which became the black queen & dark phoenix was very power, or atleast on the verge of becoming very powerful as it seemingly forgot it was actually just the force. had the force maintained knowledge that it wasnt really jean and weilded its powers to the full extent it would have been the most powerful but overall no phoenix weilder is more powerful than Jean and the force itself currently is limited without jean

@hopesummersforthefuture: it doesn't need a host. But it seems vulnerable without one.

@hopesummersforthefuture: It is powerful without a host, no doubt BUT needs to a host to be even more powerful....

@xspectre28: well said

ohhh thanks a lot for clearing that up for me guys :) since her power seems to fluctuate between hosts a lot that's why I'm a bit confuse whether phoenix is stronger without host or not

i think its a bit arrogant to state that the embodiment of Eternity would require a host to be even more powerful. More focussed perhaps... but its a cosmic entity... and its been shown on page to wipe out civilisations in it's path. Without a host. We saw it in AvX most recently... when the approaching Phoenix Force was obliterating planets and civilisations in its progress towards Earth.

Jean is now PART of the Phoenix Force. Her essence has joined with it. Removing her from it would be like taking the small piece that Rachel was holding for so long and separating from the greater whole. PF is weaker because of losing a portion, but its not limited at all significantly. (although, a reconstituted Jean would be a being comprised of/created from the PF, she would be more powerful than anything currently terrorising the 616-universe)

This

the phoenix's powers fluctuates.

I believe the phoenix force is powerful without the host... I think the host makes it weaker.. the power is so great that it corrupts it host... i believe jean turned evil and was black queen becuz that was the original story.. but editors and writers wanted jean back and thought how can we get away with her eating planets.. oh lets say the Phoenix made a clone.. people fear the phoenix... but scarlet witch just spoke her away... honestly they never spoke on the Phoenix force without one... i dont think.. so ill say its powerful without one

the phoenix force just lends its power to its host. the amount of power the phoenix lends differs per host.