f*@^ Bendis and SJW-sucking Marvel.

@lorex: I can definitely agree with this

Wow, Bendis just threw in with the nurture side of the nurture vs. nature argument on sexuality. Don't know if he was intending to - but the adult Bobby Drake is not gay. It's already pretty clear that these X-Men are either from an alternate timeline, or will at some point be returned and mind wiped by Professor X so all their adult events will proceed as they already unfolded. Anyhow, adult Bobby Drake was never shown to be gay since he was teen, but this teen Drake, in a different environment, exposed to new things, is gay? That's a nurture argument if I ever read one.

Jean Grey just proved herself to be a total obnoxious trollop.

Am I the only person who is okay with this? I mean, it's not like this came completely out of left field . . . fans have felt that Iceman was probably gay for decades. They really have -- Seth McFarlane didn't make that joke ten years ago for no reason. With Iceman, being gay was always a possibility.

And don't freak out everyone. I'm sure Iceman will continue to be hilarious and a badass. His being gay doesn't have to be a big deal. If anything, it means that the guy finally has a chance of being in a relationship that's not completely boring.

Why turn an established character gay? I think it makes sense because it's such a common thing to happen in real life, a man in his 30s realizing his homosexuality despite having dated plenty of women.

In addition, I think it's important to have at least one hi-profile gay Marvel hero. I know there are others like Northstar and Rictor and Anole and Wicken but here's the thing. No one really knows or cares about any of those characters, not in the mainstream. If you look at the best heroes, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Hulk, Iron Man, Aquaman, Nightwing, Jean Grey, Daredevil etc -- they're all straight. Every single character that people care about and little kids play action figures with, they're all straight. Iceman isn't a Cyclops, Captain America, or a Hulk, but still, he's got the potential to be, if he's written well. He's got a really badass powerset and a great personality. So yeah, this could be huge for so many people, to see a B-level hero also happen to be a gay man.

As a gay comic book reader, I think this is really exciting. I love straight superheroes. All of my favorite heroes (Batman, Cyclops, Nightwing, Flash, etc) are straight, and yet I still love reading their stories and learning about their love lives. So why can't straight readers be a little more open-minded, and support Iceman being gay?

As for how Bendis handled the scene, I thought it went pretty well. Bobby's fear and reluctance to face the truth were really well realized, and I think having Jean out him was really disgusting but also an interesting choice. I mean, teenagers are cruel and insensitive, so I think Jean's behavior was actually really realistic. And I think at this point adult Iceman has got to be latantly gay and just in denial. Nothing else makes sense. As everyone else has already pointed out, being gay isn't a choice and your environment can't turn you gay, so this means that adult Iceman must just be a closet case. Maybe Emma Frost and the other psychics didn't say anything because they're more respectful and sensitive than teen Jean is.

*applauds*

The one decent comment in this entire topic.

Oh please. I really dont understand why this is necessary as some people want to make it out to be. Im black yet Im not campaigning or clamoring for an African American superhero all the time. In fact I think its bullsh*t what they did to Nick Fury. I find it more offensive to see a comic or movie or tv show throw the token blackguy in just to say they are equal opportunity. I would think a gay person would feel the same way.

I dont know sometimes people act like its not ok to be straight anymore. If someone is gay or straight thats their business. But to try and force everyone to accept it one or another is just silly. Why cant people be happy with themselves and/or their own choices without needing validation from the world. Is kind of like why do people hod press conferences and 20/20 specials to announce that they are gay when straight people dont do that.

I'll probably catch some flack for this but whatever. Im just being honest. It was in poor taste the way things went down. Northstar coud have been used but going out of the way to try and get sales and create controversy is ridiculous and I think more of an insult to gay people than a victory. Now I hae sit and read people explain that its not choice all because a straight guy decided to overstep his boundaries and try to explain or address something he has no idea about.

Its a complete joke and I really hope it doesnt stick. Marvel and Bendis have really pushed me to my limits with the things happening or not happening during this run. At 34 and after 3 tours in the middle east as well as other life experiences maybe its just time togrow up and let comics go. Its pretty clear to me that theres not much room for old school fans anymore. And really its just not fun anymore with all the so called social and life lessons being forcibly attempted now. This goes on the long list of criticisms for inconsistent boring and just plain out and out stupid writing. Ive always loved the xmen but these have been trying times for me and for the first time in forever I can see myself nt really bothering anymore. But who cares,thats just me, one old fan.

@hawk2916:

Thanks for your service BTW.

@avenger85: lol yeah

No, it isn't silly. It is totally wrong: forcing a person to accept a change in his or her sexuality, is the best way to push him or her to reject himself or herself, creating in this way huge psychological issues in him or her.

Are you tried to read the Valiant comics?

