Is Chuck Austen's X-Men as terrible as I heard?

  • 75 results
  • 1
  • 2
Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio

 
I'm a huge X-Men fan but didn't read their titles again until New X-Men. And even then I didn't read consistently until around Second Coming. I know Chuck's run is universally hated by X-fans. I have a friend that's a long time reader/fan who loved Austen's run. This boggles my mind, because most die hards I know have the same level of anathema towards him that Spider-Man fans have for Joe Quesada. So to all of you who read it I ask, was it all that bad? Was it bad at all. was Chucky boy just misunderstood? 

#1 Posted by zombietag (1494 posts) - - Show Bio

i havent read it but it seems like people hate him more than joe q. idk why either haha but its pretty bad. im surprised your friend said he liked it, thats a first ive heard

#2 Posted by Video_Martian (5645 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini: Don't read it.
#3 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@zombietag:  
The kicker is that he straight up and down hates Astonishing X-Men, even Whedon's acclaimed run. 
#4 Posted by zombietag (1494 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini said:
" @zombietag:  The kicker is that he straight up and down hates Astonishing X-Men, even Whedon's acclaimed run.  "
who? chuck dixon? thats pretty lame, but i have to say that creators opinions of books shouldnt affect whether or not you like their work. but i guess if you think they have bad judgement, it might be hard to read their stuff with an unbiased opinion
#5 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@zombietag said:
" @JonesDeini said:
" @zombietag:  The kicker is that he straight up and down hates Astonishing X-Men, even Whedon's acclaimed run.  "
who? chuck dixon? thats pretty lame, but i have to say that creators opinions of books shouldnt affect whether or not you like their work. but i guess if you think they have bad judgement, it might be hard to read their stuff with an unbiased opinion "
I think he meant his friend hates Astonishing.
#6 Posted by zombietag (1494 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @zombietag said:
" @JonesDeini said:
" @zombietag:  The kicker is that he straight up and down hates Astonishing X-Men, even Whedon's acclaimed run.  "
who? chuck dixon? thats pretty lame, but i have to say that creators opinions of books shouldnt affect whether or not you like their work. but i guess if you think they have bad judgement, it might be hard to read their stuff with an unbiased opinion "
I think he meant his friend hates Astonishing. "
oh. haha that makes more sense... *stupid*
#7 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked it. BUT it was the first X-Men comics that I ever read, I wasn't that familiar with the characters or the continuity.

Moderator
#8 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@zombietag: We all have those moments :P
#9 Posted by Ryonslaught (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini:
It had it's share of error BUT had the most accessible and human Juggernaut ever depicted in an x-men series and Northstar was used as more than just the token gay guy.
#10 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ryonslaught:  
People really, really hate his Juggy bangs She-Hulk thing. Doesn't bother me...makes sense in fact.
#11 Posted by Ryonslaught (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini: I'm always just amazed how many people have not even read his x-men run but jump on the hate bandwagon because of "Juggy bangs she's hulk" or some other crap! He at least tried to do character work while Craption just collects mutants like a pokemaniac. I guess cameo queens beat characterization as far as the modern x-men reader is concerned.
#12 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ryonslaught said:
" @JonesDeini: I'm always just amazed how many people have not even read his x-men run but jump on the hate bandwagon because of "Juggy bangs she's hulk" or some other crap! He at least tried to do character work while Craption just collects mutants like a pokemaniac. I guess cameo queens beat characterization as far as the modern x-men reader is concerned. "
...you're awesome. And I'm so stealing "Craption"
Moderator
#13 Posted by Jake Fury (18617 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you mean Chuck Austen?
#14 Posted by Ryonslaught (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress:  lol, Thanks....Craption is all yours ;)
#15 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury said:
" Do you mean Chuck Austen? "
That's who I've been talking about. :P 
 
@Ryonslaught: ^_^
Moderator
#16 Posted by SC (13108 posts) - - Show Bio

Chuck Dixon? X-Men? Uh what issues?

