Charles and 'Clops tension?

#1 Posted by tylertothemax (89 posts) - - Show Bio

Whats the deal? What did i miss between House of M and Messiah CompleX

all they do is argue in Messiah CompleX. Fill me in?

#2 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops went all 'old school Magneto', but he doesn't have the dignity, age, or respect to pull it off with the same aplomb that Magneto did. So Prof X is having NONE OF IT. Hence their disagreements.

#3 Posted by BlackArmor (6137 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

Cyclops went all 'old school Magneto', but he doesn't have the dignity, age, or respect to pull it off with the same aplomb that Magneto did. So Prof X is having NONE OF IT. Hence their disagreements.

How exactly has Cyclops gone old school Magneto the first terrorist activity The X-men did under Cyke's command was Namor flooding Wakanda and he did that on his own

#4 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: Not so much in action as in doctrine, all 'Humans will never accept us, we must fight or we will go extinct', etc, etc. While he has a point (Magneto always did), he just doesn't have the same gravitas that Magneto had.

#5 Posted by Aiden Cross (15562 posts) - - Show Bio

And he wont play chess with charles.

#6 Posted by BlackArmor (6137 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith: I agree about the gravitas, but a major difference between Cyclops and Magneto's positions is that it's never been said that Cyke thinks Mutants are better than humans or that they should rule (well he didn't think the ruling thing until AVX and that's more about the cosmic awareness of the phoenix than mutant superiority) He simply went to extreme to insure mutant survival which has at points been morally grey or even on the evil side of things but it can't really be compared to Magneto's terrorism out of hatred. Prof X even has been shown to agree with him about survival at points

#7 Posted by JonSmith (3996 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: True, but the OP asked 'Why are these two guys at each others throats lately?' Answer: Cyclops is acting kind of like Magneto, but Charles doesn't have the mutual respect for Scott that he had for Magneto, so he's less subtle about his disagreement.

#8 Edited by BlackArmor (6137 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

@BlackArmor: True, but the OP asked 'Why are these two guys at each others throats lately?' Answer: Cyclops is acting kind of like Magneto, but Charles doesn't have the mutual respect for Scott that he had for Magneto, so he's less subtle about his disagreement.

I guess that's true at least since AVX but I think the fact that Prof hat he still sees Cyke as being something of a son as late as Schism I think that another reason he's coming down on Cyke so fast is that he feels somehow responsible for his actions, I haven't read the AVX#9 but I've he says as much in the issue.

On a somewhat separate issue at this point going back to Messiah Complex it seemed like Prof was just unaccustomed to not being in charge vs. having real issues with Scott's leadership or decisions

#9 Posted by Madame_Mist (1325 posts) - - Show Bio

Look I like Cyke, but one thing that sets him that sets him apart from Charles is treating X-Men like soldiers, and he has this my-way-or-the-highway routine that he used to basically "overthrow" Xavier. Also it's no good trying to save a species when you treat them like cannon fodder. He's alienated all his friends (does he have any?) and the X-Men have been so impersonal over the last few years I can't tell who is friends with who. He literally had to beg the big guns like Storm and even Emma to stay with him during Schism.

While Xavier was in charge, you could tell the X-Men were a family. They protected each other like nobody's business. Xavier lied to the X-Men on occasions but the result was usually saving the earth or whatnot, but not always the case again. And Xavier made sure the X-Men stuck together even the most harshest of times.

Cyclops and Magneto are alike in that they share the same motives for the betterment of Mutantkind but they have different ways of doing so.

But Xavier just doesn't like want Scott has done to the X-Men. I think it was Storm who commented once that she no longer knew what they were fighting for.

