Evil mutants teams.

#1 Edited by Silver_Raven (350 posts) - - Show Bio

Mystique seems to be gathering a new band of evil mutants to her side but who else will join her and will they be a Brotherhood, Sisterhood or something else? Also what is up with her and the Hellfire Club/Academy?

And if you could make up your nightmare team of evil mutants who would they be?

#2 Posted by Silver_Raven (350 posts) - - Show Bio

I have been trying to look up how many surviving evil mutants are out there and a lot of them are dead or depowered. I know the Marauders can be cloned as many times as need be but i am so bored of the same one being reused over and over again. I also don't know what happened to the Acolytes, the MLF, Nasty Boys and the Upstarts. I am sure some of them are still out there.

Anyway, i think Mystique should lead a new Mutant Liberation Front. She already has Sabertooth and Lady Mastermind. I would have her recruit Dragoness, Gorgon, and Pulse.

#3 Edited by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

@silver_raven: for me, Mystique's original Brotherhood (her, Destiny, Pyro, Blob, and Avalanche) will always be my favorite. It was just a perfect mix of personalities for a super-villain team.

That said, her new group (of her, Sabertooth, and Mastermind) is becoming a very close second, for me. It seems like it could use more members if it's going to flesh out a real group dynamic, but I think Sauron may be involved too, so that's alright.

Unfortunately, I doubt any right hand man will ever have the unique rapport that Destiny shared with Mystique, but Sabertooth, Mastermind, and Sauron are certainly interesting enough to make up for the loss of Blob and Pyro in the thug department.

#4 Posted by HAWK2916 (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

They should have their own series telling the same story as the xmen books but from the other perspective and they should give as good as they get

#5 Posted by Silver_Raven (350 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: Mystique is a great villainous leader but i wonder what her motivations are besides causing chaos. I would love for her motivations to go beyond being a mutant terrorist with no heart. She must have one, to have loved Destiny and her children the way she did. But writers tend to neglect that in favour of depicting her as a psychotic killer. It's seems like such a shame that she isn't given more shades of grey, especially with how sympathetic of character she is in the movies. If she could perhaps follow in the footsteps of Magneto as some kind of "anti-villain" who's bad deeds can be justified by good intentions, I know she would be a far more compelling character.

@hawk2916 said:

They should have their own series telling the same story as the xmen books but from the other perspective and they should give as good as they get

I have really wanted a book from the villains' perspective for a long time. The problem with this is that there are not enough likeable and relatable villains to make a team book work. Dark X-men did not work. Maybe Mystique's new team can fill the void left by the previous Uncanny X-Force and be extreme black ops taking out threats to mutantkind, while recruiting new mutants to their cause.

#6 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: Mystique is a great villainous leader but i wonder what her motivations are besides causing chaos. I would love for her motivations to go beyond being a mutant terrorist with no heart. She must have one, to have loved Destiny and her children the way she did. But writers tend to neglect that in favour of depicting her as a psychotic killer. It's seems like such a shame that she isn't given more shades of grey, especially with how sympathetic of character she is in the movies. If she could perhaps follow in the footsteps of Magneto as some kind of "anti-villain" who's bad deeds can be justified by good intentions, I know she would be a far more compelling character.

I think in some ways the way that Mystique was written when she operated with Destiny fit this description even better than Magneto ever did, in so far as Magneto didn't seem to think of himself as a villain until recently.

Take DoFP: Mystique and her Brotherhood are attempting an assassination, and, in that way, don't seem especially dissimilar to several other fanatical X-men villains. The X-men stop them and become the heroes. But if one considers that, on some level, Destiny must have realized that they would fail, it certainly brings the subject of her motive into question. Looking at it that way, it almost seems that they were attempting an assassination so that the X-men would be the heroes, which obviously makes mutants look better than if they had succeeded in their assassination attempt.

