I think you unintentionally pointed out on this whole Bendis' "Revolution" essence and why many feel cheated. This book in the end in just a big hyperbole. And that's where intelligent and independent characters like Magneto, Magic and Emma, do follow Scott because...... Why? Are they blinded by his overwhelming greatness? Might be. But seriously, the idea of two separate X-fronts made me think (in the beginning) that the purpose was meant for the newer status-quo were two fractions create an "yin/yang" structure to act where the second is unable, but what we get instead are irrelevant wannabes that only know to troll Prof. Wolverine where he'll respond "You bloody Magclops!" Sometimes I wonder what writers like Bendis think about our, fans' intelligence and I'm pretty sure he comes to a conclusion "Meh, let's just troll them! While removing/rewriting everything I disliked, again all that in a troll way."

If no one needs them and the are irrelevant, why the hell they're given a separate title?

my point wasn't that Cyclops was irrelevant, it was that after growing up with him not being on the team, and with most of the other classic X-men around, I don't think the X-men needs him to be the X-men, BUT, by putting him in a new context away from the other characters, it's made me more interested in him independent of the classic team. Sort of like when he formed X-factor, I guess, but with a different crew.

So, if you think Cyclops is irrelevant, you can read X-men without him, if you think he is relevant, read Uncanny; why would anyone feel "cheated" by having those options?

The idea that Bendis isn't a fan of the characters himself (but just a troll trying to see what he can get away with?) is laughable to me. Seriously, why would he bother?

That's the point, I want this enormous potential and incredibly provocative lineup to be more than just relevant, but also gaining some wins and trust. Are they? In the end of the day, like you said they're pretty much nobodies if we look at the big picture.

We don't really know how writers view us, fans and readers, when they really write a fan-service, or a personal fan-fic (like Jenkins pretty much did with Sentry), or innovate, or anything else. Yet, what we do know (at least there's a rumor about Bendis' ANXM) that he wants to rewrite Jott. Why, why beat an actually dead horse? And why do we need this? I don't know, and I'm still waiting for La Revolucion. Oh, I also don't hate this book, we actually talked about this before, and it has a great potential, I just want this potential to be revealed already.

Do you mean Paul Jenkins, the guy who invented the Sentry? he's arguably the only guy who wasn't doing Sentry fan-fic.. or do you mean that Sentry was fan-fic of the MU? because it's basically cannon now..

Either way, the term fan-fic itself is pointless, since all writers who use characters they don't create are basically doing fan-fic. There's no reason to assume that a writer isn't themselves a fan of a character they choose to write, just because they have a different vision/interpretation of the character than other fans.

For me, I'm still interested enough in the new premise to not be in a rush to see where it takes the characters. Bendis has introduced some new elements to the story with the outlaw revolutionary angle (SHIELD as a going concern to mutants, the support of baseline human pro-mutant proponants, the new school/students), all of which bare more exploration before Cyclops' team ultimately redeems themselves or fails.

also, I don't know what Jott is, so I can't speak to that..

Huh? The best friend of Reed Richards? The inspiration for Spiderman? Rogue's first one? The one who can calm down the Hulk? All this is just the tip of the iceberg, and what it is if not a fan-fic infiltrating his own creation into the main continuity in the most insolent manner? This is off-topic I just used it as an example.

Well, now with Corsair alive I hope my point is better viewed. What is he doing if not trolling the fans? Btw Jott is Jean and Scott, like Rogneto and stuff just saw fans use this shortening :) Anyway like other fans claim, Bendis did say he wants to rewrite this classic couple because.. he doesn't like it. That's what I call "beating the dead horse" actually with no reason, oh, and I think X-23 wasn't a random choice to fulfill the place of a new potential love-triangle or should I say love-square? In Uncanny it's pretty much the same, on a (thank God) much lower scale, broken powers for the sake of it, and why would Cyclops and Kitty support O5 presence and irresponsibility? Just because.

