So there's been some discussion regarding how Emma is being used/misused in Uncanny. There may be some that disagree but I think Emma is/can be a great character and would benefit from being out of Scott's shadow at least for a while. That said I do like her with Scott I just want her more as the cunning and manipulative strategist that she is rather than so passive. With that in mind say Emma went out and formed her own team..... What would you have as her objective? And who would you have her recruit?

As for me I like the idea that was posed in another thread of her re-establishing X-corporation. Aside from that it would even be cool if she was somehow manipulating things behind the scenes as part of, or running, Serval in All new Xfactor.

But just for the sake of starting off this thread.... I would have her re-establish X-corporation and run a search and rescue, investigative type team dealing with mutant rights violations and helping/recruiting newly emerging mutants. (I guess Scott's team can continue to go after organization's that are against mutants)

For the roster: Emma Frost, Husk, Chamber, Weapon Omega, Nate Grey, Karma and Kitty Pryde

The interactions of the team may be interesting especially with Kitty who may not trust Emma completely but could end up being friends at least begrudgingly.

Any Thoughts?

The Emma Frost X-Corporation idea is something I agree with as well cause it fits her. Also i think it's something that should be considered for her after this phase of Renegade X-Men is over, since it's one of those things that was big in the mutant storylines before M-Day.

That said, I think Emma would also do well in a sort Hero among Villains story. Maybe a book about her infiltrating the Hellfire Club for the X-Men and having to recruit a team of good guys too help her work from within the club while exploring Emma and the good/bad line that she is always walking. Maybe a ressurrected Dark X-Men title, since the premise is similar.

@koays: I like that idea as well. Who would you have on her squad?

I'm curious about the inclusion of Nate Grey in this. He seems kinda out of place.

@thegreyoutcastx: yeah. I was trying to include another dude who is currently unused. Honestly his inclusion is just a bit of nostalgia from the Age of Apocalypse story, where he worked with Emma. As far as the rest (which I meant to explain but my computer went crazy for a minute):

Husk in trying to get stable and because of having no place at the JGS joins her former teacher/mentor.

Chamber has a connection to Husk and of course his former teacher/mentor, plus a offensive powerhouse/blaster type and he genuinely seems to care about helping potential students.

Omega was recruited by Emma before to join Dark Xmen. Could see him still looking to atone for the past and being the powerhouse Emma might need.

I seem to recall Karma was training with Emma at one point to help further develop her psi-skills.

Kitty joins to keep an eye on things and because she believes in the cause and wants to be on more of a protection type of team versus a outlaw strike-force type team.

Amelia Voght might be cool on this type team as well.

@hawk2916: Hard to say. It would be mutants that would be believable to the club members...

I'd try:
Sunspot (As someone whose seen the inner workings)
Warpath
Frenzy
Kitty Pryde (On the team disguised so that she can keep tabs on Emma)
Hellion
Sage OR the Cuckoos (Sage, because everyone would focus on her as a traitor and over look Kitty, and Cuckoos because it would be interesting to see them interact with Emma's history)

When did this happen?

In fairness to Emma being in Scott's shadow....everyone in Uncanny at the moment is in Magik's shadow.

As for Emma and her own team....the Stepfords I think would be a must (especially with Emma's powers broken at the moment). I couldn't see Kitty going anywhere at least until the O5 are back where they belong.

@thegreyoutcastx: i meant generation x

Ah, ok.

I think I would switch Nate with either M, Frenzy, or even Warpath. This team is in need of a brick. The Cuckoos need to be around simply because without them, Emma is limited in telepathy. Other than maybe switching Weapon Omega of a teleporter or just simply adding one, this team isn't too bad.

Oh, how I would love to see Emma lead her own team. Stepford Cuckoos for sure, Hellion as well and other Gen X'ers. It would have been great to have her on a mission to seek out mutants who may have regained their mutant powers, especially due to the bus incident.