But it goes a bit deeper with Mystique herself; because, as readers, we can't know how much she knows of what Destiny knows, making her motives as questionable and mysterious as her namesake. Remove Destiny from the equation, and Mystique seemed like a more methodical version of what Magneto had been; but, given that we know Destiny is Mystique's confidant, we have to constantly second guess what she thinks she's doing and exactly what her motives are.

In the first story I read with Mystique, I watched her cunningly kill all of the X-men, only to have it be revealed that of course they were all robots. Ostensibly, she seems to be training to fight the X-men because they had taken in Rogue, who she wants to come back to her side. Except that, when fighting the robot X-men, she kills Rogue with as little hesitation as the rest. It makes it clear that she feels she must be willing to kill any or all of the X-men, regardless of her personal feelings.

Later in the same story, the Brotherhood has laid a trap for the X-men which, as readers, we are led to believe is only a distraction so that Mystique can infiltrate the school and talk to Rogue alone. Except that, if defeating the X-men has already been established as the mission Mystique's been training for, it makes it seem as though Mystique is really just distracting Rogue from being involved. Yet, when infiltrating the school, she shoots Xavier with a gun designed only to knock him out; so, if she actually wanted to defeat the X-men, why not have just killed him?

My point is that, with how Mystique was classically written, as partners with Destiny, you could never really pin down what her actual objective was. Was she simply a more methodical and pragmatic version of what Magneto had been (which, in itself would be interesting), or was she a character repentant of her past, willing to be the villain in order that the X-men would have an arch foe to become heroes against? That we could never know for sure was really what made her such a complex and interesting character.

#7 Edited by Arkhamc1tizen (2100 posts) - - Show Bio

mystique, sabertooth, avalanche, pryo, any female x villian

#8 Posted by Teerack (4554 posts) - - Show Bio

I could see Husk joining up with her.

#9 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

mystique, sabertooth, avalanche, pryo, any female x villian

I'm really enjoying Mastermind being on Mystique's current team (which is so far just the two of them and Sabertooth); she adds another level of deceptiveness that works well with how Mystique operates.

Definitely wouldn't mind seeing Avalanche and/or Pyro joining their ranks though.

#10 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2100 posts) - - Show Bio

@arkhamc1tizen said:

mystique, sabertooth, avalanche, pryo, any female x villian

I'm really enjoying Mastermind being on Mystique's current team (which is so far just the two of them and Sabertooth); she adds another level of deceptiveness that works well with how Mystique operates.

Definitely wouldn't mind seeing Avalanche and/or Pyro joining their ranks though.

yeah this would make a cool team

#11 Edited by flazam (2446 posts) - - Show Bio

mystique, sabertooth, avalanche, pryo, any female x villian

Lady deathstrike

#12 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

@arkhamc1tizen: Something I enjoyed, that's been missing from X-men for some time, was the old-school nihilistic villains like Blob, Pyro, Avalanche, Spiral, Black Tom, Juggernaut, Arcade, or the Hellfire Club. Villains who didn't necessarily have big, elaborate schemes for global domination, but were just bad guys because they could be. Just evil mutants abusing their powers for personal gain; it was actually more believable and more fun.

This seems to be Mystique's selling point in recruiting for her new Hellfire Brotherhood(?), whether that's actually her real goal or not, and so far it's been pretty refreshing.

#13 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2100 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Edited by Silver_Raven (350 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys Avalanche and Pyro are both dead. And Blob has been depowered. So who else is out there and wicked enough?

#15 Posted by Sinisteri (550 posts) - - Show Bio

Well,

I always want a revived version of an adult Hellfire Club similar to its classic roots. I think Scott's current team would've fit the bill perfectly instead of just making them another Xavier school. Their book could have focused on a group of mutants using money and power to overcome legal and public image issues as well as networking internationally better than the Avengers and X-men do. That would be a nice, different perspective.