...and he made SHIELD look like incompetent pack of idiots who got played by shape-shifted into Maria Hill Mystique like two times and by the same tactic? Super-spies-writing at its best. But our hope is still there :)

My point was that Jenkins Sentry can't really be called fan-fic exactly because, a.) he invented the Sentry, and b.) he invented him for a story that wasn't meant to be in 616 continuity to begin with, but was later adopted in by other writers. See what I mean?

I haven't been following All-new', but characters come back from the dead all the time. Either because they're popular or because a writer wants to use them, I don't see how Bendis doing that is any different. And that he wants to rewrite "Jott"s story, beating a dead horse though it may be, it's at least evidence that he is a fan of the characters, or why would he care enough to change it?

Uncanny' doesn't really have any of these problems for me, though. Breaking the team's powers may seem random, but it helps play to the theme of vulnerability that permeates this team both as a group and as individuals. The O5 stuff doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but that's mostly just been in All-new', which I've had no problem ignoring.

...is one way of looking at it.

The other is that he's making Mystique seem especially good at what she does, which is kind of something you want from your main antagonist, right? I mean, that's kind of Mystique's whole thing; if she couldn't fool them, what kind of a threat would she even be?

rewriting Jean and Scott is just stupid. What next is he going to redo Angel-Archangel. There is really no reason for Bendis doing this rewriting. Its stupid.

For the record, the announcement of a solo series for the O5 Cyclops has hurt my hopes for All New X-Men, and damaged any credit I had given Marvel for handling the character of Cyclops....I would like to retract any statement I made in defense of the series

Really? Didn't know that, the way I've read he was just an illustration of some old and forgotten Stan Lee's ideas, so it might be defined by a success/failure this book was about to gain maybe? Again, I used this as a metaphor/example of how writers can be also fanboyish writing some characters turning them into MarySues, instead of an actual development which doesn't have to be always positive (even if the Void was a part of him, Sentry the hero was a total Mary Sue to begin with, I was really enjoying how Bendis slowly decimated this boring parts of his character actually lol).

Being a fan of the characters he writes or not, isn't really an issue right here, being a writer that intends to do something for the sake of it, or actually try to expand the limitations or a metaphor or whatever a creative writer will want to do, besides just playing with passionate fan feelings, I think that what we were discussing right here.

I don't know, maybe a threat with a lot of connections to pull her out of there? Or with some incredibly impressive tech/friends/plots for situations like this, what we got was the laziest of them and I wasn't impressed by Mystique, she was just herself, but SHIELD were totally degraded into a guild of ignorant imbeciles. I fall for details, that's my curse I guess.

alright. my point was that, if he is himself a fan, can it really be said that he's simply trolling fans? Lots of fans, I'm sure, would re-write or undermine parts of the stories they didn't like, given the opportunity, and to the chagrin of other fans. To me trolling implies something else.

..but I do agree that if one's looking for a book to "actually try to expand the limitations or a metaphor or whatever a creative writer will want to do, besides just playing with passionate fan feelings", All-New X-Men probably isn't the book for them.

I would argue that Uncanny' might be, but that's a separate argument.

See, to me, Mystique is supposed to be one of the greatest shape-shifters in the MU, capable of duplicating not only someone's looks, but their voice, scent, and minute details of their body language. That's her one trick. Simply, she seems like she should be able to fool even the best, and her flagrant and multiple infiltration of SHIELD should be proof of that, rather than an indication of SHIELD's competence.

Hmmmm, All New X-Factor's too early to tell, but three issues in and I'm really enjoying it.

X-Men Legacy Vol.2 was the best X-Book.

All New X-Men/Uncanny are too slow for my liking.

Uncanny Avengers.

I like the X-men title because it has some of the most underrated characters like Monet, Typhoid Mary, and Karima Shapandar, it's also one of the only all-female books ever that isn't campy or reductive. You stop noticing it's all women actually, they just tell genuinely good stories.

