Dang it !!! ( MAJOR UXM #1 Spoilers)

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#1 Edited by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

Magnus, you sneaky, SNEAKY bastard !

Of all the people, I never expected Magneto to be the traitor mole in Cyclops' team ! But looking at the bright side, I think we will see the return of old-school Scott soon. As it seems like Marvel has put Cyke on the road to redemption and going back to his roots as the Mutant Boy-Scout. At least that's what Magnus' goal appears to be...

#2 Edited by HushoftheWind (803 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah when i open the book and seen the man sitting in the chair, i knew that was Magnus. So and instead guessing who that was in the book, and i was pretty much asking myself "why is he at shield?" When his birthright(pride) came into the equation, it all made sense.

#3 Posted by CTG (228 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder why he's bald now... probably something to do w/ the side effects of the Phoenix Force I guess.

You have to remember though, Cyclops is an expert strategist - probably the most skilled in that field in the MU. Taking that into account, I'm not 100% convinced this isn't a setup. Also you have to remember - how did Magneto get there? Remember SHIELD said he just appeared out of nowhere... almost like he was teleported. Unless Magik (or Tempus) is turning against Cyclops also - which is highly doubtful - I call shenanigans.

#4 Posted by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

What I REALLY hope doesn't happen is Cyclops dying. It would really suck if they killed Scott off. I have a feeling that after Mystique revealed her plan, this might be one of the possibilities. Current Scott martyring himself after the O5 talk some sense into him then go back to their own timeline, seems to be where all this is headed.

#5 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenger85: What, really??? I could live with that, Cyclops 616 is makes me feel like Opie in SoA. He's is just too worn out to be like he used to in a lot of ways. If they can fix him great, kill him...I guess Im ok with that. But make it good.

#6 Edited by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

@chasereis: Maybe, but thats just a theory. I dont think they'd actually kill that guy. Cyclops is the face of X-Men. If there's one guy who will carry on the legacy of Xavier, it's gonna be Scott. Just redeeming him is OK with me. It does seem like the better option IMO.

And this is comics. Dead people dont stay dead for long. Maybe the O5 Cyclops will kill him & take his place. But yeah, Uncanny X-Men without Cyclops is just not gonna cut it. Think about it, they killed off Peter Parker, Superman, Robin, etc., but they always return one way or another, you can't have their comics without the leading person. i'm sure Xavier will return too.

#7 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenger85: Kill him and take his place? Thats is pretty interesting too. I guess I was just musing a return to Classic Cyclops then martyring him with O5 Cyke taking over. That would be cool too. But I can take the redemption route too, as long as he has some type of return to form.

#8 Posted by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

@chasereis: Yeah X-Men without Cyclops is gonna be something like Doc Ock in Peter Parker's body. Regardless of Wolverine having a school of his own, Uncanny X-men team needs a leader, and not even Magneto can take Cyke's place. It's like Avengers without Captain America & Iron Man.

Jean died because she is NOT the heart & soul of the team, the team ( and mutant population ) can go on without her, but without Cyclops, crap is gonna hit the fan for everyone.

#9 Edited by Veitha (2895 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm reading it right now and... Wow, I didn't expect this, absolutely.

But this is bad writing, really. Mags likes Cyclops more than he liked Charles, he helped him to escape from prison!! If he wanted to destroy him, he could have just left him in that jail.

#10 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Men went quite a while without Scott at the Helm. Uncanny's particular team, however, was made specifically for him and this story.

To say that X-Men in particular could not survive without him is a fallacy. Cyke has become a cool character (and really not the cardboard cutout leader he was in th e90s), but to say that everything in Mutantdom rests on him being around is the epitome of fanboy crush.

It survived without him in the spotlight before. It can do so again.

As far as 'fixing' Cyclops... this current continuity of Scott is the most dynamic and interesting he has been in decades. The bland scott was worn out and really just blah. This new, edgier individual he has become is what made him popular. His downward spiral has made him a more realistic individual.

Someone commented in another thread that they liked him because he took tragedy after tragedy on the chin and kept moving on-- the way he did so (with no adverse effects on his moods, etc) is extremely unrealistic and unbelievable. No one emerges from trauma of the type he has been through unscathed. Now, we finally get to see and have watched how it all just began to effect him--which has been awesome.

Sure, bring him back to a more Xavier-esque line of thought... but taking away his edge will take away what has made him both believable and popular again.