Moderator
#17 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC Fairly certain they're talking about Austen.
Moderator
#18 Posted by SC (13108 posts) - - Show Bio

I like him more than Fraction, I like him about as much as I liked Brubaker's (maybe a bit less) run. He tried going for character strong stories, but his characterization was pretty weak, and he basically delved into tired overplayed tropes and he messed around with some fundamentals of characters. Why take a fairly original, and unique, albeit character like Juggernaut and turn him into a generic bad guy gone good, Colossus stand in? Juggs was one of Marvels best villains for a really good reason. Have him appeal to new fans who never appreciated the original character? Ugh, plus so many of his plots... he really didn't do his research. For many NC fans, it was a clever and poignant twist he was mistaken for a demon, because looks can be deceiving, thats what the creator of the character intended, but yeah... another writer decides if he looks like a demon? His father must look like a demon. I guess iceman's father is Sub Zero now too.  
 
So much more just... the Draco. Some of the Husk Angel stuff was okay, but you know, *that* scene, sorta sours peoples opinion on the whole thing. His Stacy X was patchy too. There have been much better X-Writers. I liked his War Machine and Avengers more. 

Moderator
#19 Posted by SC (13108 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @SC Fairly certain they're talking about Austen. "
 
Oh yeah, I started assuming that as I typed...  
 
@SC said:
" I like him more than Fraction, I like him about as much as I liked Brubaker's (maybe a bit less) run. He tried going for character strong stories, but his characterization was pretty weak, and he basically delved into tired overplayed tropes and he messed around with some fundamentals of characters. Why take a fairly original, and unique, albeit character like Juggernaut and turn him into a generic bad guy gone good, Colossus stand in? Juggs was one of Marvels best villains for a really good reason. Have him appeal to new fans who never appreciated the original character? Ugh, plus so many of his plots... he really didn't do his research. For many NC fans, it was a clever and poignant twist he was mistaken for a demon, because looks can be deceiving, thats what the creator of the character intended, but yeah... another writer decides if he looks like a demon? His father must look like a demon. I guess iceman's father is Sub Zero now too.   So much more just... the Draco. Some of the Husk Angel stuff was okay, but you know, *that* scene, sorta sours peoples opinion on the whole thing. His Stacy X was patchy too. There have been much better X-Writers. I liked his War Machine and Avengers more.  "
lol  
 
Thanks though DH! *smile*
Moderator
#20 Edited by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:

" @Ryonslaught said:

" @JonesDeini: I'm always just amazed how many people have not even read his x-men run but jump on the hate bandwagon because of "Juggy bangs she's hulk" or some other crap! He at least tried to do character work while Craption just collects mutants like a pokemaniac. I guess cameo queens beat characterization as far as the modern x-men reader is concerned. "
...you're awesome. And I'm so stealing "Craption" "
Ditto, lady. Fraction has NO GRASP WHATSOEVER of the X-Men aside from Scott & Emma. I love the guy, really do. But he and Brubaker's X-Men stuff was definitely more down than up.  
 
@Jake Fury:  
Yes, yes I did now fixed lol. I realized that I put the wrong Chuck as I was at the shop today.
#21 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini said:
" @The Dark Huntress said:
" @Ryonslaught said:
" @JonesDeini: I'm always just amazed how many people have not even read his x-men run but jump on the hate bandwagon because of "Juggy bangs she's hulk" or some other crap! He at least tried to do character work while Craption just collects mutants like a pokemaniac. I guess cameo queens beat characterization as far as the modern x-men reader is concerned. "
...you're awesome. And I'm so stealing "Craption" "
Ditto, lady. Fraction has NO GRASP WHATSOEVER of the X-Men aside from Scott & Emma. I love the guy, really do. But he and Brubaker's X-Men stuff was definitely more down than up.  "
THAT is where you're wrong. I'm a diehard Emma fan and he's completely f*cked her over, he doesn't write her correctly at all. I'm pissed and I hate him (as much as somebody can hate somebody they don't even know) for it.  
 
Rise and Fall was Brubaker, right? I actually enjoyed that. 
Moderator
#22 Posted by Jake Fury (18617 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini:
LOL easy mistake. 
 
I didn't really hate Austen's run. The stuff with Juggernaut and Sammy was pretty interesting. Draco was pretty good too.
#23 Posted by SC (13108 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress:  Did you read it as TPB, or ongoing? It reads way better as Trade. (Rise and Fall)  
 