I don't get why Uncanny Avengers gets so much flak, I love it, I feel like it's one of the better-written and more thoughtful titles of Marvel as a whole. Also, it has interesting conflicts like Captain America addressing the slaying of the child Apocalypse, I feel like it's one of the only titles that deals with consequences of past events in an interesting way you don't typically see. Also, it's realistic the X-men might have to work with the Avengers, they live in the same world and obviously they aren't aware they're comicbook characters so they would think to be like "Wait, I'm an X-man. I shouldn't be here. This is an Avengers-ish title". The only thing about that I don't like is how unlikable and unforgiving they've made Rogue, it kinda makes sense but she's gotten too carried away with the hating on Wanda. She slept with Magneto who intentionally has killed many more people than Wanda ever had. I'm sorta waiting for Wanda to mention that to Rogue "Okay, stepmommy, why don't you judge me some more then go sit on my terrorist father", hahaha. I did like this exchange though....

@hexthis said:

I like the X-men title because it has some of the most underrated characters like Monet, Typhoid Mary, and Karima Shapandar, it's also one of the only all-female books ever that isn't campy or reductive. You stop noticing it's all women actually, they just tell genuinely good stories.

I don't get why Uncanny Avengers gets so much flak, I love it, I feel like it's one of the better-written and more thoughtful titles of Marvel as a whole. Also, it has interesting conflicts like Captain America addressing the slaying of the child Apocalypse, I feel like it's one of the only titles that deals with consequences of past events in an interesting way you don't typically see. Also, it's realistic the X-men might have to work with the Avengers, they live in the same world and obviously they aren't aware they're comicbook characters so they would think to be like "Wait, I'm an X-man. I shouldn't be here. This is an Avengers-ish title". The only thing about that I don't like is how unlikable and unforgiving they've made Rogue, it kinda makes sense but she's gotten too carried away with the hating on Wanda. She slept with Magneto who intentionally has killed many more people than Wanda ever had. I'm sorta waiting for Wanda to mention that to Rogue "Okay, stepmommy, why don't you judge me some more then go sit on my terrorist father", hahaha. I did like this exchange though....

While I agree that Uncanny Avengers doesn't deserve the hate it gets and it does present a great combination of thought provoking dialogue and action while bring the Marvel U closer together....This scene illustrates one of my only problems with this series, Scarlet Witch goes off on a tangent where she makes the valid points against putting labels on a group of people and Rogue, despite having legitimate life experiences that she could use to explain why she's so proud of her label as a mutant, instead chooses to respond by making it about Wanda personally.

To me it's like asking someone to stop identifying as whatever race they are and instead identify as just a person and give up their heritage and culture....there's points to both but Rogue's not making any.

True :) What is trolling for you?

Of course it is, they don't know how to handle just a shape-shifter, then what about high-class (power-wise) villains?

The enmity that this title gets isn't a paradox, giving a field of expression to X-fans' most hated Scarlet W. and turning Havok into her vindicator, was already a good beginning of aversion, and then the infamous speech was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Really? The X-characters were taken out of the game, they're all dead or captured. But, I do agree, though they shouldn't be called Avengers, they should've pick something more neutral, like a new incarnation of Defenders? But absolutely not Avengers, not after AvX, that look like an usurpation.

Actually, Rogue and Thor (Simon has a potential, but he is a pretty misserible henpecked) were the only likable characters, although her bitterness, Rogue was the the only one to suppress the attempts of domestication, she was a personality. Though the portrayal that Remender written for her was supposed to denominate her negativity, which knowing him was pretty obvious not done unintentionally (and which aim it has served we already learned in issue 14 >_>), and what we got as the result was exactly the opposite, which also indicates the sentiments of the book. How was he planning to communicate with the X-fans through the only two self-loathing characters like Havok and Wanda (Hypoc-verine for that time already gained too many faces to take him for serious)? Fail. Literally and generally. When this whole alternate timeline will be rewritten by pure-hearted heroes like Havok and SW, I'm sure that Rogue will also turn into their lapdog.

