Enough of the insane Cyclops

  • 67 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Posted by FuriousWeasel (146 posts) - - Show Bio

Has anyone else had enough of this insane Cyclops rubbish?

First he goes on a extended wide-eyed rant about the 'death' of the mutant race ignoring the fact that not only are they not a separate race nobody was actually going to die and no less people were being born, just that they were not going to develop active mutations.

Then, using the Phoenix Force (A known destroyer of worlds) he literally risks the lives of everyone on the planet on the off-chance that more mutants would appear making that monumental decision for the entire population. Not only would the vast majority of these new mutants not want to be mutants if they were given that choice many will monstrously mutate in a similar vein to Glob Herman or Seamus Melloncamp and from then on never has anything resembling a 'normal' life met only with revulsion by others because of their appearance.

And finally, when mutants do start to reappear Cyclops recruits them at a time of huge emotional distress into his renegade 'X-Men' team manipulating them into his ridiculous 'War on humanity'

#2 Posted by time (5921 posts) - - Show Bio

I think right now what Cyclops is doing makes no sense.

#3 Posted by Wolverine08 (49114 posts) - - Show Bio

He is a d%ck. So I'm fine with his current extremist/crazy state. Lol.

#4 Posted by time (5921 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I don't mind him now, loved when he told the Avengers to go to hell. He still doesn't make any sense in what he doing. How can he open a School, if he is a wanted man.

#5 Posted by M3th (2106 posts) - - Show Bio

I love the direction he is going. It is a huge character development. I even like Wolverine's direction he is taking.

It makes sense to me. If it doesn't for you. Tough. Just because you can't enjoy the story doesn't mean everyone else can't either.

Again, I personally enjoy the story and find it entertaining.

#6 Edited by TekTheNinja (776 posts) - - Show Bio

Has anyone else had enough of this insane Cyclops rubbish?

First he goes on a extended wide-eyed rant about the 'death' of the mutant race ignoring the fact that not only are they not a separate race nobody was actually going to die and no less people were being born, just that they were not going to develop active mutations.

Then, using the Phoenix Force (A known destroyer of worlds) he literally risks the lives of everyone on the planet on the off-chance that more mutants would appear making that monumental decision for the entire population. Not only would the vast majority of these new mutants not want to be mutants if they were given that choice many will monstrously mutate in a similar vein to Glob Herman or Seamus Melloncamp and from then on never has anything resembling a 'normal' life met only with revulsion by others because of their appearance.

And finally, when mutants do start to reappear Cyclops recruits them at a time of huge emotional distress into his renegade 'X-Men' team manipulating them into his ridiculous 'War on humanity'

i agree completely.

#7 Edited by Perethorn (5126 posts) - - Show Bio

So...Cyclops is becoming like Magneto.

#8 Posted by knighthood (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@m3th said:

I love the direction he is going. It is a huge character development.

co-sign

#9 Posted by Ultra_beleco (184 posts) - - Show Bio

@m3th said:

I love the direction he is going. It is a huge character development. I even like Wolverine's direction he is taking.

It makes sense to me. If it doesn't for you. Tough. Just because you can't enjoy the story doesn't mean everyone else can't either.

Again, I personally enjoy the story and find it entertaining.

This!

#10 Edited by time (5921 posts) - - Show Bio

@m3th: How does it makes any sense, in what he doing. Care to explain.

#11 Posted by M3th (2106 posts) - - Show Bio

@time: Slim was a boy scout for years. He had a blind belief Magneto was wrong and X was righteous.

The professor made mistakes and shook Scott's faith. He (Summers) fell in love with a complicated woman or with a previous villain. To add to this he loses faith in Humanity, teams up with Magneto the original Mutant Revolutionarist, and that is how it makes sense to me.

#12 Posted by Dayvid3 (915 posts) - - Show Bio

I like what he's doing. Yeah the whole assuming phoenix was gonna help mutants made no sense to me, but that was the writing I think, since they did make it work out that way

Actually I'm mostly irritated with all the accusations thrown his way. They were possessed by some cosmic force. Everyone deals with all kinds of crazy crap on a daily basis, but they have no tolerance or understanding of that?

