@sagiravi:

Bendis is done with the X-Books and i don't think the next writer would necessarily focus on the O5 all that much especially if Remender is taking over (though he might character assassinate the hell out of every X-man that he writes).

He might? He f@king will! Just a thought of Remender taking over the X-flagships makes me tremble like a scared little girl. But knowing Marvel and Brevoort's current statement about "Fans buy most when they're angry" makes this fear even more tangible.With Bendis gone, we don't even know what will happen to the X-men, but I was talking about the possibility of resurrecting adult Jean rather than o5 kiddies version.

I will never understand how it can hate or love so much a character.

For example Jean could do an intense work of diplomatic mediation, in order to stitch up the schism between the X-Men and between humans and mutants. In this way she could become the new leader of the mutant race, but on the contrary of her husband, she could be a leader of pace; not of war.

Obviously this scenario doesn't preclude a reunion between Jean and Scott. On the contrary it lays the basis to built a new chapter or their relationship, which isn't a simply love story between two X-Men, but a love story between two X-Men who is able to carry on their shoulder the destiny of an entire race in its most difficult period.

@ec2277:

I will never understand how it can hate or love so much a character.

Because she will steal the show, and some don't want to read about that, others will defend this decision no matter the price.

For example Jean could do an intense work of diplomatic mediation, in order to stitch up the schism between the X-Men and between humans and mutants. In this way she could become the new leader of the mutant race, but on the contrary of her husband, she could be a leader of pace; not of war.

Schism is only such a big deal because Bendis decided it to be. Remember, post- AvX Uncanny was just Cyclops, Mags and Illyana. It is influential trio of course, but not so much X-men to that point. All matter of perspective here, they should've completely abstract character's minds from interacting and concentrate on building the X-men and mutant-verse at whole for the new world where mutants are born and how both factions fit this world individually. Bendis chose inter-trolling, silly, cheap drama and time-travel overload with not so much inventive slogan "now mutants will be hated more than they ever were" I mean common... You don't need Jean Grey to do something more creative right here, and you don't have to unite something that can work individually since they methods are now different. People who complain about Schism should also understand that it only sucks because of the execution, not the idea of different sides that only enriches the mutant world and shows more multifarious persepctive.

I'm not accusing you of something, I'm just kinda angry they wasted Renegade-clops potential on something so silly and I want more people to see that lol

Obviously this scenario doesn't preclude a reunion between Jean and Scott. On the contrary it lays the basis to built a new chapter or their relationship, which isn't a simply love story between two X-Men, but a love story between two X-Men who is able to carry on their shoulder the destiny of an entire race in its most difficult period.

I completely disagree with this perspective. Do we have just couple of leaders of human race? Why would mutant race be defined by two people and their generalizations? Each person is an individual and has his/her own beliefs and convictions, and so should mutantkind be represented. To me, X-mythos and moreover mutant metaphor took upon itself the burden to be something more than just a simple message of peace. They are not people feared for no reason, they SHOULD be feared. And that's what makes X-mythos so much more than just a superhero simplistic comics, they raise the most thought-provoking themes when written correctly. They're best not when they bonk their alternate reality clones of their mothers, but when such origins as Magnetos are being written, or when Decimations turn convicted boy-scouts into world-wide disaster scapegoats. When a girl balances and being torn apart at the same by both self-hatred and pride of who she is as a mutant (individual), and this is as real of a feeling as it gets.

As you can see, we're both fans of the same franchise, yet we look for absolutely different angles. Another reason to give this franchise its due.

I remain on my mind: with a good writer it will not happen. But in this moment I don't see any good writer able to do that.

This is another example of how a bad writer can waste an huge potential.

Anyway the X-Men has already been reunite, when Scott closed the New Xavier School and it isn't necessary a revolutionary faction of X-Men, because there is already a revolutionary mutant team: X-Force.

I wasn't saying that there mustn't be other leaders. Indeed they must be, because it is essential to write complex and various stories.

In my mind Jean would be the leader of the mutant race only for the very first time. The time needed to reunite the X-Men and rebuild peaceful relations (peaceful?) with the human race. After that it is necessary start a process of creation of different mutant factions.

For example Magneto should become again the Sovereign of Genosha and he might be again the forerunner of the necessity to create a nation for the mutants. Wanda and Pietro might be on the opposite side to their father, choosing to live like humans, with the humans, among the humans and fight strenuously the father's ideas; also on the ground of the politic.