I read Doctor Mirage and Bloodshot Reborn almost by chance and I found them very good: the stories don't have storylacks, the character are credible and well developed, the idea are interesting and also the arts are good. In my opinion they are better that the arts of Marvel, because they are perfectly enjoyable also if you see them in black and white; like the picture on the right. In fact in my opinion only in black and white you can see if an artist is really able to do well his work; the colors in fact conceal the inability of the artist to characterize the physiognomy or the expressiveness of the characters.

In my opinion Marvel wants write comics for bimbominkia, because is simpliest push their to buy everything Marvel prints, instead try to write comics for readers able to do a critical analysis of their stories. With the second ones it is necessary put a great attention to detail, built a story without any type of lacks (above all logical) and assure constantly an high quality of the storytelling. Instead write for more childish readers (childish isn't the right word, but in this moment I don't fund the one right) is simpliest: it is enough give them some coupe the theatre, some great events and some poignant feelings. But these latter readers are also readers unable to keep interested in the comics that they read. So the sales drop constantly and it is need relaunch every three/four years the several titles. Exactly like it has happened with "All New Marvel Now": there was a great event (Avengers versus X-Men), a relaunch of all the Marvel titles (All New Marvel Now), some other smaller events (Axis, Battle of the Atom, Black Vortex…) and now there will be another great event (Secret Wars 2015), wich will be followed by another relaunch of all the Marvel titles.

@ec2277: I plan on trying Valiant. I'm also enjoying Lazarus from Image

I'd say this would be a bigger issue if it wasn't young Iceman who was outed as being gay. Seriously, why make reveal the sexual orientation of a character who's at an age where a lot of people are confused about their sexual orientation. What's worse is that they revealed that the Iceman from another timeline is gay, not the younger version of the original Iceman. If she told the original Iceman he was gay, and he admits it, then it would have more impact.

Have no idea where this came from, but this cracked me up.

Why create two threads of Iceman's Gay? SMH

@magnetowasalwaysright: I made this thread a day before comicvine put up the article. I didn't think they would.

Ooooh o.k.

@phoenixofthetides said:

Have no idea where this came from, but this cracked me up.

so all the men in man in 05 x-men were inlove with jean? lolol

@phoenixofthetides: its from an X-babies issue of Uncanny iirc...

its actually still rather ambiguous... tho i will concede it feels like he's trying to admit his feelings for her... tho it could just as easily be coz she, being a telepath, knows he's gay

@phoenixofthetides said:

Have no idea where this came from, but this cracked me up.

I't from X-Men #46 and they rest of their conversation is shown, he wants to know if Emma left any traces of herself in his mind after she possessed his body. Jean tells him she doubts it and that his real issue is that Emma forced him to face the fact that he didn't have as much control over his power as he thought he did.

Iceman was turn gay and it's not to make some good selling. He was turning gay because that's what Marvel's being doing. Reducing the popularity of the x-m's fans and have the Inhumans take over (the reason why less people are going to buy x-m books). Marvel are reducing the mutants and they will get wit of them faster than you can ever imagine. The reason why I hate Fox and Marvel.

That's some crazy stuff a character could indeed make another character think what ever they wanted. I never thought Jean the type to just invade another characters mind like that. Kind of cold hearted and evil.

Iceman gay is crazy the poster child for Pimp of the season.

Talk about odd.

@vivide: the iluminati probably has something to do with this. It feels like I felt a rock hit my mind like glass

If it feels that way then write it down somewhere

Ran across this in Defenders 131 the other day...granted that it's from the debut of the Walrus, so the whole issue is tongue in cheek. He's obviously just joking, but honestly it's kind of a surprising thing to even bring up in a comic from 1984.

I always knew something's wrong with Iceman lol

@owie: that's awesome

bendis has lost his mind. bobby albeit immature has always been straight. I know some want to read between the linest all arguments in favor of him being gay are projections of the reader. there is too much cannon to indicate his is straight. mystique is all im going to say. i truly think this is bendis' cry for help with his latent homosexuality. he should just come out and admit it to his wife and kids and move on.

So you think it's plausible that a middle-aged man with a wife and kids is a closeted homosexual? Then why is it so far-fetched when it comes to Bobby? -- a guy that's majorly insecure and has a horrible track record with women.....

;)

It's actually completely contrary to what he said, tbf.

That title though, the irony's still present. :|

@sprior93: isn't that a horrible stereotype for all gay men though? They have to be sissys, with family problems, major insecurities, and inabilities to continue long and fruitful relationships?

Absolutely, but I'm not talking about your average gay man -- I'm talking about a deeply closeted homosexual. Tell me about all the closeted gays that are full, confident individuals who have fruitful romantic relationships with women.....

Look, I'm fully aware that being self destructive, rebellious, immature, or insecure has nothing to do with sexual orientation; however, some closeted men(and many others) have these traits i.e. it's plausible that Bobby is conflicted about his sexuality. There's a reason fans have been joking/speculating about it for years.

