In what way is Cyclops Extreme? Is Hope now a Tratior?

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#1 Posted by BewilderingBeing (69 posts) - - Show Bio

I am very confused by some of the moderators blog posts on the AvsX series. In the recent Wolverine vs Xmen the reviewer at comic vine said that

"It's definitely a little bit strange to see Rachel's conversation with a brainwashed Cyclops. If you read the INFINITE last week, then you know that Scott has been consumed by the Phoenix Force, and that it's taken over his mind. It's even stranger to see him telling Rachel that the Phoenix Force loves her. So bizarre. "

He mentions that AvsX infinity shows how out of control Cyclops is, but what I took from that issue is how Jean reminded him of how to STAY in control. She also reminded him never to forget his humanity. How is this an example of him loosing control or being Extreme? If anything that issue seemed to have grounded him. How is he brainwashed? Even The ghost of Jean admitted he was in control at least for the moment. As far as the Phoenix saying it loved Rachel, Rachel asked it a direct question about how it felt about her. It just answered the question. A little strange but I wouldn't consider answering a question as "bizarre".

The Avengers logic seems to be that the Phoenix 5 are too powerful and will eventually do something bad. Therefore they have to preemptively stop them. By that Logic, Thor, Hope, Storm, Magneto, Professor X, Rachel, etc should all be destroyed/apprehended. After all, they are all capable of killing most people on the planet and you can't be too safe right? The Avengers broke into Utopia, assaulted the students and attempted to kidnap Hope. All with the intention of using her as some weapon against the Phoenix 5. What is surprising is that Hope willingly went with them Knowing this! Not only that, she went with the one person responsible for the decimation of 90% of her species (Scarlet Witch). Ever since the Phoenix possessed the team, Hope has been acting like a spoiled brat who gave up her toy only to find out someone else is making better use of it. She spent all her time sulking at Utopia since she no longer served any purpose and now she is actively going against the X-men? Unbelievable.

Even Beast the biggest pacifist there is who was fully on board with the original plan to apprehend Hope says there is no reason to believe the Phoenix 5 are doing anything wrong.

The Avengers fears are a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more than Avengers try and preemptively stop the P5, the more dangerous the P5 appear to be. If the Avengers left them alone who is to say there would EVER be any problem?

#2 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7303 posts) - - Show Bio

Hope is just an idiot, just as idiotic as Wanda is for believing that silly little vision.

#3 Edited by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@BewilderingBeing said:

I am very confused by some of the moderators blog posts on the AvsX series. In the recent Wolverine vs Xmen the reviewer at comic vine said that

"It's definitely a little bit strange to see Rachel's conversation with a brainwashed Cyclops. If you read the INFINITE last week, then you know that Scott has been consumed by the Phoenix Force, and that it's taken over his mind. It's even stranger to see him telling Rachel that the Phoenix Force loves her. So bizarre. "

He mentions that AvsX infinity shows how out of control Cyclops is, but what I took from that issue is how Jean reminded him of how to STAY in control. She also reminded him never to forget his humanity. How is this an example of him loosing control or being Extreme? If anything that issue seemed to have grounded him. How is he brainwashed? Even The ghost of Jean admitted he was in control at least for the moment. As far as the Phoenix saying it loved Rachel, Rachel asked it a direct question about how it felt about her. It just answered the question. A little strange but I wouldn't consider answering a question as "bizarre".

The Avengers logic seems to be that the Phoenix 5 are too powerful and will eventually do something bad. Therefore they have to preemptively stop them. By that Logic, Thor, Hope, Storm, Magneto, Professor X, Rachel, etc should all be destroyed/apprehended. After all, they are all capable of killing most people on the planet and you can't be too safe right? The Avengers broke into Utopia, assaulted the students and attempted to kidnap Hope. All with the intention of using her as some weapon against the Phoenix 5. What is surprising is that Hope willingly went with them Knowing t his! Not only that, she went with the one person responsible for the decimation of 90% of her species (Scarlet Witch). Ever since the Phoenix possessed the team, Hope has been acting like a spoiled brat who gave up her toy only to find out someone else is making better use of it. She spent all her time sulking at Utopia since she no longer served any purpose and now she is actively going against the X-men? Unbelievable.

Even Beast the biggest pacifist there is who was fully on board with the original plan to apprehend Hope says there is no reason to believe the Phoenix 5 are doing anything wrong.