I like the idea of Emma branching out and creating a brand new X-Corps. Some of the classic X-Men need to come out of limbo to be on her team (Magma, Warpath maybe, Empath (I think he is still alive), the Cuckoos, Dazzler after she rips Raven a new one, and maybe Wolfsbane or Siryn).

Hellion and the Cuckoos MUST be on an Emma team. It's absolutely mandatory for Emma to have her Hive Mind and the Man Candy. (It can't have been just me who's noticed how smokin' Julian is being drawn lately... and again, he was the heartthrob of the Young X-Men of course and was drawn as such... but some artists dropped that ball big time)

Ooh Empath on a team with Emma would be interesting. Doesn't she loathe him now? for basically being an epic-level sleaze-bag? Add in Hellion to the mix, stirring up both old memories for Empath (just the name Hellion) and also Julian also spending time as Emma's protege... tension...

X-corporation is an incredible idea and looks totally promising, especially with Emma running it. She still has her money, and with a mutant population growing again it will be a logically natural step for her to make. Scott and Illyana will recruit some other pre-AvX mutants, I'm not worried about them lol I still think Emma should have never joined Cyclops, and she doesn't look good as a background character.

An absolute "no" to Hellfire Club, because... one question, "why?"

But I'd like to see HFC reestablished, and make it thrilling, "illuminati"-style and manipulative than ever before, with the "mystical" mutants, and the only "hero" that fits is Illyana.

Because the way she's been characterized since Morrison is as the token evil teammate that nobody trust because of her questionable history, despite numerous times proving herself. It's the perfect way to close the book on the doubt about her and actually make the club look important again.

Not true. I don't really remember when, but there was that issue where Wolverine told her she has nothing to prove, and almost everybody silently agrees with him. Anyway, by her actions, she proved herself more than enough she isn't "evil", why would you think this is a logically natural move to make?

But the question is, what kind of HFC do you imply?

Yea, but lets face it, they taught a class at the JGS just to unteach what she taught kids. The book i think your talking about (one of those early San Fran releases) has her basically talking about how she feels like an outsider even in the group. Sure she has nothing to prove , but at her best who were her friends in the X-Men?

Besides i'm not saying she has to "be" evil, just basically do the same thing she did with the Dark X-Men, play a believable role in order to take the enemy down from inside. And explore the drama of having such a believable double agent in a situation that may tempt her.

The Hellfire Club i'm thinking of is real life Illuminati with powers. Basically political manipulations, assassinations, dark mystical alliances, disrupting the super communities cohesiveness, and generally retaking the world from the shadows. I've always felt that the Hellfire Club should mean more then just "Whose the Black Queen this month?" and actually have a world impact if it were defeated.

@koays: Love that interpretation of a Hellfire Club. In fact with that description I would be in favor of the Hellfire Club having their own ongoing book. By the way here's my All new Hellfire Club: Sebastian Shaw, Sapphire Styx, Lady Mastermind, Sat-Yr-9, Elias Bogan, Selene, Bella Donna, Frederick Slade, Candra, Moonstone, Black Tom Cassidy, Madame Hydra. 3 divisions: white, black and red.

I'd definitely put Stacy X on Emma's team if this were the case. Although Sage would fit, i dont know if she'd ever work with Emma

I was thinking about switching Sage for Nocturne myself but Stacy X works as well with the theme.

Also i like the implications of your Hellfire Club, in that it's X-Men related but also has the distinct "evil world order" feel. Definitely a group that wouldn't go down in one or two arcs, and would have an excuse to include a few guest appearances from X-characters if it were a book.

wasn't Candra destroyed by Cyclops?

She was thought to be but then was reassembling herself before I think Scarlet Spider got her. Bella Donna has said that Candra would come back though. Nekra could be good in a role with HFC as well

@koays:

Yea, but lets face it, they taught a class at the JGS just to unteach what she taught kids.

Lol the problem with JGC, they're so obsessed with the "outlaws" that it's hard to take their teachings for serious, sorry. It's just all the matters of propaganda.

