Are the X-Men running out of bad guys?

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#1 Posted by judasnixon (8039 posts) - - Show Bio

With many of the X-Villains dead or on the side of the angels now. Do you think the X-Men are running a little low on enemies?   

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#2 Posted by Decoy Elite (30160 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes they actually are. Mostly because of Decimation which took down a huge chunk of their mutant villains.

#3 Posted by John Valentine (16337 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, yes they are.

#4 Posted by dangallant984 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon: I'm not sure how many villains are actually "on the side of the angels", as you say.

Magneto? maybe you could count Emma, but she's been an X-man now for longer than she was ever a villain. did you have anyone else in mind?

Also, as we've seen with, say, Avalanche, lots of mutants seemed to have regained their powers. And characters like Sinister, Sabertooth and Mystique (all previously presumed dead) have been recently shown to be still alive.

That said, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing some new ones.

#5 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3793 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes. It's gotten so bad that the writers have to demonize certain X-Men in order to make new villains.

#6 Posted by x_29 (2375 posts) - - Show Bio

It does appear to be that way.

#7 Posted by McKlayn (1175 posts) - - Show Bio

Avalanche was never depowered he was living on utopia working in a bar, and yes they have taken a hit but with the new AVX coming of mutants it should be fine alot of new baddies

PS: Mutants who lost thier powers in M day did not regain powers via AVX only new mutants were created - Know it all Neal

#8 Posted by cattlebattle (14079 posts) - - Show Bio

They have a plethora of villains. Its just that some were corny one shots or just forgotten about.

#9 Posted by Rabbitearsblog (6484 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm starting to think that they are running out of bad guys since they seem intent on making some of the X-Men go against each other.

#10 Posted by Madame_Mist (1337 posts) - - Show Bio

Any new Mutant enemies would have to be teenagers now since the X gene is now activating.

#11 Posted by Billy Batson (59022 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah, they just got Bendis as their writer.
BB

#12 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3793 posts) - - Show Bio

@Madame_Mist said:

Any new Mutant enemies would have to be teenagers now since the X gene is now activating.

Yes, but new villains could be Mutates, Sentinels or other super/metahumans that just have it out for them. They just need a writer that can develop a villain that isn't lame.

@Billy Batson said:

Nah, they just got Bendis as their writer.
BB

bwahaha

#13 Posted by Solarflare32 (399 posts) - - Show Bio

Proteus vs legion in the pages of legacy soon

#14 Posted by poisonfleur (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon said:

With many of the X-Villains dead or on the side of the angels now. Do you think the X-Men are running a little low on enemies?

Yes

#15 Posted by unicornpuncher (445 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly really liked when the Xmen stopped resuing the same villans and made new ones (right around the start of Xforce V2 after messiah complex)

I get tired of constantly seeing shadow king, apocalyspe, sinister and sabretooth as the bad guys on rotation. I would like to see more stuff like the purifiers, leper queen and sisterhood of evil mutants. Those were fresh and well thought out ideas.

#16 Posted by Decoy Elite (30160 posts) - - Show Bio
@Billy Batson said:

Nah, they just got Bendis as their writer.
BB

That's probably part of it.  
Bendis is consistently bad at making good villains. Even in his good stuff. 
#17 Posted by dangallant984 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbitearsblog said:

I'm starting to think that they are running out of bad guys since they seem intent on making some of the X-Men go against each other.

to be fair, the X-men have been fighting with each other since the late seventies, and splitting into separate factions since the mid eighties. You could even make a case for Mystique's Brotherhood being the original X-force, really..

#18 Posted by Decoy Elite (30160 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem is Marvel can't let a new villain live for more than a few issues.  
They have this obsession with killing any character who doesn't have a stable fan base, which most new villains can't get.

#19 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3793 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

@Billy Batson said:

Nah, they just got Bendis as their writer.
BB

That's probably part of it. Bendis is consistently bad at making good villains. Even in his good stuff.

I think he concentrates on finding bad or negative traits in his protagonists, so it's hard for him to make a justifiable villain.

#20 Posted by Decoy Elite (30160 posts) - - Show Bio
@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@Decoy Elite said:

@Billy Batson said:

Nah, they just got Bendis as their writer.
BB

That's probably part of it. Bendis is consistently bad at making good villains. Even in his good stuff.