Funny when you mention it that the X-sphere has lost some colorful villain teams with squandered potential. Most of the so called modern villain groups over the last decade have had no staying power or focus.

#16 Posted by Silver_Raven (350 posts) - - Show Bio

Well,

I always want a revived version of an adult Hellfire Club similar to its classic roots. I think Scott's current team would've fit the bill perfectly instead of just making them another Xavier school. Their book could have focused on a group of mutants using money and power to overcome legal and public image issues as well as networking internationally better than the Avengers and X-men do. That would be a nice, different perspective.

Funny when you mention it that the X-sphere has lost some colorful villain teams with squandered potential. Most of the so called modern villain groups over the last decade have had no staying power or focus.

I also don't like the current direction of Cyclops's team book. Opening another school when he disagreed with Wolverine about his school. It also seems weird due to the fact that most of their students seem older than teenagers and they seem to have a good grip on their powers. They should just turn that facility in a mutant underground and the main 4 can be the start of an X-Illuminati. They just need a few more senior members to add to the intelligentsia. Maybe Cable's X-Force could provide that.

#17 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys Avalanche and Pyro are both dead. And Blob has been depowered. So who else is out there and wicked enough?

I knew that Pyro died in the late 90's from the legacy vius, but I heard they brought him back. I could be misinformed on that though.

As for Avalanche, I just saw him a few months ago in Uncanny Avengers, so when did he die?

As for who else would be wicked enough, I'm pretty sure that Sauron is currently working with Mystique also. Between him, her, Sabertooth and Mastermind, I think that's a pretty good team. Though, personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Spiral or the Dark Beast join up with her new crew either.

#18 Posted by HAWK2916 (1358 posts) - - Show Bio

Mystique should be able to turn some otherwise good xmen. Since villians are constantly changing sides maybe some heroes should too. I'd like to see Sunspot join her as well as Magik. Add Vertigo and Selene and this is a dangerous team. Also Sebastian Shaw should be back as a villian and maybe join the team. I want Exodus on this team too.

Mystique, Sabretooth, Lady Mastermind, Exodus, Sunspot, Magik, Vertigo

#19 Posted by papad1992 (6815 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

I could see Husk joining up with her.

I hate what they did to her... she was one of my favorites, and now she is crumbling down to a character written by a half-witted writer!

#20 Posted by Teerack (4554 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

I could see Husk joining up with her.

I hate what they did to her... she was one of my favorites, and now she is crumbling down to a character written by a half-witted writer!

My favorite X-Men character used to be Toad. How do you think I feel?

#21 Posted by papad1992 (6815 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

@papad1992 said:

@teerack said:

I could see Husk joining up with her.

I hate what they did to her... she was one of my favorites, and now she is crumbling down to a character written by a half-witted writer!

My favorite X-Men character used to be Toad. How do you think I feel?

Just as gross and angered as I do!

#22 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by McKlayn (1010 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Avalanche died in Uncanny Avengers, Black Tom is Awesome.

And Actually if it would get Husk some book time, i would rather her be with Mystique then limbo :D

#24 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

@mcklayn said:

I think Avalanche died in Uncanny Avengers, Black Tom is Awesome.

I don't remember seeing him die; are you sure?

and, yeah, Black Tom is awesome.

Is he still alive? is he still a plant elemental?

#25 Posted by Silver_Raven (350 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: That's what his profiles say on comic vine and wiki. And even if he was alive i believe he was trying to redeem himself and not be a villain. So what happened to him in UA sucked.

Black Tom is alive but depowered.

If you google Decimation and then look up the wiki page for it there is an extensive list of active mutants, deceased mutants, repowered mutants, and other fun facts and lists. Very helpful too when trying to figure out who's still around.

