Brian Wood off X-men.

#1 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

"I just read this Newsarama blog post that had some errors in it and suggested a couple things that aren’t true. I also get a lot of questions about my run on X-Men, so to clear up: I was, way back, asked to write 8 issues of X-Men, and I have, concluding with #37. My name appeared in the solicitation for #38, but that was a typo. I have not written #38, as that blog post suggests. Seth Peth and (the amazing) Paul Azaceta are taking over the title. So it’s all according to plan, I wasn’t taken off the book or anything weird like that. I’m sure it won’t be the last 616 X-Men I write. It also won’t be the last time I work with David Lopez."

#2 Posted by Osian2 (455 posts) - - Show Bio

This will upset a lot of fans (Storm ones especially) :(

#3 Posted by Baddamdog (2223 posts) - - Show Bio

Really terrible news. Seth Peck is a relative newbie and I have no idea how he writes. I hope he continues with the themes that are currently recurring in the title now. And I especially hope he keeps Storm and Psylocke on the team.

*Sigh* well at least we have the remaining issues to enjoy.

#4 Posted by jhazzroucher (15531 posts) - - Show Bio

not good news at all. : (

#5 Posted by Billy Batson (57916 posts) - - Show Bio

Uh-oh spaghetti-o's.
BB

#6 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm actually depressed right now.

#7 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously, with Wood, this turned out to be one of the BEST X-Titles on the stands--i just--i cannot.

#8 Posted by stambo42 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

Really? I found the series kind of boring and directionless...

#9 Posted by jubilee042 (1353 posts) - - Show Bio

This is really sad news.

#10 Posted by Lord Shiva (794 posts) - - Show Bio

I like him cause he had good characterization.....so that part I will miss.

#11 Posted by Twentyfive (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

That's just bad. I also thought this book was going to be cancelled to make way for some NOW titles. This is still pretty bad news. He should continue to write Ultimate, though. I like how he writes Kitty so far.

#12 Posted by Genki_Sudo (55 posts) - - Show Bio

I at first had a comment about karma( since some fans loved to use Wood's run as a crutch to show how "awesome" she is away from T'Challa ) but naw it's whatevs now

#13 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@Genki_Sudo said:

I at first had a comment about karma( since some fans loved to use Wood's run as a crutch to show how "awesome" she is away from T'Challa ) but naw it's whatevs now

I've only heard sounds of rejoice that are due to her being written like she used to be........If any writer takes notes from how she was portrayed in "X-Men", then there should be no issue with "karma".

#14 Posted by Genki_Sudo (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@White Mage said:

I've only heard sounds of rejoice that are due to her being written like she used to be........If any writer takes notes from how she was portrayed in "X-Men", then there should be no issue with "karma".

Uncanny says hello and given how useful she was in Avengers under Benids is any indication then hold onto your hopes and beliefs because you need them now more then ever because wallpaper is looking to be what the future holds for her but hey.......I hope for you you're right

#15 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@Genki_Sudo said:

@White Mage said:

I've only heard sounds of rejoice that are due to her being written like she used to be........If any writer takes notes from how she was portrayed in "X-Men", then there should be no issue with "karma".

Uncanny says hello and given how useful she was in Avengers under Benids is any indication then hold onto your hopes and beliefs because you need them now more then ever because wallpaper is looking to be what the future holds for her but hey.......I hope for you you're right

A SOLID character being written in a way that is 2 steps below "lackluster" by writers who should know better doesn't exactly help your statement though. Storm was written the way she SHOULD HAVE been written under Brian Wood's pen. Just about everyone who has seen her portrayal/development under Claremont agrees with this. And, again, I've only heard people celebrating over a writer actually doing his research. I don't really see how you could be prepared to make a statement that it's karma against Storm fans, when Storm's many years of history support the idea that she is a badass in her own right, with T'challa being a bonus.

It would take EFFORT for someone to come in and just f*ck up her portrayal after Brian leaves. So my hopes and expectations aren't exactly unrealistic. It's her ensemble book anyway.

#16 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Idk, if it's her's anymore. Seems they are switching to Domino with the writer change. Bendis has Storm to work his magic.

#17 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

good. his stories were crappy anyway. storm fans keep the f way. im not in the mood for your bs

#18 Posted by jhazzroucher (15531 posts) - - Show Bio

@Genki_Sudo said:

I at first had a comment about karma( since some fans loved to use Wood's run as a crutch to show how "awesome" she is away from T'Challa ) but naw it's whatevs now

so you're also here. . it's me RLAAMJR. : )

#19 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

good. his stories were crappy anyway. storm fans keep the f way. im not in the mood for your bs

Coming from a fan of the Bendis'vengers, that's extremely ironic.

@Umbraa said:

Idk, if it's her's anymore. Seems they are switching to Domino with the writer change. Bendis has Storm to work his magic.

For two issues, Umbra. Seth Peck is only staying for two issues.

#20 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane: who said i was a fan of bendis avengers? old new avengers volume sure, new stuff no. but this has no consequence on the topic. woods stories still suck regardless of my other preffereces.

#21 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@AgeofHurricane: who said i was a fan of bendis avengers? old new avengers volume sure, new stuff no. but this has no consequence on the topic. woods stories still suck regardless of my other preffereces.

Well, they were leagues better than Gischler's, imo.

And that's an understatement.

#22 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane: Gischler's curse of the mutants was better than anything wood has done with the series. you're glorifying wood because he put center stage storm. not because the stories were good.

#23 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@AgeofHurricane: Gischler's curse of the mutants was better than anything wood has done with the series. you're glorifying wood because he put center stage storm. not because the stories were good.

Aaaaaaand you've gone there, not to detract from what i'm endeavouring to make--a logical discussion--but, what is it with your vendetta against Storm and her fans ? Gischler did the exact same thing when Regenesis kicked in and even before that, but you can clearly see the deference i'm trying to make, instead, you're letting this grudge cloud your judgment.

Also, no. Curse Of The Mutants wasn't even close to the glorious things that Wood's done with his time, unless you're Tom Brevoort in disguise, who only cares about the "story" more so than you do the character development that gets put into it as well as the characters featured in it.

#24 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane: my judgement isnt clouded by anything. your judgement is clouded. stop pretending. at least be honest about it. you liked his because of storm having the center role. the stories are ok at best. im not one to ignore the giant elephant in the room just to be polite. be honest. i have no vendetta against storm. shes not on my 'meh' character list i admit. but that does not mean i have it in for her. she has been written very badly in the last 5 years. and any fan of hers quickly jumps on the 'hes a hatter' train when somebody points it out. if you have love for the character accept the bad with the good, no matter how much it outweights the good.

#25 Posted by jhazzroucher (15531 posts) - - Show Bio

The story is good because the characters are written well, most of the time.

#26 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyWalker said:

@AgeofHurricane: my judgement isnt clouded by anything. your judgement is clouded. stop pretending. at least be honest about it. you liked his because of storm having the center role. the stories are ok at best. im not one to ignore the giant elephant in the room just to be polite. be honest. i have no vendetta against storm. shes not on my 'meh' character list i admit. but that does not mean i have it in for her. she has been written very badly in the last 5 years. and any fan of hers quickly jumps on the 'hes a hatter' train when somebody points it out. if you have love for the character accept the bad with the good, no matter how much it outweights the good.

Um, yeah, okay, given the fact that you were actually there when i said this...i have already admitted that one of the many reasons as to why i love what Wood has done with the title is due to him writing the best Storm since Claremont, and there is absolutely nothing to hide there, please keep this in mind, you were there the first time i said this. LOL. So i'm not sure what you're getting so defensive and jumpy about. Fact of the matter is, you hate the character and the character's fans and now you're lying about it. Stay pressed, though.

"If you have love for the character accept the bad with the good, no matter how much it outweights the good."...What ?

#27 Posted by stambo42 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

Um, the guy has been on for all of five issues, how exactly are we crediting him with the best Storm since Claremont? Where is this great characterization? Domino feels like a nothing that can be pushed any direction regardless of whether it even serves the plot, Storm makes a big stink about going behind Cyclops's back without ever justifying why she feels she can't trust him (it would not be hard to do with a little effort, but did not happen, regardless) I get nothing from his Psylocke or Pixie.... I think Colossus might make it the best out of this in his questioning of Storm's lack of forthrightness with Cyclops... at least Wood remembered that loyalty and small town honesty is part of his character... though even he feels thinly written. With flat characters serving an unrealized plot, this feels like a writer who knows he signed up for a short tenure failing to apply himself to characters and plots he knows he won't have time to develop, or the power to change. I'm no fan boy, but I miss a relevant Storm. I certainly haven't found her here.

#28 Posted by Rickbarry (1761 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't say I'm the biggest Storm fan as I've created a thread dedicated to Storm getting punched in the face, lol. Although I can admit that the last few issues of X-men have definitely picked up since the whole vampire/sentinel/skrull arcs that preceeded Wood coming onto the team. Domino might be a little quiet in their issues, but I think Psylocke and Pixie fulfill their role quite well. The whole protomutant issue seems to be a plot device to further the Colossus/Storm split. Surely it can't only be Wolverine and Scott that disagree on mutant policies, eh? It works for me, but then again I am a rather huge Colossus fan. So I could be biased.

#29 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@stambo42 said:

Um, the guy has been on for all of five issues, how exactly are we crediting him with the best Storm since Claremont? Where is this great characterization? Domino feels like a nothing that can be pushed any direction regardless of whether it even serves the plot, Storm makes a big stink about going behind Cyclops's back without ever justifying why she feels she can't trust him (it would not be hard to do with a little effort, but did not happen, regardless) I get nothing from his Psylocke or Pixie.... I think Colossus might make it the best out of this in his questioning of Storm's lack of forthrightness with Cyclops... at least Wood remembered that loyalty and small town honesty is part of his character... though even he feels thinly written. With flat characters serving an unrealized plot, this feels like a writer who knows he signed up for a short tenure failing to apply himself to characters and plots he knows he won't have time to develop, or the power to change. I'm no fan boy, but I miss a relevant Storm. I certainly haven't found her here.

In terms of characterization, let's take look back at the people who have had the oppurtunity of handling the character since Claremont and even Brubaker's departure, last 5 years.

Hudlin - Didn't do much for the character after the marriage other than give other X-Writers at the time, the petty reason that they weren't allowed to use her because she was married. Completely ignored all prior development, and, her sole purpose was to be the BP's wife. That's it. He did have some impressive power showings, which writers after failed to demonstrate, but in the end, the character was not there, she just the Black Panther's black wife.

Fraction - Bringing in the horrible reign of X-Men mis-treatment for three years until Gillen came. Wrote the character as a preachy Goddess who served no purpose other than denouncing lesser beings for not following certain orders, or, for the most part, as wallpaper. There was that one scene with Emma but that's more or less, it. He found her more intriguing when she was placed somewhere in the background flinging useless lightning bolts.

