Since New X-Men Emma Frost has been an official member of the X-Men team. However a running subplot for her has always been clashing with her teammates, sometimes over her attitude, sometimes over her opinions, but almost always because of an underlying mistrust for her. Emma has shown to be confidant to a few X-Men (Rogue, Gambit, Colossus,) in their times of need but most of the other X-Men seem hesitant to let go of old issues, while Emma deals with a large amount of self-loathing which makes it unlikely for her to reach out to most of her team members.

Because we're almost always assembling teams on this board, it got me to wondering if it's reasonable to believe that Emma would be on a team when most characters tend to clash with her. Throughout her tenure, she's only ever been on one X-Men team without Cyclops (Havok's team for a short while) and doesn't seem to have any other close friendships within the X-Men aside from Magneto at present.

So do you think Emma Frost has been accepted by the X-Men? or is she unlikely to stick with the group with so few attachments holding her there?

Yes.

@koays:

i dont like her because she was never a student of charles xavier. Also she will always be a villain like in the x-men tas cartoon. Oh and at first emma was really old when she came out then they made her younger to be with scott. Wasnt she supposed to be charles age? Not to mentioned that she broke up jeann and scott's marriage.

@koays:

where are the scans from?

I think she has been, yes.

Had she not been accepted, she would not have been the Headmistress of the School in Generation X.

@avenger85: Technically that was Xaviers decision

@hopesummersforthefuture: X-men Manifest Destiny

which number?

@hopesummersforthefuture: Issue 2 was Emma's story with the Iceman plot in the beginning

Lets just acknowledge that Emma's diamond form is the most beautiful thing we've ever seen.

i had more scans of that but now i cant find them

Agreed. there is also bling who has it

Yea there's a few scenes, like where she goes past Storm and Beast, that I wanted to include, since even though she ended this issue feeling better about things, those two still ended up getting into verbal confrontations with her not long after this.

I don't see why not? If Wolverine can honestly be accepted as an X-Men, and eventually a headmaster (canon wise), I see no reason why Emma hasn't earned her keep there, regardless of her clashing of opinions with a few members.

@god_spawn: Playing Devils Advocate, but there's a difference when the one your clashing with is Kitty and if its clashing with a player like say Storm. Basically if Kitty doesn't trust her, its just Kitty; but Storm, Beast and/or Wolverine tend to speak for a majority (especially now) and haven't been shy about including her in comments about making the team look villainous. If Storm says lets kick Emma out because she doesn't trust her...it's believable that their may not be anyone who'd stop her.

Wolverine has not intentionally kidnapped and tortured some of them in the past though. I can see some of the newer members being more accepting of her, but if people like Kitty and Storm and most of the old New Mutants never trust her I can see why.

@koays: My point for mentioning Wolverine is that he is literally one of the most blood stained characters in Marvel. A lot of the X-Men aren't exactly fans of killing unless absolutely necessary, but for a long time, if someone needed to be put down Logan did it or tried. So despite a character's roots or some bad things they have done, in a comicbook world, it seems perfectly legitimate that if they tried to repent (ie like Wolverine), then a character can be forgiven. Emma has helped the X-Men for years now, despite her former position as the White Queen of the Hellfire Club, I think she has been accepted. Some may not like her and it was shown some of the X-Men didn't for awhile, but she has remained a constant and a powerful asset to the team.

Yeah, I do. Some of them might not like her, but I don't think anyone's going to challenge her on her right to be an X-man.

I actually do completely believe that Emma has been accepted by the X-Men. Most of them have murky pasts, her's is therefore no different, aside from her being a legit foe of the X-Men. Frankly if Storm and Cyclops and Wolverine trust her, then the rest of the X-Men do. And all three of these MOST senior X-Men do trust Emma. She and Storm had major beef, but Astonishing worked that out. Wolverine called her out on her own issues with being accepted - he basically told her they all trusted and accepted her. Emma has put her life on the line for them all now, they know she's one of them through and through (and frankly she should have been since the beginning, since Xavier tried to recruit her as a teen). And above all else, the x-men all seem to recognise her passion for teaching. Emma has their respect. She has their trust. She may not have many of them as true friends this is true. But that's the way she is.

Interpersonal conflict is one thing, outright distrust, non-acceptance and enmity are another thing entirely. Emma's attitude is a characteristic which actually makes the teams function better. It's motivational. Its fosters a measure of familial chaos. And it means that they are able to air the issues that a more passively inclined team might repress.

@lordofallhumans: I won't disagree with that. My point for using Wolverine is he originally did not scream X-Men material, let alone headmaster. In a comic setting, it doesn't seem to matter what type of stuff happened in the past, but as long as a character seems repentant, they try to better themselves and help long enough, or there is some big team up thread, bygones are bygones. Emma has proven her worth and helped long enough that despite her original....interactions with the X-Men, I think she is accepted. I still don't think some fully like her, but they haven't all been jiving to boot her off the team for her entire career as an X-man.

@god_spawn: But is it really a case of "in spite of what you are, your an X-Man", if they don't seem to trust her? Wolverine could kill a bus load of senior citizens and when he got off the bus everyone would ask "what did they do?", but if Emma did something similar i honestly dont know if she'd get the same response or if they'd all just say "we knew this was coming".