#26 Posted by jhazzroucher (13979 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I prefer Mystique to remain a hero

#28 Posted by Veitha (2369 posts) - - Show Bio

Mystique, Sabretooth, Lady Mastermind, Toad, Sauron, Astra

#29 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler: That's what his profiles say on comic vine and wiki. And even if he was alive i believe he was trying to redeem himself and not be a villain. So what happened to him in UA sucked.

yeah, I just went back and reread it (UA, issue 1). It seems like that much more of a shame because it seems like the only reason they used him was because he was the only ex-Brotherhood member they could get (well, until they got Scarlet Witch and Rogue). So I guess Mystique's old brotherhood is all dead or depowered except for her and Rogue. And Spiral? wow.

Black Tom is alive but depowered.

If you google Decimation and then look up the wiki page for it there is an extensive list of active mutants, deceased mutants, repowered mutants, and other fun facts and lists. Very helpful too when trying to figure out who's still around.

Thanks. yeah, I check that stuff, but it's not always accurate (or accurately updated), so I like to ask in the event that someone can direct me to an actual issue.

I think I prefer Mystique to remain a hero

like she was when?

#30 Posted by Silver_Raven (350 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: Oooohh, i like Astra. She would be perfect on Mystique's team. But is Toad relevant anymore. He seems like a joke character now.

#31 Posted by Backflip (2252 posts) - - Show Bio

Mystique, Avalanche, Kid Omega, Daken, Mimic, Vanisher, and Juggernaut.

Dream Brotherhood.

#32 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

@backflip said:

Mystique, Avalanche, Kid Omega, Daken, Mimic, Vanisher, and Juggernaut.

Dream Brotherhood.

I like this a bunch, but it does seem a bit of a waste to use Quire as a strait up villain. I think Mastermind would be a better choice..

#33 Posted by Backflip (2252 posts) - - Show Bio

@backflip said:

Mystique, Avalanche, Kid Omega, Daken, Mimic, Vanisher, and Juggernaut.

Dream Brotherhood.

I like this a bunch, but it does seem a bit of a waste to use Quire as a strait up villain. I think Mastermind would be a better choice..

I can't figure out why, but I just dislike Mastermind, and regardless, I'd choose Lady Mastermind if I had to go that route. However, I think Quire actually contributes much more to this team than either of them, both from a power perspective (TP/TK/Intelligence) as opposed to just illusions. Also, who said anything about having Quentin as a straight up villain? Without a doubt, he's a sadist with definite villainous qualities, but he's also confused, spontaneous and conflicted. He'd be no more a straight up villain that Magneto, Mimic, or Juggernaut have been in the past.

#34 Edited by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

@backflip said:

I can't figure out why, but I just dislike Mastermind, and regardless, I'd choose Lady Mastermind if I had to go that route. However, I think Quire actually contributes much more to this team than either of them, both from a power perspective (TP/TK/Intelligence) as opposed to just illusions. Also, who said anything about having Quentin as a straight up villain? Without a doubt, he's a sadist with definite villainous qualities, but he's also confused, spontaneous and conflicted. He'd be no more a straight up villain that Magneto, Mimic, or Juggernaut have been in the past.

oh, when I said Mastermind, I did mean Lady Mastermind; she just doesn't go by that now.

I could see Quire joining a group like this, just to piss off Wolverine, or, as you mentioned, because he was confused or conflicted. I just can't see him actually sticking it out for more than one or two story arcs (though, those would probably be some cool arcs). Lately he seems like he's actually got more of an actual hero in him than he wants anyone to know. So I'd rather see (Lady) Mastermind stick with Mystique; she's fun.

#35 Posted by papad1992 (6815 posts) - - Show Bio

@jhazzroucher said:

I think I prefer Mystique to remain a hero

like she was when?

Like when she acted as an agent for Professor X in her solo series... or when she joined up with Val Cooper's X-Factor team... or when she joined up with Rogue's team (even if it were a ruse).

#36 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

Like when she acted as an agent for Professor X in her solo series... or when she joined up with Val Cooper's X-Factor team... or when she joined up with Rogue's team (even if it were a ruse).

ah, I never read her solo series, but she was definitely a traitor to both X-factor and the X-men.