The book i think your talking about (one of those early San Fran releases) has her basically talking about how she feels like an outsider even in the group. Sure she has nothing to prove , but at her best who were her friends in the X-Men?

Does it matter who her friends where? She's stated that more than once she's there for children, for teaching. That was her goal beyond making friends. That's what the character has become for most of the time.

Besides i'm not saying she has to "be" evil

My mistake, I thought that was your point actually.

do the same thing she did with the Dark X-Men, play a believable role in order to take the enemy down from inside. And explore the drama of having such a believable double agent in a situation that may tempt her.

If we're talking about classic HFC lineup, no one should let Emma enter the club to begin with, she is "too X-men" even when she's a runaway.

The Hellfire Club i'm thinking of is real life Illuminati with powers. Basically political manipulations, assassinations, dark mystical alliances, disrupting the super communities cohesiveness, and generally retaking the world from the shadows. I've always felt that the Hellfire Club should mean more then just "Whose the Black Queen this month?" and actually have a world impact if it were defeated.

Now here we're talking the same language finally, who would your players be?

@adamtrmm: Too your point about Emma being "too X-Men" I think that if the Hell Fire Club reformed with the goal of being the guiders of the world from the shadows, then they'd accept Emma since she's a leader in the Mutant community. Plus I think the other members of the old school club would have enough problems with eachother that they'd have to agree to overlook everyone's past issues and egos. I mean I can't see Selene and Shaw sitting down at a table together just because their so interested in their selves.

As for a lineup I think whatever I had mentally was eclipsed by @hawk2916 and his Hell Fire Club from all walks of life. Maybe I'd put some on the outer side, but a well oiled global group that won't fall apart because of ego is what I'm looking for.

@koays:

Too your point about Emma being "too X-Men" I think that if the Hell Fire Club reformed with the goal of being the guiders of the world from the shadows, then they'd accept Emma since she's a leader in the Mutant community.

These days? Not really... But I could've agreed if Bendis' UXM have never happened.

Plus I think the other members of the old school club would have enough problems with eachother that they'd have to agree to overlook everyone's past issues and egos. I mean I can't see Selene and Shaw sitting down at a table together just because their so interested in their selves.

So you say the classic lineup won't work again?

As for a lineup I think whatever I had mentally was eclipsed by @hawk2916 and his Hell Fire Club from all walks of life. Maybe I'd put some on the outer side, but a well oiled global group that won't fall apart because of ego is what I'm looking for.

Just can't see Emma with HFC again. And I'd like to see this team absolutely amoral and boundless.

I'd say Madelyne, Selene and Magik for the queens and Azazel (turned into a manipulative badass, possessing dark arts and mystical inter-dimensional connections) as Red King (nothing racist lol), Mikhail Rasputin as Black King and.... maybe Sinister as White King?

It's especially funny because that's been part of her character even since the original New Mutants days. I bet most readers don't recall that she assembled the Hellfire Club, which included Magneto at the time, to storm the Purifiers's Base to rescue Magma back in New Mutants Annual #4. She had other motivations to create the Hellions, but her character came more to the fore as a teacher with conflicting philosophies for the bulk of her existence. This isn't really a new development, whereas characters like Logan had no interest in teaching or skills to do so for far longer. She's more consistent than many members of the JGS' teaching staff at this point.

@hawk2916: I'd actually seriously enjoy seeing Quentin Quire on that team instead of Nate Grey, especially since Nate fits in decently with the New Mutants.

Again for my pitch, Emma isn't evil....just playing the role of a high ranking mole within the club that is trying to bring it down from the inside. I just think she'd be perfect for that because she'd have to go about pretending to be a person she hasn't been for more then 14 years in comics. I mean she's a conflicted person because the part of her character that wants to see the young mutants of the future excel is constantly battling with the darker tendencies that she had as a member of the club....so lets see Emma rectify the conflict by bringing down the embodiment of that.