I can't speak for the X-men, but for me she is still a member of the hellfire club and the founder of the Hellions.

To see her with the X-men and with this stupi... diamond form doesn't make any sense for me.

She came to the X-men during one of my "breaks" and I never read these issues.

However I really liked all her relationship with Scott.

@god_spawn: @koays:

My answer is better XP

@koays: Yes, because she has grown to a point where they trust her.

Wouldn't it be less about trust and more about not trusting her enough to not use her powers in some unscrupulous way? In the situation described above if Emma used her power to kill a group of people the Xmen would expect her to do something villainous like that. That doesn't mean they completely trust her, it just means they know what to expect from her and wouldn't be surprised if she went down that road. Like I said there are some of them that only knew her as the Gen X. headmistress not as the woman that once kidnapped and tortured members of the Xmen and New Mutants or the woman that had a hand in creating Dark Phoenix. If some of the old school Xmen don't trust her 100% it is completely understandable. I'd never completely trust my kidnapper and torturer no matter how much they changed or how much good they have done. Nobody ever trust Magneto 100% and Xaviers good certainly outweighs his bad, and her good deeds, but nobody gives him the benefit of trust so I don't believe she will ever be 100% accepted by 100% of the Xmen.

@hopesummersforthefuture: Lol Which one that she's shiny or that she somehow got deaged about 15 years?

lmbo the second one. But i dont trust her.......this is the women that helped create dark phoenix . there maybe blood on jean grey's hands but there is too much blood one emma's hands ie she did it on purpose. Also justice for Butterrum!!!!!!!

@hopesummersforthefuture: lmao....I really hope Emma and Firestar get picked for the Xavier mission now

F*ck acceptance. Emma Frost is better than the X-Men, half of them are hypocrites, and the other half are useless mindless drones that don't have a backbone.

Emma Frost IS QUEEN !!!!

She is just as much a hypocrite as any other, and all this Xmen are hypocrites crap is new, historically speaking they have not consistently been described the way you are describing them.

There are a ton of X-Men who have never been students, and Emma isn't always a bad guy in cartoons she was on the X-Men in the most recent X-Men cartoon Wolverine and the X-Men.

...and she was a mole and a villain that was directly responsible for Jeans disappearance and the Professors coma. Everything that happened to them was a result of her not being a good guy until the very end.

Oh I only watched like half of it. She was an X-Men in all of the good games though.

Yeah after it was already established in comics that she was a member though, not before. In all the cartoons she has been in, Pryde of the Xmen, TAS, Wolverine and the Xmen, and even the anime she either was exclusively bad or started off that way.

I don't see your point... of course it was established in the comics first... they use the comics for inspiration when they make other stuff based off of it....

you said she was an Xman in the games "though", we were talking about most versions of her being a villain, so of course she would be an Xman in the games after she was established to be an Xman in the comics. What was your point?

And I'm saying in most games she was an x-men. I don't even know if there were games where she wasn't.

There are over 20 Xmen video games she has been in like 4, two of them she was not one of the Xmen but was a villain.

That's why I originally said the good ones. As in the recent ones that actually did well.

there are two ways of looking at it...do the X-men themselves accept her as one of theirs....and from our reader perspective, should they.

Personally I do think they consider her an X-man. Gambit was a criminal, Logan a killer, and they have even at times considered Magneto an ally. At this point she has put her life on the line numerous times for the team and been a key part of their roster over multiple years. She was trusted enough to be made headmistress for a time. She is a very clear example of a reformed villain, though like most reformed villain characters she still has a bit of a dark side and has a bit more of an edge to her character.

In-universe, multiple people have said they accept her as an X-man, even if she herself didn't believe she qualified....and from our reader perspective I honestly think we should as well. She has had several internal monologues or character moments where she looks back on her villainous past and regrets the person she was. Don't have scans unfortunately, but id like to point to the conversation she had with Scott in UXM number 2....that she looks back on the person she was before she got involved with Scott and the X-men, and she hates her. She hates her so much she doesn't want to think about her. Emma can be a royal bitch, and often plays devils advocate for options that will likely not be popular with the rest of the team but should still be discussed...but she is still an X-man

The issue in-universe really is that most characters honestly just don't like her as a person. She always makes an effort to appear superior, has a mocking sense of humor, and is often the voice of opinions and plans that the other x-men would rather not think about. She only really ever lets Scott see her softer side, which she does have, and if not him she hides her emotional moments by remaining in diamond form for them. She cares about people, but doesn't want them to know she cares. Most of the dislike/hate/distrust towards her at this point is honestly just understandable personal issues considering the person she is.

Also, please correct me if im wrong on the timeline here, but at this point hasn't she really been an X-man longer than she was a villain?

Is she considered a X-man? Most likely yes at this point but that is a formality at best. I mean who really likes her? Besides Scott there are not many people who do that. Her arrogance makes her no friends

Laura/X-23 says it the best

I've always seen Emma as sort of a lone wolf, who herself does not exactly wish to make tons of friends or be "part of the gang". I also get the feeling many X-ladies are jealous of her at times. I get the vibe that she's pretty misunderstood. I personally like her.