Cable might be again a guerrilla for the mutants' freedom.

In short I think it is necessary built a very complex scenario in order to make the x-stories fascinating and varied.

I love talk with people who have ideas opposing to my: it is the better way to understand if I'm right of wrong.

@ec2277:

I remain on my mind: with a good writer it will not happen. But in this moment I don't see any good writer able to do that.

So I stand corrected :p

Anyway the X-Men has already been reunite, when Scott closed the New Xavier School and it isn't necessary a revolutionary faction of X-Men, because there is already a revolutionary mutant team: X-Force.

Everything depends on a context, X-force maybe a new, separate, yet still X-brand, or a different thing at whole.

In my mind Jean would be the leader of the mutant race only for the very first time. The time needed to reunite the X-Men and rebuild peaceful relations (peaceful?) with the human race. After that it is necessary start a process of creation of different mutant factions.

I would think she should deal with her inner issues rather than become a public face post-resurrection. Seriously, what will she bring to the table after leaving as a goddess in the heart of creation? :p

For example Magneto should become again the Sovereign of Genosha and he might be again the forerunner of the necessity to create a nation for the mutants. Wanda and Pietro Cable might be on the opposite side to their father, choosing to live like humans, with the humans, among the humans and fight strenuously the father's ideas; also on the ground of the politic.

Not sure I understand why you brought them up together, care to explain? I'll touch everything else right after.

In short I think it is necessary built a very complex scenario in order to make the x-stories fascinating and varied.

That's what I'm talking about!!

I love talk with people who have ideas opposing to my: it is the better way to understand if I'm right of wrong.

I don't think there's right or wrong here, it's only opinions, those are even less insignificant to the universe than our physical presence ;)

In Marvel, I don't see great writer in Marvel.

Because it is only a silly excuse to justify the decision to erase Jean by the Marvel stories, while stories like Phoenix Warsong show that Phoenix don't needs of Jean to work. Excaclty like forty years of x-stories show that Jean doesn't need of Phoenix to work.

How bring back Jean?

It's the simplest thing in the world: she chose to return to live, because there's need of her.

My mistake with "cut and paste".

i like whats blod

@ec2277: im amazed that most ppl voted for jean to be with scott

@hopesummersforthefuture:

No, I'm not amazed about that: Jean and Scott wasn't the usual romantic couple in a superhero comic book. They were a real superhero couple, involved in a romantic relationship and they left a good reminder in a lot of readers.

P.S. What is mean, «I like what's blood»?

@ec2277:

Because it is only a silly excuse to justify the decision to erase Jean by the Marvel stories, while stories like Phoenix Warsong show that Phoenix don't needs of Jean to work. Excaclty like forty years of x-stories show that Jean doesn't need of Phoenix to work.

I mean in universe - she's resurrected, ok. But who is she right now? After being Prime Phoenix so long.

@ec2277:

Jean can be only Jean and it is the canon which give us this possibility: in Classic X-Men 42 we can see Jean who establishes the first psychic contact with Scott, or better we can see Phoenix itself which appear, forging the psychic bond between Scott and Jean. In Classic X-Men 8 we can see Phoenix appear again, in order to help Jean to save Scott. During the following stories of the X-Men we can see Phoenix which becomed Jean, live like her and love like her. In the end of Inferno it is revealed that the soul of the Phoenix was incarnated first in Madelyne and then, after the death of the latter, we can se that soul has returned to be part of Jean. In the following stories of X-Factor Scott ask to Jean if she wants marry him, but she said not because she doesn't understand if she wants really marry him or is Phoenix which wants it. During Phoenix Endsong we can see Phoenix which say to Jean: «So this longing I feel belong to you. I only come back because you wanted it. Because you wanted feel it again.» During the Fraction's run of Uncanny X-Men we can see Phoenix appear and torment Emma, saying: «She [Jean] left you in a coma on a whim. She destroys your mind whenever she touches you. Scott loved her in a way he will never love you and she always come back.»

This latter sentence what is if not a claim of possession of Jean on Scott?

So who is become who?

Is Jean to be become Phoenix or is Phoenix to be become (again) Jean?

In the end if I remember well during Avengers versus X-Men, Scott said that there's something, which push Phoenix to come always back on the Earth.

What is that thing if not Scott himself?