#37 Posted by papad1992 (6815 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992 said:

Like when she acted as an agent for Professor X in her solo series... or when she joined up with Val Cooper's X-Factor team... or when she joined up with Rogue's team (even if it were a ruse).

ah, I never read her solo series, but she was definitely a traitor to both X-factor and the X-men.

U should read it... and besides her ulterior motives, she did act heroically on both teams.

#38 Edited by M3th (1789 posts) - - Show Bio

Mystique

Sabertooth

[Lady] Mastermind

*SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED UNCANNY X-FORCE*

[evil] Fantomex

Avalanche

Pyro

+ other X-Lady Villains.

#39 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler said:

@papad1992 said:

Like when she acted as an agent for Professor X in her solo series... or when she joined up with Val Cooper's X-Factor team... or when she joined up with Rogue's team (even if it were a ruse).

ah, I never read her solo series, but she was definitely a traitor to both X-factor and the X-men.

U should read it... and besides her ulterior motives, she did act heroically on both teams.

I think "act" is the operative word there.

But, yeah, I'll check that out. I do love Mystique; I just think that if she's not working with an ulterior motive, whether for good or ill, she's being wasted as a character.

#40 Posted by papad1992 (6815 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992 said:

@oldnightcrawler said:

@papad1992 said:

Like when she acted as an agent for Professor X in her solo series... or when she joined up with Val Cooper's X-Factor team... or when she joined up with Rogue's team (even if it were a ruse).

ah, I never read her solo series, but she was definitely a traitor to both X-factor and the X-men.

U should read it... and besides her ulterior motives, she did act heroically on both teams.

I think "act" is the operative word there.

But, yeah, I'll check that out. I do love Mystique; I just think that if she's not working with an ulterior motive, whether for good or ill, she's being wasted as a character.

Yes... "act" is the word emphasized. And operative is the wrong word choice!

She's never wasted as a character... Only when she was working with Osborne in his Dark X-Men! That was a waste. But every other appearance I think of has not been a total waste!

#41 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

She's never wasted as a character... Only when she was working with Osborne in his Dark X-Men! That was a waste. But every other appearance I think of has not been a total waste!

well, like I said, I haven't read her solo book, so I'll reserve judgement.

#42 Posted by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

@silver_raven: what about..

Emplate?

to go with Mystique's new Brotherhood?

He's pretty bad, he's got weird powers, and he has a lot of resources I'm sure the team could put to use (like that flying, disappearing house he lives in).

Or is he even too evil to be on this group? because I'd love to see this group get pretty nasty. There never seems to be enough truly evil villains out there..

#43 Posted by Silver_Raven (350 posts) - - Show Bio

@silver_raven: what about..

Emplate?

to go with Mystique's new Brotherhood?

He's pretty bad, he's got weird powers, and he has a lot of resources I'm sure the team could put to use (like that flying, disappearing house he lives in).

Or is he even too evil to be on this group? because I'd love to see this group get pretty nasty. There never seems to be enough truly evil villains out there..

He is a great villain, but i feel he is too wild and powerful for someone like Mystique. Maybe Selene can make better use of him, if she's look to form a new Inner Circle.

#44 Edited by oldnightcrawler (3493 posts) - - Show Bio

@oldnightcrawler said:

@silver_raven: what about..

Emplate?

to go with Mystique's new Brotherhood?

He's pretty bad, he's got weird powers, and he has a lot of resources I'm sure the team could put to use (like that flying, disappearing house he lives in).

Or is he even too evil to be on this group? because I'd love to see this group get pretty nasty. There never seems to be enough truly evil villains out there..

He is a great villain, but i feel he is too wild and powerful for someone like Mystique. Maybe Selene can make better use of him, if she's look to form a new Inner Circle.

I actually like that idea even more!

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