But for now, she was the only one to pull Wanda out of her perfect world where everyone treats her like nothing happened and she is a well accepted hero.

The comparison between the two isn't correct, every murder Magneto committed had a precedent, as for SW - she committed a gene and identity genocide, not by taking their life (while many of them used their powers in life-or-death situations, and thanks to her one-sided decision, died as the result), but she erased their characteristics and a deciding part of identity, she erased the base of their self-identification and exposed them to physical risks, being unable to defend themselves with their lost abilities in the face of the threats that only waited for this exposure to strike them off-guard. The only comparison that actually bears a resemblance is an EMP during Fatal Attractions, that left life-supporting devices, flying planes, etc. out of an energy-supply, BUT it was an act of retribution, act of war, as a response for blockade that could've end with his men deaths. Devastating? Yes. Baseless? No. What base did Wanda have? Poor girl, daddy didn't bye her a Barby. =(

Agree, he made Havok and Wanda his pet characters and gives them an opportunity to "shine" while Rogue was downgraded into a whiny swagga.

But, an another Mutant-affairs ideology, that speaks about being just united-f*ck-the-diffidence was a brilliant idea, but Remender rushed with it and gave it to be illustrated with a wrong character. In general, there should be more ideologies, it's about time for the X-metaphor to expand and to break free from a stagnant two-sided take like other mutants cannot think for themselves.

That's ridiculous, Wanda hasn't been apart of an arc yet wherein she hasn't been confronted with her past. In AvX, Hope went out of her way a few times to disparage Wanda as did young Jean Grey and as did all of the X-men in the Children's Crusade. Wanda has been the subject of scrutiny ever since she returned, Rogue is just the first to make a full-time job of it much at the cost to her effectiveness as teammate.

The comparison between the two isn't correct, every murder Magneto committed had a precedent, as for SW - she committed a gene and identity genocide, not by taking their life (while many of them used their powers in life-or-death situations, and thanks to her one-sided decision, died as the result), but she erased their characteristics and a deciding part of identity, she erased the base of their self-identification and exposed them to physical risks, being unable to defend themselves with their lost abilities in the face of the threats that only waited for this exposure to strike them off-guard. The only comparison that actually bears a resemblance is an EMP during Fatal Attractions, that left life-supporting devices, flying planes, etc. out of an energy-supply, BUT it was an act of retribution, act of war, as a response for blockade that could've end with his men deaths. Devastating? Yes. Baseless? No. What base did Wanda have? Poor girl, daddy didn't bye her a Barby. =(

You're saying Wanda eliminating the x-gene from a vast number of mutants is worse than Magneto outright killing people? A "gene identity genocide" is worse than just an old fashioned, run-of-the-mill mass murder/genocide? Magneto's electromagnetic pulse also hardly encompasses all his crimes, there were several points where he tried to forcibly assume a fascist hold over whole countries through guerrilla warfare which often resulted in hundreds dying. It's not an "act of war" to doom thousands of civilians with an EMP in retaliation to the opposing side, it's an act of terrorism. An act of war would've been disabling the blockade, not murdering people to make a point. You think it's justifiable just because it was retribution?

Also Wanda's situation was a tad worse than her father not "bye-ing" her a "Barby". Unlike Magneto, Wanda didn't orchestrate or meticulously plan M-Day, it was the outcome of her having tried to resurrect her children. She and Dr. Doom tried to harness the lifeforce, unaware that it would cause Wanda to go mad. Anyways, as we know, the House of M universe was Quicksilver's idea as an alternative to losing Wanda which he could bear the thought of. When Magneto murdered Quicksilver in cold blood right before Wanda's eyes she had a colossal breakdown and with 3 words stripped 90% of mutants of the x-gene. The Scarlet Witch was possessed, she was crazy, and she had all of reality resting on shoulders when she said "No more mutants". Those are some pretty exceptional circumstances.