If in Phoenix Endsong Jean wanted come back, why she choose to return in the White Hot Room?

Couldn't it be that Phoenix wanted become human and Jean chose to become one with Phoenix, in order to bonded in some way Phoenix to the mutant race? Helping in this way her people, like it happened during Avengers versus X-Men.

How you can see, if there was the will, there wouldn't be problems to bring back the real Jean. But because Marvel doesn't wants bring back Jean (for the moment), she remains in the White Hot Room.

In fact what is Teen Jean, if not a way (an ugly way) to give us Jean, without bring her back?

But in my opinion it is only matter of time and she will return: they know very well that the fans don't want Teen Jean, Ultimate Jean or any other Jean. The fans want the real Jean; like Bendis himsel said time ago. So, when readers there will be tired of Teen Jean, they will have to bring back the real Jean. Maybe they will can try to think up a new way to give us a Jean, without bring her back. But these gimmicks tire in the long term.

@hopesummersforthefuture: The sentence in that picture is interesting. I need time to comment it in a properly way.

I love Jean with Scott and Emma with Namor.

@hopesummersforthefuture: I think he always loves her, we had the proof in Phoenix Endsong, but that his love for Emma is stronger. And I have to say I prefer him to stay with Emma... We should try to find someone for Jean

@ec2277:

I think you misunderstood? I didn't even imply to ask "how to resurrect her" this is like the most obvious thing, "Phoenix" I mean? haha That's not the question. The question is, how to make a goddess human again?

Though, I'm pretty sure she will be sort of "mindwiped" so maybe I'm overthinking it.

@adamtrmm:

I thought I have already answered (maybe in a way too retorical): if you think about that, they have already make Phoenix human. It happened during the Phoenix Saga, during Phoenix Endsong and again Fraction gave us to understand Jean/Phoenix feels herself like the Scott's true love and the only real owner of his heart; see the picture on the right.

So theoretically there wouldn't be problem to bring back a Jean, who is both human than Phoenix; exactly like she was during the Phoenix Saga.

@ec2277:

I think we're coming from different points of thinking. Mine? Last time we've seen Jean toying with an alternative future, I think, undoing it? So baseline human! :)

If anything, I'd like to see an ultimate story of Phoenix Force explaining everything about it from all existing angles and beyond, but in reality, I don't think I trust anyone to write this tale, moreover no one will think about it since "plot devices" need to be as ambiguous as possible to serve many kinds of justifications in-story. Sadly, PF is no concept anymore, it is a plot device and nothing more...

I prefer Scott/Jean. If they want to bring this relationship back they need to stop having Jean flirt with Wolverine for drama. Makes her look very bad.

I don't know if I have understood. Are you talking about the end of "Here comes tomorrow" and are you saying that her behaviour was totally human?

@pizzaman: The whole Jean flirting with Wolverine thing started with the Grant Morrison run which was influenced by their chemistry in the first X-Men film that came out just before the run, i really blame the movies for the bad influence making this triangle a standard in the X-Men books ever since, well the damage is done, Cyke/Jean relationship now has a very bad rep among comic book fans and has become too messed up to ever work again, they have a lot of crappy history and baggage including Wolverine, Emma and i cant imagine it ever getting properly resolved, in fact any kind of relationship with (adult) Cyclops will never work anymore. Young Tyke/Jeen is the only chance to ever work for them and hopefully its done without any bullshit like having secret attraction towards other people other shit and actually develop their relationship (and friendship) for once without having to resort to cheap drama as all it does is cheapen both characters and loose their integrity. It's already too late for adult Cyclops who is far too damaged to have any kind of healthy relationship, it's better for him to be single he may become even more interesting now, i'm invested in Tyke/Jeen, hopefully the next writer does a good job developing them. and P.S. even with some of the hate young Jeen is getting i still think she is more interesting than adult Jean.

Everyone knows Claremont started the Scott/Jean/Wolverine triangle.

i like jean even if its teen jean better then no jean at all ......i was going to quit x-men comics after avx which sucked but then they were bringing back the o5 teens so i stayed for that. i have every copy of anxm even if the interest for it began to drop

It really is best for Jean's character if she is no longer associated with Cyclops. I think they should give Jean Grey the opportunity to have friendships and romantic relations with other people. She's never really had that because of an over-reliance on the "woman in a refrigerator" story.