As for the Club itself, i think that the classic line up could work (with the exception of Pierce), but there would need to be enough new people added to the group that they wouldn't seem strange to have come back together. Madelyne and Azazel for instance as Red King and Queen would shift Shaw's attention from Selene and Emma. Plus having other underworld powers and major manipulators like Courtney Ross and Bella Donna adds to the reach of the club.

I think Magik could be a great addition to a team working against the club from the inside, seeing as she'd be valuable to the club but when push came to shove she'd be the only one to take Selene. And Mister Sinister would be interesting as well.....but Magik seems too self serving for the Club and I can't see them using power as a bargaining chip for her, and Sinister, Selene and Maddie just seems so completely stacked that they'd have to tear themselves apart for anyone to beat them.

@squares: Cant get with you on that one. Im not attached to Nate Grey as a character at all. In fact I kinda want him gone for good. But Quire I really hate and dont want him anywhere near any teams. Maybe its the writers but no to Quire......hell no!!!!

@adamtrmm: I'd say Madelyne, Selene and Magik for the queens and Azazel (turned into a manipulative badass, possessing dark arts and mystical inter-dimensional connections) as Red King (nothing racist lol), Mikhail Rasputin as Black King and.... maybe Sinister as White King?

I could see Azazel in a role. In fact I'd be willing to replace Shaw in my line up with him. As long as he's not a freaking pirate running around with Bamfs. Madelyne should be off on her own and Magik should stay where she is imo. I like Black Tom however on further thought I think he works well in a Brotherhood setting with Mystique. I'd also consider replacing him with someone like Maruis St. Croix (Emplate). Rasputin is a nice choice but I had him pegged for Mystique's Brotherhood as well.

Here's my HFC and divisions:

White Division- (King) Elias Bogan (Queen) Sapphire Styx, (Rook) Sat-yr-, (Bishop) Lady Mastermind

Black Division- (King) Marius St. Croix, (Queen) Selene, (Rook) Frederick Slade, (Bishop) Moonstone

Red Division- (King) Azazel or Sebastian Shaw- cant decide right now. (Queen) Candra, (Rook) Madame Hydra, (Bishop) Bella Donna

@hawk2916: I think I know what you mean, he's kind of an insufferable idiot right now, which is why I think he should be on the team. Being around Emma and some of the other characters on the team could teach him to control himself a little better.

Also I'm not sure if it was you who mentioned it or someone else, but I really like the idea of Empath being on the team too.

@koays:

Again for my pitch, Emma isn't evil....just playing the role of a high ranking mole within the club that is trying to bring it down from the inside. I just think she'd be perfect for that because she'd have to go about pretending to be a person she hasn't been for more then 14 years in comics. I mean she's a conflicted person because the part of her character that wants to see the young mutants of the future excel is constantly battling with the darker tendencies that she had as a member of the club....so lets see Emma rectify the conflict by bringing down the embodiment of that.

Exactly, that's why no one should trust her, and I would mock those incompetent villains that allowed her to join their ranks. You see?

As for the Club itself, i think that the classic line up could work (with the exception of Pierce), but there would need to be enough new people added to the group that they wouldn't seem strange to have come back together. Madelyne and Azazel for instance as Red King and Queen would shift Shaw's attention from Selene and Emma. Plus having other underworld powers and major manipulators like Courtney Ross and Bella Donna adds to the reach of the club.

So you're saying Shaw, Selene and Emma could work together again? 0_o Really?

I think Magik could be a great addition to a team working against the club from the inside, seeing as she'd be valuable to the club but when push came to shove she'd be the only one to take Selene. And Mister Sinister would be interesting as well.....but Magik seems too self serving for the Club and I can't see them using power as a bargaining chip for her

Everyone is self-serving in this Club, that's why they are there, broadly speaking, to satisfy their needs. The point is, it's just they find the union itself beneficial. And Illyana is very unpredictable, we won't even know why she's there.

and Sinister, Selene and Maddie just seems so completely stacked that they'd have to tear themselves apart for anyone to beat them.