I'm not sure what his endgame is. Train new mutants, and just protect mutant interests when threatened? Doesn't seem nutty in their world

#13 Posted by Cyclops4President (587 posts) - - Show Bio

@furiousweasel: You guys are crazy. Cyclops is the least insane mutant right now, he's not manipulating anyone. Everyone on his team is there by choice and that has been evident in ever issue thus far. Angel joined on his own accord, Fabio asked to quit and then rejoined after SHIELD kidnapped him, the cuckoos joined on their own, and he and his team are not waging war on humanity, they just aren't taking any $h!t from anyone, and they actually haven't hurt anyone or fought anyone in the Uncanny X-Men series. The worse that has happened is Tempus has frozen the Avengers and some SHIELD agents in time temporarily. Scott is actually a less of a dick now than he has ever been. He even asked Dazzler if she wanted to join even after he knew she kidnapped Fabio. When she said no, then he was a dick. I'm cool with that. He is super chill right now actually. Relax read more Uncanny X-Men to find out what he really is all about right now.

#14 Posted by PeppeyHare (4328 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops is more popular right now than he has been in years. He isn't insane and he isn't a villain. He just has different beliefs and viewpoints

#15 Edited by Dayvid3 (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Are there that many fans who think he's crazy or is it just all the hypocritical characters?

#16 Posted by coolbeans (250 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops has become one of my favorite characters ever since Hope was born. He has made some tough decisions, but he feels like what he is doing is for the better of mutant-kind. I hope he keeps being a strong leader. Props to Marvel for turning him into his own character and not some cookie cutter super hero team leader.

#17 Posted by Avenger85 (3255 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry but the older, slightly less sane version is here to stay. The younger, less insane version that both you and I like will be the one amongst the O5 to die. So unfortunately we're stuck with Current cyclops.

#18 Posted by Rickbarry (1981 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by gambit75 (57 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops has become one of my favorite characters ever since Hope was born. He has made some tough decisions, but he feels like what he is doing is for the better of mutant-kind. I hope he keeps being a strong leader. Props to Marvel for turning him into his own character and not some cookie cutter super hero team leader.

OFT

#21 Posted by darthphoenix (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

i love the new cyclops. he aint a boyscout afterall

#22 Posted by kriminal (676 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked him in avx. but I bought the first 3 issues and issue 6 of the marvel now uncanny and didn't really like it. its weird because I love magneto and I have enjoyed and bought every all new x-men. ill see what happen after battle of the atom, which I will get all 10, and maybe catch up after

#23 Posted by God_Spawn (39646 posts) - - Show Bio

First he goes on a extended wide-eyed rant about the 'death' of the mutant race ignoring the fact that not only are they not a separate race nobody was actually going to die and no less people were being born, just that they were not going to develop active mutations.

You do realize that the mutants are a separate race, correct? They are born with their abilities, hence being called homo-superior since they are a different species. And they are perfect allegories for longstanding issues that were very predominant amongst the original time period of their conception. This aspect hasn't really changed much since that was the reason for their creation and we still have groups like the Purifiers and sentinels still being used and active in comics today, so yes, there are still groups hunting down mutants, at least whichever ones remained. And you do know that when Scarlet Witch committed genocide, she killed slews of mutants that were dependent on their mutations just for sustaining life, correct? With some mutants still being active and plenty killed, they had a very good chance at being wiped out since their numbers dwindled to barely 200.

Then, using the Phoenix Force (A known destroyer of worlds) he literally risks the lives of everyone on the planet on the off-chance that more mutants would appear making that monumental decision for the entire population.

If you didn't notice, a lot of characters were written out of character in AvX. Cap showed up on Utopia with SHIELD and Helicarrier support in case Cyclops just said no. Cap wasn't up for negotiating but neither character showed any common sense when they could've tried to handle the situation together. Seriously, a simple phone call could have done wonders but neither men seemed to have thought of that. And in Cap's defense, he isn't dumb enough to show up without aid, but in Cyclops' defense, he finally found a means to an end of his goal of protecting his race and he was also trying to train Hope to do this. He laid his cards on the table and he had his back against the wall for awhile prior to that event. He realized that Xavier's methods were not working, hence why he was doing things his own way and he did a great job at protecting his race and the people he was taught to protect as well. So to seriously deny all of that for one bad instance of characterization for both parties is no excuse for just attacking one of them.

Not only would the vast majority of these new mutants not want to be mutants if they were given that choice many will monstrously mutate in a similar vein to Glob Herman or Seamus Melloncamp and from then on never has anything resembling a 'normal' life met only with revulsion by others because of their appearance.