@sprior93: I see what you are saying, but you just do not know how many coloseted people are out there. Like, what if some of the happiest and romantic "straight" men you know trended more on the homosexual scale? It is just something you can't say for certain.

I mean, I happen to know plenty of men who are insecure and have never had a girlfriend who are straight. Sadly the majority of these men I play magic with at my LCS. So arguably, I know more men like that rather than apparent closet homosexuals. But who knows? Maybe the majority of people I know are closeted.

@dman1366: I agree with you completely. I'm just trying to say that Bobby being a closeted homosexual is one of many potential reasons for why he acts the way he does. I did not mean to imply that all closeted men and women have those traits, just that some do.

@sprior93: oh absolutely! i honestly dont care that he's gay; he is still an off the wall omega mutant. i was just pointing out the mild bigotry of Bendis

I think Bendis making Bobby gay is the dumbest and lamest thing.

I think Bendis letting two or three homosexual X-men slip into obscurity to then out the one character whose subconciousness expressed attraction to females in one heck of a horrible scene is dumber and lamer, actually.

@stahlflamme: Your correct man it is, he could have an already established homosexual character and develop them more. Instead he turned a character whose subconciousness expressed attraction to females gay, it just seems like gimmicky shock vaule to me.

@theheaven_guardian10: @stahlflamme:Bendis doesn't know how to write any characters after Morrison's run. He doesn't even know how to write Laura correctly (Hopeless did a better job than him imo and that's just sad). He'll only use the characters he grew up with and will not take any risk using characters that actually needs to be developed. I know a significant amount of people love the O5 but I can't help but feel like Bendis is stretching their story way beyond breaking point. Reading about the O5 is like eating the same food you'd had for a year. In my eyes, Bendis outed Iceman as gay simply because of convenience and shock value. It adds nothing to the overall story of Iceman, or the O5, or the X-men and the process Iceman's outing via Jean Grey (Marvel's Mightiest Mary Sue) even left a bad taste in some homosexual readers. I'd rather have another story about Anole and his troubles finding love (that issue in Amazing X-men is simply amazing) than read about tasteless, unneeded gay Iceman. It is indeed ONE of the dumbest and lamest things Bendis has done to the X-men.

(I don't hate Bendis and I actually enjoy his non-X-men work. I just don't feel like he moved the X-men story forward and , instead, did the opposite. Same goes with Aaron, excellent Wolverine writer but horrible with the X-men. I'm glad the two are leaving/left the X-men. Edit: This being said, looking at the upcoming X-books... it makes me cringe.)

@bababoom: Yes, Teen Jean being horribly intrusive and everyone is just fine with it. Xavier was like that in the original X-books, but that was back when Superman would kill Bizzaro for the horrendous crimes of being dumb and ugly. Iceman was an especially bad case, because after spending a couple of pages on her forcing him to admit it to her, she told him how they don't have to tell anyone, if he doesn't want to, because its his business... Add to that that Bendis had no plans for Iceman beyond this for the rest of his run and then stopped writing it.

@bababoom: Basically everything you said about Iceman, Laura, Bendis and his run on the X-books. Along with Aaron has well, you summed up everything nicely. To everything post Schism has been trash, the X-men and X-universe need to be rebooted in such a major way. You and @stahlflamme summed it and nailed it very very very nicely and well.

Yes very well said. Iceman being suddenly made gay was stupid and ill-concieved. Bendis and Aaron were both terrible for Xmen. Maybe they can write solo characters but not the xmen.

@hawk2916: Yes I highly, agree with you on that, both Bendis and Aaron can write solo characters very very very well like Daredevil and Wolverine. But team books no so much, they been nothing but trash and garbage to X-men.

Ah that's why they made him gay, to reduce his popularity.

Marvel want to get rid of the Xmen.

Cant wait for Marvel to go bankrupt.....again...

@cgoodness:

You'll be waiting then. They got Disney money now lol.

The O5 x men are from An alternate Earth-616 set in the past from where the X-Men were taken to the present Earth-616 by Beast. Beast intended the younger X-Men to return, but Jean convinced them to remain until they can ensure Xavier's dream on peaceful coexistence become a reality. So if O5 bobby is out then that won't effect 616 bobby. Hopefully.

Jeff Lemire already confirmed that adult Bobby is gay.

@trickyman86

do you think that it is harder to relate to characters that arent similar to you (i.e. minorities saying it is easier to relate to same race)

On the one hand, it's easier to relate to characters that look, behave, and feel the same way you do; on the other hand, sharing a single trait is not always enough to connect with a character. For example, I'm gay, but I don't relate to a character like Midnighter -- a sadistic killer/vigilante -- just because we have the same sexual orientation.

do you think it is ok to express concern/anger with characters being changed to suit someone elses narrative rather then your own?

Absolutely, but it's not okay to express concern/anger in derogatory and hurtful ways.