Ellis - He's a fantastic writer and i'll give him credit where it's due, but i never found his portrayal as compelling as Wood's. He did though, pull the character from limbo and feature her in his run of Astonishing X-Men, where she was portrayed well...for the most part. I will forever be in his debt for that. I liked how he brought the Storm/Cyclops rivalry thing back, but it felt almost as if Storm had to take the back-seat in order to show readers that Cyclops was entering a new age of "I'm tired of this consant BS so nobody question my authority and actions or you're off the team". I'm taking this from that scene where she rejoined the team and Cyke basically shut her up because of her moralistic values, her priorities were for the life then that of the mission itself, which is understandable, but like i said, Cyke had to shut her up, compare that to the Storm we're getting now with Wood, who is actually willing to take the risks for as long as it benefits "The Cause". I'm not saying this "shut Storm up" thing is a taboo, but if you're going to reply to that, please do refer to Claremont's issues.

Yost - Wrote one of the best Storm stories--if not one of the best X-Stories--of that time. X-Men: Worlds Apart. Chracterization was on point as well as the power showings and character moments in-between, honestly, there is absolutely nothing i can nit-pick from his take, so he's not exactly a factor in this. Probably did have the best portrayal of the character since Claremont, along with Wood. But there were three other crooks who did, too.

Gischler - Good man. Good stories for the most part and wrote a good Storm. He even made it clear that he was a big fan of the character which is why he had her appear in Adjectiveless prior to #30 anytime he could. Realistically speaking, there was no character devlopment, Wood and Gischler wrote her in the same series, and it's more than clear who did more. Gischler wrote her as a leader, while Wood wrote her as much more than that.

Gillen - Had Storm retain a place amongst his Extinction Team, which was good for the character, she had a nice moment in the first issue of Uncanny Vol.2 and had some nice parts in Tabula Rasa, then that was it. His depiction of the character wasn't far off from Fraction's, in the preachy sense, there were no deferences except for analogies. It didn't exactly look as if he was all too invested in the character, as well. She was there because she was there. Didn't develop her and also had her shoot lightning when neccessary except for that one issue in the TR arc. That's it. And if you've seen Uncanny X-Men #17, you'll know what i'm talking about. He said her role on the team was to be the moral compass, he did not and i repeat: did not deliver on that. She was the preachy not-Goddess. Nothing more nothing less. Gillen, was far more invested in the villians that he was featuring more so than the characters he had play with, which is why his run, imo, will be extremely forgettable if character development's what you're looking for.

(not mentioning Bendis because that honestly serves no point to the debate.)

Wood - The man in question. Before we got a taste of what he had in store for the character, his words were "-Though i am interested in getting a good handle on Storm" and with #30, many of us could see why. There's nothing to ponder in why the Storm fans, you know, fans of the character who--not to sound pretentious or conceited--know the character in and out, were more than exultant to see that there actually was a writer in Marvel, who actually did their research, to actually write a character. From what's been written, his representation is almost, if not completely, identical to Claremont's. She's a leader, a tactician, an analyzer of situations with immense gravity, and, the actual moral compass, a concept which Gillen introduced but failed to deliver on. We have the woman who's not afraid to take risks and leave the bigger men out of the loop (analogous to Storm taking her own team of X-Men to create the X-Treme X-Men, unbeknownst to everyone but the members of her team, written by Claremont, by the way.), we have a writer, who can deliver in team conflicts without everything looking like it was forced, or, just no team conflicts at all and it's simply follow the Dictator (current Uncanny X-Men). We have a woman who does reconsider her actions in turn, second guessing herself (Mutant Massacre as well as X-Treme X-Men. Written by Claremont.) as well as a writer who induces slightly different take on characters, but in the long run, it, for the most part, fails to leave anything else to be desired.

Apoogies, but i'd much rather have this:

Over this:

Any day of the week, wouldn't you ? Feel free to call me a rabid fan, or a silly Storm fanboy or w.e, but i believe that's as narrow as it gets.

Yeah. Best Storm since Claremont. And if i may add, one of the best X-Titles on the stands atm imo, but, as has been evidenced, that's very arguable.

#30 Edited by Genki_Sudo (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@White Mage said:

A SOLID character being written in a way that is 2 steps below "lackluster" by writers who should know better doesn't exactly help your statement though. Storm was written the way she SHOULD HAVE been written under Brian Wood's pen. Just about everyone who has seen her portrayal/development under Claremont agrees with this. And, again, I've only heard people celebrating over a writer actually doing his research. I don't really see how you could be prepared to make a statement that it's karma against Storm fans, when Storm's many years of history support the idea that she is a badass in her own right, with T'challa being a bonus.

It would take EFFORT for someone to come in and just f*ck up her portrayal after Brian leaves. So my hopes and expectations aren't exactly unrealistic. It's her ensemble book anyway.

Considering how lackluster she was being written outside of Brian's books in the same x-verse( and you can argue if Wood's run was even as great as folks like yourself claim it to be ) I have been pointing out that how the Wood safety net some fans have been clinging to has been yanked away and I simply wished you guys luck and retracted my statements about karma but you're fear is blatant that even yourself knows what might be around the corner for Ms. Munroe since that supposed obstacle is gone.

You claim there's nothing to worry so why are you worrying?

@jhazzroucher said:

so you're also here. . it's me RLAAMJR. : )

'Ello

#31 Edited by stambo42 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

@stambo42 said:

Um, the guy has been on for all of five issues, how exactly are we crediting him with the best Storm since Claremont? Where is this great characterization? Domino feels like a nothing that can be pushed any direction regardless of whether it even serves the plot, Storm makes a big stink about going behind Cyclops's back without ever justifying why she feels she can't trust him (it would not be hard to do with a little effort, but did not happen, regardless) I get nothing from his Psylocke or Pixie.... I think Colossus might make it the best out of this in his questioning of Storm's lack of forthrightness with Cyclops... at least Wood remembered that loyalty and small town honesty is part of his character... though even he feels thinly written. With flat characters serving an unrealized plot, this feels like a writer who knows he signed up for a short tenure failing to apply himself to characters and plots he knows he won't have time to develop, or the power to change. I'm no fan boy, but I miss a relevant Storm. I certainly haven't found her here.

In terms of characterization, let's take look back at the people who have had the oppurtunity of handling the character since Claremont and even Brubaker's departure, last 5 years.

Hudlin - Didn't do much for the character after the marriage other than give other X-Writers at the time, the petty reason that they weren't allowed to use her because she was married. Completely ignored all prior development, and, her sole purpose was to be the BP's wife. That's it. He did have some impressive power showings, which writers after failed to demonstrate, but in the end, the character was not there, she just the Black Panther's black wife.

Fraction - Bringing in the horrible reign of X-Men mis-treatment for three years until Gillen came. Wrote the character as a preachy Goddess who served no purpose other than denouncing lesser beings for not following certain orders, or, for the most part, as wallpaper. There was that one scene with Emma but that's more or less, it. He found her more intriguing when she was placed somewhere in the background flinging useless lightning bolts.

Ellis - He's a fantastic writer and i'll give him credit where it's due, but i never found his portrayal as compelling as Wood's. He did though, pull the character from limbo and feature her in his run of Astonishing X-Men, where she was portrayed well...for the most part. I will forever be in his debt for that. I liked how he brought the Storm/Cyclops rivalry thing back, but it felt almost as if Storm had to take the back-seat in order to show readers that Cyclops was entering a new age of "I'm tired of this consant BS so nobody question my authority and actions or you're off the team". I'm taking this from that scene where she rejoined the team and Cyke basically shut her up because of her moralistic values, her priorities were for the life then that of the mission itself, which is understandable, but like i said, Cyke had to shut her up, compare that to the Storm we're getting now with Wood, who is actually willing to take the risks for as long as it benefits "The Cause". I'm not saying this "shut Storm up" thing is a taboo, but if you're going to reply to that, please do refer to Claremont's issues.

Yost - Wrote one of the best Storm stories--if not one of the best X-Stories--of that time. X-Men: Worlds Apart. Chracterization was on point as well as the power showings and character moments in-between, honestly, there is absolutely nothing i can nit-pick from his take, so he's not exactly a factor in this. Probably did have the best portrayal of the character since Claremont, along with Wood. But there were three other crooks who did, too.

Gischler - Good man. Good stories for the most part and wrote a good Storm. He even made it clear that he was a big fan of the character which is why he had her appear in Adjectiveless prior to #30 anytime he could. Realistically speaking, there was no character devlopment, Wood and Gischler wrote her in the same series, and it's more than clear who did more. Gischler wrote her as a leader, while Wood wrote her as much more than that.

Gillen - Had Storm retain a place amongst his Extinction Team, which was good for the character, she had a nice moment in the first issue of Uncanny Vol.2 and had some nice parts in Tabula Rasa, then that was it. His depiction of the character wasn't far off from Fraction's, in the preachy sense, there were no deferences except for analogies. It didn't exactly look as if he was all too invested in the character, as well. She was there because she was there. Didn't develop her and also had her shoot lightning when neccessary except for that one issue in the TR arc. That's it. And if you've seen Uncanny X-Men #17, you'll know what i'm talking about. He said her role on the team was to be the moral compass, he did not and i repeat: did not deliver on that. She was the preachy not-Goddess. Nothing more nothing less. Gillen, was far more invested in the villians that he was featuring more so than the characters he had play with, which is why his run, imo, will be extremely forgettable if character development's what you're looking for.

(not mentioning Bendis because that honestly serves no point to the debate.)

Wood - The man in question. Before we got a taste of what he had in store for the character, his words were "-Though i am interested in getting a good handle on Storm" and with #30, many of us could see why. There's nothing to ponder in why the Storm fans, you know, fans of the character who--not to sound pretentious or conceited--know the character in and out, were more than exultant to see that there actually was a writer in Marvel, who actually did their research, to actually write a character. From what's been written, his representation is almost, if not completely, identical to Claremont's. She's a leader, a tactician, an analyzer of situations with immense gravity, and, the actual moral compass, a concept which Gillen introduced but failed to deliver on. We have the woman who's not afraid to take risks and leave the bigger men out of the loop (analogous to Storm taking her own team of X-Men to create the X-Treme X-Men, unbeknownst to everyone but the members of her team, written by Claremont, by the way.), we have a writer, who can deliver in team conflicts without everything looking like it was forced, or, just no team conflicts at all and it's simply follow the Dictator (current Uncanny X-Men). We have a woman who does reconsider her actions in turn, second guessing herself (Mutant Massacre as well as X-Treme X-Men. Written by Claremont.) as well as a writer who induces slightly different take on characters, but in the long run, it, for the most part, fails to leave anything else to be desired.

Apoogies, but i'd much rather have this:

Over this:

Any day of the week, wouldn't you ? Feel free to call me a rabid fan, or a silly Storm fanboy or w.e, but i believe that's as narrow as it gets.