#10 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aiden Cross said:

And he wont play chess with charles.
#11 Posted by SC (12966 posts) - - Show Bio

Some writers thought that Xavier having a secret love crush on Jean Grey, and having a school for teens with powers and training them each day and forcing them to compete with each other for merit points, faking his own death to motivate his students wasn't edgy enough so they decided to modernize him by having him mind wiping Cyclops of the fact his brother (his other brother thats not Havok) was also a X-Man, and an X-Man that died when the 05 failed and got caught by Krakoa, and a X-Men squad made out of minorities was sent in to save them (not not those All New, All Different Minorities) but Sway, Petra and Darwin (the actual first African American X-Men take that Storm) Oh oh and also sending that team to their death as well. Oh plus X-Force? No Xavier actually already formed his own Black Ops team to keep mutant interests safe before Cyclops and Wolverines team. Then again Xavier's team also knew how to practice discretion and not have X-Men logos plastered all over their uniforms. So Xavier was made out to be this dude keeping secrets and mind wiping people, and killing kids, and probably installing spy cameras in various X-Characters bedrooms. Cyclops throws a tanty thats probably not unjustified, but X-Editors at the time decided to ditch the whole X-Men creative approach of promoting character diversity and originality and just copy all other comics practice of appealing to white male teens/young by writing and focusing on a white male young adult/adult they could live vicariously through so now Cyclops ain't go take none of Xavier's crap no more. He be banging them White Queens and being the Best Leader Eva and Savior of the Mutant Race! Can't have Slim bowing to Xavier no more, you need drama and edge and tension cause Scotty 2 Hottie is the real deal now, and takes the best of Magneto's philosophy and Xavier's philosophy cause thats easy really. Thats why they argue so much. Cyclops, to be the man, you gotta be the man, so he has to beat Xavier, metaphorically. Physically as well possibly. Xavier is just a jerk but because he is bald no one really likes to talk about it.       

Moderator
#12 Posted by slimlim (264 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto = Black

Prof X = White

Cyclops = Grey

Magneto believed that Mutants should rule

Xavier believed in friendly co-existance

Cyclops has come to believe that humans and mutants cannot co-exist in modern society and prefers segregation, and in doing so he's done what neither Magneto nor Xavier did, and that was to unite "Mutanity"... at least until recent events.

As for what you missed , you should read DEADLY GENESIS as well as Joss Whedon's ASTONISHING X-MEN story arc "DANGER"

#13 Posted by Osian2 (455 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

Some writers thought that Xavier having a secret love crush on Jean Grey, and having a school for teens with powers and training them each day and forcing them to compete with each other for merit points, faking his own death to motivate his students wasn't edgy enough so they decided to modernize him by having him mind wiping Cyclops of the fact his brother (his other brother thats not Havok) was also a X-Man, and an X-Man that died when the 05 failed and got caught by Krakoa, and a X-Men squad made out of minorities was sent in to save them (not not those All New, All Different Minorities) but Sway, Petra and Darwin (the actual first African American X-Men take that Storm) Oh oh and also sending that team to their death as well. Oh plus X-Force? No Xavier actually already formed his own Black Ops team to keep mutant interests safe before Cyclops and Wolverines team. Then again Xavier's team also knew how to practice discretion and not have X-Men logos plastered all over their uniforms. So Xavier was made out to be this dude keeping secrets and mind wiping people, and killing kids, and probably installing spy cameras in various X-Characters bedrooms. Cyclops throws a tanty thats probably not unjustified, but X-Editors at the time decided to ditch the whole X-Men creative approach of promoting character diversity and originality and just copy all other comics practice of appealing to white male teens/young by writing and focusing on a white male young adult/adult they could live vicariously through so now Cyclops ain't go take none of Xavier's crap no more. He be banging them White Queens and being the Best Leader Eva and Savior of the Mutant Race! Can't have Slim bowing to Xavier no more, you need drama and edge and tension cause Scotty 2 Hottie is the real deal now, and takes the best of Magneto's philosophy and Xavier's philosophy cause thats easy really. Thats why they argue so much. Cyclops, to be the man, you gotta be the man, so he has to beat Xavier, metaphorically. Physically as well possibly. Xavier is just a jerk but because he is bald no one really likes to talk about it.