Welcome to the X-Men. Where none of them had a choice in the matter anyway. Nothing has ever really seemed easy for the X-Men, or mutants in general. Like I said, they are hated and feared for just being born. And how do you know vast majority of those people wouldn't want to become a mutant and have the chance to get superpowers and become heroes? Or do the inverse and get powers and commit crimes? Not all mutants turn into Glob Herman. Most of the mutants seem to do fine for themselves. Wolverine's had how many women? Cyclops and Emma seemed happy together for a long time. Beast is banging Abigail Brand so he seems to be doing fine for being big and fuzzy. Gambit gets a lot of chicks despite his black and red eyes. Beak had Angel. MANY of the X-Men have had relationships and not all of them looked like normal people to begin with. And there are places for the mutants to go to, to lead a normal life, hence the New Xavier school or the Jean Grey Institute and formerly the old Xavier Institute. They can go to these places so they can get an education. So they can train their abilities. So they can make friends. So they can feel apart of a family. Seriously, this point is completely arbitrary and you only seem to pull it out to try and make your argument look stronger when it's been a focal point of the mutants since day one.

And finally, when mutants do start to reappear Cyclops recruits them at a time of huge emotional distress into his renegade 'X-Men' team manipulating them into his ridiculous 'War on humanity'

First thing Scott said when he got out of jail was he is going to do what he has always done: protect a world that hates and fears mutants. He's never once "manipulated" any mutant into joining his side and has given them choices to join him or not. He just asked Dazzler and when she refused he left it alone. He felt bad for what happened with Benjamin and gave him an offer to join and asked him to just check it out. He saved Fabio from being potentially killed by police officers and when Fabio wanted to leave, Scott hand delivered him home and when Fabio was in trouble he saved him. He didn't force any of the Xavier students to go and only ended up leaving with four students in its entirety. In fact, Scott was the primary guy trying to prevent anyone from the Jean Grey Institute from fighting. Logan was the one getting up in peoples' faces. When Jean was flying off of the handle and the Cuckoos and Emma were frying her brain, Scott was the one the stop it. He has also stated numerous times that he is incredibly thankful for the support people are showing him and that he will protect them as well. The whole point of his revolution is for him to be on the offensive for once. He isn't just going to sit around waiting for things to happen like they used to. He isn't just going around just blasting every human in sight. He isn't actively taking lives of anyone. He doesn't want to either. His position does make sense when you figure all of the crap he's been through and has seen.

Honestly, a lot of your points are biased. I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but you are basically ignoring key points in the X-verse and that just sends the wrong message.

Moderator
#24 Edited by Guardian_of_Gravity (2990 posts) - - Show Bio

There is such a thing as negative character development. But knowing comic books, someone won't take the logical step of putting away Hitler with laser eyes in the Hague for a half decade and get some psychological profiling.

And also imprisoning sniktbub for criminal spotlight hogging.

#25 Posted by ssejllenrad (13028 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Edited by God_Spawn (39646 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#27 Edited by CheeseSticks (2822 posts) - - Show Bio

At least he's helping his fellow Mutants. Look at Beast, Storm and Wolverine and tell me they're doing more things than Cyke for the Mutant race.

#28 Posted by cameron83 (8003 posts) - - Show Bio

The only thing I hate is this "War on Humanity" bull route that he's going. That's almost literally anti-progressive and anti-unity.

And some other things....

#29 Edited by JonSmith (4324 posts) - - Show Bio

To expand on the last bit of Spawn's post, and elaborate on Cyclops' current position for all of you saying he's insane, or less sane than he has been previously: He's not. He's just playing the game from more sides.

First things first, to explain the purpose behind his X-Men. Way I see it, you need three fronts to give yourself the best odds of winning a war. And make no mistake, there IS a human/mutant war taking place in the Marvel U. It's quiet, but it's there. Mutants are constantly being attacked out of fear and hatred. That's either a war, or genocide. Anyway, the three fronts are as follows:

Public Relations Front: You need a PR group to win hearts and minds among the civilian populace. Keep everyone's morale up, remind everyone what you're fighting for and why this fight needs to be won, along with convincing civilians to help however they can.

Defensive Front: You need a force to protect the civilian populace from attackers, keep them safe and insure that when the war's over, there's something to return to. If necessary, teaching the populace to defend themselves in case they're needed in the war.

And an Offensive Front: You need a force to go out there and beat the attackers, put them down and end the war, while simultaneously taking care of the dirty work the other two simply can't take care of or don't want to show the populace.

Now, after the Phoenix brought back mutants, for the first time, they had the first two fronts covered: Captain America and Havok's Uncanny Avengers, showing that not only can humans and mutants coexist, but they can work together for a better and brighter future. Ideally. Really hasn't worked out like that, but they're trying. That's the Public Relations Front.

The Defensive Front is Wolverine's Jean Grey School for the Higher Learning, and it's staff. They're the ones protecting young mutants while trying to insure they don't have to fight, defending them to their dying breath and giving them a place to belong.