Yeah. Best Storm since Claremont. And if i may add, one of the best X-Titles on the stands atm imo, but, as has been evidenced, that's very arguable.

I'll be frank and say I haven't read most of those runs. I was away at college, and just bought TPBs of things like Messiah Complex. I do however own pretty much every X-men issue published between 1998 and 2004 (uncanny, new, xtreme, you name it) and most of the X-men titles published in the past year or so. I also have the majority Uncanny and adjectiveless from between 1987 and 1993. I'll be blunt though, and say that though I can't compare the quality of Wood's five issues with everything you've listed, context doesn't matter when something is just written poorly or without interest. You seem to be suggesting that simply by writing her as more aggressive and assertive, he's written her better. There is a clear difference between your two scans, but I think what you may be missing is a matter of the quality that has to back up the behavior we may desire in our characters. It's the difference between saying and showing. In the late 80s Storm didn't have to make childish threats to her teammates to get them to follow. She led with confidence and conviction, and until She got blown out of the sky by Havok and turned into an eight year old kid, she did pretty well for herself. Some of her best work was done without powers at all.

As I've stated before, Wood doesn't really justify why Ororo is taking these actions. It shouldn't be too hard to justify going behind Cyclops's back these days... but he fails to indicate a reason, (as a leader, she has some responsibility to provide this to her followers) and makes her come off as at best, petty. Scott may be a prick, but at least his been well written and fleshed out as such. He's a very believable asshole, and one who in the end is a bit tragic for the circumstances that have led him to this kind of leadership. In not qualifying and justifying her decision to cut him out of the loop, Wood undermines her integrity. It's as if he's looking for some artificial plot device to make her more independent. Clearly there is an audience for this, but at least have the respect to flesh it out and make it the believable actions of a responsible leader. I don't see that.

What Wood has given us is an insulting and superficial image of strength and independence.

I'd take "Goddess save me" over that any day.

Sometimes neglecting a character is healthier than forcing a contrived image of power or autonomy.

Being a long term Rogue fan has made me more antagonistic to the slop that is Legacy, even if she's being portrayed as "strong, independent, ethical, etc."

I did enjoy that Sentinel arc though. It was passable.

Claremont wrote a strong Storm in Xtreme, I'll give it that, but that series was fraught with other problems... I generally found it to be an overwrought action adventure that didn't seem to know where it was going. It was made all the more difficult to accept because Morrison's run was going on at the same time.

Maybe Wood is writing the best Storm since Claremont, but if that isn't saying much, maybe it's not worth saying.

#32 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@stambo42 said:

@AgeofHurricane said:

@stambo42 said:

Um, the guy has been on for all of five issues, how exactly are we crediting him with the best Storm since Claremont? Where is this great characterization? Domino feels like a nothing that can be pushed any direction regardless of whether it even serves the plot, Storm makes a big stink about going behind Cyclops's back without ever justifying why she feels she can't trust him (it would not be hard to do with a little effort, but did not happen, regardless) I get nothing from his Psylocke or Pixie.... I think Colossus might make it the best out of this in his questioning of Storm's lack of forthrightness with Cyclops... at least Wood remembered that loyalty and small town honesty is part of his character... though even he feels thinly written. With flat characters serving an unrealized plot, this feels like a writer who knows he signed up for a short tenure failing to apply himself to characters and plots he knows he won't have time to develop, or the power to change. I'm no fan boy, but I miss a relevant Storm. I certainly haven't found her here.

In terms of characterization, let's take look back at the people who have had the oppurtunity of handling the character since Claremont and even Brubaker's departure, last 5 years.

Hudlin - Didn't do much for the character after the marriage other than give other X-Writers at the time, the petty reason that they weren't allowed to use her because she was married. Completely ignored all prior development, and, her sole purpose was to be the BP's wife. That's it. He did have some impressive power showings, which writers after failed to demonstrate, but in the end, the character was not there, she just the Black Panther's black wife.

Fraction - Bringing in the horrible reign of X-Men mis-treatment for three years until Gillen came. Wrote the character as a preachy Goddess who served no purpose other than denouncing lesser beings for not following certain orders, or, for the most part, as wallpaper. There was that one scene with Emma but that's more or less, it. He found her more intriguing when she was placed somewhere in the background flinging useless lightning bolts.

Ellis - He's a fantastic writer and i'll give him credit where it's due, but i never found his portrayal as compelling as Wood's. He did though, pull the character from limbo and feature her in his run of Astonishing X-Men, where she was portrayed well...for the most part. I will forever be in his debt for that. I liked how he brought the Storm/Cyclops rivalry thing back, but it felt almost as if Storm had to take the back-seat in order to show readers that Cyclops was entering a new age of "I'm tired of this consant BS so nobody question my authority and actions or you're off the team". I'm taking this from that scene where she rejoined the team and Cyke basically shut her up because of her moralistic values, her priorities were for the life then that of the mission itself, which is understandable, but like i said, Cyke had to shut her up, compare that to the Storm we're getting now with Wood, who is actually willing to take the risks for as long as it benefits "The Cause". I'm not saying this "shut Storm up" thing is a taboo, but if you're going to reply to that, please do refer to Claremont's issues.

Yost - Wrote one of the best Storm stories--if not one of the best X-Stories--of that time. X-Men: Worlds Apart. Chracterization was on point as well as the power showings and character moments in-between, honestly, there is absolutely nothing i can nit-pick from his take, so he's not exactly a factor in this. Probably did have the best portrayal of the character since Claremont, along with Wood. But there were three other crooks who did, too.

Gischler - Good man. Good stories for the most part and wrote a good Storm. He even made it clear that he was a big fan of the character which is why he had her appear in Adjectiveless prior to #30 anytime he could. Realistically speaking, there was no character devlopment, Wood and Gischler wrote her in the same series, and it's more than clear who did more. Gischler wrote her as a leader, while Wood wrote her as much more than that.

Gillen - Had Storm retain a place amongst his Extinction Team, which was good for the character, she had a nice moment in the first issue of Uncanny Vol.2 and had some nice parts in Tabula Rasa, then that was it. His depiction of the character wasn't far off from Fraction's, in the preachy sense, there were no deferences except for analogies. It didn't exactly look as if he was all too invested in the character, as well. She was there because she was there. Didn't develop her and also had her shoot lightning when neccessary except for that one issue in the TR arc. That's it. And if you've seen Uncanny X-Men #17, you'll know what i'm talking about. He said her role on the team was to be the moral compass, he did not and i repeat: did not deliver on that. She was the preachy not-Goddess. Nothing more nothing less. Gillen, was far more invested in the villians that he was featuring more so than the characters he had play with, which is why his run, imo, will be extremely forgettable if character development's what you're looking for.

(not mentioning Bendis because that honestly serves no point to the debate.)

Wood - The man in question. Before we got a taste of what he had in store for the character, his words were "-Though i am interested in getting a good handle on Storm" and with #30, many of us could see why. There's nothing to ponder in why the Storm fans, you know, fans of the character who--not to sound pretentious or conceited--know the character in and out, were more than exultant to see that there actually was a writer in Marvel, who actually did their research, to actually write a character. From what's been written, his representation is almost, if not completely, identical to Claremont's. She's a leader, a tactician, an analyzer of situations with immense gravity, and, the actual moral compass, a concept which Gillen introduced but failed to deliver on. We have the woman who's not afraid to take risks and leave the bigger men out of the loop (analogous to Storm taking her own team of X-Men to create the X-Treme X-Men, unbeknownst to everyone but the members of her team, written by Claremont, by the way.), we have a writer, who can deliver in team conflicts without everything looking like it was forced, or, just no team conflicts at all and it's simply follow the Dictator (current Uncanny X-Men). We have a woman who does reconsider her actions in turn, second guessing herself (Mutant Massacre as well as X-Treme X-Men. Written by Claremont.) as well as a writer who induces slightly different take on characters, but in the long run, it, for the most part, fails to leave anything else to be desired.

Apoogies, but i'd much rather have this:

Over this:

Any day of the week, wouldn't you ? Feel free to call me a rabid fan, or a silly Storm fanboy or w.e, but i believe that's as narrow as it gets.

Yeah. Best Storm since Claremont. And if i may add, one of the best X-Titles on the stands atm imo, but, as has been evidenced, that's very arguable.

I'll be frank and say I haven't read most of those runs. I was away at college, and just bought TPBs of things like Messiah Complex. I do however own pretty much every X-men issue published between 1998 and 2004 (uncanny, new, xtreme, you name it) and most of the X-men titles published in the past year or so. I also have the majority Uncanny and adjectiveless from between 1987 and 1993. I'll be blunt though, and say that though I can't compare the quality of Wood's five issues with everything you've listed, context doesn't matter when something is just written poorly or without interest. You seem to be suggesting that simply by writing her as more aggressive and assertive, he's written her better. There is a clear difference between your two scans, but I think what you may be missing is a matter of the quality that has to back up the behavior we may desire in our characters. It's the difference between saying and showing. In the late 80s Storm didn't have to make childish threats to her teammates to get them to follow. She led with confidence and conviction, and until She got blown out of the sky by Havok and turned into an eight year old kid, she did pretty well for herself. Some of her best work was done without powers at all.

As I've stated before, Wood doesn't really justify why Ororo is taking these actions. It shouldn't be too hard to justify going behind Cyclops's back these days... but he fails to indicate a reason, (as a leader, she has some responsibility to provide this to her followers) and makes her come off as at best, petty. Scott may be a prick, but at least his been well written and fleshed out as such. He's a very believable asshole, and one who in the end is a bit tragic for the circumstances that have led him to this kind of leadership. In not qualifying and justifying her decision to cut him out of the loop, Wood undermines her integrity. It's as if he's looking for some artificial plot device to make her more independent. Clearly there is an audience for this, but at least have the respect to flesh it out and make it the believable actions of a responsible leader. I don't see that.

What Wood has given us is an insulting and superficial image of strength and independence.

I'd take "Goddess save me" over that any day.

Sometimes neglecting a character is healthier than forcing a contrived image of power or autonomy.

Being a long term Rogue fan has made me more antagonistic to the slop that is Legacy, even if she's being portrayed as "strong, independent, ethical, etc."

I did enjoy that Sentinel arc though. It was passable.

Claremont wrote a strong Storm in Xtreme, I'll give it that, but that series was fraught with other problems... I generally found it to be an overwrought action adventure that didn't seem to know where it was going. It was made all the more difficult to accept because Morrison's run was going on at the same time.

Maybe Wood is writing the best Storm since Claremont, but if that isn't saying much, maybe it's not worth saying.

Well then i guess this comes down to what fans really look for in characters, the actual values. You're quite right, though, she did lead with confidence and conviction, but as you're aware, the times have have changed. Drastically and far beyond repair.