If they stick with Jeen, I wouldn't mind seeing something develop between her and Spider-Miles. They could be a great new power-couple.

@pizzaman: Yes i know Claremont started it, but at the time Jean was always avoiding Logan despite the attraction, she never really flirted with him, it was always Logan force kissing her, it was during the Morrison run when they kissed and it was mutual.

Anyways, have you guys seen the X-Men Apocalypse set photos, here are Cyclops, Jean, Nightcrawler, Jubilee :

teen jean can be MJ to spidy-miles, lol i think hes one year younger 0.0

I prefer Jean six feet under never to return. Though I find she's better off as mulch.

Nothing wrong with that!

And that's related to the thread topic how?

I don't understand what are you write: do you like Jean, even if Teen Jean is better and so you prefere if Marvel will not bring back Jean, or do do you like Jean, even if it is better have Teen Jean rather don't have any Jean?

hopesummersforthefuture said:

In my opinionhis s the purpose of Teen Jean: don't lost the fan's Jean, without bring her back. In fact I didn't collected All New X-Men because before I wanted understand what Marvel wanted doing with the Original 5 and I wanted understand if the titles worthed the expense; in my opinion not.

In my opinion the relationship between Jean and Scott had never damaged the characters, because they are developed to be perfectly complementary and able to act alone and together. There was a good equilibrium between them and so in my opinion the only thing that Jean really needs, is a writer who bring her back and able that write about her in a good way. If her will be associated again to Scott, it is a secondary issue.

@sagiravi said:

Anyways, have you guys seen the X-Men Apocalypse set photos, here are Cyclops, Jean, Nightcrawler, Jubilee :

Meh Sansa Stark doesn't make a good Jean.

Yeah it's what she's an expert at lol.

@avenger85:

Jean is just like a phoenix: she isn't really dead not even when she is dead. In a way or in another she is still in the centre of the X-Men stories, even when her last story was printed ten years ago. In fact we are still talking about her; also you.

P.S. I prefere a good actress (like Sophie Turner is) in the role of Jean Grey to a beautiful body who try to be an actress. We are talking about an X-Men movie, not about an X-Men porno parody.

Latest "100th Anniversary" issue where Jean has a pretty disturbing appearance. Didn't read the issue but seen some scans.

I mean she transcended, she's more than just mortal already, so making her come back so it won't look silly is an impossible job for current writers I say..

It is a story out of canon, which end with Jean who erase that timeline, creating another timeline in which she and Scott are still married.

They are comics and in a comics can happen whatever the writer wants to happen; if the editor agree.

;-)

@ec2277 said:

It is a story out of canon, which end with Jean who erase that timeline, creating another timeline in which she and Scott are still married.

They are comics and in a comics can happen whatever the writer wants to happen; if the editor agree.

;-)

That book is a total What-If. Best case scenario, alternate reality ending.

@avenger85 said:

@ec2277 said:

It is a story out of canon, which end with Jean who erase that timeline, creating another timeline in which she and Scott are still married.

They are comics and in a comics can happen whatever the writer wants to happen; if the editor agree.

;-)

That book is a total at-If. Best case scenario, alternate reality ending.

are u mad cause scott went back to jean and left emma in the dust? (avenger85)

I wish he left both in the dust, Jean and Emma .

@hopesummersforthefuture said:

@avenger85 said:

@ec2277 said:

It is a story out of canon, which end with Jean who erase that timeline, creating another timeline in which she and Scott are still married.

They are comics and in a comics can happen whatever the writer wants to happen; if the editor agree.

;-)

That book is a total at-If. Best case scenario, alternate reality ending.

are u mad cause scott went back to jean and left emma in the dust? (avenger85)

are u mad cuz re-read post English plz

I definitely prefer Jean with Scott.

I want Scott and Jean to be together!

I never cared for Logan at all, and I definitely didn't want Logan to get with Jean.

I always thought that Logan was too violent, restless, and animal-like.

Scott has been reserved because he's forced to live his life seeing the world behind ruby quartz glasses that protects him from hurting others. That's a bad way to live.

Behind all that reserve, he has a lot of passion that definitely comes out when people are threatened. He's shown signs of that in the earliest comics in the 60s.

Besides a few kisses, nothing really happened between Jean and Logan. They didn't have an affair of any kind.

Logan came off like a foil to Scott.