It's not entirely exonerating of Wanda, she shouldn't have messed with Lifeforce to begin with but I don't think she could've foreseen those specific consequences and I would understand why a mother would do everything she could to save her children. I think people referring to M-day as genocide is a trivialization of the term and it doesn't even accurately reflect the term. An important component of what constitutes genocide is that it is "systematic", meaning that it is methodical or organized. That was not at all the circumstances of Wanda's situation.

@hexthis:

I was talking specifically about UA, the way Remender portrayed Wanda, she was 100% redeemed in the eyes of the Avengers, even Wolverine. And the only character that wasn't pleased with this was also supposed to be portrayed unlikable, you see what I mean?

Now, as for comparisons, I didn't try to justify Magneto, I accept his villainous past and some of his actions were unforgivable, to not target civilians and innocents should've been part of his charactet and everytime he was acting more extremely his madness was also affecting him and tarnished his judgement. I could use this as excuse for him, but it all doesn't matter as long as he will be always considered a threat and everyone will keep looking over their shoulders as he's around. With SW it's exactly the opposite, everyone knows how easily she's manipulated, yet they let her join the Avengers again, she inherited the inclination for madness from her father, and being even more dangerous than him, she is treated like the Mday was an unfortunate accident, meh nothing to worry about, and this is what I say is wrong. In the end of the day she was selfish enough to ask help from Doom, to play with a power she should've known she might not be able to control and we all know how it ended. So, a good leader would know she cannot be trusted. And again, 'bye' now it also ended in a disaster, again, as she played her role in AT's manipulations.

@adamtrmm: I had considered Uncanny X-Men to be a third side of the spectrum in the mutant argument.

While Xavier's dream is for mutants to contribute to society using their gifts and Magneto's is to have mutants rule the world..i felt that Uncanny's view seemed to be that mutants are a people and they all should rally together and fight for independence and respect of who they are.....After Havok's speech and the issues afterward I felt like the two Uncanny books were a more modern take on the debate and should use that to frame a story with connections to the real world way people are defined by their heritage.

You see IMO that's the wrong point, because this is all, maybe besides the Havok's pretension and already non-existing Morlocks, are exactly the shades of one and the same. Well, actually it's "two", but for too long they've represented the ONLY options for ALL of mutants, like they're the ultimate dictators (Magneto/Xavier ideological clash) for mostly all faceless, unprincipled, spineless and weak-willed mutant sheep-populace, the way they're represented for most of their creation, of course that's when they're neither X-Men nor M-extremists, thanks to a single overwhelming minority/civil rights struggle metaphor (even by that, we only saw X-men struggle not mutants), that for me has to be outgrown for so many reasons, but I'll just use one - to exceed the stagnancy I think I'm not the only one to be tired from. I would like to see more opinions, I would like to see more faces - what about those who don't see the difference (yes, like Havok, but unlike him, not in a tasteless, self-loathing form), what about those who gain a God-complex when they can kill with a single punch/thought, what about those who hate themselves so much they will work with any anti-mutant group they'll find, what about those who believe in superiority on genetic level to actually bring a "Fourth Reich" based on eugenics of super-powers and their potential, what about nationalists who want to be a nation and they deserve a country and if they're denied, they'll struggle for independence? Hell, what about even those who make themselves appear like a sub-culture/trend? There are so many aspects to this metaphor, so I fail to understand how even the most intelligent writers don't even consider to expand the metaphor.

Cyclops/Wolverine (and I feel really stupid when I'm writing Wolverine's name to represent the "yang" of the metaphor) are just the shades of M/X overdone struggle.

@adamtrmm: I like your ideas on how things can be expanded. There are more than just two viewpoints. In fact I always looked at Xaviers dream as having 3-4 components thus allowing for 3 or 4 different teams with different idealogies. There are so many ideas that could be expanded upon in addition to what weve gotten that would keep the books fresh and never stagnant

That's what I'm saying :) What components?