And, as far as i'm concerned, he very much did. Yes, it can be argued that the Schism between Scott and Logan has nothing to do with the Proto-Mutant issue so it was an asinine thing for Storm to just lie to him, but in truth, she made it quite clear why she did what she had to do. Proto-Mutants are a serious issue, as silly as that may sound, Wolverine and Scott both being leaders of their own halves of Mutantkind would jump at the first opportunity they had to get to the bottom of this, there's still a Schism and they're still at odds, something as crucial to Mutants as this could possibly cut to their deep divide more than had been done so, being the moral compass of the Blue Side, she had to prevent that. It was more for her biding time to gather more information of the subject that SHE herself had discovered, instead of telling Scott, who would have shoved her out the picture and took full control of the situation himself faster than you could say "Mutant" and you know it. Telling anyone linked to the Blue or Yellow side would have been a fatal mistake on her part, because that would bring more heads into the situation that she would have anticipated, and that would be down-right stupid.

In short:

In the long run, telling him the moment she had found out would have been idiotic, because then they wouldn't have even found Ister, the Proto-Mutant that Illyana came to see. Mainly because, like i said before, Scott would have barged in and ran the show himself, anyways, has the man not lied and kept things from his fellow teammates himself ? He's already got enough things on his plate, it certainly wouldn't make sense to add more hassle. She had to make the decision herself, and in the end, it was for the best. They had only literally just scratched the surface with those terminal monsters popping up everywhere, she, with her team, needed to find more clues and answers before bringing other people into the equation. Please remember, this is the same Storm who kept Destinies Diaries a secret from Charles Xavier. This current instance shouldn't be much of a suprise.

The scan above also shows character development for Storm, on Wood's part. Mainly because in the past, Storm had made plenty of "on the spot decisions" but in the long run, those decisions back-fired and turnt out fatally (Mutant Massacre, Fall Of The Mutants). This time around, she's taking what time she has availabel, to think things through instead of running straight into the situation. It was the better thing to do, regardless of that, Storm is in a nature, a preachy and independent person, but when the situation calls for looking at what's right infront of her, then she will do it.

And to counter that "superficial image of strength and independence" coment, if it's of any consolation, she did, in the end, tell Scott.

This wasn't arrogance or pride, it was thorough thinking. It's a trait that the writers (excluding Yost and for the majority, Ellis) above have failed to hit time and time again, not that she needs to be rough, hard-headed and assertive, but that there is a woman who thinks things through and won't hesitate to be sneaky when need be, instead of flinging the usual lightning bolt and making the false "Goddess" claim.

#33 Posted by jhazzroucher (15531 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rickbarry said:

I can't say I'm the biggest Storm fan as I've created a thread dedicated to Storm getting punched in the face, lol. Although I can admit that the last few issues of X-men have definitely picked up since the whole vampire/sentinel/skrull arcs that preceeded Wood coming onto the team. Domino might be a little quiet in their issues, but I think Psylocke and Pixie fulfill their role quite well. The whole protomutant issue seems to be a plot device to further the Colossus/Storm split. Surely it can't only be Wolverine and Scott that disagree on mutant policies, eh? It works for me, but then again I am a rather huge Colossus fan. So I could be biased.

I am. : )

#34 Posted by stambo42 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

@stambo42 said:

@AgeofHurricane said:

@stambo42 said:

Um, the guy has been on for all of five issues, how exactly are we crediting him with the best Storm since Claremont? Where is this great characterization? Domino feels like a nothing that can be pushed any direction regardless of whether it even serves the plot, Storm makes a big stink about going behind Cyclops's back without ever justifying why she feels she can't trust him (it would not be hard to do with a little effort, but did not happen, regardless) I get nothing from his Psylocke or Pixie.... I think Colossus might make it the best out of this in his questioning of Storm's lack of forthrightness with Cyclops... at least Wood remembered that loyalty and small town honesty is part of his character... though even he feels thinly written. With flat characters serving an unrealized plot, this feels like a writer who knows he signed up for a short tenure failing to apply himself to characters and plots he knows he won't have time to develop, or the power to change. I'm no fan boy, but I miss a relevant Storm. I certainly haven't found her here.

In terms of characterization, let's take look back at the people who have had the oppurtunity of handling the character since Claremont and even Brubaker's departure, last 5 years.

Hudlin - Didn't do much for the character after the marriage other than give other X-Writers at the time, the petty reason that they weren't allowed to use her because she was married. Completely ignored all prior development, and, her sole purpose was to be the BP's wife. That's it. He did have some impressive power showings, which writers after failed to demonstrate, but in the end, the character was not there, she just the Black Panther's black wife.

Fraction - Bringing in the horrible reign of X-Men mis-treatment for three years until Gillen came. Wrote the character as a preachy Goddess who served no purpose other than denouncing lesser beings for not following certain orders, or, for the most part, as wallpaper. There was that one scene with Emma but that's more or less, it. He found her more intriguing when she was placed somewhere in the background flinging useless lightning bolts.

Ellis - He's a fantastic writer and i'll give him credit where it's due, but i never found his portrayal as compelling as Wood's. He did though, pull the character from limbo and feature her in his run of Astonishing X-Men, where she was portrayed well...for the most part. I will forever be in his debt for that. I liked how he brought the Storm/Cyclops rivalry thing back, but it felt almost as if Storm had to take the back-seat in order to show readers that Cyclops was entering a new age of "I'm tired of this consant BS so nobody question my authority and actions or you're off the team". I'm taking this from that scene where she rejoined the team and Cyke basically shut her up because of her moralistic values, her priorities were for the life then that of the mission itself, which is understandable, but like i said, Cyke had to shut her up, compare that to the Storm we're getting now with Wood, who is actually willing to take the risks for as long as it benefits "The Cause". I'm not saying this "shut Storm up" thing is a taboo, but if you're going to reply to that, please do refer to Claremont's issues.

Yost - Wrote one of the best Storm stories--if not one of the best X-Stories--of that time. X-Men: Worlds Apart. Chracterization was on point as well as the power showings and character moments in-between, honestly, there is absolutely nothing i can nit-pick from his take, so he's not exactly a factor in this. Probably did have the best portrayal of the character since Claremont, along with Wood. But there were three other crooks who did, too.

Gischler - Good man. Good stories for the most part and wrote a good Storm. He even made it clear that he was a big fan of the character which is why he had her appear in Adjectiveless prior to #30 anytime he could. Realistically speaking, there was no character devlopment, Wood and Gischler wrote her in the same series, and it's more than clear who did more. Gischler wrote her as a leader, while Wood wrote her as much more than that.

Gillen - Had Storm retain a place amongst his Extinction Team, which was good for the character, she had a nice moment in the first issue of Uncanny Vol.2 and had some nice parts in Tabula Rasa, then that was it. His depiction of the character wasn't far off from Fraction's, in the preachy sense, there were no deferences except for analogies. It didn't exactly look as if he was all too invested in the character, as well. She was there because she was there. Didn't develop her and also had her shoot lightning when neccessary except for that one issue in the TR arc. That's it. And if you've seen Uncanny X-Men #17, you'll know what i'm talking about. He said her role on the team was to be the moral compass, he did not and i repeat: did not deliver on that. She was the preachy not-Goddess. Nothing more nothing less. Gillen, was far more invested in the villians that he was featuring more so than the characters he had play with, which is why his run, imo, will be extremely forgettable if character development's what you're looking for.

(not mentioning Bendis because that honestly serves no point to the debate.)

Wood - The man in question. Before we got a taste of what he had in store for the character, his words were "-Though i am interested in getting a good handle on Storm" and with #30, many of us could see why. There's nothing to ponder in why the Storm fans, you know, fans of the character who--not to sound pretentious or conceited--know the character in and out, were more than exultant to see that there actually was a writer in Marvel, who actually did their research, to actually write a character. From what's been written, his representation is almost, if not completely, identical to Claremont's. She's a leader, a tactician, an analyzer of situations with immense gravity, and, the actual moral compass, a concept which Gillen introduced but failed to deliver on. We have the woman who's not afraid to take risks and leave the bigger men out of the loop (analogous to Storm taking her own team of X-Men to create the X-Treme X-Men, unbeknownst to everyone but the members of her team, written by Claremont, by the way.), we have a writer, who can deliver in team conflicts without everything looking like it was forced, or, just no team conflicts at all and it's simply follow the Dictator (current Uncanny X-Men). We have a woman who does reconsider her actions in turn, second guessing herself (Mutant Massacre as well as X-Treme X-Men. Written by Claremont.) as well as a writer who induces slightly different take on characters, but in the long run, it, for the most part, fails to leave anything else to be desired.

Apoogies, but i'd much rather have this:

Over this:

Any day of the week, wouldn't you ? Feel free to call me a rabid fan, or a silly Storm fanboy or w.e, but i believe that's as narrow as it gets.

Yeah. Best Storm since Claremont. And if i may add, one of the best X-Titles on the stands atm imo, but, as has been evidenced, that's very arguable.

I'll be frank and say I haven't read most of those runs. I was away at college, and just bought TPBs of things like Messiah Complex. I do however own pretty much every X-men issue published between 1998 and 2004 (uncanny, new, xtreme, you name it) and most of the X-men titles published in the past year or so. I also have the majority Uncanny and adjectiveless from between 1987 and 1993. I'll be blunt though, and say that though I can't compare the quality of Wood's five issues with everything you've listed, context doesn't matter when something is just written poorly or without interest. You seem to be suggesting that simply by writing her as more aggressive and assertive, he's written her better. There is a clear difference between your two scans, but I think what you may be missing is a matter of the quality that has to back up the behavior we may desire in our characters. It's the difference between saying and showing. In the late 80s Storm didn't have to make childish threats to her teammates to get them to follow. She led with confidence and conviction, and until She got blown out of the sky by Havok and turned into an eight year old kid, she did pretty well for herself. Some of her best work was done without powers at all.

As I've stated before, Wood doesn't really justify why Ororo is taking these actions. It shouldn't be too hard to justify going behind Cyclops's back these days... but he fails to indicate a reason, (as a leader, she has some responsibility to provide this to her followers) and makes her come off as at best, petty. Scott may be a prick, but at least his been well written and fleshed out as such. He's a very believable asshole, and one who in the end is a bit tragic for the circumstances that have led him to this kind of leadership. In not qualifying and justifying her decision to cut him out of the loop, Wood undermines her integrity. It's as if he's looking for some artificial plot device to make her more independent. Clearly there is an audience for this, but at least have the respect to flesh it out and make it the believable actions of a responsible leader. I don't see that.

What Wood has given us is an insulting and superficial image of strength and independence.

I'd take "Goddess save me" over that any day.

Sometimes neglecting a character is healthier than forcing a contrived image of power or autonomy.

Being a long term Rogue fan has made me more antagonistic to the slop that is Legacy, even if she's being portrayed as "strong, independent, ethical, etc."

I did enjoy that Sentinel arc though. It was passable.