I'd say she's accepted but not considered a core X-man despite the fact that she's been around for a long time and very present.

What makes you think anybody is jealous of her? I have always been curious why the new go to for people in fiction and real life is to think that the only reason anybody doesn't like another woman is jealousy or "you're a hater". I'm sure the ton of insecurities some of these people that "everybody is jealous of" shinning through has nothing to do with them being disliked, right? Lets' forget all the evil she has done and all the snark and bitchiness and blame it on jealousy, it's unlikely any of them are jealous of her at all, many of them never liked from the start with good reason. That does not mean they don't value her as a teammate, it's just that personally they would rather not be bothered. Happens all the time in real life. The quarterback may be a D-bag off the field and even on it, but he is still part of the team and you have to work together to win, you don't have to like him personally at all to get the job done, although it helps, it's not necessary.

That's the thing she is an Xman but that does not mean she is accepted by every other member on a personal level, and it makes sense all this kumbaya nonsense is getting tired. I know you tried to kill me (only a few years ago our time) but hey you had a hard life as a rich telepath with an ugly original nose, I forgive you let's be besties. Not buying it.

I think the core of it....she is an x-man. pretty much all the main members trust her in the field to have their backs and would have hers, they would at least listen to and consider her opinions/thoughts, and in general trust that she no longer holds aims of mutant supremacy or other assorted villainous goals, but has to an extent adopted xaviers dream.

that does not mean she is a person they would choose to be friends with. I don't recall everything but im pretty sure that beyond Scott the only x-men she was friendly with for any period were Hank, Logan, and Kurt....select students as well

I think with Emma, it's two things. One has she earned her place as an X-Man? Two: Who likes Emma?

With what I read: One, Yes, she has proven this multiple times and with number 2, initially, not many people but the team eventually all came around... Now, The JGS seem to hate her which I think it's pretty insulting considering the developments made in Astonishing...

Yes she has proven herself but IMO it was more to do with the core Xmen team not really knowing how to function without a powerful skilled telepath, she was there more out of necessity rather than trust, that and she was Scotts new girlfriend. Outside of snark and one liners having her around while Jean and Xavier were active was redundant.

@lordofallhumans: My reply was not: Do the X-Men need Emma, it was who likes her, despite the fact she has proven herself...

I don't think the X-Men needed Emma, if I remember correctly, she went in a coma, was under the care of the X-Men, started Gen X with Banshee and when that disbanded, she joined the X-Men, full time...

In regards to the Scott and Emma relationship, I think she was already a member of the X-Men before the relationship between her and Scott happened. Even when she entered an actual (non-telepathic) relationship with Scott, people still didn't like her...

The thread is about her being accepted by the Xmen so liking or disliking her is a factor as well as whether or not they need her. The need for her is one of the reasons she was accepted.

After Gen X disbanded she moved to Genosha to teach, Jean saved her and she joined the school as a teacher not an official Xman.

They had no reason to like her. She was not universally liked even when she was with Gen. X. by her own students. As soon as there was no more Gen X, she left to live with their greatest enemy to train younger mutants on how to invade the minds of their favorite celebrities and plant seductive subliminal messages or something of that nature. Had Genosha not been attacked and most of the mutant population decimated by an unknown enemy she would not have even been at the Xavier Institute. It had been established in Gen X that she was trying to distance her school from being connected to the Xmen after Onslaught. She was not loyal to anybody on their side until she actually started messing around with Scott telepathically. So there would be no reason to like or trust her due to her flip floppy ways before being saved by the Xmen, again.

I've been amazed for a while now on how former villains seem to become X-men. Rogue was accepted after she tried to murder Carol, Emma was accepted and she once stole Storm's body to switch minds for a while. Magneto of course with his body count. Frankly I don't think that they have standards for membership and acceptance beyond 'you're powerful, you're a mutant, we can use you.' I think the main reason they tossed Toad is that he wasn't powerful enough.

I also think that the writers are so in love with redemption plots that the victims mean nothing to them.

Rogue was a teenage girl manipulated most of her life by her "mother" into becoming a villain. Emma and Magneto chose their paths. For all his villainy, Magneto actually cared about other mutants, and hardly any of the Xmen actually buy him being a changed man. Emma was a villain for nothing more than power and status and she did more than body switch with Storm to be considered an enemy of the Xmen. She didn't care about anybody, then we are made to believe she suddenly cared about the Hellions after they died even though she was consistently shown abusing them using fear and psi powers to keep them in line, they might as well let the rest of the Hellfire club join, if villains that were evil for evils sake are being admitted.

this. She earned her place among them, she's saved them more than once, and she's been a hero for longer than she's been a villain.

They do not trust her because they don't like how she thinks. She's the one who aims directly at her goals without carying about the means, and they do not like this, or are too afraid of this.

And they're hypocrites. Logan killed his own children! Beast is a genocidal! None of them have always been on the good side of the fench.

Then she's not a common woman, she's not as friendly as the others, but neither was Wolverine. She's her own woman and while others were respected or understood because of their flaws, no one gave an hell about Emma.