The Avengers fears are a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more than Avengers try and preemptively stop the P5, the more dangerous the P5 appear to be. If the Avengers left them alone who is to say there would EVER be any problem?

saying and showing are 2 entirely different things. Just bear in mind who makes up the P5 and whether the Avengers persisted or not, I believe it would turn out bad regardless. what I got out of that infinite comic was not jean teaching cause she wasn't doing that but telling him how it felt for her and letting him know what the PF does and how it effects you. No where saying how to STAY in control but what the PF does and not knowing how it exactly works, just simply that it amplifies through emotions. Not losing perspective or yourself and in cykes case his emotional memory that defines him of all his struggles. Jean points out to scott about using Moon Dust out his memory to create her when Scott asks if he still has his humanity (rethinking how everything seems small to him even petty) the ending we see scott flying back to earth with moon dust in his hand. Arguably that can be viewed or represented as bits of whatever left of his humanity is left in him he's holding on tight to but is slowly slipping away(hence the wake up call) keeping as a reminder.

In the end the Avengers are being used as the scapegoat for the P5 when they do lose control.

#4 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers SUCK!

X-Men rule!

#5 Posted by Dman1366 (801 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

Avengers SUCK!

X-Men rule!

I like this guy. Also, what the hell is Infinite? never heard of this book before. is it new?

#6 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dman1366 said:

@John Valentine said:

Avengers SUCK!

X-Men rule!

I like this guy. Also, what the hell is Infinite? never heard of this book before. is it new?

It was an online comic released last Wednesday (20th June). Basically just had Cyclops going to the moon, where Jean initially sacrificed herself at the end of the original DPS, and making a dust construct of Jean and talking to it, whilst wondering if he was still human/in control of the Phoenix. The conclusion of this was that he needed to hold onto his humanity such that he does not lose control of the Phoenix, even though he feels it slipping away.

#7 Posted by Dman1366 (801 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

@Dman1366 said:

@John Valentine said:

Avengers SUCK!

X-Men rule!

I like this guy. Also, what the hell is Infinite? never heard of this book before. is it new?

It was an online comic released last Wednesday (20th June). Basically just had Cyclops going to the moon, where Jean initially sacrificed herself at the end of the original DPS, and making a dust construct of Jean and talking to it, whilst wondering if he was still human/in control of the Phoenix. The conclusion of this was that he needed to hold onto his humanity such that he does not lose control of the Phoenix, even though he feels it slipping away.

hmmmm i havn't dived too much into online comics. is it worth getting? do you just get it off the Marvel site?

#8 Posted by joshmightbe (24763 posts) - - Show Bio

Dealings with the Phoenix always end bad, every damn time it comes to Earth bad things happen to everyone involved, The Avengers saying the Phoenix's presence will end badly isn't illogical, its a sign that they've paid more attention to the past than the Xmen have apparently. Cyclops should know better than anyone on Earth that no could can come of trying to use the Phoenix. The last 100% good outcome from the Phoenix involvement was D'ken being defeated everything else has ended in an at best a Pyrrhic victory surrounded in death and destruction. Why wouldn't the Avengers want to prevent that

#9 Posted by KingofMadCows (345 posts) - - Show Bio

The Avengers have some very legitimate concerns but the way in which they're trying to resolve the situation is incredibly douchey and idiotic.

The mutants have just survived several genocide attempts against them and their race is close to extinction. How can anyone expect them to be completely objective and not let their emotions affect them? Trying to kidnap Hope and attacking the X-Men was just the absolute worst thing they could have done and only exacerbated Cyclops's paranoia, especially considering how Cyclops had just saved them from being killed by Cable.

#10 Posted by BewilderingBeing (69 posts) - - Show Bio

@KingofMadCows said:

The Avengers have some very legitimate concerns but the way in which they're trying to resolve the situation is incredibly douchey and idiotic.

The mutants have just survived several genocide attempts against them and their race is close to extinction. How can anyone expect them to be completely objective and not let their emotions affect them? Trying to kidnap Hope and attacking the X-Men was just the absolute worst thing they could have done and only exacerbated Cyclops's paranoia, especially considering how Cyclops had just saved them from being killed by Cable.

I completely Agree!! X2! I understand their concerns I am not saying they aren't legitimate but the Avengers by all accounts broke the law.

Breaking and Entering, Assault, Kidnapping I mean seriously? Any action taken against them seems perfectly justified.