Logan has never been in a relationship with Jean.

IMHO Scott Summers and Jean Grey are the most iconic couple in X-Men history and one of the most iconic couples in Marvel History.

I didn't get interested in X-Men until I was reading X-Factor when it first came out in 1980s.

My favorite X-Men characters were always Scott Summers and Jean Grey, and I always liked them as a couple.

I didn't read the Phoenix Saga comics until 1991. Therefore, I liked Jean Grey long before I first read the Phoenix stories.

I think Jean Grey was cool as Marvel Girl and not just as Phoenix.

I have no problem with how teen Jean is being portrayed in the comics

.

I have read about the psychic affair that Scott had with Emma.

What I got from it was that Scott was traumatized and deeply changed from merging with Apocalypse into one being for over 6 months. I'd understand that Scott would end up dark and edgy after that horrible experience. I would expect him to have some type of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Heck...if that happened to Jean, I would think that she would end up going Dark Phoenix and end up killing the whole Earth and its Solar System! Scott turned to Emma for helping deal with the issues. Jean being the Phoenix and the headmistress of The Xavier school seemed to make Scott feel that she was unavailable and remote.

Scott was very vulnerable at the time, and it was easy for Emma to take advantage of Scott in her role as friend/therapist.

With all that in mind, I don't view Scott as a selfish,inconsiderate jerk who just went and cheated on Jean.

I just see him as a deeply troubled and changed man that made wrong choices.

Jean made wrong choices too. She's been attracted to Logan and kissed him. She even wanted to pursue an affair with him, but Logan convinced Jean that it wasn't a good idea and should just work out her marriage with Scott.

She was feeling misunderstood and lonely because of the marriage under a strain due to Scott's changes from his experience with Apocalypse.

I don't view her as a cheating slut.

Considering all that I mentioned, I don't view Scott and Jean as having been wrong for each other as couple that shouldn't have gotten together. They were an extraordinary couple that lived extraordinary lives and had extraordinary experiences which include extraordinary challenges.

I don't think any normal human beings could have gone through all that.

I believe that Scott and Jean can be reunited, and it's definitely something that I would like to see happen.

Heck...Now that Scott has experience with Phoenix , I think that Scott and Jean would be able to relate more to each other.

If Jean does come back, I wouldn't want her to get together with Scott right away.

I believe that she should just concentrate on reintegrating with the people that she knows,find herself, and just be with her friends without any romantic entanglements. She could be in adventures and missions with the other X-Men. She could be a leader and mentor again. During all that, she and Scott could develop a deep friendship and build up the trust before reuniting as a couple.

Whether they end up being a couple again is all up to the writers and people in charge of them.

Everything in the comics is up to the writers and people in charge of them.

What characters do in the comics is what writers make them do.

Of course, not everybody is going to be pleased with anything that is written in the comics. There is always going to be somebody that dislikes stories,characters, and couples that somebody else likes.

I definitely don't see things in black and white.

I believe that there is gray is in everything.

I also believe that everything is relative.

Perceptions are indeed relative.

The evidence is in the diversity of views about everything.

I definitely love X-Men for its diversity.

How come the original post has only a picture of Logan and Jean kissing?

How come it doesn't have a picture of Scott and Jean kissing?

It seems that most people that did the poll prefer Jean with Scott

66 percent - Scott

34 percent - Logan

It's not even close.

Scott and Jean are the most iconic couple in X-Men History and one of the most iconic couples in Marvel History.

Not even a triangle involving Logan can take away from that.

I voted "no" - not a huge fan of Jean/Scott, when they're together they're kinda sickening and when they're not, Jean casts a shadow so large she doesn't have to be alive to continually keep mucking things up.

Jean has a tendancy to make Scott more pathetic that he already is, it's something I can do without.

I liked Scott/Emma a lot, to be honest. I think the 'ship was great for their characters - had a good run.

In response

"No, I was just talking about Claremont: for example during the Inferno saga Logan kissed Jean (Uncanny X-Men 242) in front of all the members of X-Men and X-Factor, without any reaction of Scott. On the contrary Jean enjoyed the kiss and Logan said that she wanted him, not Scott (or something like that). This episode and some appendix stories "Classic X-Men", gave an immagine of Scott like a weak man and of Jean like an unfaithful fiance."

I looked over Uncanny X-Men 242.

Wolverine kissed Jean without asking. He got her by surprise.