 
Anyway, back to Chuck, even though he has and was critical of fans, even he criticized himself about misploting and mischaracterizing characters. I mean, I admire him for that too lol, I wish cerian other writers would take his example and follow suit... (lol) 
Moderator
#24 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress:  
During 5 Lights (which I stopped after 3 issues) he TOTALLY butchered Emma. Overall I think he does a solid job with her, not great, but certainly not terrible. I think the way he handled her during Quarantine was good, though I honestly think Gillen had more to do with that than Fraction. 
#25 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: TPB. I got it for like...18 dollars in brand new condition. ^_^
Moderator
#26 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini said:
" @The Dark Huntress:  During 5 Lights (which I stopped after 3 issues) he TOTALLY butchered Emma. Overall I think he does a solid job with her, not great, but certainly not terrible. I think the way he handled her during Quarantine was good, though I honestly think Gillen had more to do with that than Fraction.  "
I'm gonna disagree with you on that one. He's been writing her not as Cyclops's partner, but as his subordinate. As the over-emotional housewife who just sits there and takes orders. That's not Emma at all. 
Moderator
#27 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
" @The Dark Huntress:  Did you read it as TPB, or ongoing? It reads way better as Trade. (Rise and Fall)    Anyway, back to Chuck, even though he has and was critical of fans, even he criticized himself about misploting and mischaracterizing characters. I mean, I admire him for that too lol, I wish cerian other writers would take his example and follow suit... (lol)  "
Joe Quesada...Judd Winick...Grant Morrison...
#28 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @JonesDeini said:
" @The Dark Huntress:  During 5 Lights (which I stopped after 3 issues) he TOTALLY butchered Emma. Overall I think he does a solid job with her, not great, but certainly not terrible. I think the way he handled her during Quarantine was good, though I honestly think Gillen had more to do with that than Fraction.  "
I'm gonna disagree with you on that one. He's been writing her not as Cyclops's partner, but as his subordinate. As the over-emotional housewife who just sits there and takes orders. That's not Emma at all.  "
Actually, I think he's wrote her as an icy manipulative bitch (at his worst) lately. Emma's always had an edge and a darkside and can be cold and logical. But at points he's written her as a bitch on wheels just for the sake of it. And he's overplayed her sexuality and "feminine charms" too much for my liking (and Greg Lands cheesecake doesn't help reduce this). Emma has and will use her beauty and sexuality to achieve her goals, but that's not her first resort. Can't tell you how much I cringed when I read the issue during Five Lights when she jet sets around the globe basically being an escort for Tony and Namor...sigh. Her character's slowly being redeemed in Uncanny though. Hopefully Gillen continues that trend. 
#29 Posted by SC (13108 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @SC: TPB. I got it for like...18 dollars in brand new condition. ^_^ "
 
Nice! Most peoples issue with Bru, was his arc was way too decompressed. It focused on a small cast of well, sorta B-listers. Nothing wrong with that, but it was such a long arc, Vulcan was still pretty unpopular, Bru killed off Banshee because he admitted he didn't think anyone would care, and he even had to retract he didn't understand the Omega system. TPB solves the whole time issues, plus your a good reader, you don't care about a characters popularity to enjoy them.  
 
Anyway, way good deal! I liked Havok, Polaris and Warpath got some TLC. liked his Extremist arc a bit more...  
 
@JonesDeini said:
" Joe Quesada...Judd Winick...Grant Morrison... "
 
LOL, cool. ^_^
Moderator
#30 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC:  
I want Havoc BACK FROM SPACE!!!  
 
At the end of the day I think the big issue with Brubaker/Fraction's X-men is that they are fundamentally character and not team writers. 
#31 Posted by SC (13108 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini: Now that Fraction is off, so do I my friend. I was in two minds about it previously, because I was concerned he he might be written.  Havok supposedly should be back by end of yeah (Polaris is suppose to show up in Legacy before then...)
 
Thats a fairly proven observation. Bru on Secret Avengers has been a bit better. Plot picked up a little, team balance is still off though. 
Moderator
#32 Posted by Ryonslaught (1247 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @JonesDeini said:
" @The Dark Huntress:  During 5 Lights (which I stopped after 3 issues) he TOTALLY butchered Emma. Overall I think he does a solid job with her, not great, but certainly not terrible. I think the way he handled her during Quarantine was good, though I honestly think Gillen had more to do with that than Fraction.  "
I'm gonna disagree with you on that one. He's been writing her not as Cyclops's partner, but as his subordinate. As the over-emotional housewife who just sits there and takes orders. That's not Emma at all.  "
Where have you been all my life? XD
 
@JonesDeini said:
" @SC:  I want Havoc BACK FROM SPACE!!!   At the end of the day I think the big issue with Brubaker/Fraction's X-men is that they are fundamentally character and not team writers.  "