So Cyclops' team fulfills the Offensive Front: His X-Men are the ones who go out and get their hands dirty, putting down threats and trying to keep the humans from butchering the mutants before they can get their second wind.

Of course, since the other two teams are still standing by Xavier's dream of peaceful coexistence, and thus, refuse to consider the conflict a war, this puts him at odds with them, effectively making him the image of a 'bad mutant', the Magneto.

Which brings me back to my statement that he's playing the game from more sides: He's an X-Man first. He still believes in Xavier's dream, but he no longer has to be the golden model of patience, waiting ever so nicely for humans to grow up and accept mutantkind. They're intent on making him the Magneto? Fine, he can be that. He and his X-Men can go do the dirty work, put down the threats that the Uncanny Avengers can't acknowledge are there due to their PR status, or the threats that would place the students of Wolverine's school at risk.

And if the other two fronts attack him? If he needs to send a message that mutants are not to be ****ed with, he can push it and counter their attack. If people are getting too scared of mutants, he can have his team run away, or take a fall to make the other two fronts look good to the public. Since he's the main big bad mutant, no other mutant can step up to take that spot, so not only are all the fronts covered, but he can control the major mutant conflicts.

The result is he's still fighting for Xavier's dream of human/mutant coexistence, but he no longer has to sit out and stand back from conflicts to keep from scaring humans, because the other two fronts, the good guys as far as the public is concerned, can handle the niceties, and he's the bad guy, so he can do whatever.

Then again, perhaps I'm way off and Cyclops is just bat**** nuts.

#30 Posted by Outside_85 (12449 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I am going to point out that mutants aren't a separate race from a biological point of view, because none of the mutants really have anything in common with each other save the diversity. Also, if I am not mistaken, the x-gene is in every human being in the Marvel U, only in regular people it's remained inactive while in mutants it's been triggered. Finally (again correct me if I am wrong), Homo Superior, is a term Magneto coined in order to fuel his own ego and those of his followers the same way other genocidal nut jobs try to promote their line, faith, tribe or color as the superior one and should be allowed to rule the land.

Online
#31 Edited by FuriousWeasel (146 posts) - - Show Bio

@m3th said:

I love the direction he is going. It is a huge character development. I even like Wolverine's direction he is taking.

It makes sense to me. If it doesn't for you. Tough. Just because you can't enjoy the story doesn't mean everyone else can't either.

Again, I personally enjoy the story and find it entertaining.

That's my point, it doesn't make sense, his new outlook goes against everything he has believed in for practically his entire life.

#32 Posted by FuriousWeasel (146 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn:

First he goes on a extended wide-eyed rant about the 'death' of the mutant race ignoring the fact that not only are they not a separate race nobody was actually going to die and no less people were being born, just that they were not going to develop active mutations.

You do realize that the mutants are a separate race, correct? They are born with their abilities, hence being called homo-superior since they are a different species. And they are perfect allegories for longstanding issues that were very predominant amongst the original time period of their conception. This aspect hasn't really changed much since that was the reason for their creation and we still have groups like the Purifiers and sentinels still being used and active in comics today, so yes, there are still groups hunting down mutants, at least whichever ones remained. And you do know that when Scarlet Witch committed genocide, she killed slews of mutants that were dependent on their mutations just for sustaining life, correct? With some mutants still being active and plenty killed, they had a very good chance at being wiped out since their numbers dwindled to barely 200.

Then, using the Phoenix Force (A known destroyer of worlds) he literally risks the lives of everyone on the planet on the off-chance that more mutants would appear making that monumental decision for the entire population.

If you didn't notice, a lot of characters were written out of character in AvX. Cap showed up on Utopia with SHIELD and Helicarrier support in case Cyclops just said no. Cap wasn't up for negotiating but neither character showed any common sense when they could've tried to handle the situation together. Seriously, a simple phone call could have done wonders but neither men seemed to have thought of that. And in Cap's defense, he isn't dumb enough to show up without aid, but in Cyclops' defense, he finally found a means to an end of his goal of protecting his race and he was also trying to train Hope to do this. He laid his cards on the table and he had his back against the wall for awhile prior to that event. He realized that Xavier's methods were not working, hence why he was doing things his own way and he did a great job at protecting his race and the people he was taught to protect as well. So to seriously deny all of that for one bad instance of characterization for both parties is no excuse for just attacking one of them.

Not only would the vast majority of these new mutants not want to be mutants if they were given that choice many will monstrously mutate in a similar vein to Glob Herman or Seamus Melloncamp and from then on never has anything resembling a 'normal' life met only with revulsion by others because of their appearance.