One thing that strikes me about the Phoenix this time around is that it seems to be motivated by the decimation. It mentioned as it appeared that the huge reduction of the mutant population was one of its motivating factors. So who knows it sounds like Cyclops was right at least so far

#11 Edited by PhoenixoftheTides (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with your critique. Overall, though, this whole event seems like it will not have permanent effects which undermines the threat humanity feels with amiable mutant overlords to me, as a reader. I'd actually like to see the Marvel Universe operate for two or three years with the Phoenix 5 in control and Earth approaching a utopia. I think that's more interesting than what they were doing before.

Then again, it's hard to avoid looking like a hypocrit in the Marvel Universe. The only characters that have stable personalities are the minor ones that aren't painted into every major "event" that comes along.

#12 Posted by KainScion (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

x-men UBER DOUCHES and hopefully most of them will die, first one being cyclops. I HAVE SPOKEN!!

#13 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

No, Hope is just being a dumb annoying teenage girl.

@KainScion said:

x-men UBER DOUCHES and hopefully most of them will die, first one being cyclops. I HAVE SPOKEN!!

YOU DARE SPEAK ILL OF X-MEN!!! THOU ASS SHALL BE KICKED!

#14 Posted by KainScion (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_29 said:

No, Hope is just being a dumb annoying teenage girl.

@KainScion said:

x-men UBER DOUCHES and hopefully most of them will die, first one being cyclops. I HAVE SPOKEN!!

YOU DARE SPEAK ILL OF X-MEN!!! THOU ASS SHALL BE KICKED!

THE X-MEN HAVE BEEN ON THE DOUCHE WAY EVER SINCE UNCANNY X-MEN 1 MAYBE EVEN SOONER!!! NO AMOUNT OF FAN LOVE CAN HIDE IT ANYMORE!

#15 Edited by Osian2 (455 posts) - - Show Bio

@BewilderingBeing said:

I am very confused by some of the moderators blog posts on the AvsX series. In the recent Wolverine vs Xmen the reviewer at comic vine said that

"It's definitely a little bit strange to see Rachel's conversation with a brainwashed Cyclops. If you read the INFINITE last week, then you know that Scott has been consumed by the Phoenix Force, and that it's taken over his mind. It's even stranger to see him telling Rachel that the Phoenix Force loves her. So bizarre. "

He mentions that AvsX infinity shows how out of control Cyclops is, but what I took from that issue is how Jean reminded him of how to STAY in control. She also reminded him never to forget his humanity. How is this an example of him loosing control or being Extreme? If anything that issue seemed to have grounded him. How is he brainwashed? Even The ghost of Jean admitted he was in control at least for the moment. As far as the Phoenix saying it loved Rachel, Rachel asked it a direct question about how it felt about her. It just answered the question. A little strange but I wouldn't consider answering a question as "bizarre".

The Avengers logic seems to be that the Phoenix 5 are too powerful and will eventually do something bad. Therefore they have to preemptively stop them. By that Logic, Thor, Hope, Storm, Magneto, Professor X, Rachel, etc should all be destroyed/apprehended. After all, they are all capable of killing most people on the planet and you can't be too safe right? The Avengers broke into Utopia, assaulted the students and attempted to kidnap Hope. All with the intention of using her as some weapon against the Phoenix 5. What is surprising is that Hope willingly went with them Knowing this! Not only that, she went with the one person responsible for the decimation of 90% of her species (Scarlet Witch). Ever since the Phoenix possessed the team, Hope has been acting like a spoiled brat who gave up her toy only to find out someone else is making better use of it. She spent all her time sulking at Utopia since she no longer served any purpose and now she is actively going against the X-men? Unbelievable.

Even Beast the biggest pacifist there is who was fully on board with the original plan to apprehend Hope says there is no reason to believe the Phoenix 5 are doing anything wrong.

The Avengers fears are a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more than Avengers try and preemptively stop the P5, the more dangerous the P5 appear to be. If the Avengers left them alone who is to say there would EVER be any problem?

IMO the infinite issue showed that Cyclops hasn't lost control, he's aware that his humanity is slipping and through his conversation with Jean he's realised that he needs to stay focused. If anything this shows that out of the five he is the most in control and he is actually trying to prevent losing control.