#11 Posted by danhimself (22278 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha said:

I'm reading it right now and... Wow, I didn't expect this, absolutely.

But this is bad writing, really. Mags likes Cyclops more than he liked Charles, he helped him to escape from prison!! If he wanted to destroy him, he could have just left him in that jail.

he helped him escape before he knew that his powers were screwed up....Magneto has always reveled in his powers and his control over them...to have them screwed up and almost completely out of control is a huge hit to his ego and he's obviously blaming Cyclops for that

#12 Posted by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkxSeraph: Actually, the responsibility of all of Mutantdom does rest on his shoulders. He actually is giving all the mutants a fighting chance now. He did save all of mutantkind. People are now supporting him and wearing their "Cyclops were right" shirts for a reason.

Actually, neither the X-Men, nor the Avengers won AvX. Cyclops won AvX.

#13 Posted by Veitha (2895 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

@Veitha said:

I'm reading it right now and... Wow, I didn't expect this, absolutely.

But this is bad writing, really. Mags likes Cyclops more than he liked Charles, he helped him to escape from prison!! If he wanted to destroy him, he could have just left him in that jail.

he helped him escape before he knew that his powers were screwed up....Magneto has always reveled in his powers and his control over them...to have them screwed up and almost completely out of control is a huge hit to his ego and he's obviously blaming Cyclops for that

But he doesn't just accuse Cyke because of his powers, he's called him a murderer and he said that he's not the mutant savior but he will destory the mutant race. Someone doesn't change his own opinion this fast lol even if he has just discovered that he's lost his powers. I could accept him being angry with Scott because of this, but the other things he said were completely out of character.

#14 Posted by judasnixon (6182 posts) - - Show Bio

The one thing that bugs me is why is Magneto's powers all wonky? He was never a part of the Phoenix Five disco dance team? I don't know if they explained it and I just missed it or what. I thought this issue was fine with a few exception for bad Dialogue, mostly out of Magik surprisingly. I'm pretty sure magneto is doing the whole double agent thing. I think its all part of Cyclops's master plan what ever that is.........

#15 Posted by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha: TBH, Hope Summers had the Phoenix Force, but it was Scott who fought off the Avengers and actually put the phoenix force to use for the mission it intended to carry out. He is more of the mutant messiah than Hope ever was.

"Cyclops Was Right." LOLOLOLOL

#16 Edited by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio
Actually, the responsibility of all of Mutantdom does rest on his shoulders. He actually is giving all the mutants a fighting chance now. He did save all of mutantkind. People are now supporting him and wearing their "Cyclops were right" shirts for a reason.

Oh, dear god. Yes... okay... so, let's scrap all the X-Men books not starring Scott, then, shall we? He's all they need.

The sheer truth of the matter that so many Die-hard Scott fans refuse to admit is that he's a figure head and a central character, yes... but he's only one of many in the mutant/human conflict. He just took a really hard line.

Scott decided to go straight offensive and defensive, while Logan and the JGSHL is going the old Xavier route... but if anyone thinks those kids will die or be lost without a Scott Summers out there doing what he is doing now, they are horribly deluded.

In the 80s and 90s Scott played some roles, sure.. but he was ultimately replaceable by someone else entirely. He wasn't integral. The books will not fall apart without him. He could die right now and it would be a ripple. No end of mutantdom. No fall of the mutants. Same with Wolverine. Or Magneto... etc, etc.

Scott's roll in AvX was ultimately one of someone who did what was needed. Several other characters could have fit that mold if Cyke was not available, for instance.
#17 Posted by danhimself (22278 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha said:

@danhimself said:

@Veitha said:

I'm reading it right now and... Wow, I didn't expect this, absolutely.

But this is bad writing, really. Mags likes Cyclops more than he liked Charles, he helped him to escape from prison!! If he wanted to destroy him, he could have just left him in that jail.

he helped him escape before he knew that his powers were screwed up....Magneto has always reveled in his powers and his control over them...to have them screwed up and almost completely out of control is a huge hit to his ego and he's obviously blaming Cyclops for that

But he doesn't just accuse Cyke because of his powers, he's called him a murderer and he said that he's not the mutant savior but he will destory the mutant race. Someone doesn't change his own opinion this fast lol even if he has just discovered that he's lost his powers. I could accept him being angry with Scott because of this, but the other things he said were completely out of character.

this might not be a sudden change though...he could have had this planned from the moment Cyclops killed Xavier...and helping him bust out of prison and joining him might just have been to cement that trust that Cyclops has in him...maybe Magneto wants a worse punishment than to have him just sitting in prison

#18 Posted by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

"Scott's roll in AvX was ultimately one of someone who did what was needed. Several other characters could have fit that mold if Cyke was not available, for instance."