Welcome to the X-Men. Where none of them had a choice in the matter anyway. Nothing has ever really seemed easy for the X-Men, or mutants in general. Like I said, they are hated and feared for just being born. And how do you know vast majority of those people wouldn't want to become a mutant and have the chance to get superpowers and become heroes? Or do the inverse and get powers and commit crimes? Not all mutants turn into Glob Herman. Most of the mutants seem to do fine for themselves. Wolverine's had how many women? Cyclops and Emma seemed happy together for a long time. Beast is banging Abigail Brand so he seems to be doing fine for being big and fuzzy. Gambit gets a lot of chicks despite his black and red eyes. Beak had Angel. MANY of the X-Men have had relationships and not all of them looked like normal people to begin with. And there are places for the mutants to go to, to lead a normal life, hence the New Xavier school or the Jean Grey Institute and formerly the old Xavier Institute. They can go to these places so they can get an education. So they can train their abilities. So they can make friends. So they can feel apart of a family. Seriously, this point is completely arbitrary and you only seem to pull it out to try and make your argument look stronger when it's been a focal point of the mutants since day one.

And finally, when mutants do start to reappear Cyclops recruits them at a time of huge emotional distress into his renegade 'X-Men' team manipulating them into his ridiculous 'War on humanity'

First thing Scott said when he got out of jail was he is going to do what he has always done: protect a world that hates and fears mutants. He's never once "manipulated" any mutant into joining his side and has given them choices to join him or not. He just asked Dazzler and when she refused he left it alone. He felt bad for what happened with Benjamin and gave him an offer to join and asked him to just check it out. He saved Fabio from being potentially killed by police officers and when Fabio wanted to leave, Scott hand delivered him home and when Fabio was in trouble he saved him. He didn't force any of the Xavier students to go and only ended up leaving with four students in its entirety. In fact, Scott was the primary guy trying to prevent anyone from the Jean Grey Institute from fighting. Logan was the one getting up in peoples' faces. When Jean was flying off of the handle and the Cuckoos and Emma were frying her brain, Scott was the one the stop it. He has also stated numerous times that he is incredibly thankful for the support people are showing him and that he will protect them as well. The whole point of his revolution is for him to be on the offensive for once. He isn't just going to sit around waiting for things to happen like they used to. He isn't just going around just blasting every human in sight. He isn't actively taking lives of anyone. He doesn't want to either. His position does make sense when you figure all of the crap he's been through and has seen.

Honestly, a lot of your points are biased. I'm not trying to attack you or anything, but you are basically ignoring key points in the X-verse and that just sends the wrong message.

Mutants are not a separate race, a view that Cyclops has been fighting for since he was a teenager. Where does it stop, if you are born with a natural talent for drawing or for quickly picking up dance moves, does that make you a mutant and a part of a separate race?

My point about the monstrous mutations is that unlike Cyclops who lucked out by being a handsome still human looking man many mutants will be physically mutated to such a level that even if you have no problems with mutants and all mutants were accepted into society they will still be met with revulsion and pity because of their appearance. These mutants will most likely never have a comfortable life or a relationship with another. Seriously , think about it, if you mutated to look like Glob Herman or had a mutation that devastates your life and you found out that Scott Summers made that decision for you and if it wasn't for him you'd be 'normal' how angry would you be at him. Also not everyone has a nice heroic personality, what about all the mutants who will become criminals and outright villains all the criminal activity and even death they cause is know on Scott's head.

#33 Edited by CheeseSticks (2822 posts) - - Show Bio


Mutants are not a separate race, a view that Cyclops has been fighting for since he was a teenager. Where does it stop, if you are born with a natural talent for drawing or for quickly picking up dance moves, does that make you a mutant and a part of a separate race?

My point about the monstrous mutations is that unlike Cyclops who lucked out by being a handsome still human looking man many mutants will be physically mutated to such a level that even if you have no problems with mutants and all mutants were accepted into society they will still be met with revulsion and pity because of their appearance. These mutants will most likely never have a comfortable life or a relationship with another. Seriously , think about it, if you mutated to look like Glob Herman or had a mutation that devastates your life and you found out that Scott Summers made that decision for you and if it wasn't for him you'd be 'normal' how angry would you be at him. Also not everyone has a nice heroic personality, what about all the mutants who will become criminals and outright villains all the criminal activity and even death they cause is know on Scott's head.

What the? Are you serious, you think having a x-gene is like being talented in something? Yes the Mutant are a different race because they all have something in common that differentiate them from normal human.