Instead of planning on ways to kill the five they should instead be working alongside them and trying to "prevent" them turning dark. Everything the Avengers are doing right now will only put pressure on the five making it more likely that they will turn. Attacking their home, assaulting teenage mutants and kidnapping Hope (the messiah) who Scott promised Cable he would make sure the Avengers didn't take. On top of that they left with the Scarlet Witch the one who depowered 99% of Mutants in the first place and is the reason that Scott was so adamant that the Phoenix came to help. They kidnapped Hope for the sole reason of using her as a way to find out how defeat the five, it's only logical that Scott would try and stop this. It's not Scott being evil, it's Scott not wanting to die.

The Avengers are being total hypocrites. When the x-men and Avengers met to discuss how to deal with Wanda, when Emma suggested killing her Captain America wouldn't have any of it saying that there is "always another way". Wanda then decimated the entire mutant population and the Avengers never bothered to lift a finger to help with the fallout. Now we get a situation where the P5 are possibly dangerous but now Cap is all for killing them.

Beast is all over the place in this event. In AVX 6 he went against the avengers in their plan to kill the five but in the recent WATX he was with them again and when Bobby asked if Hank and him could talk it out, Hank shot him in the face WTF!?

#16 Posted by XsPectre28 (739 posts) - - Show Bio

im riding with the X-men all the way even thou i disagree with the PF5..... i still believe a FULL BACK STORY on what has been going on with the phoenix ever since it first remanifested in Jean Grey in "New X-men" why did it return in endsong(how was it weakened to the point it came for jean & scott)???? why of all ppl attach to the Cuckoos????? why did it leave the cuckoos, rachel, & korvus & why did rachel say not now mom???? WHY THE HELL THE FORCE IS LINKED TO THE IRON FIST, WHY ARE NON OMEGA LEVEL MUTANTS ABLE TO WEILD THE FORCE AT ALL

#17 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@XsPectre28 said:

im riding with the X-men all the way even thou i disagree with the PF5..... i still believe a FULL BACK STORY on what has been going on with the phoenix ever since it first remanifested in Jean Grey in "New X-men" why did it return in endsong(how was it weakened to the point it came for jean & scott)???? why of all ppl attach to the Cuckoos????? why did it leave the cuckoos, rachel, & korvus & why did rachel say not now mom???? WHY THE HELL THE FORCE IS LINKED TO THE IRON FIST, WHY ARE NON OMEGA LEVEL MUTANTS ABLE TO WEILD THE FORCE AT ALL

Your asking all the right questions that nobody is acknowledging or are purposefully overlooking!

#18 Posted by jcbart (341 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Dealings with the Phoenix always end bad, every damn time it comes to Earth bad things happen to everyone involved, The Avengers saying the Phoenix's presence will end badly isn't illogical, its a sign that they've paid more attention to the past than the Xmen have apparently. Cyclops should know better than anyone on Earth that no could can come of trying to use the Phoenix. The last 100% good outcome from the Phoenix involvement was D'ken being defeated everything else has ended in an at best a Pyrrhic victory surrounded in death and destruction. Why wouldn't the Avengers want to prevent that

A) The Phoenix has been split into five segments, which could help the individuals control the power, B) Rachel was a Phoenix host for years and nothing really bad happened to her, The Avengers didn't knock on her doorstep, C) Both Colossus and Magik (especially) have been host to powers greater than their awareness, Cyclops has iron will and even kept secrets from both Jean Grey and Charles and Emma (he willingly let her in). Only Namor and possibly Emma are weak links and potential threats.

Basically, The Avengers know they're wrong, but their principles are too stubborn to just let the Phoenix Five solve Earthly problems, so in order to prevent a fiery inferno, they're doing things that are going to lead to a fiery inferno. As the OP stated, it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

#19 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (6028 posts) - - Show Bio
@XsPectre28 said:

im riding with the X-men all the way even thou i disagree with the PF5..... i still believe a FULL BACK STORY on what has been going on with the phoenix ever since it first remanifested in Jean Grey in "New X-men" why did it return in endsong(how was it weakened to the point it came for jean & scott)???? why of all ppl attach to the Cuckoos????? why did it leave the cuckoos, rachel, & korvus & why did rachel say not now mom???? WHY THE HELL THE FORCE IS LINKED TO THE IRON FIST, WHY ARE NON OMEGA LEVEL MUTANTS ABLE TO WEILD THE FORCE AT ALL

I agree! I've always found the explanations about the Phoenix Force to be all over the place.  First, it was implied that only omega level mutants can harness the powers of the Phoenix Force and now non omega level mutants are harnessing the power? They didn't even really explained about how this was possible.
#20 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@jcbart said:

@joshmightbe said:

Dealings with the Phoenix always end bad, every damn time it comes to Earth bad things happen to everyone involved, The Avengers saying the Phoenix's presence will end badly isn't illogical, its a sign that they've paid more attention to the past than the Xmen have apparently. Cyclops should know better than anyone on Earth that no could can come of trying to use the Phoenix. The last 100% good outcome from the Phoenix involvement was D'ken being defeated everything else has ended in an at best a Pyrrhic victory surrounded in death and destruction. Why wouldn't the Avengers want to prevent that

A) The Phoenix has been split into five segments, which could help the individuals control the power, B) Rachel was a Phoenix host for years and nothing really bad happened to her, The Avengers didn't knock on her doorstep, C) Both Colossus and Magik (especially) have been host to powers greater than their awareness, Cyclops has iron will and even kept secrets from both Jean Grey and Charles and Emma (he willingly let her in). Only Namor and possibly Emma are weak links and potential threats.

Basically, The Avengers know they're wrong, but their principles are too stubborn to just let the Phoenix Five solve Earthly problems, so in order to prevent a fiery inferno, they're doing things that are going to lead to a fiery inferno. As the OP stated, it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Actually several things did bad happen with her, but most either happen in space or during the time caper saga with Excalibur. With that being said it's kind of hard to knock on someones door step if they are cross time parallel worlds/universes and in space as well. :p

Colossus with the cytorak since he's had in in UXM has shown him losing control even storm on her recon team during the war machines arc had to stop colossus preemptively so he wouldn't lose control.

Marvel is gonna use these aspects about the characters to tap into to drive out these darker elements with the help of their new scapegoats the Avengers.

#21 Posted by MarvelGrey (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@XsPectre28 said:

im riding with the X-men all the way even thou i disagree with the PF5..... i still believe a FULL BACK STORY on what has been going on with the phoenix ever since it first remanifested in Jean Grey in "New X-men" why did it return in endsong(how was it weakened to the point it came for jean & scott)???? why of all ppl attach to the Cuckoos????? why did it leave the cuckoos, rachel, & korvus & why did rachel say not now mom???? WHY THE HELL THE FORCE IS LINKED TO THE IRON FIST, WHY ARE NON OMEGA LEVEL MUTANTS ABLE TO WEILD THE FORCE AT ALL

She said not now mom because Jean was doing Phoenix work (i think they called it that) by collecting the fragments of the Phoenix.

I'd assume the same thing that happened to Rachel the same thing happened to the Cuckoos.

And hell after all the crap mutants have gotten from the Sentinels to Genosha and M-Day would we expect anyone to act less cautious and have a brand new survival plan?

The Avengers hate mutants that aren't on their side.

#22 Posted by The Stegman (26056 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops is acting like a over zealous religious nutbag and I bet, I guarantee, his whole Phoenix power thing will come back to bite him and the world in the butt.

#23 Posted by Yurtigo (17 posts) - - Show Bio

Just kill them all Cyclops :D

#24 Posted by oraclefyre (936 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree about the non-omega level Mutants thing. Emma couldn't wield it, now she can. Is it because it's split in five, it's able to be sustain longer, before going nuts?

#25 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7303 posts) - - Show Bio

@oraclefyre said:

I agree about the non-omega level Mutants thing. Emma couldn't wield it, now she can. Is it because it's split in five, it's able to be sustain longer, before going nuts?

That's a vaild explanation.

#26 Posted by BewilderingBeing (69 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

Cyclops is acting like a over zealous religious nutbag and I bet, I guarantee, his whole Phoenix power thing will come back to bite him and the world in the butt.

Since when has cyclops been religious? some of you guys pull stuff right out of your backside

#27 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@BewilderingBeing said:

@The Stegman said:

Cyclops is acting like a over zealous religious nutbag and I bet, I guarantee, his whole Phoenix power thing will come back to bite him and the world in the butt.

Since when has cyclops been religious? some of you guys pull stuff right out of your backside

He's not saying that cyke is religious that his actions are similar to those nutbag religious cult leaders

#28 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (4178 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

Avengers SUCK!

X-Men rule!

agreed but the avegers will win because they dont want to make captain america look bad

plus it was funny when iron man and captain america fought in civil war

#29 Posted by BewilderingBeing (69 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hareil0079 said:

@BewilderingBeing said:

@The Stegman said:

Cyclops is acting like a over zealous religious nutbag and I bet, I guarantee, his whole Phoenix power thing will come back to bite him and the world in the butt.