You mean they're too overpowered?

@hawk2916:

I could see Azazel in a role. In fact I'd be willing to replace Shaw in my line up with him. As long as he's not a freaking pirate running around with Bamfs.

Of course not, that's why mentioned his metamorphose, congenial to the First Class deadly assassin appearance, yet this time his won't be a simple soldier, he will be a wild card.

Madelyne should be off on her own and Magik should stay where she is imo. I like Black Tom however on further thought I think he works well in a Brotherhood setting with Mystique.

Well Shaw is mindwiped, not that it means much, but he lost everything I think, and he isn't just on the same calibre as the other guys, I thought about a lineup, where each of the most significant members can be a one man army, so we'll be spared of the annoying d!ck measurings. Only machinations of all kinds and colors, as it was always supposed to be.

I'd also consider replacing him with someone like Maruis St. Croix (Emplate).

I thought about him, but this guy is really SELF-centered, maybe I don't know much, yet from what I've seen he doesn't seem to be interested in anything other than his little muties to eat.

White Division- (King) Elias Bogan (Queen) Sapphire Styx, (Rook) Sat-yr-, (Bishop) Lady Mastermind

Black Division- (King) Marius St. Croix, (Queen) Selene, (Rook) Frederick Slade, (Bishop) Moonstone

Red Division- (King) Azazel or Sebastian Shaw- cant decide right now. (Queen) Candra, (Rook) Madame Hydra, (Bishop) Bella Donna

I like the inclusion of non-mutants, I also thought about including Candra, but then I stopped at only the mutants who posses magical skills for most part, that's why I wasn't sure about Sinister. I'm heavily interested in how would Selene, Magik and Madelyne trio look on the same page, to say it could be explosive is like remaining silent lol Then Makhail, who is also Rasputin, which provides him inheritance to be able to use magic. Even without it, the way I understand his powers work from channeling inter-dimensional energies to warp reality, I think this is already good enough and can be "mystically" interpreted. This kind of alliance could be incredibly thrilling, combining (immortal) mutants, dark arts with "behind the scenes shenanigans" (assassinations, political interferences, facilities of experimenting on super-creations, collecting the most powerful artifacts and so on) attitude, that what I had in my mind. And then Sinister with his hyper-technological experience, from cloning to I don't know what (a Cyclops clone publicly murders somebody, go figure he wasn't real), someone like him will make this coalition even more diversified.

@adamtrmm: That's sort of the point, no one will trust her which is why she'll have to spend every moment helping them disrupt the supers so that they don't out right kill her. She's the one thing that no one else in the club is and that's respected by both good and bad guys so they'll respect what she can contribute. Plus while everyone's focused on Emma the others who've infiltrated the club will be doing the real damage.

I think the club isn't the club without at least Shaw....and even then Emma and Selene are to me the real Queens...With anyone else just trading off of their legacies.

And yea Sinister, Maddie and Selene are broken. Maybe two out of 3 but not all

I still think I'd leave Sinister to run his own group of Marauders and keep him off the Hellfire Club. Maddie would have her Sisterhood though now that its been mentioned Im really warming to the idea of her in the Hellfire Club. I think I would have to stick with Shaw and I really think Marius St. Croix fits as well. Azazel is a good choice too.

Again I think Im replacing Black Tom with Marius. Nostalgia makes me want Lady Mastermind there since her father was previously but I could replace her with Candra in that role and allow Maddie to take up the Red Queen post. I actually forgot that Viper/Madame Hydra was Sat-Yr-9's bodyguard and White Princess when she was White Queen...so i may have to shuffle Sapphire Styx to the White Rook position and create a White Princess spot for Viper/Madame Hydra. Azazel can be in the red division.

Such a group could be a true nemesis to all of Marvel's superhero teams for sure.