I don't even understand the second highlighted text. Are you saying that Scott is wrong because he created more mutants? He just repaired what Wanda did in House of M. I would not be angry because i'm not normal anymore, being normal isn't super fun. You fight for what you are. Why would you be sad because you change? It's done, accept it and fight for it. As for the mutant criminals devastating cities, cops are there for a reason. Look at how they love to hunt Mutant.

#34 Posted by FuriousWeasel (146 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm saying there wasn't really anything to repair, so people weren't suddenly gaining (Mostly unwanted) superpowers? so what? no less people were being born and no more people were dying and to put the entire planet at risk for something that doesn't really matter is ridiculous.

#35 Edited by FuriousWeasel (146 posts) - - Show Bio

At least he's helping his fellow Mutants. Look at Beast, Storm and Wolverine and tell me they're doing more things than Cyke for the Mutant race.

That's kind of my point, people like Wolverine and the majority of the superhuman community are focusing on the safety and preservation of the entire planet and everyone on it, billions of people (Which is why I sided with the Avengers during the AVX debacle, their views weren't anti-mutant they were about saving everyone, that's what heroes do) which is what the X-Men also used to do, they were heroes first who just happened to have been born with their abilities rather than gained them from outside sources. Cyclops recent mindset goes against all of this and his stupidity with the Phoenix not only put the entire human race at risk, he risked their lives on the off-chance that a few may gain powers, something that in reality didn't actually need to be done.

#36 Edited by Alch21 (221 posts) - - Show Bio

@furiousweasel said:

@cheesesticks said:

At least he's helping his fellow Mutants. Look at Beast, Storm and Wolverine and tell me they're doing more things than Cyke for the Mutant race.

That's kind of my point, people like Wolverine and the majority of the superhuman community are focusing on the safety and preservation of the entire planet and everyone on it, billions of people (Which is why I sided with the Avengers during the AVX debacle, their views weren't anti-mutant they were about saving everyone, that's what heroes do) which is what the X-Men also used to do, they were heroes first who just happened to have been born with their abilities rather than gained them from outside sources. Cyclops recent mindset goes against all of this and his stupidity with the Phoenix not only put the entire human race at risk, he risked their lives on the off-chance that a few may gain powers, something that in reality didn't actually need to be done.

When has anyone other than Wolverine himself been a superhero on a greater scale. All they seem to be doing is being holed up at some school while the Avengers save the universe and Cyclops saves mutants from being gunned down. Those glorified teachers won't lift a finger if it means looking bad in front of the government because they have a school of 30 students to protect. Who is going to save the mutant who's being gunned down by the cops? Not those "X-men". And of course the risk of the Phoenix was well worth it, not only is evolution of the human race back on track, people who want to gun for them can't "finish them off" and how many superheros has he created that could save the world 100 times in the future. Who fights Ultron when all the heroes are dead?

#37 Posted by Alch21 (221 posts) - - Show Bio

And lets not forgot which team defeated Dormammu (non-mutant related threat). And which teams struggling with the New Hellfire Club (Mutant specific threat)

#38 Posted by John Valentine (16427 posts) - - Show Bio

Someone's a little butthurt.

#39 Posted by waezi2 (11958 posts) - - Show Bio

@guardian_of_gravity: Please define "character development", because I think I disagree with you. If "character development" is turning a characters into someone totally new without proper and logical buildup and like, then yes, there is, according to my opinion, bad character development.

#40 Posted by Selina_Sublime (192 posts) - - Show Bio

Insane Cyclops is not only the most interesting Cyclops, but I love what he instigates within the X-Men. He's a controversial character that divides people instead of being the staple everyone was indifferent to but accustomed to seeing appear.

The only thing I'd like to see occur more often is for him to be held accountable more often; before the Phoenix Five he seemed to stand largely unopposed to his controversial methods. He's only fun if he has strong and valid opposition (and Wolverine doesn't really cut it--that divide has been pretty irrational).

#41 Posted by BullPR (2210 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: "You do realize that the mutants are a separate race, correct? They are born with their abilities, hence being called homo-superior since they are a different species."

That's an interesting point/observation, base of the X-men stories and a lot of Science-fictions books (one of the best example would be Slans from AE Van Vogt...70 years ago!).

There is a biological answer (i) and a sociological answer (ii).

(i) Biological answer: no, it is NOT a different species.

In the logic of the Marvel Universe, all the mutants are Homo sapiens sapiens with a mutation in one gene (the X gene).

Then you have a lot of phenotypes associated with this mutation.

In the real life, a mutation if the cftr gene for example is associated with the cystic fibrosis. But each person will have his own manifestation of the disease.

When a gene controls several pathways, you often have different phenotypes associated with variations of the gene.