Since when has cyclops been religious? some of you guys pull stuff right out of your backside

He's not saying that cyke is religious that his actions are similar to those nutbag religious cult leaders

Again how so?? I just don't get it.. what has he done that has been so extreme? A question that is still not be answered yet many still insist that he is a total loon.

#30 Posted by oraclefyre (936 posts) - - Show Bio

Read X-Men Legacy, and the X-Men are going to turn on the Phoenix 5. It's obvious from my point of view and a couple of preview covers, such as an upcoming Wolverine and the X-Men cover.

So yeah, a team up between between the Avengers and X-Men will happen to bring down the Phoenix 5. I think.

#31 Edited by TheThe (1760 posts) - - Show Bio

@KainScion said:

x-men UBER DOUCHES and hopefully most of them will die, first one being cyclops. I HAVE SPOKEN!!

I second that, but only for Cyclops lol.

#32 Posted by Osian2 (455 posts) - - Show Bio

@oraclefyre said:

Read X-Men Legacy, and the X-Men are going to turn on the Phoenix 5. It's obvious from my point of view and a couple of preview covers, such as an upcoming Wolverine and the X-Men cover.

So yeah, a team up between between the Avengers and X-Men will happen to bring down the Phoenix 5. I think.

There seems to be a hell of a lot of traitors in this event lol.

#33 Edited by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@oraclefyre said:

Read X-Men Legacy, and the X-Men are going to turn on the Phoenix 5. It's obvious from my point of view and a couple of preview covers, such as an upcoming Wolverine and the X-Men cover.

So yeah, a team up between between the Avengers and X-Men will happen to bring down the Phoenix 5. I think.

Check out the recent previews on Comic Book Resources.com

@BewilderingBeing said:

@Hareil0079 said:

@BewilderingBeing said:

@The Stegman said:

Cyclops is acting like a over zealous religious nutbag and I bet, I guarantee, his whole Phoenix power thing will come back to bite him and the world in the butt.

Since when has cyclops been religious? some of you guys pull stuff right out of your backside

He's not saying that cyke is religious that his actions are similar to those nutbag religious cult leaders

Again how so?? I just don't get it.. what has he done that has been so extreme? A question that is still not be answered yet many still insist that he is a total loon.

Rallying, hunting, and imprisoning the Avengers. (granted there actions really doesn't go against this but after reading the previews for AvX7 and UXM15 on Comicbookresources.com he's pretty much did what I thought he was going to do. Hide the fact Hope left voluntarily of her own accord with the Avengers and claiming wanda attack him as well usually cult leaders do that for personal means)

Granted there are a lot of small details everyone is over looking but you know what when things hit the fan I can't wait til everyone still blame the Avengers for everything.

#34 Posted by The Stegman (26056 posts) - - Show Bio
@BewilderingBeing:  
 


@Hareil0079 said:

@BewilderingBeing said:

@The Stegman said:

Cyclops is acting like a over zealous religious nutbag and I bet, I guarantee, his whole Phoenix power thing will come back to bite him and the world in the butt.

Since when has cyclops been religious? some of you guys pull stuff right out of your backside

He's not saying that cyke is religious that his actions are similar to those nutbag religious cult leaders

Again how so?? I just don't get it.. what has he done that has been so extreme? A question that is still not be answered yet many still insist that he is a total loon. 

How?? He wants to put the entire world in danger on the off chance that the Phoenix Force can be used to restore the mutant race, although everytime the Phoenix has come to Earth it's ended in disaster, he's willing to sacrifice his own granddaughter as the host of the Phoenix, even though she was obviously not ready for such a task, he won't listen to reason of any kind, but rather following his own belief system blindly and hoping for the best, He's become a madman, and what is even worse, now that he's apart of the Phoenix Five, he's an extremely powerful madman.
#35 Posted by oraclefyre (936 posts) - - Show Bio

Hope's not supposed to be this profound character. She's just a kid in way over her head. She's been taught to survive all her life, now she has to learn to handle hierarchies and adult politics. The adults completely think they have complete say over her.

#36 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

@Osian2 said:

@oraclefyre said:

Read X-Men Legacy, and the X-Men are going to turn on the Phoenix 5. It's obvious from my point of view and a couple of preview covers, such as an upcoming Wolverine and the X-Men cover.