@koays:

That's sort of the point, no one will trust her which is why she'll have to spend every moment helping them disrupt the supers so that they don't out right kill her. She's the one thing that no one else in the club is and that's respected by both good and bad guys so they'll respect what she can contribute. Plus while everyone's focused on Emma the others who've infiltrated the club will be doing the real damage.

She isn't even useful for them these days.

I think the club isn't the club without at least Shaw....and even then Emma and Selene are to me the real Queens...With anyone else just trading off of their legacies.

That's why we get stagnancy and same stories told from different angles, I don't accept this thinking.

And yea Sinister, Maddie and Selene are broken. Maybe two out of 3 but not all

I don't get it, so they're broken or overpowered? :)

@hawk2916:

I still think I'd leave Sinister to run his own group of Marauders and keep him off the Hellfire Club.

Thanks to Gillen, he already evolved to be more self-centered character, I don't think he needs underdogs anymore.

Maddie would have her Sisterhood

I really don't get that all-female lineups, why men are not allowed in it? lol

Such a group could be a true nemesis to all of Marvel's superhero teams for sure.

Well, here we disagree. The whole idea "pulling the strings from the shadows" is what I'd like to see, with everything but not direct confrontations.

@adamtrmm:

Thanks to Gillen, he already evolved to be more self-centered characters, I don't think he needs underdogs anymore.

Thats just the thing. Sinister has evolved. I think him commanding his own group of Marauders while still being self-centered and doing his thing is perfect. But.. opinions you know.

I really don't get that all-female lineups, why men are not allowed in it? lol

It doesnt matter really, as long as villains are represented. I'm tired of the heroes vs. heroes thing. Brotherhood, Sisterhood, HFC, Gene Nation or whatever. She can go be in HFC for all I care.

Well, here we disagree. The whole idea "pulling the strings from the shadows" is what I'd like to see, with everything but not direct confrontations.

They could be in the shadows and still be a nemesis to any team. Having situations you cant win in and mysteries you cant solve would be certainly mess with the psyche and confidence of any team. I think a mix is the best because thats what clandestine organizations do. Here the Xmen are fighting a new incarnation of Gene Nation or battling a company manufacturing Sentinels not realizing that they are being pushed into some sinister plot or basically dealing with the front man instead of the real threat. The direct confrontations come from fighting Hydra and their designs, thinking that Viper is who you have to takedown but not knowing that Hydra is only the tip of the iceberg and Vipers is only a cog in a much bigger machine. Can you imagine the detrimental effects of say the Uncanny Xmen thinking Magik is off her rocker and has started another demonic invasion when its just set up to seem that way and in reality its the HFC?

Any other case I'd agree about creating stagnancy, but the HellFire Club has lost its meaning for the exact opposite reason. They kept bringing in New Members and different versions of the Club and eventually it stopped being a real threat. I'd have the thought process be that Shaw, Selene and Emma represent the Club at its strongest.

Even as an outlaw, Emma is respected in the super community, that makes her useful as an insider for the Club. Plus everything i suggested was for a Post- current Uncanny X-Men situation.

And to put it simply, they barely beat Maddie, they NEVER beat Sinister, and Selene resurected every dead X-Men character ever....The three in a club together is so unfair to the good guys it hurts to think about. And even if they somehow beat that unholy trio....it would come of as a cheap win.

Basically, turning HFC into "villain Illuminati"? Yeah, this could totally work. Maybe I misinterpreted what you had your mind, but I'd say they will need more representatives from the other influential organizations. This is also an interesting take on Club.

The problem is, since DPS, Hellfire Club with the classic lineup was so messed up, I'm not really taking them for serious either, and the mutual hatred between them makes it all even more forced and annoying. Both Shaw and Emma have absolutely nothing to bring to the table these days, that's what you're overlooking I guess. By whom Emma is respected? And she already betrayed the Cabal, and it was on 616-TV. Only idiots will allow her to join in.