It's easier and easier to sequence the whole genomes of humans.

One of the goal is then aligning them and check similarities and differences trying to correlate genetic and phenotypes (mainly diseases)

To speak about a new species you need much much more than ONE mutation.

(See below a recent abstract from an article about the genetic diversity with Neanderthal)

(ii) sociological answer

When a mutation is associated with a visible phenotype (for example albinism), a very common reaction it's to feel that this mutant is different. At the extreme, they can be chased for being different. In the comics, or in the science-fiction books, the whole story is about: "What if a mutation is associated with a positive phenotype? A better fitness to breath underwater? Parapsy abilities etc..."

In the real life, for the moment, we are only focused on the negative phenotypes and the weakness associated with them (diseases etc..).

But in theory you could have mutations associated with incredible increase in the fitness (in bacteriology you see that all the time: for example a mutation associated with antibiotic resistance allowing the pathogens to survive in the infected host whatever the treatment we would prescribe).

The whole game with the X-men is that they present a mutation with positive phenotypes!!

It's very fun when you think about it.

People, in the real life, feel sorry for the mutations with the negative phenotypes (Down's syndrome, cancers etc..), It's logical to assume that by contrast, the same people could feel threaten by mutants with increased, superior, abilities.

And logical also to assume that some of these mutants would consider themselves as superior and that one of their leader would even try to gather all the mutants under the same "code name": Homo superior.

It would not make any sense in a biological point of view. But in their reality, in their society, it would be a good flag to assemble people sharing the same unique genetic trait.

And because of the genocide of Genosha and the perpetual persecution of the people with an activated X gene etc, etc..., the mutants in the MU are now part of a "nation", with their own traditions, legends, heroes, hope for peace, hope for an independent country etc...

Conclusion

For me, to be consistent with the logic build in the Marvel Universe since the 60s, the mutants (as defined above) are now part of the same community. To say that this community is a new race is the based of the intolerance against them.

In a totally different topic, as I wrote in a previous post, during 30+ years I was laughing each time I was reading a comics with Cyclops, until he became a respected leader of a community that was on the verge of the extinction. I LOVED what he became confronted to this incredibly difficult situation. I HATED the BS that was Avengers vs X-Men.

Gene. 2013 Jul 19. pii: S0378-1119(13)00756-7. doi: 10.1016/j.gene.2013.06.005. [Epub ahead of print]

Neanderthal and Denisova genetic affinities with contemporary humans: Introgression versus common ancestral polymorphisms.

Lowery RK, Uribe G, Jimenez EB, Weiss MA, Herrera KJ, Regueiro M, Herrera RJ.

Source

Department of Molecular and Human Genetics, College of Medicine, Florida International University, Miami, FL 33199, USA; Department of Biological Sciences, College of Arts and Sciences, Florida International University, Miami, FL 33199, USA; Department of Biological Sciences, College of Arts and Sciences, Indian River State College, Miami, FL 33199, USA. Electronic address: rlowe001@fiu.edu.

Abstract

Analyses of the genetic relationships and interactions among modern humans, Neanderthals and Denisovans have suggested that 1-4% of the non-Sub-Saharan African gene pool may be Neanderthal derived, while 6-8% of the Melanesian gene pool may be the product of admixture between the Denisovans and the direct ancestors of Melanesians. In the present study, we analyzed single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) diversity among a worldwide collection of contemporary human populations with respect to the genetic constitution of these two archaic hominids and Pan troglodytes (chimpanzee). We partitioned SNPs into subsets, including those that are derived in both archaic lineages, those that are ancestral in both archaic lineages and those that are only derived in one archaic lineage. By doing this, we have conducted separate examinations of subsets of mutations with higher probabilities of divergent phylogenetic origins. While previous investigations have excluded SNPs from common ancestors in principal component analyses, we included common ancestral SNPs in our analyses to visualize the relative placement of the Neanderthal and Denisova among human populations. To assess the genetic similarities among the various hominid lineages, we performed genetic structure analyses to provide a comparison of genetic patterns found within contemporary human genomes that may have archaic or common ancestral roots. Our results indicate that 3.6% of the Neanderthal genome is shared with roughly 65.4% of the average European gene pool, which clinally diminishes with distance from Europe. Our results suggest that Neanderthal genetic associations with contemporary non-Sub-Saharan African populations, as well as the genetic affinities observed between Denisovans and Melanesians most likely result from the retention of ancient mutations in these populations.

#42 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1020 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Mutants are a separate species. The entire franchise has been built on this.

2. Prof X does and has always believed they were a separate species and what Cyclops fought for was to be treated equally. I can pull out panels if I need to.