I gotto disagree with you on that one, man. No other person could have done what Cyke did. It's not just about doing what's needed, it's making the hard, almost impossible decisions that others will hate you for but still going ahead with it, because you feel it's the right thing to do.

That is exactly what Mystique told Young Scott, and although she was manipulating him in other ways, telling the Cyke of Zurr-En-Arrh what he's really all about was the part where she DIDN'T lie.

#19 Edited by Veitha (2895 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

@Veitha said:

@danhimself said:

@Veitha said:

I'm reading it right now and... Wow, I didn't expect this, absolutely.

But this is bad writing, really. Mags likes Cyclops more than he liked Charles, he helped him to escape from prison!! If he wanted to destroy him, he could have just left him in that jail.

he helped him escape before he knew that his powers were screwed up....Magneto has always reveled in his powers and his control over them...to have them screwed up and almost completely out of control is a huge hit to his ego and he's obviously blaming Cyclops for that

But he doesn't just accuse Cyke because of his powers, he's called him a murderer and he said that he's not the mutant savior but he will destory the mutant race. Someone doesn't change his own opinion this fast lol even if he has just discovered that he's lost his powers. I could accept him being angry with Scott because of this, but the other things he said were completely out of character.

this might not be a sudden change though...he could have had this planned from the moment Cyclops killed Xavier...and helping him bust out of prison and joining him might just have been to cement that trust that Cyclops has in him...maybe Magneto wants a worse punishment than to have him just sitting in prison

I still think that this is very bad writing.

@Avenger85 said:

@Veitha: TBH, Hope Summers had the Phoenix Force, but it was Scott who fought off the Avengers and actually put the phoenix force to use for the mission it intended to carry out. He is more of the mutant messiah than Hope ever was.

"Cyclops Was Right." LOLOLOLOL

Yeah, I think it so. But Magnus doesn't, and that's the strangest thing.

#20 Posted by judasnixon (6182 posts) - - Show Bio

I know I've said this before, but Chris Bachalo's art doesn't fit the tone of this book. No disrespect to Bachalo he is a fine artist. I just would like to see someone else draw this book.....

#21 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio
"I gotto disagree with you on that one, man. No other person could have done what Cyke did. It's not just about doing what's needed, it's making the hard, almost impossible decisions that others will hate you for but still going ahead with it, because you feel it's the right thing to do."

Wanna bet? It wasn't necessarily because it was 'the right thing' it was also a matter of survival. Magneto could have made the decisions, for example--and let's be honest, Scott these days is an amalgam of Erik and Charles. Nate Grey could have done it as well--hell, he sacrificed himself back in the day to bring assistance to the mutant race. Joseph could have even done it (the first version of the clone). The list does continue.

I kind of feel bad, because I think you're looking at this with blinders on.
#22 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkxSeraph said:

In the 80s and 90s Scott played some roles, sure.. but he was ultimately replaceable by someone else entirely. He wasn't integral. The books will not fall apart without him.

While I agree with much of what you said, I must absolutely contest this. Cyclops journey in the 80's AWESOME. He went from being top dog in 60's and 70's then spiraling downward and losing everything including leadership to Storm. That was an incredible journey back to glory. He was integral to X-Factor by being the one to take responsibility to keep everyone alive, much like what he's doing now only without the racial overtones. The best fight Scott Summers ever fought was the war with himself and the efforts in X-Factor. Even from a sales point of view X-Factor was a top 5 book then as well, as was Uncanny. Scott, then, was the linchpin of X-Factor and thus by proxy responsible for the success of the book and the early nineties X-men explosion in success and its popularity as a whole. The rest of your statement, true. Cyclops in 80's and early 90's...not so much.

#23 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

It's a set up.