I absolutely hate PIS wins like in Blood of Apocalypse (or MANY others), but like I said, I don't think direct confrontations will happen often, especially when Kings and Queens will only look how to disappear quickly. Let's not forget, most powerful telepaths and most of OLM in general are X-men, for them, being overpowered was never a problem to job hard ;)

Lol We won't see it the same because my selling point is that I think the history and issues between these characters bring more to the table then a group that is all new faces, and your basically saying the opposite. But the picture in my head is of Emma having to go above and beyond to be the White Queen completely because she knows no one trust her, while Shaw has to deal with the half a dozen new Club members he has to defend his weakened position against, with Selene knowing Emma isn't trustworthy, and wanting to see how far she'll go to decieve them but also seeing Emma be corrupted by the group. All the while most of the real action is taking place with the group of X-Men infiltrating the club.

Emma is respected by the majority of X-Men, FF and even some Avengers going off of her appearances outside of Uncanny. She's in a unique position and i'd like to see her use it more to expand on her character rather then just shrug it off and move on unnaturally.

I agree with the no direct confrontations thing, but with that group they could walk onto the JGS grounds and make breakfast and no one could stop them. The only way they would lose is by minion failure or infighting, which would be a let down considering who they'd have and how power is between the three of them. And when powerful people join the X-Men they automatically receive a 30% good guy disadvantage.....its the only reason the X-Men could ever lose a fight when they had freakin Magneto with them.

@koays:

Lol We won't see it the same because my selling point is that I think the history and issues between these characters bring more to the table then a group that is all new faces, and your basically saying the opposite.

That must be it =}

But the picture in my head is of Emma having to go above and beyond to be the White Queen completely because she knows no one trust her, while Shaw has to deal with the half a dozen new Club members he has to defend his weakened position against, with Selene knowing Emma isn't trustworthy, and wanting to see how far she'll go to decieve them but also seeing Emma be corrupted by the group.

Why would they want Emma with them anyway? Just seems like you'll prefer the classic team over what more logically relevant. And the last time Selene was involved, she sent her underdogs to kill both of them, see what I mean?

All the while most of the real action is taking place with the group of X-Men infiltrating the club.

That, and the opposite.

Emma is respected by the majority of X-Men, FF and even some Avengers going off of her appearances outside of Uncanny. She's in a unique position and i'd like to see her use it more to expand on her character rather then just shrug it off and move on unnaturally.

And becoming a member of HFC (goals don't matter) AGAIN is a character expansion? Taking over X-corp. would definitely be a character development, a new position we've never seen her taking and leading this time without men over her head. Gold. ANOTHER infiltration into the SAME lineup? Not really.

I agree with the no direct confrontations thing, but with that group they could walk onto the JGS grounds and make breakfast and no one could stop them. The only way they would lose is by minion failure or infighting, which would be a let down considering who they'd have and how power is between the three of them.

So could Vulcan, or Apocalypse, or any other overpowered foe. I do agree the win is achieved mostly in tasteless ways, but HFC are not supposed to be some "evil villains" with lameass anti-X-men obsession. They will try to play their own game, trying to be invisible gaining authority and influence. It'd be X-men who'll decide to interfere. Who said they'll know where they have to strike?

And when powerful people join the X-Men they automatically receive a 30% good guy disadvantage.....its the only reason the X-Men could ever lose a fight when they had freakin Magneto with them.

Lol don't even remind me. That's why they have no idea what to do with Iceman and how idiotically Magneto has jobbed every damn fight.

@adamtrmm: It's not just about what they want from her. I mean the Hell Fire Club was always more about the strength of the club then what each member contributed. I mean Emma was White Queen before and her contribution was..money?..the Massachusetts Academy? I mean Selene was a stronger psychic and Shaw has herds of telepaths so she loses quality and quantity. Now she's a well known, well connected superhero in a world where there's heroes on every block. WAY more to offer then before.