Claremont wrote a strong Storm in Xtreme, I'll give it that, but that series was fraught with other problems... I generally found it to be an overwrought action adventure that didn't seem to know where it was going. It was made all the more difficult to accept because Morrison's run was going on at the same time.

Maybe Wood is writing the best Storm since Claremont, but if that isn't saying much, maybe it's not worth saying.

Well then i guess this comes down to what fans really look for in characters, the actual values. You're quite right, though, she did lead with confidence and conviction, but as you're aware, the times have have changed. Drastically and far beyond repair.

And, as far as i'm concerned, he very much did. Yes, it can be argued that the Schism between Scott and Logan has nothing to do with the Proto-Mutant issue so it was an asinine thing for Storm to just lie to him, but in truth, she made it quite clear why she did what she had to do. Proto-Mutants are a serious issue, as silly as that may sound, Wolverine and Scott both being leaders of their own halves of Mutantkind would jump at the first opportunity they had to get to the bottom of this, there's still a Schism and they're still at odds, something as crucial to Mutants as this could possibly cut to their deep divide more than had been done so, being the moral compass of the Blue Side, she had to prevent that. It was more for her biding time to gather more information of the subject that SHE herself had discovered, instead of telling Scott, who would have shoved her out the picture and took full control of the situation himself faster than you could say "Mutant" and you know it. Telling anyone linked to the Blue or Yellow side would have been a fatal mistake on her part, because that would bring more heads into the situation that she would have anticipated, and that would be down-right stupid.

In short:

In the long run, telling him the moment she had found out would have been idiotic, because then they wouldn't have even found Ister, the Proto-Mutant that Illyana came to see. Mainly because, like i said before, Scott would have barged in and ran the show himself, anyways, has the man not lied and kept things from his fellow teammates himself ? He's already got enough things on his plate, it certainly wouldn't make sense to add more hassle. She had to make the decision herself, and in the end, it was for the best. They had only literally just scratched the surface with those terminal monsters popping up everywhere, she, with her team, needed to find more clues and answers before bringing other people into the equation. Please remember, this is the same Storm who kept Destinies Diaries a secret from Charles Xavier. This current instance shouldn't be much of a suprise.

The scan above also shows character development for Storm, on Wood's part. Mainly because in the past, Storm had made plenty of "on the spot decisions" but in the long run, those decisions back-fired and turnt out fatally (Mutant Massacre, Fall Of The Mutants). This time around, she's taking what time she has availabel, to think things through instead of running straight into the situation. It was the better thing to do, regardless of that, Storm is in a nature, a preachy and independent person, but when the situation calls for looking at what's right infront of her, then she will do it.

And to counter that "superficial image of strength and independence" coment, if it's of any consolation, she did, in the end, tell Scott.

This wasn't arrogance or pride, it was thorough thinking. It's a trait that the writers (excluding Yost and for the majority, Ellis) above have failed to hit time and time again, not that she needs to be rough, hard-headed and assertive, but that there is a woman who thinks things through and won't hesitate to be sneaky when need be, instead of flinging the usual lightning bolt and making the false "Goddess" claim.

What you're saying is much more specific and purposeful than what Wood is saying in that panel. He's being terribly vague, unnecessarily so for a leader that has to be a good communicator. It's not a terribly difficult thing to insert or infer, as it gives the scene and her actions more purpose, and if Wood was bothering to do a decent job writing this book, perhaps what he would have written. You even could have been more specific and have said that either side would devolve into using this as a political weapon

I doubt most readers of this issue would even be aware of 213 or 227. I don't recall him giving her a panel where she reflects on being too impulsive in her leadership in the past, so I'm not able to give him the credit for having that be a considered and insightful decision by design.

With a good writer, you don't have to step outside the comic to force the inference of this stuff. I never have to do this while reading Uncanny X-Force. If I leave the characters in the scene, it's not to make sense of their motivations, which are clear and thoughtfully laid out, it's to conceptually play with the thematic ethics issues that run through the series. With a good writer, who has a commitment to a series, you have more than a forced singular case of character development with which to defend a series.

Like, by the end of Sandman, Gaiman is bringing his his readers to tears with single lines of dialogue text. He can do this because he's crafted believable characters so organic that we can hear the entire history which precedes them in a single line. That's what good writing and character development sounds like. Maybe that's a high standard to hold anyone to, but what are standards for? There's nothing even approaching that here. Somehow Remender is managing it. Hell, even the end of Messiah Complex achieved this, and I'm not talking about Xavier getting shot in the head for five minutes.

#35 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@stambo42 said:

@AgeofHurricane said:

@stambo42 said:

@AgeofHurricane said:

@stambo42 said:

Um, the guy has been on for all of five issues, how exactly are we crediting him with the best Storm since Claremont? Where is this great characterization? Domino feels like a nothing that can be pushed any direction regardless of whether it even serves the plot, Storm makes a big stink about going behind Cyclops's back without ever justifying why she feels she can't trust him (it would not be hard to do with a little effort, but did not happen, regardless) I get nothing from his Psylocke or Pixie.... I think Colossus might make it the best out of this in his questioning of Storm's lack of forthrightness with Cyclops... at least Wood remembered that loyalty and small town honesty is part of his character... though even he feels thinly written. With flat characters serving an unrealized plot, this feels like a writer who knows he signed up for a short tenure failing to apply himself to characters and plots he knows he won't have time to develop, or the power to change. I'm no fan boy, but I miss a relevant Storm. I certainly haven't found her here.

In terms of characterization, let's take look back at the people who have had the oppurtunity of handling the character since Claremont and even Brubaker's departure, last 5 years.

Hudlin - Didn't do much for the character after the marriage other than give other X-Writers at the time, the petty reason that they weren't allowed to use her because she was married. Completely ignored all prior development, and, her sole purpose was to be the BP's wife. That's it. He did have some impressive power showings, which writers after failed to demonstrate, but in the end, the character was not there, she just the Black Panther's black wife.

Fraction - Bringing in the horrible reign of X-Men mis-treatment for three years until Gillen came. Wrote the character as a preachy Goddess who served no purpose other than denouncing lesser beings for not following certain orders, or, for the most part, as wallpaper. There was that one scene with Emma but that's more or less, it. He found her more intriguing when she was placed somewhere in the background flinging useless lightning bolts.

Ellis - He's a fantastic writer and i'll give him credit where it's due, but i never found his portrayal as compelling as Wood's. He did though, pull the character from limbo and feature her in his run of Astonishing X-Men, where she was portrayed well...for the most part. I will forever be in his debt for that. I liked how he brought the Storm/Cyclops rivalry thing back, but it felt almost as if Storm had to take the back-seat in order to show readers that Cyclops was entering a new age of "I'm tired of this consant BS so nobody question my authority and actions or you're off the team". I'm taking this from that scene where she rejoined the team and Cyke basically shut her up because of her moralistic values, her priorities were for the life then that of the mission itself, which is understandable, but like i said, Cyke had to shut her up, compare that to the Storm we're getting now with Wood, who is actually willing to take the risks for as long as it benefits "The Cause". I'm not saying this "shut Storm up" thing is a taboo, but if you're going to reply to that, please do refer to Claremont's issues.

Yost - Wrote one of the best Storm stories--if not one of the best X-Stories--of that time. X-Men: Worlds Apart. Chracterization was on point as well as the power showings and character moments in-between, honestly, there is absolutely nothing i can nit-pick from his take, so he's not exactly a factor in this. Probably did have the best portrayal of the character since Claremont, along with Wood. But there were three other crooks who did, too.

Gischler - Good man. Good stories for the most part and wrote a good Storm. He even made it clear that he was a big fan of the character which is why he had her appear in Adjectiveless prior to #30 anytime he could. Realistically speaking, there was no character devlopment, Wood and Gischler wrote her in the same series, and it's more than clear who did more. Gischler wrote her as a leader, while Wood wrote her as much more than that.

Gillen - Had Storm retain a place amongst his Extinction Team, which was good for the character, she had a nice moment in the first issue of Uncanny Vol.2 and had some nice parts in Tabula Rasa, then that was it. His depiction of the character wasn't far off from Fraction's, in the preachy sense, there were no deferences except for analogies. It didn't exactly look as if he was all too invested in the character, as well. She was there because she was there. Didn't develop her and also had her shoot lightning when neccessary except for that one issue in the TR arc. That's it. And if you've seen Uncanny X-Men #17, you'll know what i'm talking about. He said her role on the team was to be the moral compass, he did not and i repeat: did not deliver on that. She was the preachy not-Goddess. Nothing more nothing less. Gillen, was far more invested in the villians that he was featuring more so than the characters he had play with, which is why his run, imo, will be extremely forgettable if character development's what you're looking for.

(not mentioning Bendis because that honestly serves no point to the debate.)

Wood - The man in question. Before we got a taste of what he had in store for the character, his words were "-Though i am interested in getting a good handle on Storm" and with #30, many of us could see why. There's nothing to ponder in why the Storm fans, you know, fans of the character who--not to sound pretentious or conceited--know the character in and out, were more than exultant to see that there actually was a writer in Marvel, who actually did their research, to actually write a character. From what's been written, his representation is almost, if not completely, identical to Claremont's. She's a leader, a tactician, an analyzer of situations with immense gravity, and, the actual moral compass, a concept which Gillen introduced but failed to deliver on. We have the woman who's not afraid to take risks and leave the bigger men out of the loop (analogous to Storm taking her own team of X-Men to create the X-Treme X-Men, unbeknownst to everyone but the members of her team, written by Claremont, by the way.), we have a writer, who can deliver in team conflicts without everything looking like it was forced, or, just no team conflicts at all and it's simply follow the Dictator (current Uncanny X-Men). We have a woman who does reconsider her actions in turn, second guessing herself (Mutant Massacre as well as X-Treme X-Men. Written by Claremont.) as well as a writer who induces slightly different take on characters, but in the long run, it, for the most part, fails to leave anything else to be desired.

Apoogies, but i'd much rather have this:

Over this:

Any day of the week, wouldn't you ? Feel free to call me a rabid fan, or a silly Storm fanboy or w.e, but i believe that's as narrow as it gets.

Yeah. Best Storm since Claremont. And if i may add, one of the best X-Titles on the stands atm imo, but, as has been evidenced, that's very arguable.

I'll be frank and say I haven't read most of those runs. I was away at college, and just bought TPBs of things like Messiah Complex. I do however own pretty much every X-men issue published between 1998 and 2004 (uncanny, new, xtreme, you name it) and most of the X-men titles published in the past year or so. I also have the majority Uncanny and adjectiveless from between 1987 and 1993. I'll be blunt though, and say that though I can't compare the quality of Wood's five issues with everything you've listed, context doesn't matter when something is just written poorly or without interest. You seem to be suggesting that simply by writing her as more aggressive and assertive, he's written her better. There is a clear difference between your two scans, but I think what you may be missing is a matter of the quality that has to back up the behavior we may desire in our characters. It's the difference between saying and showing. In the late 80s Storm didn't have to make childish threats to her teammates to get them to follow. She led with confidence and conviction, and until She got blown out of the sky by Havok and turned into an eight year old kid, she did pretty well for herself. Some of her best work was done without powers at all.