#24 Posted by Xorion (439 posts) - - Show Bio

yo've dissappointed me Magnus. I think it could be (please be) a con of cyclops but it's not so out of character for magneto to act different when something happens to his powers. Also I've got a theory on power affection phoenix. More like an observation actually. See whose powers are affected badly? Emma, Piotr and Cyclops. Whose powers are not affected or improved? Namor and Magik. See the algorithm there? no, eh? So it seems like only people who feels responsible and regrets what they did with phoenix has lost their control over their power. Who doesn't feel regret about them hasn't affected or get power improvement. So that's what I think

#25 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, Magneto went to Shield because Scott wanted him too. I'm betting this is all part of Scott's plan.

#26 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio
Cyclops journey in the 80's AWESOME. He went from being top dog in 60's and 70's then spiraling downward and losing everything including leadership to Storm.

Meh. I honestly hated... HATED Cyclops until one issue after the fall of Avalon--where he helped the Acolytes get to the old Outback base. Then, after that? Hated him again. Just... such a bland, cardboard character to me.

Between this new take and some reading suggestions by a friend (who likes her own 'Cyclops was Right' t-shirt), I actually like the character now.

In the 80s,I was reading for Wolverine. I was a kid. Quite young, actually, but my first Wolverine book was while he was in maripoor and loved him. Then, there came the crucified Logan at the hands of the Reavers and the siege perilous stuff before X-Tinction Agenda.

I always saw Cyke as 'that guy.' The boyscout. The popular kid. The 'I'm the leader and always right' guy. I hated it. It was so stereotypical.

X-Factor, I read a few issues of, but it never caught me.

Maybe I missed the better stories, but really... meh.
#27 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkxSeraph said:

Actually, the responsibility of all of Mutantdom does rest on his shoulders. He actually is giving all the mutants a fighting chance now. He did save all of mutantkind. People are now supporting him and wearing their "Cyclops were right" shirts for a reason.

Oh, dear god. Yes... okay... so, let's scrap all the X-Men books not starring Scott, then, shall we? He's all they need.

The sheer truth of the matter that so many Die-hard Scott fans refuse to admit is that he's a figure head and a central character, yes... but he's only one of many in the mutant/human conflict. He just took a really hard line.

Scott decided to go straight offensive and defensive, while Logan and the JGSHL is going the old Xavier route... but if anyone thinks those kids will die or be lost without a Scott Summers out there doing what he is doing now, they are horribly deluded. In the 80s and 90s Scott played some roles, sure.. but he was ultimately replaceable by someone else entirely. He wasn't integral. The books will not fall apart without him. He could die right now and it would be a ripple. No end of mutantdom. No fall of the mutants. Same with Wolverine. Or Magneto... etc, etc. Scott's roll in AvX was ultimately one of someone who did what was needed. Several other characters could have fit that mold if Cyke was not available, for instance.

You're terribly mistaken Scott is the true face of the Xmen the onje true leader there are no substitutes, no stand ends . There is not one single mutant out ther that could rally the majority of mutants under one cause, none. Scott is the heart and Soul of the Xmen, I don't know what you've been reading in the 80's and 90's but you've got it wrong. In time and remember I told you this personally, that the majority of the Xmen nwill once again fall in place under his leadership in time. Scott Summers is the Captain America of the Xmen, and even Cap fell from grace a few times. Like Cap inspires the Avengers,Scott inspires the Xmen like no other, remember that!

#28 Posted by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkxSeraph: To each his own. To you he was a bland, cardboard character. To me, he was awesome. I like the stereotypical boy-scout scott.

#29 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

Baldeto

#30 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio
To each his own. To you he was a bland, cardboard character. To me, he was awesome. I like the stereotypical boy-scout scott.

I prefer believable characters.

You're terribly mistaken Scott is the true face of the Xmen the onje true leader there are no substitutes, no stand ends

The fanboy is strong with this one.

It's kind of sad, really... but then, I can't really expect anything less around the site. FAnboy/Fangirl-itus is pretty strong around these parts.

I look at books and characters objectively and appreciate growth and dynamism. Hell, one of my favorite characters is Hellion--until they f'ed him up with horrible and completely out of left field characterizations. I strongly dislike boyscout characters. Why? They don't evolve and they aren't realistic. Scot's reactions now? Realistic. It's clear that the loss and tragedy and just sheer trauma he has been through is finally having an effect--and that mental/moral crisis is utterly incredible and I can't say how much I love it. For a character's growth and evolution--it is incredible.

There is a reason why Scott is so popular now. People are clamoring to 'fix' him... but ignore the fact that this evolution of his character (finally, some natural evolution of his character) has brought him into the spotlight and made him popular--moreso than ever. Why? Because it's believable. We want to see what happens to him or what he does.