I think he concentrates on finding bad or negative traits in his protagonists, so it's hard for him to make a justifiable villain.

That's probably a bit of it. 
#21 Posted by JohnnyGat (1592 posts) - - Show Bio

@Madame_Mist said:

Any new Mutant enemies would have to be teenagers now since the X gene is now activating.

Wasn't Cyke's cellmate in AvX:Consequence older than a teenager? The guy mentioned when Cyke suggested he go to the school if they accepted adults.

#22 Edited by dangallant984 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

The problem is Marvel can't let a new villain live for more than a few issues. They have this obsession with killing any character who doesn't have a stable fan base, which most new villains can't get.

I don't entirely disagree with this, but, to be fair, most villains only have one or two good stories in them. Stories with true villains are generally the product of the villain's story, and once their story is over, it takes someone coming at them with a new angle to justify continuing their story or bringing them back.

The villains who are the exception to this tend to become the most classic, but they also generally develop beyond being villains in the strictest sense, like Magneto, Mystique, Destiny, actually most classic members of the Brotherhood, or characters like Silver Samurai. Notable exceptions to this would be characters like Sinister, Sabertooth, or Cassandra Nova, all of whom are basically immortal psychopaths. But really, most villains don't fit in league with either of these groups, and thus just don't have the staying power, and I think that's okay too.

#23 Posted by Decoy Elite (30160 posts) - - Show Bio
@dangallant984: I just wish they could get rid of a villain without murdering them.  
Just let them go to jail for once in case another writer thinks of a good use for the character.
#24 Posted by dangallant984 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

@dangallant984: I just wish they could get rid of a villain without murdering them. Just let them go to jail for once in case another writer thinks of a good use for the character.

yeah, agreed.

or just have them escape. In most of the best X-men stories, the villain almost always just gets away. Classicly, it was actually very rare for the X-men to achieve a clear victory over a villain or threat, as they were rarely if ever captured.

#25 Posted by Decoy Elite (30160 posts) - - Show Bio
@dangallant984 said:

@Decoy Elite said:

@dangallant984: I just wish they could get rid of a villain without murdering them. Just let them go to jail for once in case another writer thinks of a good use for the character.

yeah, agreed.

or just have them escape. In most of the best X-men stories, the villain almost always just gets away. Classicly, it was actually very rare for the X-men to achieve a clear victory over a villain or threat, as they were rarely if ever captured.

Yup, too bad we're dealing with the Marvel that saw it fit to murder Stilt-Man of all people.
#26 Posted by dangallant984 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite: ha!

No, he's back! He was in the most recent issue of Daredevil; if you haven't been following DD recently, you really should check it out; it's quite good!

#27 Posted by Decoy Elite (30160 posts) - - Show Bio
@dangallant984: I saw scans, the fight looked epic. 
But it's actually just a new guy using an upgraded version of his suit. 
The original is dead and won't be coming back. 
#28 Posted by iMarvelBoy (10 posts) - - Show Bio

The X-Men are becoming the bad guys aka Scott. And he SO much better for it!

#29 Posted by Gambit1024 (10217 posts) - - Show Bio

In all honesty, they never really had an an extensive rogues gallery to begin with. In my opinion, anyway.

#30 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3793 posts) - - Show Bio

@Decoy Elite said:

@dangallant984: I just wish they could get rid of a villain without murdering them. Just let them go to jail for once in case another writer thinks of a good use for the character.

Or have the villain win. Some of my favorite runs on the X-Men were when their enemies could justifiably beat them, requiring tactical and strategic changes.

#31 Posted by dangallant984 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

@Decoy Elite said:

@dangallant984: I just wish they could get rid of a villain without murdering them. Just let them go to jail for once in case another writer thinks of a good use for the character.

Or have the villain win. Some of my favorite runs on the X-Men were when their enemies could justifiably beat them, requiring tactical and strategic changes.

good point.

Also, I've been thinking, what ever happened to the X-cutioner?

He was a cool anti-hero/villain, sort of a combination of the Punisher (but for mutants) and that JLA villain Prometheus (who I'm pretty sure he pre-dates by a few years); I'd love to see him make a comeback.