As I've stated before, Wood doesn't really justify why Ororo is taking these actions. It shouldn't be too hard to justify going behind Cyclops's back these days... but he fails to indicate a reason, (as a leader, she has some responsibility to provide this to her followers) and makes her come off as at best, petty. Scott may be a prick, but at least his been well written and fleshed out as such. He's a very believable asshole, and one who in the end is a bit tragic for the circumstances that have led him to this kind of leadership. In not qualifying and justifying her decision to cut him out of the loop, Wood undermines her integrity. It's as if he's looking for some artificial plot device to make her more independent. Clearly there is an audience for this, but at least have the respect to flesh it out and make it the believable actions of a responsible leader. I don't see that.

What Wood has given us is an insulting and superficial image of strength and independence.

I'd take "Goddess save me" over that any day.

Sometimes neglecting a character is healthier than forcing a contrived image of power or autonomy.

Being a long term Rogue fan has made me more antagonistic to the slop that is Legacy, even if she's being portrayed as "strong, independent, ethical, etc."

I did enjoy that Sentinel arc though. It was passable.

Claremont wrote a strong Storm in Xtreme, I'll give it that, but that series was fraught with other problems... I generally found it to be an overwrought action adventure that didn't seem to know where it was going. It was made all the more difficult to accept because Morrison's run was going on at the same time.

Maybe Wood is writing the best Storm since Claremont, but if that isn't saying much, maybe it's not worth saying.

Well then i guess this comes down to what fans really look for in characters, the actual values. You're quite right, though, she did lead with confidence and conviction, but as you're aware, the times have have changed. Drastically and far beyond repair.

And, as far as i'm concerned, he very much did. Yes, it can be argued that the Schism between Scott and Logan has nothing to do with the Proto-Mutant issue so it was an asinine thing for Storm to just lie to him, but in truth, she made it quite clear why she did what she had to do. Proto-Mutants are a serious issue, as silly as that may sound, Wolverine and Scott both being leaders of their own halves of Mutantkind would jump at the first opportunity they had to get to the bottom of this, there's still a Schism and they're still at odds, something as crucial to Mutants as this could possibly cut to their deep divide more than had been done so, being the moral compass of the Blue Side, she had to prevent that. It was more for her biding time to gather more information of the subject that SHE herself had discovered, instead of telling Scott, who would have shoved her out the picture and took full control of the situation himself faster than you could say "Mutant" and you know it. Telling anyone linked to the Blue or Yellow side would have been a fatal mistake on her part, because that would bring more heads into the situation that she would have anticipated, and that would be down-right stupid.

In short:

In the long run, telling him the moment she had found out would have been idiotic, because then they wouldn't have even found Ister, the Proto-Mutant that Illyana came to see. Mainly because, like i said before, Scott would have barged in and ran the show himself, anyways, has the man not lied and kept things from his fellow teammates himself ? He's already got enough things on his plate, it certainly wouldn't make sense to add more hassle. She had to make the decision herself, and in the end, it was for the best. They had only literally just scratched the surface with those terminal monsters popping up everywhere, she, with her team, needed to find more clues and answers before bringing other people into the equation. Please remember, this is the same Storm who kept Destinies Diaries a secret from Charles Xavier. This current instance shouldn't be much of a suprise.

The scan above also shows character development for Storm, on Wood's part. Mainly because in the past, Storm had made plenty of "on the spot decisions" but in the long run, those decisions back-fired and turnt out fatally (Mutant Massacre, Fall Of The Mutants). This time around, she's taking what time she has availabel, to think things through instead of running straight into the situation. It was the better thing to do, regardless of that, Storm is in a nature, a preachy and independent person, but when the situation calls for looking at what's right infront of her, then she will do it.

And to counter that "superficial image of strength and independence" coment, if it's of any consolation, she did, in the end, tell Scott.

This wasn't arrogance or pride, it was thorough thinking. It's a trait that the writers (excluding Yost and for the majority, Ellis) above have failed to hit time and time again, not that she needs to be rough, hard-headed and assertive, but that there is a woman who thinks things through and won't hesitate to be sneaky when need be, instead of flinging the usual lightning bolt and making the false "Goddess" claim.

What you're saying is much more specific and purposeful than what Wood is saying in that panel. He's being terribly vague, unnecessarily so for a leader that has to be a good communicator. It's not a terribly difficult thing to insert or infer, as it gives the scene and her actions more purpose, and if Wood was bothering to do a decent job writing this book, perhaps what he would have written. You even could have been more specific and have said that either side would devolve into using this as a political weapon

I doubt most readers of this issue would even be aware of 213 or 227. I don't recall him giving her a panel where she reflects on being too impulsive in her leadership in the past, so I'm not able to give him the credit for having that be a considered and insightful decision by design.

With a good writer, you don't have to step outside the comic to force the inference of this stuff. I never have to do this while reading Uncanny X-Force. If I leave the characters in the scene, it's not to make sense of their motivations, which are clear and thoughtfully laid out, it's to conceptually play with the thematic ethics issues that run through the series. With a good writer, who has a commitment to a series, you have more than a forced singular case of character development with which to defend a series.

Like, by the end of Sandman, Gaiman is bringing his his readers to tears with single lines of dialogue text. He can do this because he's crafted believable characters so organic that we can hear the entire history which precedes them in a single line. That's what good writing and character development sounds like. Maybe that's a high standard to hold anyone to, but what are standards for? There's nothing even approaching that here. Somehow Remender is managing it. Hell, even the end of Messiah Complex achieved this, and I'm not talking about Xavier getting shot in the head for five minutes.

Hmmm.

Well, if we are going to base things off of what i said, then, so be it. Excellent debate, by the way.

As you can see, i do strongly believe that Wood got the point he was trying to get across, across. And i disagree that any word which was ushered by Storm to back up her reasons for not letting Scott in on the situation, were vague.

Like so:

Above, when i said that she wasn't going to rush head-on into the situation with telling Scott, without gathering the sufficient amount of information needed ? That's more or less, what she's saying there. "I'm not ready to bring Scott in until we know what we're dealing with", it's right there. A wiser decision and a splendid reason, i'd say.
Emphasis on that first panel, remember when i said that this was a matter that SHE had stumbled upon first ? Yeah, "-Seeing these things first hand, we are the first responders." being the leader of the Security Team, that, in itself, grants her more than enough reason to take a more vigourous approach. What good of a leader would she-or any one else be- if the news was reported to the man in charge right there and then ? A trusted one ? Yes. A wise one ? No.

Following on from that panel, Piotr threatened her first. Undermining her leadership capabilities because of a decision she made, a better decision. Considering the fact that she's lead the X-Men for years, she's been through things like this, she's learnt from them, not telling Scott was avoiding a mistake she's made one time too many. She was responding in kind.

It's very much similar to this occurence:

She did what she thought best (at the time), someone else decided to question that (Scott, this time around), she demonstrated why it is in her decision to do what she pleases, when she pleases, for the good of her team and everyone else, she leads the X-Men. If you think it some sort of superfical form of indepenced, think not, it's plain Storm.

Not to stray off topic. Going back to X-Men #32's scan, the third panel, where she explains the gravity of the situation, further justifiying her actions and why she need not tell Scott so soon. That scene and the one prior to it, were one of the most compelling parts of the whole issue, just saying. I'd say she was somewhat jumping to conclusions in saying that Scott would possibly use it as a propaganda tool, but then, look at how he's been handling Hope and her case (excluding the mess that is AvX). Then she also goes to include "anyone" else, think about it. As stated before, it's a serious situation. She's not fully aware of what they were dealing and what was at stake, so what would telling Scott do ? He's a control-freak and just about everyone who is anyone is aware of that.

Her motives behind the actions, to me, anyways, were not that difficult to infer. I mean, like, she said why she did what she did...right there.

#36 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@stambo42 said:

Really? I found the series kind of boring and directionless...

#37 Edited by stambo42 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

Above, when i said that she wasn't going to rush head-on into the situation with telling Scott, without gathering the sufficient amount of information needed ? That's more or less, what she's saying there. "I'm not ready to bring Scott in until we know what we're dealing with", it's right there. A wiser decision and a splendid reason, i'd say.
Emphasis on that first panel, remember when i said that this was a matter that SHE had stumbled upon first ? Yeah, "-Seeing these things first hand, we are the first responders." being the leader of the Security Team, that, in itself, grants her more than enough reason to take a more vigourous approach. What good of a leader would she-or any one else be- if the news was reported to the man in charge right there and then ? A trusted one ? Yes. A wise one ? No.

@stambo42 said:

@AgeofHurricane said:

@stambo42 said:

@AgeofHurricane said:

@stambo42 said:

Um, the guy has been on for all of five issues, how exactly are we crediting him with the best Storm since Claremont? Where is this great characterization? Domino feels like a nothing that can be pushed any direction regardless of whether it even serves the plot, Storm makes a big stink about going behind Cyclops's back without ever justifying why she feels she can't trust him (it would not be hard to do with a little effort, but did not happen, regardless) I get nothing from his Psylocke or Pixie.... I think Colossus might make it the best out of this in his questioning of Storm's lack of forthrightness with Cyclops... at least Wood remembered that loyalty and small town honesty is part of his character... though even he feels thinly written. With flat characters serving an unrealized plot, this feels like a writer who knows he signed up for a short tenure failing to apply himself to characters and plots he knows he won't have time to develop, or the power to change. I'm no fan boy, but I miss a relevant Storm. I certainly haven't found her here.

In terms of characterization, let's take look back at the people who have had the oppurtunity of handling the character since Claremont and even Brubaker's departure, last 5 years.

Hudlin - Didn't do much for the character after the marriage other than give other X-Writers at the time, the petty reason that they weren't allowed to use her because she was married. Completely ignored all prior development, and, her sole purpose was to be the BP's wife. That's it. He did have some impressive power showings, which writers after failed to demonstrate, but in the end, the character was not there, she just the Black Panther's black wife.

Fraction - Bringing in the horrible reign of X-Men mis-treatment for three years until Gillen came. Wrote the character as a preachy Goddess who served no purpose other than denouncing lesser beings for not following certain orders, or, for the most part, as wallpaper. There was that one scene with Emma but that's more or less, it. He found her more intriguing when she was placed somewhere in the background flinging useless lightning bolts.