I think we've seen all of that already...we've seen mutant town, the acolytes, mutant themed clubs, apocalypse, Elixer was a purifier I think.... these are things that are always brought in to be the opposition to the Xavier way of thinking but aren't nearly as well defined as Xavier vs Magneto.

The thing is that none of it has any weight to it because people like Exodus can be written off as "another crazy mutant". Cyclops' new fight for our rights thing is the equivalent of a civil rights leader in the trenches, which holds more weight because its the view point of a prominent character. The same with Havok's "erase the color" point of view.

I don't see the way the mutant metaphor has been portrayed as white and black, I just think that Xaviers dream is the white and though we constantly see it compared to the other colors it's biggest opposition is black.

On the other hand a lot of the other stuff just can't be because there is no mutant community. If say mutants returned and Utopia was around, then I could see why having a mutant threaten Gene war, or another mutant with a god complex, or having fierce nationalist outlook would matter because it would have an effect on the mutants as a people. But the problem that theres always been with the X-Men is that, save for maybe the period immediately before M-Day, mutants were just a some faceless group the X-Men were trying to keep people from having sway over. Even now, with 3 differing views, we don't actually get to see any mutants living there lives unless their villains or about to join the cast, so how about we define the state of the populace before we add ideas to sway them.

Apocalypse's "survival of the fittest" isn't a mutant ideology, it refers to any meta-human who is strong enough to survive the all against all war. CMIW but Elixir was a mutant hater before he knew he is a mutant. But you said it 100% correctly, X-men comics always portray any other ideology in a unnecessarily negative light compared to Xavier's dream, even if there was a pretension for anything I've listed, so my point is still there. Actually, many fans of stagnancy are to be blamed for this.

Of course it does, preventing a group from its rights is very wrong, yet it isn't the only wrong aspect of our life. We all know what happens in Syria just because two empires cannot agree on who either want to see as a winner in the end, thousands of innocents die as the result and many other aspects I won't get into right now. Can you see there a not exactly civil-rights bound metaphor for the X-mythos? I do. And that's the metaphorical expansion I'm all for - they are ready :) Another aspect, why are all governments so one sided in mutant hatred? What about militaristic patriots who realize mutants are the force to be reckoned with and will want to exploit them not by Weapon Plus projects, but investments into establishments where they'll be brainwashed with ideologies of patriotism for militant causes and utilizing their powers. Not all people in the governments are brainless bigots for the sake of it, unlike X-mythos mostly shows them to be.

There's no mutant community because there wasn't established one! They matter and the have a precedent for it because there was a nation that has been wiped out by machines humanity created exactly for this, we talked about this already. But I do agree this cannot happen right now, most of these new mutants (post-AvX) are teens, but in the near future? Damn, the aura of revolting youth is very strong these days :)

@adamtrmm: I think the components can be broken down in different ways.

For instance one group is like X-corp a search and rescue for mutants and mutant rights advocacy type ideal. Then there's the group that could be focused on protecting humanity and the peaceful coexistence of the species by being a type of police force providing protection from dangerous mutants (this is also kind of Storm's idea behind the XSE). Then you could have a group dedicated to the training and recruiting and at times rehabilitation of new or existing untrained mutants teaching them to use their powers for good. Yet another group could be focused on building a mutant community or nation which coincidentally goes along with Magneto and Xavier's ideal in Excalibur. Then the classic protecting a world that fears them is another team or ideal. Finally a preemptive strike force type team, being proactive and stopping problems before they start, which is actually not necessarily a Xavier ideal but more of an evolution of his ideals, so I guess thats why I included the concept. All are similar and really could fall under one umbrella but for the sake of doing books with different cast in each, I will say that the ideas can be executed differently and focused on in different ways

@adamtrmm: I can agree with the fact that there's MUCH more to be explored within the mutant metaphor. There's still plenty of things that we've yet to see exploited. I'll concede that we've never seen another idea with merits go up against Xavier's ideal.

