@josedriveratcr7: "And yes, I know what a phylogenetic tree is; I took evolution classes in college."

Ok, so I'm even more surprised that the presence or the absence of a gene would correlate in your mind with a new species.

"Marvel U. Quicksilver had a child with the Inhuman, Crystal."

We don't know yet if the child will be fertile or not.

"Wolverine is able to have a adamantium skeleton and not die because this is fiction."

"Cyclops is able to shoot beams without breaking his neck because this is fiction."

The main phenotypes associated with their X gene allow that, and you know it. No inconsistency in the MU here.

"Goku is able to bang Chichi and get her pregnant without killing her because this is fiction."

I don't expect the same respect of the story lines in the manga. I'll ask my kids when they will be back from vacation.

"Also, don't go to the extreme, because I didn't go to the extreme, so lets not go to the slipper slopes."

If I hurt you, I'm sorry, it was just to show you what kind of extremism could result if differences within a single gene were sufficient to define a new races.

homo superior was more a parable when scientists like Moira used this word.

You know, I can accept anything from a science fiction book or a comics (Telepathy, FTL, Gods etc...), but once this parameter is introduced in the reality, everything has to be consistent. If not, I'm really not interested.

Yes, the principle of a mutation in human being associated with different positive phenotypes is interesting, and the reaction of the word to the new concept is fascinating. That's one of the main reason I continued to read Comics, and Marvel in particular, when I was a medical student in France, a resident, a fellow or now that I'm more senior in Boston.

To be honest, I had no trouble to speak about the (non?) consistence of a MoS regarding the history of Superman with a new post-doc that just arrived in my lab.

Why, because if you look at the whole universe/multiverse/omniverse created by the writers, they try to be as solid as possible.

In this context, I was truly upset when I saw in this forum a scan of LT presumed dead, and I do not consider that having a X gene activated is enough to define a new species. I gave a full rationale of my arguments in one of my post above.

If your are still not convinced, it's ok. Not everyone is expecting the same thing from a comic book.

I want Joss Whedon Cyclops back

@cheesesticks: they are giving them a roof over their heads, food, security, higher learning and training them to defend themselves and use their powers responsibly. cyke just has a boot camp in the worst place for mutants and is constantly putting them in the line of fire with only his team of unreliable x-men to help protect them. go mutants....... to an early grave.

I like cyclops he's sbown that he can change tsctics with the times and based on the circumstances. I actually would like for the writers to define the mutant revolution a little better

You should be surprised seeing as I already explained that the reason I'm able to accept them as a separate species, subspecies, or race is because I'm able to accept the comics as fiction and suspend my disbelief.

The main phenotypes associated with their X gene allow that, and you know it. No inconsistency in the MU here.

Unless Cyclops' has developed some form of invulnerability that I'm not aware of, no amount of good genetics is going to prevent physics and Newton's law of motion from taking affect when Cyclops launches a huge blast of force at Sentinels like he did in Whedon's run. And I stand by my point that this is fiction and you're overthinking it. The superhero genre is one mostly founded on science fantasy mixed with action/adventure that was aimed for kids. This is the same genre that had a man exposed to radiation and instead of dying or ending up sick, he turned into a giant, green monster. No matter how much modern writers and audience try to treat it as a more adult medium, it will always be founded on ridiculous premised for children. Just look at how they handle political discussion in comics; they often come off like generalized, ill-informed facebook posting. One can often poke holes in the science used in superhero comic books. Razzatazz had a series about the science in comics like Mr.Terrific. Comic books are just fluffy nonsense for entertainment, and to expect serious science from them is nuts.

Wasn't Xavier putting his teen students on the front lines to fight magneto and his team?

Read AvX What If? It's what AVX should've been.

@dayvid3: yeah, it was. but at least they had years of proper training. and that's not the point here. cheeseguy was asking what logan and the funky bunch was doing. i answered.

I agree that the suspension of disbelief is key here.

It allows me to accept the notion of a X gene with so many positive phenotypes associated.

The definition of a species that's something different. It's a clear concept with a clear definition.

What is interesting with the X-Men, is the perception of them by the general population as a real threat, as a race of homo superior that will eliminate homo sapiens sapiens and replace it like we did with our predecessors. While the threat is NOT real.

If you change that and make the X-Men a real new species, you change 50 years of Marvel stories about tolerance of each other difference to a Darwinistic struggle for life of the human race.

What would be the point?

Interest: zero (for me of course).

For Cyclops: we are back to the suspension of disbelief: in the real life, you have plenty of what is called "compensatory mutations".

For example, a bacteria acquired an antibiotic resistance. But there is a fitness cost associated with the antibiotic resistance. So you will often find secondary mutations to compensate this fitness cost.

For Cyclops, to project energy form his eyes is a positive phenotype, if there were a risk associated with the projection of this energy, you will have spontaneous secondary mutations to compensate that. He won't even notice it.

And it has already been shown that the X gene can be associated with several phenotypes in the same mutants (Logan health factor and acute senses, Legion etc...)

As you can see, I can use the suspension of disbelief very far.