When Scott almost died in Operation: Zero Tolerance, it was scarce blip. If that happened now? Wow.
#31 Edited by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74: Yes exactly. You summed it up there. Cyclops is the Captain America of the X-Men. What these guys don't get at all is that you REQUIRE a Boy-Scout, or "that guy" to lead a team like the X-Men. Sometimes you need to be the hard-headed guy in order to lead a team as diverse as the X-Men. That guy did, what ? Shoot lasers out of his eyes ? But he still commanded the respect & support of almost all the mutants. Scott will be remembered for being the one true leader of the X-Men first, shooting lasers out of his eyes second. That guy really is the heart & soul of the X-men. Just like Captain America is to the Avengers.

I think the O5 Scott Summers will be the guy to close the gap between modern "edgy" Cyclops & old boyscout Cyclops, while still retaining enough of his old self. The current Scott has some issues, but he also has the sheer willpower & determination to redeem himself, once he learns that it is required, which the O5 will help him realize.

#32 Posted by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

TBH when I first saw the guy sitting in the room at SHIELD, I thought it was Xavier, who somehow came back from the dead ( via the Phoenix Force) or faked his death, just to troll all of us lol.

#33 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenger85 said:

@evilvegeta74: Yes exactly. You summed it up there. Cyclops is the Captain America of the X-Men. What these guys don't get at all is that you REQUIRE a Boy-Scout, or "that guy" to lead a team like the X-Men. Scott will be remembered for being the one true leader of the X-Men first, shooting lasers out of his eyes second. That guy really is the heart & soul of the X-men. Just like Captain America is to the Avengers.

I think the O5 Scott Summers will be the guy to close the gap between modern "edgy" Cyclops & old boyscout Cyclops, while still retaining enough of his old self. The current Scott has some issues, but he also has the sheer willpower & determination to redeem himself, once he learns that it is required, which the O5 will help him realize.

I agree sir

#34 Edited by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio
"Cyclops is the Captain America of the X-Men. What these guys don't get at all is that you REQUIRE a Boy-Scout, or "that guy" to lead a team like the X-Men."

No. You don't. This is actually a nearly laughable idea--that a boyscout is required as a leader.

The reality of the situation, if you aren't aware, for boyscout characters: They are never so popular as when something utterly TERRIBLE happens to them, or they are gone.

Superman: decreased popularity until? Until he died. Resurgence there after.

Captain America: Decreased popularity until? Until he 'died' and Bucky took over as Cap. His book actually started selling very well at that point. (and yes, I did prefer Bucky as Captain America--his was an awesome story: a flawed individual trying to fill Rogers' shoes, but knowing that he's no where near the same man as he was).

Numerous teams have thrived without 'boyscout' leaders. They're just the usual default because people tend to make the moral center of the team the leader. Which is not always necessary. Who's the boyscout in JL Dark? In Uncanny X-Men (because it sure as HELL isn't Scott)? In X-Force? In the adjectiveless X-Men (it isn't Storm... she's not a boyscout)?

The list goes on and on... but it's convenient, so utterly convenient to say that a team needs one. What a team needs is a moral center and a confident leader. They are not always the same person, and they are not always a boyscout.

Again, it is a blinder you have on if you think otherwise.

Edit: Another team that pops up: The New X-Men-- Leader: Surge. Kind of a b*tch. Moral Center: Sooraya (also not a girlscout--killed numerous people). Or, Hellion Squad. Leader: Hellion (arrogant jerkface). Moral Center: Cess and Sooraya.
#35 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio

I also suppose Avenger, that you absolutely abhorred the X-Force run with Wolverine, Archangel, X-23, Wolfsbane, etc. There sure as hell were no boyscouts on that team... and the book sold like gangbusters.

#36 Posted by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkxSeraph: No not really, X-Force is supposed to be that kind of team. When Cable was leading it there weren't any boyscouts either ( maybe cannonball).

Anyways, this is a point on which I am gonna always disagree with you on. You may call it fanboyism, blinders, not realistic etc. I just call it a different opinion.

#37 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkxSeraph: (Ya kinda have to click the reply button, lol)...