Jean had her eyes closed when Wolverine kissed her, and it did seem that she was into it.

Logan never said that she wanted him, not Scott.

Scott did react. He was pissed.

Wolverine: Worth waiting for eh, Jeannie?

Jean: Wuh, Wolverine? WHAT?!!?

Scott: That's enough, mister -- LET HER GO!

Wolverine: What's your problem, bub? Why so greedy, Cyclops? You already got a redhead..remember? Your Wife!

But What the hey , you want the lady, take her..- If you can

Jean: I'm NOBODY'S property, Wolverine! I won't be fought over -- or manhandled -- even by somebody I once considered a friend!

Jean telekinetically threw Wolverine away from her.

Jean also said: Storm, control your people.. and Scott, control yourself!

she thought: I should take my own advice. I'd forgotten the effect Wolverine had on me. That kiss. Blast him, that kiss!

Wolverine: Your ads Beastie-boy, your rep. Hard to deny what you worked so hard to build. Just like it's impossible for Jean to deny the truth.

My senses tell me you LOVED that kiss, Darlin. an' you want more

Scott and Jean were holding each and looking at Wolverine.

Archangel got into it with Wolverine and pointed out that Jean was spoken for.

Wolverine came off like a disrespectful animal-like jerk in the comic scenes.

Scott did react to how Wolverine to the point that Jean did tell him to control himself.

I didn't read anything in Classic X-Men series that shows Jean to look like an unfaithful fiance.

Those words that Jean said that are show in the original post for the poll

it's from a comic book that was written by Chris Claremont in 1986 which was when X-Factor started.

As you know, Chris Claremont hated the Jean-Scott relationship after Jean was resurrected and Scott left his wife. If Claremont had his way, Jean would have stayed dead. He had plans to have Jean have a deeper connection with Logan. He also had plans to have Jean choose between Scott and Logan with the possible of a surprising choice. He wanted to destroy the Sc

the Classic X-Men series that he was writing was at the same time that the X-Factor was written.

In Classic X-Men #1

Jean is by herself leaning against the tree and thinking to herself about the greatly increased number of X-Men

then Wolverine comes by and catches her by surprise

Wolverine: As Lovely as you, you should never frown.

Jean: Wolverine! You startled me.

Wolverine: One of the things I do best.

Jean is thinking: How'd he come so close without me spotting him? I wasn't even aware of his thoughts!

Wolverine: Brew? (holding some cans of beer)

Jean: No. Thank you.

Wolverine: Kind'a Man I am, Darlin. I know what I want the minute I lay eyes on it. An' what Wolverine wants, he gets. Hearts poundin', Jeannie -- You're breathin' awful fast. Gives me the impression this feelin's mutual.

Jean: You're..mistaken

Wolverine: Wanna bet.

Jean: Wolverine - No Please - This a mistake.

Warren aka Angel sees Wolverine with Jean and thinks that he's harassing her, and so he attacks Wolverine

Jean telekinetically stops Warren and Wolverine from fighting

This was the comic issue that Jean tells Professor Xavier about her attraction to Wolverine and her fears of yielding,

Wolverine came off like a predator and was coming onto Jean very strong.

How a couple is in comics really depends on the writers.

Also the perceptions of readers vary.

Some think a couple is good, and others think it's bad.

That is with any couple.

I disagree.

I believe that Jean is not the wrong woman for Scott and that Scott is not the wrong man for Jean.

I believe that a Scott/Jean relationship can work if the writers leave out the love triangle which was something that was originated by Chris Claremont who the one that created the Wolverine character that was originally created to be a villain.

What the characters do are determined by the writers.

A relationship can work out if it's written well by the writers.

A relationship doesn't have to be doomed if the writer doesn't want.

Some writers want to add triangles to add drama and conflict as well as to spice things up.

They also writing characters unfavorably in order to make their particular opposing characters look better.

Writers' biases strongly influence the writings of characters for better or worse.

I have read about the psychic affair that Scott had with Emma.

What I got from it was that Scott was traumatized and deeply changed from merging with Apocalypse into one being for over 6 months. I'd understand that Scott would end up dark and edgy after that horrible experience. I would expect him to have some type of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Heck...if that happened to Jean, I would think that she would end up going Dark Phoenix and end up killing the whole Earth and its Solar System! Scott turned to Emma for helping deal with the issues. Jean being the Phoenix and the headmistress of The Xavier school seemed to make Scott feel that she was unavailable and remote.