Ellis - He's a fantastic writer and i'll give him credit where it's due, but i never found his portrayal as compelling as Wood's. He did though, pull the character from limbo and feature her in his run of Astonishing X-Men, where she was portrayed well...for the most part. I will forever be in his debt for that. I liked how he brought the Storm/Cyclops rivalry thing back, but it felt almost as if Storm had to take the back-seat in order to show readers that Cyclops was entering a new age of "I'm tired of this consant BS so nobody question my authority and actions or you're off the team". I'm taking this from that scene where she rejoined the team and Cyke basically shut her up because of her moralistic values, her priorities were for the life then that of the mission itself, which is understandable, but like i said, Cyke had to shut her up, compare that to the Storm we're getting now with Wood, who is actually willing to take the risks for as long as it benefits "The Cause". I'm not saying this "shut Storm up" thing is a taboo, but if you're going to reply to that, please do refer to Claremont's issues.

Yost - Wrote one of the best Storm stories--if not one of the best X-Stories--of that time. X-Men: Worlds Apart. Chracterization was on point as well as the power showings and character moments in-between, honestly, there is absolutely nothing i can nit-pick from his take, so he's not exactly a factor in this. Probably did have the best portrayal of the character since Claremont, along with Wood. But there were three other crooks who did, too.

Gischler - Good man. Good stories for the most part and wrote a good Storm. He even made it clear that he was a big fan of the character which is why he had her appear in Adjectiveless prior to #30 anytime he could. Realistically speaking, there was no character devlopment, Wood and Gischler wrote her in the same series, and it's more than clear who did more. Gischler wrote her as a leader, while Wood wrote her as much more than that.

Gillen - Had Storm retain a place amongst his Extinction Team, which was good for the character, she had a nice moment in the first issue of Uncanny Vol.2 and had some nice parts in Tabula Rasa, then that was it. His depiction of the character wasn't far off from Fraction's, in the preachy sense, there were no deferences except for analogies. It didn't exactly look as if he was all too invested in the character, as well. She was there because she was there. Didn't develop her and also had her shoot lightning when neccessary except for that one issue in the TR arc. That's it. And if you've seen Uncanny X-Men #17, you'll know what i'm talking about. He said her role on the team was to be the moral compass, he did not and i repeat: did not deliver on that. She was the preachy not-Goddess. Nothing more nothing less. Gillen, was far more invested in the villians that he was featuring more so than the characters he had play with, which is why his run, imo, will be extremely forgettable if character development's what you're looking for.

(not mentioning Bendis because that honestly serves no point to the debate.)

Wood - The man in question. Before we got a taste of what he had in store for the character, his words were "-Though i am interested in getting a good handle on Storm" and with #30, many of us could see why. There's nothing to ponder in why the Storm fans, you know, fans of the character who--not to sound pretentious or conceited--know the character in and out, were more than exultant to see that there actually was a writer in Marvel, who actually did their research, to actually write a character. From what's been written, his representation is almost, if not completely, identical to Claremont's. She's a leader, a tactician, an analyzer of situations with immense gravity, and, the actual moral compass, a concept which Gillen introduced but failed to deliver on. We have the woman who's not afraid to take risks and leave the bigger men out of the loop (analogous to Storm taking her own team of X-Men to create the X-Treme X-Men, unbeknownst to everyone but the members of her team, written by Claremont, by the way.), we have a writer, who can deliver in team conflicts without everything looking like it was forced, or, just no team conflicts at all and it's simply follow the Dictator (current Uncanny X-Men). We have a woman who does reconsider her actions in turn, second guessing herself (Mutant Massacre as well as X-Treme X-Men. Written by Claremont.) as well as a writer who induces slightly different take on characters, but in the long run, it, for the most part, fails to leave anything else to be desired.

Apoogies, but i'd much rather have this:

Over this:

Any day of the week, wouldn't you ? Feel free to call me a rabid fan, or a silly Storm fanboy or w.e, but i believe that's as narrow as it gets.

Yeah. Best Storm since Claremont. And if i may add, one of the best X-Titles on the stands atm imo, but, as has been evidenced, that's very arguable.

I'll be frank and say I haven't read most of those runs. I was away at college, and just bought TPBs of things like Messiah Complex. I do however own pretty much every X-men issue published between 1998 and 2004 (uncanny, new, xtreme, you name it) and most of the X-men titles published in the past year or so. I also have the majority Uncanny and adjectiveless from between 1987 and 1993. I'll be blunt though, and say that though I can't compare the quality of Wood's five issues with everything you've listed, context doesn't matter when something is just written poorly or without interest. You seem to be suggesting that simply by writing her as more aggressive and assertive, he's written her better. There is a clear difference between your two scans, but I think what you may be missing is a matter of the quality that has to back up the behavior we may desire in our characters. It's the difference between saying and showing. In the late 80s Storm didn't have to make childish threats to her teammates to get them to follow. She led with confidence and conviction, and until She got blown out of the sky by Havok and turned into an eight year old kid, she did pretty well for herself. Some of her best work was done without powers at all.

As I've stated before, Wood doesn't really justify why Ororo is taking these actions. It shouldn't be too hard to justify going behind Cyclops's back these days... but he fails to indicate a reason, (as a leader, she has some responsibility to provide this to her followers) and makes her come off as at best, petty. Scott may be a prick, but at least his been well written and fleshed out as such. He's a very believable asshole, and one who in the end is a bit tragic for the circumstances that have led him to this kind of leadership. In not qualifying and justifying her decision to cut him out of the loop, Wood undermines her integrity. It's as if he's looking for some artificial plot device to make her more independent. Clearly there is an audience for this, but at least have the respect to flesh it out and make it the believable actions of a responsible leader. I don't see that.

What Wood has given us is an insulting and superficial image of strength and independence.

I'd take "Goddess save me" over that any day.

Sometimes neglecting a character is healthier than forcing a contrived image of power or autonomy.

Being a long term Rogue fan has made me more antagonistic to the slop that is Legacy, even if she's being portrayed as "strong, independent, ethical, etc."

I did enjoy that Sentinel arc though. It was passable.

Claremont wrote a strong Storm in Xtreme, I'll give it that, but that series was fraught with other problems... I generally found it to be an overwrought action adventure that didn't seem to know where it was going. It was made all the more difficult to accept because Morrison's run was going on at the same time.

Maybe Wood is writing the best Storm since Claremont, but if that isn't saying much, maybe it's not worth saying.

Well then i guess this comes down to what fans really look for in characters, the actual values. You're quite right, though, she did lead with confidence and conviction, but as you're aware, the times have have changed. Drastically and far beyond repair.

And, as far as i'm concerned, he very much did. Yes, it can be argued that the Schism between Scott and Logan has nothing to do with the Proto-Mutant issue so it was an asinine thing for Storm to just lie to him, but in truth, she made it quite clear why she did what she had to do. Proto-Mutants are a serious issue, as silly as that may sound, Wolverine and Scott both being leaders of their own halves of Mutantkind would jump at the first opportunity they had to get to the bottom of this, there's still a Schism and they're still at odds, something as crucial to Mutants as this could possibly cut to their deep divide more than had been done so, being the moral compass of the Blue Side, she had to prevent that. It was more for her biding time to gather more information of the subject that SHE herself had discovered, instead of telling Scott, who would have shoved her out the picture and took full control of the situation himself faster than you could say "Mutant" and you know it. Telling anyone linked to the Blue or Yellow side would have been a fatal mistake on her part, because that would bring more heads into the situation that she would have anticipated, and that would be down-right stupid.

In short:

In the long run, telling him the moment she had found out would have been idiotic, because then they wouldn't have even found Ister, the Proto-Mutant that Illyana came to see. Mainly because, like i said before, Scott would have barged in and ran the show himself, anyways, has the man not lied and kept things from his fellow teammates himself ? He's already got enough things on his plate, it certainly wouldn't make sense to add more hassle. She had to make the decision herself, and in the end, it was for the best. They had only literally just scratched the surface with those terminal monsters popping up everywhere, she, with her team, needed to find more clues and answers before bringing other people into the equation. Please remember, this is the same Storm who kept Destinies Diaries a secret from Charles Xavier. This current instance shouldn't be much of a suprise.

The scan above also shows character development for Storm, on Wood's part. Mainly because in the past, Storm had made plenty of "on the spot decisions" but in the long run, those decisions back-fired and turnt out fatally (Mutant Massacre, Fall Of The Mutants). This time around, she's taking what time she has availabel, to think things through instead of running straight into the situation. It was the better thing to do, regardless of that, Storm is in a nature, a preachy and independent person, but when the situation calls for looking at what's right infront of her, then she will do it.

And to counter that "superficial image of strength and independence" coment, if it's of any consolation, she did, in the end, tell Scott.

This wasn't arrogance or pride, it was thorough thinking. It's a trait that the writers (excluding Yost and for the majority, Ellis) above have failed to hit time and time again, not that she needs to be rough, hard-headed and assertive, but that there is a woman who thinks things through and won't hesitate to be sneaky when need be, instead of flinging the usual lightning bolt and making the false "Goddess" claim.

What you're saying is much more specific and purposeful than what Wood is saying in that panel. He's being terribly vague, unnecessarily so for a leader that has to be a good communicator. It's not a terribly difficult thing to insert or infer, as it gives the scene and her actions more purpose, and if Wood was bothering to do a decent job writing this book, perhaps what he would have written. You even could have been more specific and have said that either side would devolve into using this as a political weapon

I doubt most readers of this issue would even be aware of 213 or 227. I don't recall him giving her a panel where she reflects on being too impulsive in her leadership in the past, so I'm not able to give him the credit for having that be a considered and insightful decision by design.

With a good writer, you don't have to step outside the comic to force the inference of this stuff. I never have to do this while reading Uncanny X-Force. If I leave the characters in the scene, it's not to make sense of their motivations, which are clear and thoughtfully laid out, it's to conceptually play with the thematic ethics issues that run through the series. With a good writer, who has a commitment to a series, you have more than a forced singular case of character development with which to defend a series.

Like, by the end of Sandman, Gaiman is bringing his his readers to tears with single lines of dialogue text. He can do this because he's crafted believable characters so organic that we can hear the entire history which precedes them in a single line. That's what good writing and character development sounds like. Maybe that's a high standard to hold anyone to, but what are standards for? There's nothing even approaching that here. Somehow Remender is managing it. Hell, even the end of Messiah Complex achieved this, and I'm not talking about Xavier getting shot in the head for five minutes.

Hmmm.

Well, if we are going to base things off of what i said, then, so be it. Excellent debate, by the way.

As you can see, i do strongly believe that Wood got the point he was trying to get across, across. And i disagree that any word which was ushered by Storm to back up her reasons for not letting Scott in on the situation, were vague.

Like so:

Following on from that panel, Piotr threatened her first. Undermining her leadership capabilities because of a decision she made, a better decision. Considering the fact that she's lead the X-Men for years, she's been through things like this, she's learnt from them, not telling Scott was avoiding a mistake she's made one time too many. She was responding in kind.

It's very much similar to this occurence:

She did what she thought best (at the time), someone else decided to question that (Scott, this time around), she demonstrated why it is in her decision to do what she pleases, when she pleases, for the good of her team and everyone else, she leads the X-Men. If you think it some sort of superfical form of indepenced, think not, it's plain Storm.