For the record Cyclops in the late 90's was indeed becoming cardboard like in nature (which I will give you) but I find even that better (or perhaps preferable is a better word) than what happened later in the post X-Men 113 + Uncanny series. Actually I know two people are "boy scouts" like in nature and even more "girl scouts". So empirically they are more human than a semi-racist paramilitary commander, so for me that is really unrealistic. Same goes for Frost, I knew one person like her but honestly the real person was lady of ill-repute who had substance abuse problems, thus further away from my reality. I could go on for a while, but I think you get the picture. X-Men is supposed to be a moral tale of finding one's place in social equality on some level or the other and not just be "that book about genetic racism". Thus you kinda need some stable elements to really put a shine (or even a contrast) on the characters and events that are the "moving parts" of the books.

Actually for the record I enjoyed Uncanny X-Force...Archangel's metal wings 4 life, playa. (well except that Domino x Logan thing that was kinda gross)

#38 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio

Chasereis: just FYI: I can't @reply at work. I am running on an old version of IE that does not support the text editor or interface. I have to actually manually code line breaks and bolds, italics, etc in html to get them to go through.

I know how the reply feature works, though. thanks.

#39 Posted by CTG (228 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyhoo...

So Cyclops' optic blasts are now omni-directional! That blast just wrecked everything!

#40 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio
"X-Men is supposed to be a moral tale of finding one's place in social equality on some level or the other and not just be "that book about genetic racism". Thus you kinda need some stable elements to really put a shine (or even a contrast) on the characters and events that are the "moving parts" of the books."

And I'm all for that--If they kept it realistic and believable. But... they didn't. They wanted the book about finding a place in society and belonging? Sure... then they murder mutants and important characters by the score. Just droves of them, dead. Buses of children at the school--blown up and murdered.

This stopped being about finding a place and belonging a loooooooong time ago.

X-Tinction Agenda, Executioner's Song, etc... stories of these types changed the tone to persecution, being a fugitive, to being in a state of pre-extinction. Then, the Operation: Zero Tolerance. Decimation, etc.

And, yes, you do need a light aspect to prevent all of that from slipping into just melodrama and depression. When wolvie was crucified, it was Jubilation Lee. Before that, it was Kitty. Then it was the New X-Men and Academy.

They always keep hope in some aspect. The youth have always been the real light of the books. When Storm was leader, it wasn't all screwed. When they had two teams, her team wasn't some depressing bunch. They still worked as X-men, and did it well, proving that a Boyscout wasn't needed.

I said previous that a team book needed a confident leader and a moral center. This is true. A moral center, however, doesn't need to be a classical boyscout.
#41 Posted by Veitha (2895 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

Yeah, Magneto went to Shield because Scott wanted him too. I'm betting this is all part of Scott's plan.

Well, maybe you're right. Scott may be doing the same thing he was doing with Norman Osborn, making one of his teammates infiltrate amongst his enemies...

#42 Posted by chasereis (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkxSeraph: First. I had no way of knowing that and I tried to make it sound humorous (thus not insulting) to you. Sorry that did not convey but please accept that fact and please don't feel the need to retort to an innocent comment, please.

Again, X-Men is "supposed" to be a morality tale. I wouldn't argue that they have strayed from the formula far too much. However at that point they stopped being X-Men and were just Homo-Superior paramilitary. That is what they are, Scott has been retrofitted to be play this role of General. First comparing Storm to Cyclops is by and large pointless. Ororo's leadership and Scott's abilities are well documented. However Ororo "strays" from time to time from the Xavier principles when she deems it necessary, where as Scott did not in even in X-Factor. You need both to justify the other, to make the other more interesting to read. Look back on UXM 201, a powerless Storm beats a broken Cyclops by his own rules. The moral core actually still wins in the fight because Scott (the real one) didn't want to hurt Ororo and he accepted his defeat. The modern Cyclops would have turned her to goo on the wall and then left laughing. Further Storm's books in Uncanny was FAR darker than X-Factor ever was, then to your point they switched a bit going to Uncanny 281-up/X-Men 1-up.

The point is Cyclops is meant to be boy scout, let some other character be the paramilitary leader like his son, Cable, who was actually MEANT to fill that role. Anyway the best part of it is you can have both boy scout and be interesting, it happened before and can happen again in the right hands. Same goes for the moral tale.

#43 Edited by Avenger85 (1602 posts) - - Show Bio

@chasereis: I think your last 4 sentences is exactly how Marvel is gonna make it. The O5 will play a MAJOR factor hin getting current Cyke back on track, before they inevitably go back to their own timeline. There are already 2 X-Men teams ( not counting the 2 X-Force teams), so their exit from the 616 universe is definitely gonna happen.