Yup Craption def works better on a singular character....he is clueless about how to write a team book!
Brubaker? I liked his short run....it moved the universe dynamic and brought Thunderbird into the mainstream x-men cast. I'm not holding my breath that after Craption leaves things will get much better though :(
 
Big shake ups need to take place! Not just "oh we follow wolvie" and "so and so follow scott" A writer needs to recognize that The X-men is NOT SCOTT AND WOLVERINE! Emma Frost and Storm have lead and are strong enough to lead the mutant nation! Storm needs to move away from being token black to the queen/goddess/alpha female she once was Emma needs characterization which harkens back to Grant and Whedon until then the x-books are going nowhere soon!
#33 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@Ryonslaught:  
True, I still enjoy them from time to time but fully recognize they're not nearly what they could be. And now that I've thought about it I must say that Emma's being Scott's do girl bothers me. Scott having 90% of the say doesn't work for me. They're dynamic worked best when their control was 50/50. 
#34 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini said:
" @Ryonslaught:  True, I still enjoy them from time to time but fully recognize they're not nearly what they could be. And now that I've thought about it I must say that Emma's being Scott's do girl bothers me. Scott having 90% of the say doesn't work for me. They're dynamic worked best when their control was 50/50.  "
Yes. This I agree with. They're most interesting when they're playing off each other, equal footing.  
 
@Ryonslaught said:
" @The Dark Huntress said:
" @JonesDeini said:
" @The Dark Huntress:  During 5 Lights (which I stopped after 3 issues) he TOTALLY butchered Emma. Overall I think he does a solid job with her, not great, but certainly not terrible. I think the way he handled her during Quarantine was good, though I honestly think Gillen had more to do with that than Fraction.  "
I'm gonna disagree with you on that one. He's been writing her not as Cyclops's partner, but as his subordinate. As the over-emotional housewife who just sits there and takes orders. That's not Emma at all.  "
Where have you been all my life? XD
 
@JonesDeini said:
" @SC:  I want Havoc BACK FROM SPACE!!!   At the end of the day I think the big issue with Brubaker/Fraction's X-men is that they are fundamentally character and not team writers.  "
Yup Craption def works better on a singular character....he is clueless about how to write a team book! Brubaker? I liked his short run....it moved the universe dynamic and brought Thunderbird into the mainstream x-men cast. I'm not holding my breath that after Craption leaves things will get much better though :(  Big shake ups need to take place! Not just "oh we follow wolvie" and "so and so follow scott" A writer needs to recognize that The X-men is NOT SCOTT AND WOLVERINE! Emma Frost and Storm have lead and are strong enough to lead the mutant nation! Storm needs to move away from being token black to the queen/goddess/alpha female she once was Emma needs characterization which harkens back to Grant and Whedon until then the x-books are going nowhere soon! "
Man after my own heart. 
Moderator
#35 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress:  
I love how this conversation has totally veered off from Chuck Austen. I'll take that as a sign that his run was so bad that nobody wants to even discuss it :P    
#36 Posted by Alternaut (484 posts) - - Show Bio

The Draco is quite possibly the most horrible X-Men story I've ever read. Ever.

#37 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alternaut:  
Wow...that's a bold claim lol
#38 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alternaut said:
" The Draco is quite possibly the most horrible X-Men story I've ever read. Ever. "
Reallyyyyyyyyyyyy?
Moderator
#39 Posted by Alternaut (484 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini said:
" @Alternaut:  Wow...that's a bold claim lol "
Name something that was worse. None of the crap Fraction has done even comes close to how bad the Draco was. Just saying. 
 
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @Alternaut said:
" The Draco is quite possibly the most horrible X-Men story I've ever read. Ever. "
Reallyyyyyyyyyyyy? "
Yes, really.
#40 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alternaut: I've never read it. Explain to me what was so bad about it. 
Moderator
#41 Posted by Alternaut (484 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
" @Alternaut: I've never read it. Explain to me what was so bad about it.  "
I thought you read all of Austen's stuff. 
 
Basically Azazel comes to Earth to impregnate Mystique to breed a teleporter to...come to Earth. 
 
Make sense of that sentence. You can't. That's actually what happens in the Draco along with the horrible portrayal of many of the X-Men. 
 