But, as I wrote it above, once a parameter has been changed, all the others parameters in the reality has to be preserved to constitute a consistent story. When it's not the case, I stop any effort to follow it.

Anyway, I read the X-Men as a nice hypothesis: how the world will react in face of a sensation of insecurity due to the emergence of mutations with positive phenotypes (threat no real, but dramatic consequences for the mutants: see genosha)

You read it as the interaction between the human race and next step in the evolution.

In that case, just a reminder: If they had the possibility to do so, I guess the Neanderthal would have exterminate the Homo sapiens sapiens.

@furiousweasel: No my reason for hating Wolverine has nothing to do with popularity or his increase and unnecessary abundance in appearing in various titles. Its how Marvel is suddenly portraying him as an important figure in Marvel from running a school, being chummy with everyone, his misinformation of the Phoenix, and his ever growing annoyance of killing the target without consent or thinking the consequences and being responsible for the Flashpo- I mean Age Of Ultron ending reboot.

I just lost any respect I had for him and hate him for his existence. I just miss the old Logan who was just an asshole to everyone, loyal to the X-Men, and was better at being a support character in the X-men over becoming a Headmaster.

To each their own. But imo, he's doing good for his kind... unlike other muties who subjugate themselves to the will of the Avengers, he's stepping up and making sure his kind has a say in anything. He's not a waging a war against humanity at all. He's just doing what America does as well (in the real world i mean), and that's flexing it's muscle and stating that they're here and too stay as well.

Besides... all this wouldn't have happened if the Avengers so aggressively approached Scott on that Day and asserted their self imposed authority all over the X-men. Also, you said when he had the Phoenix, he put people's lives in danger? when? he technically created paradise, and peace was wide spread. He was stable as well, only loose cannons on the P5 were Namor and Emma (it's in their nature to be antagonistic anyways).

@furiousweasel: He believed in a dream his surrogate father spoke about. He believed Magneto was wrong. His personal experience changed that. He slowly saw the dream get blurred through time.

He fell in love with a woman who was a former villain. Society also pushed the X-Men to the brink of their capacity to not lose control. He made an island the last sanctuary for mutants.

I can keep going. It has been a slow process that changed Cykes ideology. I'm sorry so many people missed it.

I suppose I just still can't believe that Cyclops (And others) willingly put the fate of the entire planet on the line just so a handful of strangers with no previous ties to each other could gain superpowers, it seems insane to me.

look at it this way, all of a sudden the world found out that the gene that makes red hair was disappearing and those who would have been redheads were now going to be born with blond, black or brunette hair. If I (being a proud ginger) found out there may be a way to reignite the gene but it would put the lives of over six billion people at risk (Including the potential gingers) would that be acceptable to everyone because that's the kind of unbelievable arrogance we are dealing with here.

yeah, pretty much this.

I like classic Cyclops as much as anyone, but even that's because I liked watching a character who actually changed through the years; Cyclops has come this far in his story, and while I might not think he's made all of the right choices up until now, those choices are his story. And I'd rather his story progressed than regressed or become stagnant.

Although Logan is on somewhat friendly terms with some of the wider superhero community I don'y see him being 'Chummy' anywhere and he still only really trusts and respects a small handful of people.What misinformation about the Phoenix?, he pretty much told them the truth that the force has a history of destroying planets. As for the killing thing, well I think he's been around long enough to know that in reality sometimes those decisions need to be made and followed through on for the safety of others. Lets face it quite a high number of heroes have at times killed enemies (Even boy scouts like Captain America) and because of his reputation Logan makes those decisions so others don't have to.

The Avengers are about protecting everyone on the planet regardless of who or what they are and have historically been Earth's first line of defense against this kind of major cosmic threat, it's a pretty insane to think that they would just accept Cyclops decision to put the entire human race on the line for the sake of a handful of people gaining superpowers. And the whole 'his kind' argument is pretty invalid considering he's spent his entire adult life fighting to convince bigots that mutants and non mutants are the same species and being born a mutant is no different from being born black, white, gay, straight, blond brunette etc.

@furiousweasel: I'm well aware heroes have killed and accepted it. I just find that Wolverines actions just make the situation worse with his maverick personality killing and has gotten worse with him him wanting to kill young Scott and Hank from the past. As to Wolverine's misinformation I believe your forgetting Rachel, from what I understand she has had the most success in using the Phoenix during her days in Excalibur and the X-men. So yes I still hold that Logan wasn't giving out the full details.

Cyclops was one of the very best characters in Marvel. Subtle, understated and, quite frankly, brilliant.

Of course he had to be destroyed and replaced with a bad parody of a caricature.

that's always been the thing that bugged me, and it really was his most Magneto-like decision. But I do think he had to have one of those, and one that would really effect things, for his character to get past those kinds of comparisons. Now he has to move forward with the same kind of self-justifying doubt that Magneto carries, and the man himself always right there to remind him. Now he has to redeem himself for something no one else would have done, but the redemption that will come from it will mean that much more because of how far he's strayed. Only Cyclops could be in this role and have it pan out in such an epic way, have it mean so much.

Either way I would still love to see him start to take on mission similar to DC's suicide squad all in an attempt to find redemption.