So yeah, a team up between between the Avengers and X-Men will happen to bring down the Phoenix 5. I think.

There seems to be a hell of a lot of traitors in this event lol.

"Avengers vs X-Men: Everyone's a Hypocritical Douchebag!"

#37 Edited by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (4178 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides:

i think hope has to sacrifice her life to break the scarlet witch's spell, thus hope summers fullfilling her destiny of becoming a mutant messiah....thats what a messiah does sacrificing themselves for the greater good....sad but true

fyi....hope summers haters will be happy since she would be died

avx #0 was a waste of money....the only reason i bought it was because i thought hope and wanda would fight.....but i heard they fight each other towards the end

#38 Posted by BewilderingBeing (69 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

@BewilderingBeing:

@Hareil0079 said:

@BewilderingBeing said:

@The Stegman said:

Cyclops is acting like a over zealous religious nutbag and I bet, I guarantee, his whole Phoenix power thing will come back to bite him and the world in the butt.

Since when has cyclops been religious? some of you guys pull stuff right out of your backside

He's not saying that cyke is religious that his actions are similar to those nutbag religious cult leaders

Again how so?? I just don't get it.. what has he done that has been so extreme? A question that is still not be answered yet many still insist that he is a total loon.

How?? He wants to put the entire world in danger on the off chance that the Phoenix Force can be used to restore the mutant race, although everytime the Phoenix has come to Earth it's ended in disaster, he's willing to sacrifice his own granddaughter as the host of the Phoenix, even though she was obviously not ready for such a task, he won't listen to reason of any kind, but rather following his own belief system blindly and hoping for the best, He's become a madman, and what is even worse, now that he's apart of the Phoenix Five, he's an extremely powerful madman.

It isn't an "off chance" that is pretty much exactly what happened at least so far. As far as cyclops putting the entire world in danger, it was inevitable. The Phoenix was coming to earth. The only way they could have stopped it was to kill the host who probably could have been resurrected anyway (As it did with Jean countless times before). Cyclops had enough sense to know that stopping the Phoenix from coming and choosing Hope as the Avengers planned was as pointless as stopping the sun from rising. He has done nothing but be protective of Hope and his actions spared her from being possessed by the Phoenix in the first place. Nothing you have said has given any indication whatsoever he is a madman.

#39 Posted by The Stegman (26056 posts) - - Show Bio
@BewilderingBeing:  
 

It isn't an "off chance" that is pretty much exactly what happened at least so far. As far as cyclops putting the entire world in danger, it was inevitable. The Phoenix was coming to earth. The only way they could have stopped it was to kill the host who probably could have been resurrected anyway (As it did with Jean countless times before). Cyclops had enough sense to know that stopping the Phoenix from coming and choosing Hope as the Avengers planned was as pointless as stopping the sun from rising. He has done nothing but be protective of Hope and his actions spared her from being possessed by the Phoenix in the first place. Nothing you have said has given any indication whatsoever he is a madman.   


It was an off chance at the time, every time the Phoenix arises, it has caused nothing but mayhem and destruction, and I'm still not so sure that the current events that have occurred will end well. It was inevitable for the Phoenix to come, but that doesn't mean you should just sit back and let it happen, or in Cyclop's case, hope it happens, at least the Avengers tried to stop it, it's like saying you know someone's gonna break into your house, even if it's gonna happen, you can try to stop it anyway. He was training Hope to near exhaustion to the point that even Magneto was worried about his actions, he wasn't giving her a choice in the matter and even though the phoenix has driven previous hosts to near madness, he was willing to let it just take her, his actions did NOT spare her from being possessed, the Avenger's actions did when Tony attacked the Phoenix, thus splitting it's essence up among the five X Men. Cyclops has been selfish, stubborn, unreasonable and delusional throughout the whole event, and as seen in the latest AvX installment, he's only growing more deluded by wanting to 'get rid of'' the Avengers.
#40 Posted by jrock85 (2850 posts) - - Show Bio

Wake me when this nightmare is over.

#41 Posted by Strider92 (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@KainScion said:

@x_29 said:

No, Hope is just being a dumb annoying teenage girl.

@KainScion said:

x-men UBER DOUCHES and hopefully most of them will die, first one being cyclops. I HAVE SPOKEN!!

YOU DARE SPEAK ILL OF X-MEN!!! THOU ASS SHALL BE KICKED!