I'll be the first to admit that I came into the X-Men when Austen was writing them [though when he was writing X-Men, not Uncanny X-Men during the second Xorn story arc] and kind of enjoyed his work on THAT title even though when you compare it to Astonishing which was running around the same time [which I didn't really get my hands on until I was knee-deep in Austen's work] it is absolute garbage. I would happily feast on Fraction's garbage if I had to choose between the two. 
#42 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alternaut: Draco may be the only thing of his that I didn't read. Couldn't get my hands on a well-priced trade of it.  
 
O_o I'm good at making things sound like they make some sort of sense but that....yeah...... 
 
Austen's run was some of the first stuff that I read and I had no idea why people didn't like it until I read Morrison's and Whedon's runs and understood what true characterization really is. It's why I'm so worry people starting with Fraction's run. 
Moderator
#43 Posted by doordoor123 (3721 posts) - - Show Bio
@JonesDeini said:
"  I'm a huge X-Men fan but didn't read their titles again until New X-Men. And even then I didn't read consistently until around Second Coming. I know Chuck's run is universally hated by X-fans. I have a friend that's a long time reader/fan who loved Austen's run. This boggles my mind, because most die hards I know have the same level of anathema towards him that Spider-Man fans have for Joe Quesada. So to all of you who read it I ask, was it all that bad? Was it bad at all. was Chucky boy just misunderstood?  "
Not gunna lie... i kind of want to read it now.
#44 Posted by Jake Fury (18617 posts) - - Show Bio

 
I thought the entire point of Draco was that Azazel could only stay on Earth for brief periods and fathered all of his children to create a permanent gateway to Earth? 

#45 Posted by Alternaut (484 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress: Like you, Austen WAS the first X-Men stuff I read save the material I had as a child which I couldn't comprehend at the mere age of 10. Not because it was too hard but because I was a retard and just liked the really pretty pictures drawn by Pacheco and Bachalo rather than the actual words written by Lobdell. So I wouldn't worry about people who come in during Fraction's run, because if they come in enjoying absolute garbage which from a personal standpoint isn't what Fraction's run is--but at the same time I will say it's close to being garbage, then when they get their hands on something worthwhile and actually substantial--or get their hands on classic material they'll gain a whole new appreciation for it. 
 
That's just what I think. 
 
And I think Austen sucks. 
 
And please, PLEASE do not buy the Draco. I'd much rather you burn that money in your backyard at night and watch it burn...that would be much more satisfying, trust me. Not even buying the book and burning it would be as satisfying...
#46 Posted by Alternaut (484 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury said:
"  I thought the entire point of Draco was that Azazel could only stay on Earth for brief periods and fathered all of his children to create a permanent gateway to Earth?  "
I'd have to re-read it, but I don't want to. Don't make me, please. ): 
 
One thing that really pissed me off was Iceman's willingness to kill that one chick rather than reconstitute himself from something else. Like people's pee. That's one thing that irked me...it's one thing that seemingly stuck with Iceman's character after Austen's run, too. 
#47 Posted by Jake Fury (18617 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alternaut said:
"@Jake Fury said:
"  I thought the entire point of Draco was that Azazel could only stay on Earth for brief periods and fathered all of his children to create a permanent gateway to Earth?  "
I'd have to re-read it, but I don't want to. Don't make me, please. ):  One thing that really pissed me off was Iceman's willingness to kill that one chick rather than reconstitute himself from something else. Like people's pee. That's one thing that irked me...it's one thing that seemingly stuck with Iceman's character after Austen's run, too. "
LOL 
Been awhile since I've read it so its kind of foggy for me.  
#48 Posted by SC (13108 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alternaut:  @The Dark Huntress:  
 
Two words... oh and when I mean two words, I mean two male organs of a particular type, and how Nightcrawler has two... well, "three tails" 0_o 
 
(lol) Austen you crazy dreamer... 
Moderator
#49 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alternaut: I've always been an art > story girl (LOL. I say always like I've been reading comics for more than 1 1/2 years). There are few exceptions to that rule. Not a huge Bachalo fan, I like more..realistic? looking stuff. I tend to veer towards painted and digital art (Mike Choi, Danny Luvisi, Adi Granov etc). Fair point.  
 
I agree....I'd say that I dislike Fraction more, though.  
 
I swear to you that I won't lol. 
Moderator
#50 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
" @Alternaut:  @The Dark Huntress:   Two words... oh and when I mean two words, I mean two male organs of a particular type, and how Nightcrawler has two... well, "three tails" 0_o  (lol) Austen you crazy dreamer...  "
O_______O
Moderator

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.