#32 Posted by IllyanaRasputin (1175 posts) - - Show Bio

There are a lot of villains still out in the Marvel Universe that can be used as X-Men villains. If anything I'd like to see a new Brotherhood and NO not Cyclops and his mutants I mean a legit Brotherhood. It would obviously consist of Mystique, throw in Sabertooth, Toad, Lady Mastermind, Quicksilver, Pyro (he was revived in Necrosha), Empath, Mastermind (Martinique)... The list goes on.

The only problem is writers have a tendency to cripple the "villains" and try to make them good for some reason. No. Stop what you're doing and make the bad guys bad again. Hell I wouldn't even mind seeing Emma and Magneto go dark again, not like they get much respect or hero rewards from their fellow "X-Men" anyway.

#33 Edited by HAWK2916 (2374 posts) - - Show Bio

It seems that there are far more X teams and good guys than Villians. I always wanted to see Hellion go over to the darkside so to speak because of bitterness and anger. Also Surge and Rockslide. I actually like the new xmen story where Beast was creating and cloning an army to takeover. i thought he would be an excellent enemy for the Xmen as well.I would also like to see the Shiar, Kree and Skrolls along with other alien races really try to takeover again

#34 Posted by Manbehindthewires (361 posts) - - Show Bio

I think since way back, the theme of X-Men has been that the mutants are their own worst enemies. It's easy to think "they're turning on each other, they must have ran out of enemies", but it's been that way since almost the beginning. Much like in Walking Dead, they can go for nearly 30 issues without featuring a zombie attack, since the humans are a bigger danger. Now that there's a new generation of mutants coming through, there's no doubt that more factions will break out, it may even become more complex, with maybe 4 or 5 factions, fighting over what's right.

ESPECIALLY now that Bishop is back! he's always been a troublemaker!

#35 Posted by Mutant God (3188 posts) - - Show Bio

Also most of the villians were in Utopia's underground prison and after AvX Danger release them all

#36 Posted by dangallant984 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@IllyanaRasputin said:

There are a lot of villains still out in the Marvel Universe that can be used as X-Men villains. If anything I'd like to see a new Brotherhood and NO not Cyclops and his mutants I mean a legit Brotherhood. It would obviously consist of Mystique, throw in Sabertooth, Toad, Lady Mastermind, Quicksilver, Pyro (he was revived in Necrosha), Empath, Mastermind (Martinique)... The list goes on.

The only problem is writers have a tendency to cripple the "villains" and try to make them good for some reason. No. Stop what you're doing and make the bad guys bad again. Hell I wouldn't even mind seeing Emma and Magneto go dark again, not like they get much respect or hero rewards from their fellow "X-Men" anyway.

I prefer Emma and Magneto as anti-heroes, but I do think a new Brotherhood is in order, and, other than Quicksilver, I like that line up quite a bit.

#37 Posted by SoA (5706 posts) - - Show Bio

at least they still have sabretooth and mystique

#38 Posted by chasereis (803 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984: Yes indeed. Where are the new Sinisters and Apocalypses? I havent seen ANY interesting faces since the late eighties and I've seen them all. All are meh.

@PhoenixoftheTides: what you say is very true, but honestly no matter how well intentioned any new writer might be they just have this deluge of crap in continuity to deal with. I personally feel bad for the majority of the new writing staff no matter who it is with one exception. I wish we could just lock down a good writer for the core titles for just a decade (ala claremont). I really would love that.

#39 Posted by Joygirl (20795 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes. Fortunately they have themselves to fill the gaps.

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#40 Posted by DarkxSeraph (681 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm. Apoc is dead. Sinister was seemingly killed. The Hellfire Club is a joke. The Reavers are gone. Magneto is a 'good guy,' likewise some other villains.

A lot of the classics are gone, unfortunately. But, as Joygirl said above... at least they have one another to fight.

#41 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7682 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

Nah, they just got Bendis as their writer.
BB

#42 Posted by chasereis (803 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984 said:

I don't entirely disagree with this, but, to be fair, most villains only have one or two good stories in them. Stories with true villains are generally the product of the villain's story, and once their story is over, it takes someone coming at them with a new angle to justify continuing their story or bringing them back.

