Do powers matter anymore?

#1 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

I start to get the feeling that they don't.A weaker character can beat a significantly power character or hold their own.In AvX, Rachel Grey was having trouble with...Captain America.In AvX, some powers were ignore for the sake of the plot.What's the point of these powers then?They don't matter anymore.

#2 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

What IS the point in character-defining abilities?

#3 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

What IS the point in character-defining abilities?

huh?

#4 Posted by Skunkstein (582 posts) - - Show Bio

I like to think that they do, but unfortunately there is a lot of bad writers who screw up a characters power and their limit. On another note... AvX was really inconsistent, so its not the best argument.

#5 Posted by Spawn92 (278 posts) - - Show Bio

Im starting to feel this too. Although as long as the story is still good, I dont mind too much.

#6 Posted by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

Well Marvel writers are proving with increasing regularity that they have no idea what the hell they're doing anymore so probably not at this point

#7 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm starting to think that also, although for many years (especially recently) the powers of the Phoenix Force has been messed with so many times that I lost count of how many times they changed the history. I wish they would just stick to one power set for the character.

#8 Posted by XsPectre28 (667 posts) - - Show Bio

powers dont matter anymore.... its all about hype, x-men have been leading the marvel franchise for years but now with the avengers movies, iron man, capt. america & thor doing good in the movie-verse it spiraled the avx & was used as a platform to down grade & inter grade the x-men

#9 Posted by time (4576 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah , remember that rubbish, when, Iron Man beat Magneto.

#10 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700: Are you trying to imply that it is unusual or unjustified for someone to have a hard time taking down Captain-god#%$*&@-America? Because if so, you might want to reconsider. Cap is a legend, and for good reason. If you'd like just one example of his capabilities, I'll give you one of my favorites: Richard Ryder, the Nova that most of us are familiar with, spent three years mastering the cosmic powers contained in his helmet, and even then it nearly drove him mad. Cap mastered the Worldmind helmet, too...

In about five minutes. If you'd like proof, check the first Secret Avengers trade.

#11 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss said:

@moywar700: Are you trying to imply that it is unusual or unjustified for someone to have a hard time taking down Captain-god#%$*&@-America? Because if so, you might want to reconsider. Cap is a legend, and for good reason. If you'd like just one example of his capabilities, I'll give you one of my favorites: Richard Ryder, the Nova that most of us are familiar with, spent three years mastering the cosmic powers contained in his helmet, and even then it nearly drove him mad. Cap mastered the Worldmind helmet, too...

In about five minutes. If you'd like proof, check the first Secret Avengers trade.

Captain America is just a guy with a shield.Rachel Summers is TK/TP master.Cap never had the Worldmind helmet in the battle and Nova sucks.

#12 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss said:

@moywar700: Are you trying to imply that it is unusual or unjustified for someone to have a hard time taking down Captain-god#%$*&@-America? Because if so, you might want to reconsider. Cap is a legend, and for good reason. If you'd like just one example of his capabilities, I'll give you one of my favorites: Richard Ryder, the Nova that most of us are familiar with, spent three years mastering the cosmic powers contained in his helmet, and even then it nearly drove him mad. Cap mastered the Worldmind helmet, too...

In about five minutes. If you'd like proof, check the first Secret Avengers trade.

Captain America, is still just a mortal man.

Rachel Summers is pretty much a goddess.

#13 Edited by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700: I wasn't trying to imply that Captain America had the Worldmind helm during his fight with Summers. What I was trying to demonstrate was his exceptional strength (both physical and mental), which allowed him to master the incredible energy in the helmet in a matter of minutes. And no, he is much more than just "a guy with a shield." You're only demonstrating a pervasive ignorance of the character now.

As far as Nova "sucking," I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean you dislike the character and aren't interested in his stories, then I guess he "sucks" in that sense. But he is a cosmic power. He contains the strength of the entire Nova Corps in his body alone. He could legitimately give Summers a run for her money, especially since Cap only had a chance against him after he donned the man's helmet. I feel like your favorite character in this situation is Summers, and therefore you're not allowing yourself to see any eventual outcome that doesn't involve her dropping a deuce on any other hero (or heroine) that attempts to tango with her. A bit silly.