But when I read Wolverine and the X-Men and other JGS books, It looks to me as if they have progressed past the generic hate an fear that the whole world seemingly has. Even Shield didn't just have the usual "Mutants are a plague" reasoning behind having sentinels. The JGS X-Men seem more like superheroes then Mutant Heroes, which they couldn't have pulled off in the 90s, so we've come a bit away from the writing of even 5 years ago.
I think we have only JUST reached the point where not having generic government hate for Mutants makes sense and that's only because of real world acceptance of Gay rights and criticism of modern day prejudices.

With that said, I think that once Cyclops gets his message straight, and Havok's unity squad is shown to be having an effect(one way or the other) we could see two sides have a logical debate about the mutant populace. And through that I'd love to see a character, maybe a 616 version of Ultimate X-Men's Mach 2, emerge as a true voice of the mutant populace that everyone else claims to want what's best for.

I see your point and personally when I read the issue before Uncanny started where Beast said that Scott was close to starting a war between Mutants and Humans that could end in Genocide....I was excited. But Marvel likes to keep this balance right on the edge of Crapsack world territory though so even though a realistic mutant culture divide would be interesting....they'd probably limit it to just another divide between heroes.

Someone who could really push that different ideal is or was Mister M. I actually thought this character could have been expanded on even more. He seemed to present something different from what the Xmen were doing. Another character who could fit that mold is Elixir. Being off to himself on Genosha and with his powers and previous thought patterns. of corse that may have to be something for the future, as I just cant picture him challenging the Xmen now with whatever ideals he has, maybe the New Xmen in the future

I'd like this idea if one day in the future, the X-Men go to Genosha or Utopia and find that a lot of the old mutants (Genoshan and Utopian) had gathered there and that mutants who's power manifested after AvX came there or to Utopia looking for help and found some of the older X-characters. It could be a striking idea if say, Elixer or someone else formerly of the X-Men is a part of a growing community in a place that the X-Men abandoned....it would be a good grounds for criticizing the X-Men for what they've actually done for the new mutant population.

@koays: Yeah. So many directions you could take that in and so many ideas that could come from it.

X-factor

That's what I'm saying, not all of these ideologies has to be automatically recognized as villainous just 'cause they don't necessarily fit Xavier's visions, he isn't Stalin and X-Men have to respect another opinions.. Well, when they'll exist :)

They cannot really portray SHIELD as 100% villains, Avengers work with them pretty tightly these days, I don't think anyone's ready for "AVX: someone strikes back". But seriously, I've no idea what lies behind "SHIELD vs. X-men" I mean, they could've hired/recruited more mutants instead of pretty lame Sentinels (another concept I'd like to see vanished from the X-books are the Sentinels - giant, stupid, immovable "killing machines" in 2014. Why? =\). But I do see your point, it feels so natural when civil rights movements these days achieve so much, I keep forgetting it wasn't always the same.

Mach 2? Is this from Wood's Ultimate run? Because, I have a long way till I get there :)

All of these would be very good beginning to get to the point where a metaphor of criticizing humanity would expand, and we'll have every month an issue that might make us think and wonder, that's another purpose of art besides fascination. I think it's achievable, that's what I'd like to see in the end. And creatively done bad@$$ battles :)

That's exactly what I am dreaming about :)

@adamtrmm: Yea Mach 2, is from Wood....I might have a favorite writer without realizing it.

But I think SHEILD having sentinels is an evolution of the ONE idea. Where their really there to protect the X-Men from themselves. Which I don't think having an individual or a team of mutants could do, because everyone would be expecting the fight between them that can't happen for risk of starting "AvX2: you thought it was over?"

I do think it's time sentinels got a revamp or something....maybe finally start showing some of the streamlined, smaller sentinels like Bastion being created.