3.Wanda and M-Day made it so no new babies could be born mutants. That's why Hope was such a big deal.

4.The Phoenix is a manifestation of life. If it wanted to destroy Earth there was literally nothing anyone could do about it (The Avengers tried and failed), and in trying to stop it you're trying to stop the universe's and nature's plan in the grand design.

5.You don't know whether the majority of these new mutants hate being mutants. Even if they do, it's likely because they don't want to face the bigotry non-mutants hold for them.

6.Cyclops isn't raging a war against humanity. He clearly stated in UXM that he appreciates the support from non-mutants. His war is against corruption, abuse, and bigotry.

#43 Posted by tigerkaya (1421 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I don't know I applaud Cyclops in fighting against the corruption part of humanity. I'm really not that bothered by Cyclops actions so long as they stay in the X-men mythos. Plus if screws with Wolverine the better.

#44 Posted by Dayvid3 (915 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Edited by FuriousWeasel (146 posts) - - Show Bio

@josedriveratcr7: They are not a separate species and the X-Men have never previously thought so. The very point of the X-Men was to show the general populace that they were just humans who were, through no actions of their own, born with amazing abilities in the same vein as being born black, gay, blond, tall, short etc.

#46 Edited by FuriousWeasel (146 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya: Why the hatred for Wolverine? if it's just because he's popular or in lots of titles then that's pretty sad.

#47 Posted by BullPR (2210 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Mutants are a separate species. The entire franchise has been built on this.

No. Definitely not. The franchise has been built on the discrimination with the jews and the antisemitism behind the mind of the writers. To fail to recognize that is too miss a lot of the social impact of the X-men.

2. Prof X does and has always believed they were a separate species and what Cyclops fought for was to be treated equally. I can pull out panels if I need to.

What is your definition of a species???

Do you seriously believe that a kid from a human and a "mutant" would be an hybrid like a mule (Horse and Donkey?)

Going to the extreme will be to speak about different species because the color of the skin is different.

Do you know what is a phylogenetic tree? See an example here

3.Wanda and M-Day made it so no new babies could be born mutants. That's why Hope was such a big deal.

4.The Phoenix is a manifestation of life. If it wanted to destroy Earth there was literally nothing anyone could do about it (The Avengers tried and failed), and in trying to stop it you're trying to stop the universe's and nature's plan in the grand design.

5.You don't know whether the majority of these new mutants hate being mutants. Even if they do, it's likely because they don't want to face the bigotry non-mutants hold for them.

6.Cyclops isn't raging a war against humanity. He clearly stated in UXM that he appreciates the support from non-mutants. His war is against corruption, abuse, and bigotry.

I totally agree with the rest of your post

#50 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1020 posts) - - Show Bio

@bullpr: No. Definitely not. The franchise has been built on the discrimination with the jews and the antisemitism behind the mind of the writers. To fail to recognize that is too miss a lot of the social impact of the X-men.

That's what I meant. In fact, my second point alludes to that. Also, it wasn't just antisemitism. It bigotry of all forms.

What is your definition of a species???

Do you seriously believe that a kid from a human and a "mutant" would be an hybrid like a mule (Horse and Donkey?)

Going to the extreme will be to speak about different species because the color of the skin is different.

Do you know what is a phylogenetic tree? See an example here

My definition of a species is what the book(s) tells me. And when it comes to hybrids, that stuff happens all the time in fiction, and in the Marvel U. Quicksilver had a child with the Inhuman, Crystal. Agent Brand is half alien. This is all possible because this is all fiction. Wolverine is able to have a adamantium skeleton and not die because this is fiction. Cyclops is able to shoot beams without breaking his neck because this is fiction. Goku is able to bang Chichi and get her pregnant without killing her because this is fiction. Also, don't go to the extreme, because I didn't go to the extreme, so lets not go to the slipper slopes. And yes, I know what a phylogenetic tree is; I took evolution classes in college.

@josedriveratcr7: They are not a separate species and the X-Men have never previously thought so. The very point of the X-Men was to show the general populace that they were just humans who were, through no actions of their own, born with amazing abilities in the same vein as being born black, gay, blond, tall, short etc.

Right now mutants are classified as a species or subspecies. [1][2] And mutants have been referred to as a different race or species for most, if not all, of the history of X-Men comics. And really, when it comes down to sci-fi, species and race are interchangeable terms. Also, just as we have a social construct of race in real life, there is one in the MU when it comes to mutants.

[1]http://marvel.wikia.com/Homo_superior

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutant_%28Marvel_Comics%29

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.