Scott was very vulnerable at the time, and it was easy for Emma to take advantage of Scott in her role as his therapist. That is very unethical. She disrespected Scott and Jean's marriage.

With all that in mind, I don't view Scott as a selfish,inconsiderate jerk who just went and cheated on Jean.

I just see him as a deeply troubled and changed man that made wrong choices.

Jean made wrong choices too. She's been attracted to Logan and kissed him. She even wanted to pursue an affair with him, but Logan convinced Jean that it wasn't a good idea and should just work out her marriage with Scott.

She was feeling misunderstood and lonely because of the marriage under a strain due to Scott's changes from his experience with Apocalypse.

I don't view her as a cheating slut.

Considering all that I mentioned, I don't view Scott and Jean as having been wrong for each other as couple that shouldn't have gotten together. They were an extraordinary couple that lived extraordinary lives and had extraordinary experiences which include extraordinary challenges.

I don't think any normal human beings could have gone through all that.

Jean rescued Scott from Apocalypse. She loved Scott so much that she refused to believe that he was dead. She and Cable searched for him, found him, and rescued him.

@glaucus: ppl say scott with emma is change and new age for the next generation while the old fans get Sc***ed

Scott/Jean is just gross. It's based entirely around dependency (Scott needing a mommy) and people only want it for exactly 2 reasons:

-Nostalgia, just because that's how it used to be

and/or

-Jean as trophy and proof that Cyclops has sex.

The relationship does nothing for Jean Grey and what it does for Cyclops (confirming for those that use him as a vessel that he can get girls) can be accomplished with any character.

They should just make an original character for Cyclops to bang.

This is the biggest time in history for female characters and Jean should be allowed to grow in it.

It isn correct.

Scott didn't ever need a mommy (before Morrison) and Jean was never a mommy.

Gallery

Gallery

Not people want it because it was a good relationship, which never weight down the stories. On the contrary it was a good way to develop the characters and examine them in depth.

Their relationship was never a way to prove that Cyclops has sex. In fact their relationship started only with X-Men 64 and they kissed for the first time in X-Men 94. If anything we can say that their relationship was based entirely around to be both X-Men.

If anything we can say that Coleen Wing, Psylocke, Tempus, Maria Hill, X-23, Veleena and also Emma Frost were a way to prove that he was seductive. It is evident comparing the only sex scene with Scott and Jean, with the sex scene with Emma of Betsy.

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So rather than say it was a relationship based on the dependancy and it was only a way to proof that Cyclops had sex, it is right say that they was the only adult relationship in the x-stories.

@phoenixegg said:

Their relationship did the most important thing for both the characters: it definited them. In fact the writers used their relationship to make Jean a reference point of all the X-Men. In origin she was a feminist before her time, an implacable fighter, a "sergeant in a skirt". But while her relationship with Cyclops was developed and the writers used Jean to broke his shell of solitude, the writers developed also Jean, making her the perfect match to Scott. She became emphatic, where Scott is uncommunicative. She became sympathetic, where Scott was too hard; also with himself. But the writers never forget her harsh temper.

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Fighting and suffering together, they became two adult and very complex characters. Perfectly able to act together, because they are perfectly complementary, but also able to act alone; in fact Nicieza and Lobdell put Jean in the Golden Team and Scott in the Blue Team.

Cyclops didn't need a woman to bang. He need a woman able to be the bridge between him and the others, because he is too harsh, too uncommunicative. But that woman have to be also a warrior, because Scott didn't need a sweet doll, who should be only a dead weight for him and Jean was that kind of woman.

It is very difficult grow a character who have already reach the maturity. It was enough restart to write Scott and Jean like they were wrote in their best times and Lobdell started to do it with Eve of Destruction, where Wolverine killed two Magneto's guards and after that he asks to Cyclops if isn’t going to lecture him about what he just did. But Cyclops tells him that they are at war and the guards chose their sides, so Wolverine asks Cyclops if he still wants to act like nothing has changed since he merged with Apocalypse and Cyclops tells that he hasn’t changed.

But Morrison destroyed his job because the goal was broke the marriage between Scott and Jean, kill Jean and put Emma in her place, in order to start that evolution already started by Lobdell.