LOL this is brilliant.

#14 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

Moderator
#15 Posted by papad1992 (6829 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

Some writers thought that Xavier having a secret love crush on Jean Grey, and having a school for teens with powers and training them each day and forcing them to compete with each other for merit points, faking his own death to motivate his students wasn't edgy enough so they decided to modernize him by having him mind wiping Cyclops of the fact his brother (his other brother thats not Havok) was also a X-Man, and an X-Man that died when the 05 failed and got caught by Krakoa, and a X-Men squad made out of minorities was sent in to save them (not not those All New, All Different Minorities) but Sway, Petra and Darwin (the actual first African American X-Men take that Storm) Oh oh and also sending that team to their death as well. Oh plus X-Force? No Xavier actually already formed his own Black Ops team to keep mutant interests safe before Cyclops and Wolverines team. Then again Xavier's team also knew how to practice discretion and not have X-Men logos plastered all over their uniforms. So Xavier was made out to be this dude keeping secrets and mind wiping people, and killing kids, and probably installing spy cameras in various X-Characters bedrooms. Cyclops throws a tanty thats probably not unjustified, but X-Editors at the time decided to ditch the whole X-Men creative approach of promoting character diversity and originality and just copy all other comics practice of appealing to white male teens/young by writing and focusing on a white male young adult/adult they could live vicariously through so now Cyclops ain't go take none of Xavier's crap no more. He be banging them White Queens and being the Best Leader Eva and Savior of the Mutant Race! Can't have Slim bowing to Xavier no more, you need drama and edge and tension cause Scotty 2 Hottie is the real deal now, and takes the best of Magneto's philosophy and Xavier's philosophy cause thats easy really. Thats why they argue so much. Cyclops, to be the man, you gotta be the man, so he has to beat Xavier, metaphorically. Physically as well possibly. Xavier is just a jerk but because he is bald no one really likes to talk about it.

This is so beautifully written I think u should print it and frame it!

#16 Posted by allthatsgeek (127 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

I love this.

#17 Posted by tylertothemax (89 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimlim: haha thank you. although EVERYONE did have insightful comments and ideas, i really just wanted to know which comic i missed out on.

House of M they were buddies, now Messiah CompleX they aren't. Deadly Genesis here i come

#18 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

Where the fack has this been hiding ? No, really ?

#19 Posted by tylertothemax (89 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC: haha wow this is great. Although my X-Men knowledge is limited i still get the gist. i need to catch up on some of the important stuff. Im more of a New Avengers/DC guy.

Im currently making the switch from DC to Marvel so im playing a lot of catch up with X-Men.

#20 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it has more to do with the retcon where it turned out that Prof. X had erased Cyke's brother from people's memory and was said to be screwing with people's minds to suit his own ends ( Despite Prof. X being the most ethical telepath in Marvel for around 40 years prior)

#21 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

cyclops is half magneto and half Xavier.

#22 Posted by SC (12966 posts) - - Show Bio
@tylertothemax said:

@SC: haha wow this is great. Although my X-Men knowledge is limited i still get the gist. i need to catch up on some of the important stuff. Im more of a New Avengers/DC guy.

Im currently making the switch from DC to Marvel so im playing a lot of catch up with X-Men.

 
Oh cool! I comics are sort of my vice so I am stuck with both Marvel and DC. Make sure to ask at CV if you have any more X-men questions, people here are good at answering fast. Even though most posters hate Bendis around the site, if you like his writing in New Avengers he will be writing an X-Men series soon. So that might help you catch up beyond the above suggested material. If you like consistency and steady story telling I also recommend X-Factor by Peter David. You don't get any of the big name mutant characters but its really good story telling. Take care! 
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#23 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700 said:

cyclops is half magneto and half Xavier.

So he turned into mid 90s era Cable?

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