His recent XX-men issues keep getting weaker as the story progresses, the only thing that saved the last issue was a very pleasant appearance of the kids. The main story was below mediocrity with some really negative moments, especially knowing that he is a competent writer makes me really annoyed.

I see what you mean, but I don't like when all the ideas get generalized under one monopoly, like all heroes should be Avengers, or like this, an organization like ONE that was a good idea actually (not for the X-men, but for the story) and now is being removed. I would like more details and interactions that could've been, assuming they'd all want the same, yet the egos of two leaders of two big governmental agencies might clash creating interesting frictions.

This, also super-soldiers and super-armored-soldiers. I mean, no matter how successful these ideas seem to get in their world, it's still not adapted by governments on a full scale, which is illogical. I mean, sometimes I feel like writers don't want this fictional world to actually develop and adopt its own appearances, designs and technological progress on a full scale, so their world will seem more "like ours", while it is already far beyond "us", so basically they intentionally stop the logical progression. What are they afraid of? That people won't relate? Of course they will, they relate to genetically evolved sweetheart that looks like a demonic elf =]

@adamtrmm: I think this last issue was ok. It felt to me like a lot of setup for the next one with mostly dialogue explaining why everyone is where they are/will be....the only part that bothered was the extra hard attempts at justifying Arkea as a major threat which I think he succeeded in already.

I think the writers should be limited by the state of our world, it would create a lot of disconnect if everything was as advanced as it could be between the Reed Richards and Tony Starks of the MU. As you said their already way beyond us when you consider the people running around on gliders, if we push the envelope further then it becomes Star Trek.

I think the real problem is that they don't deliver on things that have been predicted for their own world. No ones explores the idea that the things that were such an absurdity for an 80s take on the future are things that are common place now.

Likewise in the 80s and 90s the mutant metaphor was constantly dug in by people reminding you that this is an oppressed minority and having things happen to them that have happened to other oppressed minorities. But eventually they need to look at the source material and explore what it means when your government sees you as less then a person and yet still sees you as a potential danger.
.....So yea, where are the Governments that have a Mutant division in their army, or why hasn't there been an issue about whether mutants should be used in wars....admittedly they've been focusing more on the events within their own story, but eventually someone should ask the question of what this world really looks like.

This issue was terrible! The girls were hostile to each other without an actual reason, but that I can take, Amora, the Norse goddess, that bows down to a mutant sorceress, just to make us realize, how extremely bad@$$ she is, with that I have a problem. And by the same issue right afterwards, Selene herself kisses Arkea's shoes. I wonder who else will lick the ground when Madelyne will be reintroduced, totally WTF-moments. He turned his main villain into a Villain Sue, first she "hacked the Odin's magic", now this? And everything happened off-panel! And that's all about the character, who shouldn't have existed from the beginning and was oddly taken out by the XX-team, pretty much off-panel, again. Very disappointing writing for a writer most of us consider a totally capable one.

Well, they have mutants, inhumans, A.I., gods, aliens. They are nothing like us :) I don't mind a little of Marvel Trek, they are too advanced to be at the same point with reality, but it means nothing for the world peace and 3rd world countries, I'm only talking about megalopolises, which are always the first to taste of this progression, so the metaphor won't vanish anyway.

I do picture some of that, but what did you mean?

That's why I say this world must be defined by its own natural growth and rules/laws. It's like they still have no idea what powers are and how to contain and comprehend this (see Bendis' Uncanny), again amorphous and unstructured Marvel governments that were portrayed more like dumb bigots and parasites rather than authorities and pragmatics (they're the combination of all actually lol) right until Disney and Obama (media fascination about which is beyond me), so yes there's still a place for improvements. I just don't get how a defining issue like that can be overlooked, talking about "world more like ours".

What I see in a mutant metaphor for civil rights/minority issues kinda unmatched is that mutants ARE dangerous, they DO must to have a special treatment, and will a "prohibition law of special, natural (and offensive?) abilities utilization" considered as an act against their liberty? I don't think so.