I am sure that young Scott & Jean will have a heart-to-heart conversation with Current Cyke, that will surely put him back on the path to redemption.

Le's face it : Pete Parker, Captain America & Scott Summers were meant to be boyscouts. Marvel is just putting Scott back in his place. I just hope young Scott puts both versions of Beast back in their place with a few optic blasts though lol.

#44 Posted by DarkxSeraph (672 posts) - - Show Bio
First. I had no way of knowing that and I tried to make it sound humorous (thus not insulting) to you. Sorry that did not convey but please accept that fact and please don't feel the need to retort to an innocent comment, please.

Wasn't tryin' to. I've brought this up on several threads, guess I didn't on this one. No worries.

The point is Cyclops is meant to be boy scout, let some other character be the paramilitary leader like his son, Cable, who was actually MEANT to fill that role. Anyway the best part of it is you can have both boy scout and be interesting, it happened before and can happen again in the right hands. Same goes for the moral tale.

I disagree here... this was the natural course for a person put under the stresses he has. If Cyclops remained a boyscout, it would be not only a disservice to his character, but utterly and completely unrealistic. I don't care for the argument that I know some people would toss up about realism and comic books. Realism in powers and other super science, etc, is one thing--that is tossed out the window regularly. But, when a character's development (or lack thereof) is completely unrealistic? Then the book has no anchor and is just about pointless to read.

I really don't think Scott is interesting at all as a boyscout. I would actually drop any book he is in if they take him back there. The guy has watched his Wife die more than once, lost his son byhaving to send him into the future the first time, confronted a psychotic clone of his son, lost his son again, lost best friends (and not in some car accident way, but in flat out: oh, crap, they were murdered horrifically), been tortured, been mind controlled, found out the person he looked up to as a father regularly mind-wiped him--going so far as to conceal a brother from him, watched his students get literally blown up, got corrupted by the phoenix force, murdered his mentor under said corruption, lost his girlfriend (whom he loved) because of said corruption, found out his father died in space, met kids of his from alternate realities, etc, etc...

No one can realistically, in any sense of the word, remain a boyscout through all of that. No one.
#45 Posted by gridde (91 posts) - - Show Bio

What's sad is that maybe two years ago, I would have immediately suspected (along with a lot of people here) that Magneto is a double-agent for Scott, and we'd eventually see Scott's plan come together as he moves towards redemption.

Now, however, I'm well aware that Marvel writers regularly disregard prior canon and characterisation for the hell of it, and so it's a very real possibility that Magneto really is the traitor, and that Scott really does have no disregard for the lives of those around him. It's the first outright villainous thing he's done (using his optic blasts all around him with no control when there were many bystanders), and so maybe the writers have clocked on that even thought the X-Men and Avengers label Scott a villain, most of the readers do not, and thus they need to portray him being more evil.

Or maybe the Magneto at Shield is Mystique.

#46 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon said:

The one thing that bugs me is why is Magneto's powers all wonky? He was never a part of the Phoenix Five disco dance team? I don't know if they explained it and I just missed it or what.

Agreed. I found the "I dunno, Phoenix Force is weird" explanation totally not compelling.

#47 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't really care so much if Magneto actually betrayed Scott and the others, but the reasoning for betrayal he gives to Shield just seems too damn shoddy. Second to that, it's completely contradictory to how he's acted since AvX, including in ANXM, also penned by Bendis.

#48 Posted by havoc1201 (490 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto is playing a double agent this is a rouse

#49 Posted by GonnaRain (752 posts) - - Show Bio

First, I loved the Issue. Loved the art, and pretty much everything, and can't wait to see more of Eva and Christopher already, what little it was shown of them, I liked.

BUT, I don't buy Magneto betraying Cyclops. Like some people already said, I can understand him being mad at Scott, after all he killed his best friend and messed up his powers, but I don't believe Mags turning his back on them just like that, specially betraying them, selling them out to the Avengers. Cyclops is doing what is right, he is doing what the Staff at the Jean Grey School should be doing, recruiting Mutants, rescuing them.

So yeah, for me it's actually all part of Scott's plan.

#50 Posted by slimlim (262 posts) - - Show Bio

whether its a ruse or not, i just hope its not Marvel's way of backsliding Magneto into becoming a super villain again...

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