I think I have answered to you: this isn't a new age for Scott, because they have just restart to write him how he always was.

I think also in this post you may find my opinion about the picture on the right, which you posted time ago.

You are right. I remeber badly.

P.S. This post was a distress: the "forum's post eater" have deleted what I have written three times.

For me, the problem with Jean and Scott was that they were boring. They certainly weren't "gross" or anything, but their love story lacked heat. Sure, Jean was the Phoenix, and that's undoubtedly one of the greatest stories ever told in comics. But the problem with Claremont's Phoenix arc was that the story did all of the work, and Jean's personality and characteristics were never really developed beyond "beautiful compassionate powerful female character." Jean was never really flawed or relateable -- likable enough but never especially 3 dimensional or compelling. All there was to her was her (albeit super exciting) relationship with the cosmic entity none as Phoenix.

Scott, on the other hand, was more psychologically interesting than Jean, but he just wasn't particularly likable. We all understood that the reason he was so uptight and lame was that he lost his parents really young and was an orphan with a power that prevented him from forming interpersonal relationship and feeling loved . . . great, tragic backstory that gives the character a lot of pathos. That said, he was always "the man" -- the guy who made overly strict rules and was bossy and inflexible and lacking basic empathy. He was a lot like Michael Scott on the office, honestly.

So yeah, it was sort of hard to be too big a fan of Scott and Jean's relationship, although the excellent writing that Claremont did gave their storyline an epic, love story for all ages feel. Scott was too lame and Jean was too perfect.

Pairing Scott with Emma was genius. Scott taking a walk on the wild side was a lot of fun, and it truly revitalized his character and made him one of Marvel's most interesting characters. Cyclops as a Walter White/Don Draper style anti-hero is an irresistible notion, and we partially have Emma to thank for that development in his character. And Emma's character too worked better than Jean's ever did on the level of personality and psychology. Although she doesn't have a Phoenix level story, her character is allowed to be something that writers never let Jean Grey be -- imperfect. Despite Emma's supernatural good looks and lascivious/overly sexualized design, she was still a smash hit with fans because her character was probably the first female X-Men (to my knowledge) who was allowed to be really funny among a bunch of soap-opera histrionics. Here was a female character who wasn't forced to self-sacrificing and compassionate and maternal all at once. Emma showed herself to be selfish, deceitful, cruel, and self-destructive, and because she was allowed to be flawed, Emma became a character with whom we can all relate, almost a sort of female Spider-man, in a way. All through out their relationship, Emma and Scott were both very damaged people, and as their story continued, their actions and decisions became more and more morally ambiguous, to the point where they might be considered villains. Emma and Scott were the opposite of boring together -- they were one hell of a good time.

So while Scott and Jean will always among the most iconic and important relationships in superhero comics, it just wasn't as compelling as the love story Emma and Scott. At least, that's how I see it.

But here's the thing: Emma and Scott are done. Their relationship has reached it's natural conclusion, and we all need to let go of it, as hard as that may be. Both characters need some time to be single, to be developed unhindered by a relationship. I think we can all agree that Emma and Scott had their chance, and now we all need to move on.

As far as future couplings go, I'm not really show where any of them can go next. Who could Scott possibly date that would measure up to Jean Grey or Emma Frost? It'd be weird and awkward to put him with Ororo or Rogue, and Magik is basically a child in a woman's body so that's weird. As for Emma, I'm not really sure who is in her league either? Who do you date after being with the leader of the X-Men? Ditto with adult Jean, although I've always sort of liked her with Wolvie I know it wouldn't work in the long run. I have no problem with the teen Jean and Cyclops dating again though.

Maybe Cyclops could date Scarlet Witch? She's iconic enough to not be intimidated by having Jean Grey and Emma Frost as her boyfriend's exes (come on, you know that'd totally be a problem), and she's dramatic enough to keep things interesting. She's done some villainous things in her time too, so she ought to be able to relate to Scott on that level . . . but then again, is she still a mutant? For some reason I feel like Scott would never date someone who wasn't a mutant!

And I'll admit I haven't been following what's going on with Tony Stark (is he still married to Pepper Pots?), but if he's single I think he and Emma Frost would make a hilarious and hot couple! He's morally ambiguous enough to keep things interesting between them. Just a thought.

I love Jean with Scott. I grew up with them being lovers and always will love them together. I guess I'm old fashion.