THE X-MEN HAVE BEEN ON THE DOUCHE WAY EVER SINCE UNCANNY X-MEN 1 MAYBE EVEN SOONER!!! NO AMOUNT OF FAN LOVE CAN HIDE IT ANYMORE!

I loled.

But back to the question. Infinite was a wake up call for Scott as Jean said would a normal person create a lifesized copy of their former lover out of moon dust simply to ask detached questions? No. The phoenix force is and will end up corrupting them. It will end with the non-corrupt X-men and the Avengers Vs the P5.

Both sides have made a lot of mistakes here but i'm pretty sure the X-men (mainly Scott) have been the most unreasonable/illogical as someone pointed out the phoenix force has never been a good sign and yet they were quite happy to welcome it back with open arms? Sounds a little suicidal to me.

#42 Posted by Aero_gt (840 posts) - - Show Bio

If the Phoenix was gonna come anyway like it did then there was no point in fighting it. You can't control fate, fate controls you. Avengers should just let the P5 do what the do until things get back, but no their close minded leader Craptain America, only sees the bad in things.

#43 Posted by KingofMadCows (345 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't it a bit hypocritical for the Avengers to go after Hope so hard when they've left Scarlet Witch alone? She's just as dangerous as the Phoenix Force but everyone is willing to give her a chance. And now they're willing to use her against the Phoenix 5?

#44 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@KainScion said:

@x_29 said:

No, Hope is just being a dumb annoying teenage girl.

@KainScion said:

x-men UBER DOUCHES and hopefully most of them will die, first one being cyclops. I HAVE SPOKEN!!

YOU DARE SPEAK ILL OF X-MEN!!! THOU ASS SHALL BE KICKED!

THE X-MEN HAVE BEEN ON THE DOUCHE WAY EVER SINCE UNCANNY X-MEN 1 MAYBE EVEN SOONER!!! NO AMOUNT OF FAN LOVE CAN HIDE IT ANYMORE!

I loled.

But back to the question. Infinite was a wake up call for Scott as Jean said would a normal person create a lifesized copy of their former lover out of moon dust simply to ask detached questions? No. The phoenix force is and will end up corrupting them. It will end with the non-corrupt X-men and the Avengers Vs the P5.

Both sides have made a lot of mistakes here but i'm pretty sure the X-men (mainly Scott) have been the most unreasonable/illogical as someone pointed out the phoenix force has never been a good sign and yet they were quite happy to welcome it back with open arms? Sounds a little suicidal to me.

Thats not so much of the X-men as it is more of Cyclops in general. Either way, that does not excuse why the avengers are acting like super cops drunk on authority.

#45 Posted by Strider92 (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@x_29: Oh I agree the Avengers aren't being as cool about it as they should be but i'd tend to side more with people trying to prevent a cosmic force ravaging the world than I would the guy who is basically welcoming it with open arms. I agree the Avengers are acting like douchebags but I see things more from their perspective than I do the X-men (mainly Cyclops though who seems to be out-douching everyone at them moment lol).

#46 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@x_29: Oh I agree the Avengers aren't being as cool about it as they should be but i'd tend to side more with people trying to prevent a cosmic force ravaging the world than I would the guy who is basically welcoming it with open arms. I agree the Avengers are acting like douchebags but I see things more from their perspective than I do the X-men (mainly Cyclops though who seems to be out-douching everyone at them moment lol).

Your one of the few who seems to see what's really going on, and has one of the best objective opinions

#47 Posted by KainScion (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aero_gt said:

If the Phoenix was gonna come anyway like it did then there was no point in fighting it. You can't control fate, fate controls you. Avengers should just let the P5 do what the do until things get back, but no their close minded leader Craptain America, only sees the bad in things.

the phoenix force isnt fate.

#48 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1363 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap's trying to save 6 billion lives scott less then two hundred. The fact that scott believes hope can control the phoenix without having trained her is crazy.

#49 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

@Crimsonlord53 said:

Cap's trying to save 6 billion lives scott less then two hundred. The fact that scott believes hope can control the phoenix without having trained her is crazy.

Scott's currently trying to help the entire world with the Phoenix Force, and he said he felt Hope wasn't ready.

#50 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1363 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes by enforcing his will on the world to show that there is nothing to fear from muntant's with cosmic Omnipotent power in other word's Fascism. (O.K a loose definition but if the shoe fits) He also told hope he felt she was not ready after he was made a host before that he and the X-men did nothing to train her.

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