It may seem illogical, but to me there's a big gap in this character. We've seen what led her to be Queen, we've seen her put the blame on Shaw for tempting her initially, and we've seen the after result which is the moments when she relishes being in control of things within the X-Men. But where's the inbetween? Where's the exploration of the Emma Frost who strips and tortured the X-Men? She's come along way sure, but we missed a step.

You could take out Selene, you could take out Shaw. But my thought is for Emma to explore then close the chapter for good by completely destroying the Hell Fire Club. And that doesn't work with just any of the watered down Clubs. It needs to be someone with a connection to her past. We could even redraft the idea as Magik infiltrating the club and Emma sort of coaching her on how the club works differently. But as much as I like the X-Corp idea, when Emma had the Phoenix Force she made a room full of X-Men bow to her....that shows some issues with power that need to be explored.

The problem I have with the Ungodly Trio of Maddie, Sinister and Selene, isn't so much in the buildup but in the ending. I just see it sort of like Necrosha, where no matter how great the build up is (two series and years of background planning) those final pages of the confrontation will ruin a big villain moment. And that trio is made of 3 big villains, that could definitely takeover the world if they had too. Basically i just don't trust a writer to get themselves out of that hole in a satisfying way.

@koays:

It's not just about what they want from her. I mean the Hell Fire Club was always more about the strength of the club then what each member contributed. I mean Emma was White Queen before and her contribution was..money?..the Massachusetts Academy? I mean Selene was a stronger psychic and Shaw has herds of telepaths so she loses quality and quantity. Now she's a well known, well connected superhero in a world where there's heroes on every block. WAY more to offer then before.

It may seem illogical, but to me there's a big gap in this character. We've seen what led her to be Queen, we've seen her put the blame on Shaw for tempting her initially, and we've seen the after result which is the moments when she relishes being in control of things within the X-Men. But where's the inbetween? Where's the exploration of the Emma Frost who strips and tortured the X-Men? She's come along way sure, but we missed a step.

You could take out Selene, you could take out Shaw. But my thought is for Emma to explore then close the chapter for good by completely destroying the Hell Fire Club. And that doesn't work with just any of the watered down Clubs. It needs to be someone with a connection to her past. We could even redraft the idea as Magik infiltrating the club and Emma sort of coaching her on how the club works differently. But as much as I like the X-Corp idea, when Emma had the Phoenix Force she made a room full of X-Men bow to her....that shows some issues with power that need to be explored.

The problem I have with the Ungodly Trio of Maddie, Sinister and Selene, isn't so much in the buildup but in the ending. I just see it sort of like Necrosha, where no matter how great the build up is (two series and years of background planning) those final pages of the confrontation will ruin a big villain moment. And that trio is made of 3 big villains, that could definitely takeover the world if they had too. Basically i just don't trust a writer to get themselves out of that hole in a satisfying way.

So you want Emma with the Club to see her doing some questionable moves? You know, we could actually have that if only Bendis decided to take Uncanny to the extreme, but he didn't. I wouldn't like to see her with HFC, to me it's just a closed chapter. And maybe we did miss a step there, but it is already missed, why to complicate things further?

And HFC in its classic form just doesn't exist, there are no Starks, or Osborns, or exotic dream-dancers, (or did I miss something with the Brats?) that structure is gone for good. I'd like to see a new build-up, and now with Selene and Maddie out there, it's only a question of time when they'll decide to do something, so why not to create a new incarnation of HFC? That's what is in my mind.

I do understand your last point, but that can be said about any ending of the story, and while they might seem to be overpowered, the heroes of Earth are really overpowered, realization of which might also become a starting point for their alliance.

So this thread turned into how Emma can be a spy? Another Dark X-Men type deal? I wouldn't want Emma anywhere near a new Hellfire Club.

I think it would seem a bit too suspicious if Emma were to rejoin the Hellfire Club, after leaving them and what she did to Shaw.

Emma Frost is better off without the XM. She should rejoin with the Hellfire Club. I like her better there. She's been treated wrongfully while she was with Cyclops. Beside, she don't look bad teaching her hellions students.