Actually I agree with this provisionally. That provision is that true villains has to have an ultimate goal with final resolution (much to you credit for mentioning) but the problem is that no writer is ever on a book long enough to validate his / her existence. Most villains now are like "monster of the week" kaijin. It destroys their credibility in the long run. Look how utterly MISHANDLED sinister is. He could have been better than Magneto, but the 90's and 00's have NOT been kind to his former potential. Only if writers stick around 5+ years can you gets some mileage out of a original villain.

#43 Posted by PhoenixoftheTides (3793 posts) - - Show Bio

@chasereis said:

@dangallant984: Yes indeed. Where are the new Sinisters and Apocalypses? I havent seen ANY interesting faces since the late eighties and I've seen them all. All are meh.

@PhoenixoftheTides: what you say is very true, but honestly no matter how well intentioned any new writer might be they just have this deluge of crap in continuity to deal with. I personally feel bad for the majority of the new writing staff no matter who it is with one exception. I wish we could just lock down a good writer for the core titles for just a decade (ala claremont). I really would love that.

I'd like that, too. It was the consistency that made me think that knowing the continuity of the X-Men characters was very important back in the '90s, and now that continuity is no longer as enforced, I don't really see any reason to follow story arcs that I don't like.

#44 Edited by dangallant984 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@chasereis said:

@dangallant984: Yes indeed. Where are the new Sinisters and Apocalypses? I havent seen ANY interesting faces since the late eighties and I've seen them all. All are meh.

They've had a few. I think Cassandra Nova should be considered one of the greats. Danger was a cool villain, when she was one. The nineties gave us a few hidden gems like Omega Red, Trevor Fitzroy, and one I'd really like to see come back, the X-cutioner!

#45 Posted by Girth (1053 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Apocalypse
  • Mr. Sinister
  • Brotherhood of Evil Mutants

That's about it.

#46 Posted by chasereis (803 posts) - - Show Bio

@PhoenixoftheTides: god, please don't start me on new readers jump on point BS. EVERY freaking story line has to an almost separate continuity. Do people not have a means or the capability to buy a back issue????!!! ARGH! As always good stuff 'phoenix.

@dangallant984: Danger, Omega Red, Trevor and the Upstarts (which was cooler than the damned hellfire club which they temporarily replaced then got wiped out by). On the fence about X-Cutioner. That was a decent storyline ESPECIALLY for a 90's annual crossover. However I'm very sorry my friend I must disagree on Cassandra. Fucking babies, fucking natal hand to hand combat was one the STUPIDEST things I have EVER seen ANYWHERE. The most ironic thing about it is the man who could not regain muscle strength or control in his legs time and again could have the sheer strength to literally CHOKE his "sister" to death in the womb? As an adult Xavier should have arms like Lee Haney. What in the s**t c**k f**l is that, really? How stoned do you have to be to dream s**t like that up? Good stuff DG.

#47 Posted by dangallant984 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@chasereis: was that annual a cross over? I remember it being self contained. The death of Mastermind, or so we were told..

And say what you will about her outrageous origin story (which, while a bit silly, was at least told in a really cool way), she's still one of the damn scariest X-villains ever, and completely dominates in two of the best X-men arcs ever. If you can disregard Here Comes Tomorrow (which I can), I don't think she's ever been in a bad story. For her parts in (the first half of) Morrison's and Whedon's runs alone, she will always be one of the most classic X-villains for me.

#48 Posted by chasereis (803 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984: Yes I believe it was. Dont remember which, as I have not eaten just yet but I will think of it sooner or later. Sorry bro, just don't see her being a really good X-villain. She is just some etherical wraith (dont we have one of those already? Aw screw continuity, this Grant's world baby) that is a poor fit for the X-Men much akin to the Shi'ar Imperial Guard. She would be an excellent Superman villain though.

#49 Posted by dangallant984 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@chasereis:http://notblogx.blogspot.ca/2007/11/uncanny-x-men-annual-17-1993.html

was the issue I was talking about. Self contained (albeit with a cliff hanger I don't remember being resolved), just as I remembered.

As for Cassandra Nova, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

#50 Posted by chasereis (803 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangallant984: right right right. The one where he dents in piotr's skull which is unceremoniously "fixed" in the fatal attraction Excalibur chapter. Yes, I think we'll just hold positions on Cassie Nova. Ugh that sounds like a 90's folk singer...Cassie Nova opening for Jewel or some s**t.

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