@John Valentine: Again, Cap is not just a mortal man. Is he mortal in that he can find death by violence? Yes. But the similarities between him and us end there. He's not just like Batman, who is at the peak of human physical and mental conditioning, because the Super Soldier Serum pushes him well beyond that.

I'm not saying he should have won the fight against Summers (and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe he did), but he is certainly no pushover.

#14 Posted by xmentas (173 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss: I wouldn't say he's the average mortal man either, he's a little above, however I still don't understand how he would win a fight against Rachel...that's just BS on the writers part....all he can do to harm people is hit them with his shield (which although is more than a shield since it's virtually indestructible and absorbs energy, is still used to slam onto people). So her TK/TP should of been more than enough to take him.

#15 Edited by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@xmentas: Well, that's the thing, though. He's not just "a little" above the average man. An Olympic athlete is a little above the average man. Batman is a bit above an Olympic athlete, in terms of ability and fitness. Captain America is way above Batman in those fields (where Batman would trump him would be in his investigative abilities and intuition). I guess folks have begun to underestimate what the Super Soldier serum is capable of. And again, I don't believe Cap won in the fight against Summers, unless I've misinterpreted what's been said. I haven't read the fight in question, but I am familiar with both characters, and while I agree that ultimately, Summers would win out with her powers, she wouldn't (as seems to be implied here) beat the holy hell out of Cap without him getting a hit in. And one last thing:

@xmentas said:

... all he can do to harm people is hit them with his shield.

You've got to know that's just wrong. A punch from Cap, to the average man, would be like getting hit with a small car.

EDIT: Also, that shield is made of vibranium, the toughest, most resilient metal known to man. Getting hit with it wouldn't be like getting hit with a piece of iron, or even steel. It would hurt more. A whole lot more.

#16 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27379 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss said:

@moywar700: Are you trying to imply that it is unusual or unjustified for someone to have a hard time taking down Captain-god#%$*&@-America? Because if so, you might want to reconsider. Cap is a legend, and for good reason. If you'd like just one example of his capabilities, I'll give you one of my favorites: Richard Ryder, the Nova that most of us are familiar with, spent three years mastering the cosmic powers contained in his helmet, and even then it nearly drove him mad. Cap mastered the Worldmind helmet, too...

In about five minutes. If you'd like proof, check the first Secret Avengers trade.

yea that was total PIS aswell as the time he tanked a Gambit charge wihout even a bruise

#17 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: Well, that's the thing... Neither of those are "PIS" (whatever that means... I'm assuming something akin to "bull#@$%"), they're simply examples of what Captain America can do. Maybe instead of looking at each demonstration of Cap's abilities and saying "oh, there's no way he could do that!" one should re-evaluate what they believe Cap is capable of. Because he deserves a whole lot more credit than this thread seems willing to give.

#18 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27379 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss said:

@Jonny_Anonymous: Well, that's the thing... Neither of those are "PIS" (whatever that means... I'm assuming something akin to "bull#@$%"), they're simply examples of what Captain America can do. Maybe instead of looking at each demonstration of Cap's abilities and saying "oh, there's no way he could do that!" one should re-evaluate what they believe Cap is capable of. Because he deserves a whole lot more credit than this thread seems willing to give.

PIS is Plot Induced Stupidity and I get you loves this character but he is still just a man all be it not a normal man but his only weapon is blunt force trauma and that is not enough to go up against a person that can kill you with a thought especially as Cap has shown to be susceptible to mind control in the past. Also controlling the entire Nova Force and Worldmind in seconds of putting a helmet on even though aliens that are far more resilient (mentally and physically) across the cosmos have failed to do so.

#19 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27379 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss: also getting put down by a gun shot yet tanking a point blank explosive without even getting knocked over is just plain stupid

#20 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: Yes, Cap is a favorite of mine, but you'll notice I have never said that he should have won against Summers. In fact, I believe I've said in almost every single post I've made in this thread that it was right and proper that he eventually lost. The only argument I was making was that it was right that he put up a fight. And it was. I'm not sure what your second post is referring to. I'm fairly certain the first bit is in reference to his death after Civil War, but I can't tell about the second bit. Maybe some context would be helpful.