Not to stray off topic. Going back to X-Men #32's scan, the third panel, where she explains the gravity of the situation, further justifiying her actions and why she need not tell Scott so soon. That scene and the one prior to it, were one of the most compelling parts of the whole issue, just saying. I'd say she was somewhat jumping to conclusions in saying that Scott would possibly use it as a propaganda tool, but then, look at how he's been handling Hope and her case (excluding the mess that is AvX). Then she also goes to include "anyone" else, think about it. As stated before, it's a serious situation. She's not fully aware of what they were dealing and what was at stake, so what would telling Scott do ? He's a control-freak and just about everyone who is anyone is aware of that.

Her motives behind the actions, to me, anyways, were not that difficult to infer. I mean, like, she said why she did what she did...right there.

If I'm not approaching you point for point, it's because my concerns are not your concerns. You seem most interested in the public image of your favorite character, where as I from the start have been concerned with the quality of writing in the book. I'm referencing other series and writers to try and exemplify what good character development smells like, since character development is one factor that contributes to or detracts from the quality of a book.You're not going to convince me that her reasons for going behind Scotts back were any better written or realized than anything else in the book, I'm not denying that reasons were given unless I did so in hyperbole, they just weren't very good or realized reasons (from a storytelling perspective). They felt contrived for a transparent plot device. I'm also not going to dig any deeper into a debate over this, I've paintings to finish and panels to lay-out.

...but the next time you want to pick an image of Storm's great leadership, you might try one where she isn't under some demonic influence during Inferno. It makes it look like you think Storm is only being written true to character when picking ridiculous grounds to get authoritarian on.

#38 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@stambo42: ...Yeah.

#39 Posted by Rickbarry (1761 posts) - - Show Bio

@stambo42: I think you're being a tad hard on the storyline that Wood is writing. Storm and Scott have had a great deal of stress on their relationship since Schism, but in the end she stayed to help a friend out. It's obvious she's tired of running things his way. Now, by itself, I don't think it'd be all that large of an issue, but Piotr is dogging her every move. I don't necessarily think it's a show of how confident and cool Storm can be in leadership as much as it's showing that she's cracking a little under the pressure of both Scott and Piotr. *Shrugs* I can't say I'm a huge fan of the protomutant storyline, but I like the characters here. It works for me and it doesn't seem to work for you. Such is life.

#40 Posted by Umbraa (915 posts) - - Show Bio

Truth is sales are declining each month after Wood's Storm centric book first issue had a slight bump in sales, then decline from then on...Gischler actually sold more when Storm was not central to the book.@Age, your acention about Hudlin is total b.s, already refuted by Brevoort saying that X-writers didn't want to tell that Story with Storm, Hudlin did not stop X-writers doing anything. Hudlin wasn't the greatest, by any stretch but he got Storm into the larger MU when she was shut out by the two most influential X-men books in the modern era...Morrison and Whedon both did not use her in their runs..that's a hard fact...as much as I like Wood, it think things are a little over blown here. Mcduffie wrote a better Storm IMHO, a more relatable, powerful Storm...for example it's funny how the same people bashed Hudlin for not having Storm doing a EMP verse Doom and Lavitera during CW...yet Wood gets a pass when Nemesis plane did one verses the proto-mutant sea monsters and not Storm....good run loved the Premise, liked his writing, but the title didn't really matter in the scheme of things..and that's never a good thing. Mega plot wise, nothing..

#41 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Umbraa said:

Truth is sales are declining each month after Wood's Storm centric book first issue had a slight bump in sales, then decline from then on...Gischler actually sold more when Storm was not central to the book.@Age, your acention about Hudlin is total b.s, already refuted by Brevoort saying that X-writers didn't want to tell that Story with Storm, Hudlin did not stop X-writers doing anything. Hudlin wasn't the greatest, by any stretch but he got Storm into the larger MU when she was shut out by the two most influential X-men books in the modern era...Morrison and Whedon both did not use her in their runs..that's a hard fact...as much as I like Wood, it think things are a little over blown here. Mcduffie wrote a better Storm IMHO, a more relatable, powerful Storm...for example it's funny how the same people bashed Hudlin for not having Storm doing a EMP verse Doom and Lavitera during CW...yet Wood gets a pass when Nemesis plane did one verses the proto-mutant sea monsters and not Storm....good run loved the Premise, liked his writing, but the title didn't really matter in the scheme of things..and that's never a good thing. Mega plot wise, nothing..

On the contrary, sales have nothing to do with whether a title stays or not, Uncanny X-Men is a big testament to that. Yeah, would you like to actually read, clearly, what was said above about Hudlin ? Thanks. Eh, not trying to be rude or anything, but since you've jumped at me without any good context, i'll quote myself for you - "Didn't do much for the character after the marriage other than give other X-Writers at the time, the petty reason that they weren't allowed to use her because she was married." Lemme reword that, petty excuse. Please note: i was not being serious, i was just joking, so you can calm down because i'm not the first person who's said that.

No one's bashing Hudlin about any power feat, because i read the run myself and he did give her good power showings, but that has nothing to do with the actual point. Wood was trying to showcase the jet's functions, no big inference to make if you're actually concerned about the story instead of who gets a pass and who doesn't, you know ?

Astonishing, other than the marriage, doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things, nor X-Factor or Gambit or X-Treme X-Men for the time being, which applies to this title as well, so what's your point again ?

:)

#42 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@Genki_Sudo said:

@White Mage said:

A SOLID character being written in a way that is 2 steps below "lackluster" by writers who should know better doesn't exactly help your statement though. Storm was written the way she SHOULD HAVE been written under Brian Wood's pen. Just about everyone who has seen her portrayal/development under Claremont agrees with this. And, again, I've only heard people celebrating over a writer actually doing his research. I don't really see how you could be prepared to make a statement that it's karma against Storm fans, when Storm's many years of history support the idea that she is a badass in her own right, with T'challa being a bonus.

It would take EFFORT for someone to come in and just f*ck up her portrayal after Brian leaves. So my hopes and expectations aren't exactly unrealistic. It's her ensemble book anyway.

Considering how lackluster she was being written outside of Brian's books in the same x-verse( and you can argue if Wood's run was even as great as folks like yourself claim it to be ) I have been pointing out that how the Wood safety net some fans have been clinging to has been yanked away and I simply wished you guys luck and retracted my statements about karma but you're fear is blatant that even yourself knows what might be around the corner for Ms. Munroe since that supposed obstacle is gone.

You claim there's nothing to worry so why are you worrying?

........................................................................Ok

I wasn't worrying. That was pretty clear actually. The fact is your comment had an element of "douchebaggery" that wasn't really necessary to begin with. And I said that it would take effort for a writer to drop the ball on her portrayal in THAT book, because her presence on that team is considerably strong. Does that sound worried to you?

#43 Posted by danhimself (22448 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know why anyone is upset...it's not like he did anything with the title...his run has been nothing but boring

Online
#44 Posted by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

@danhimself said:

I don't know why anyone is upset...it's not like he did anything with the title...his run has been nothing but boring

#45 Posted by Genki_Sudo (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@White Mage said:

I wasn't worrying. That was pretty clear actually. The fact is your comment had an element of "douchebaggery" that wasn't really necessary to begin with. And I said that it would take effort for a writer to drop the ball on her portrayal in THAT book, because her presence on that team is considerably strong. Does that sound worried to you?

It does and it's very much douche bag in tone that you accuse me off in your blind faith that all is well

#46 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@Genki_Sudo said:

@White Mage said:

I wasn't worrying. That was pretty clear actually. The fact is your comment had an element of "douchebaggery" that wasn't really necessary to begin with. And I said that it would take effort for a writer to drop the ball on her portrayal in THAT book, because her presence on that team is considerably strong. Does that sound worried to you?

It does and it's very much douche bag in tone that you accuse me off in your blind faith that all is well

Blind faith? She was leader/had a prominent role BEFORE Brian Wood came along...so no, it's not blind faith. It's consistency. And I'm standing by my claim that your comment had elements (of a "douchey" quality) that were uncalled for.

#47 Posted by Genki_Sudo (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@White Mage said:

Blind faith? She was leader/had a prominent role BEFORE Brian Wood came along...so no, it's not blind faith. It's consistency. And I'm standing by my claim that your comment had elements (of a "douchey" quality) that were uncalled for.

She was wallpaper because there's a big gap between Xtreme and now with the x-books as she was elsewhere in teh greater Marvel U, if you would get off your elitist high horse( we both know you won't ) you would know that but blind faith does keep one.....what's the word.....blind

#48 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

Shame I really enjoyed the series as both a Storm and Colossus fan. It was nice to see characters that aren't given as much character focus have some meaningful dialouge that showed conviction and emotion. They each had opinions and I really enjoyed that. The story moved slow at times, but seeing my favorite X-Men have some meaningful characterization more than made up for it. I really don't see why people are being hard on it or attacking the characterization of the characters when several of these characters have seen little to none, but thats your opinion and all that.

#49 Posted by White Mage (18740 posts) - - Show Bio

@Genki_Sudo said:

@White Mage said:

Blind faith? She was leader/had a prominent role BEFORE Brian Wood came along...so no, it's not blind faith. It's consistency. And I'm standing by my claim that your comment had elements (of a "douchey" quality) that were uncalled for.

She was wallpaper because there's a big gap between Xtreme and now with the x-books as she was elsewhere in teh greater Marvel U, if you would get off your elitist high horse( we both know you won't ) you would know that but blind faith does keep one.....what's the word.....blind

I ride my elitist high horse with pride....the only reason I carry a whip is so that I can ride up to people like you, and attempt to hit you with it...It doesn't matter if it connects or not....just know that I'm most definitely willing to swing it

Her dialogue, Her leadership role (which was BEFORE Wood), and her screen time are not in danger IN THIS BOOK....which you can't refute with anything other than the same douchey comments you tried to make earlier....which failed, for reasons already given

Also, since I'm clearly a WORRIED high horse rider, I'd suggest you stay out of my path, as you never know what my nerves are capable of...matter of fact, stay in it.......my whip is in the mood for a lashin...

#50 Posted by Genki_Sudo (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Good for you, it's nice when douche bags admit to being one instead of crying fowl and being whiny scary douche bags, embrace you elitist douche bag that couldn't hit a damn thing with directions and said target being as still as a piece of wood planted dead in the ground.

You forget that before Wood again what was she doing in the X-Books? Again you miss that there is a huge gap between Xtreme and Wood's book, you think it's coincidence that after Wood's book she's now co-featuring in a Psylocke book? Or are you just going to turn a blind eye and ignore that as well because hey she's just in the book as you spin this in your sad attempt to go "oh woe is me the mean poster is being mean to me, WAH! WAH! WAH!"

I appreciate you coming on to me but you do nothing for me but thanks anyway, elitest who pretend to be dominatrix just reek of fakness

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