Also, what superhero hasn't been submitted to mind control at some point throughout their tenure?

#21 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27379 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss: In AvX when Gambit super charges Caps suit and it explodes and it dosn't even leave a scratch on him. Now I'm not saying Cap should lose to Gambit but he damn well shouldn't be able to take a point blank explosion with no affect, he would have just avoided it

#22 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

I swear I won't be surprised if Cap is found out to be the Red Skull and the real Cap is stuck in Dimension Z.

#23 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: I agree with you there. Was there any explanation for it? Maybe Cap's suit dispersed the energy, or it traveled to his shield and fizzled? I don't know. I don't have an explanation for that one. Like I said, he's one of my favorites, but I do have my expectations for him in check.

#24 Posted by dangallant984 (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

@xmentas: unless it absorbs telekinetic energy ;)

#25 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (27379 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss: No Gambit tried charging his shield earlier in the fight and his suit straight up exploded, after it happened it was wrecked

#26 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: You're already half right.

#27 Posted by xmentas (173 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss: I meant to say a little bit higher than peak human performance, my bad. And yes he can punch too, my point here is that he can punch, kick, and throw his shield around. When it comes to fighting that's about it.

#28 Posted by Edamame (28007 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, you're right. It depends what power levels the character has at that particular time. For instance, a fully-powered Apocalypse is very different from a weakened Apocalypse. Having a variety of powers can give you an advantage in battle because .. you can use more than one ability.

#29 Posted by UltraBiel (328 posts) - - Show Bio

Well It's comics, and it is natural to see some character winning fights against stronger character just because they are more famous or the editors want them to get more attention.

Yet...it is not exactly somthiong new is it??

#30 Posted by HushoftheWind (632 posts) - - Show Bio

Powers were thrown out the window when Cap took charged explosion from Gambit in AvX

#31 Edited by Veitha (2320 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, AvX is full of PIS... Rachel Grey could beat Cap without taking a hit, and when Cap was charged by Gambit, well he should have lost the fight, or Remy could have used the ipnotic charm to controll him(but I don't think writers even know about that lol). The same can be said for Namor vs The Thing, Magneto vs IronMan, Magik vs Black Widow(seriously, Illyana could have killed her in a blink), Storm vs Black Panther and... Well, about every fight happened in AvX lol.

#32 Posted by DarkDay (492 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha said:

Well, AvX is full of PIS... Rachel Grey could beat Cap without taking a hit, and when Cap was charged by Gambit, well he should have lost the fight, or Remy could have used the ipnotic charm to controll him(but I don't think writers even know about that lol). The same can be said for Namor vs The Thing, Magneto vs IronMan, Magik vs Black Widow(seriously, Illyana could have killed her in a blink), Storm vs Black Panther and... Well, about every fight happened in AvX lol.

Gambit's charm power doesn't work that way. Also I've had it pointed out to me by a friend...yes Gambit is fighting Cap, but come the heck on. Cap is a living legend in the Marvel U and Gambit is not trying to murder Captain America. So yeah, it's a little stupid that the explosion didn't do anything, but it would be strange and pretty out of character if Gambit wasn't holding back in that fight, so if he miscalculated how much charge he was putting into the armor versus how much of it Cap could tank...well that happens. If Doom can create tech to give Magneto's powers trouble, so can Tony. Magik is just against some random woman, why would she feel the need to summon all her considerable power against a foe of that caliber. Storm and Panther were married and while not exactly happily at that point, you don't decide to just hit the man you love with lightning or with a hurricane.

I'm not trying to stick up for the crap fest that was AvX but come on. Everyone knows this was the fanboy, plot comes second, toy box and people need to get over it honestly.

#33 Edited by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700: I think it was a poorly thought out plot vehicle. I get the whole Hope is young and inexperienced but having Cap show her the difference in experience without an external means of equalizing the power gap was awkward. I don't think it had so much to do with powers as much as storytelling selection.

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