Are the X-Men racists for not allowing non-mutants?

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#1 Posted by thecomicscove (164 posts) - - Show Bio

Apologies if this question has been done or overdone before.

I have a couple of friends whose intense dislike of the X-Men seems to stem from one simple fact: they won't let non-mutants join the team. Using Spider-Man as an example, they say that they simply wouldn't let him join the team because he's not a mutant, and therefore, they're hypocrites/racists/whatever other harmful word you want to use there.

Now, I'm not aware of any specific instance when Spider-Man tried to join the X-Men, so if anyone knows about when he's tried, I'd be grateful to know. But I'm also curious if the larger question of if anyone has tried to join the team who was a non-mutant? I can't currently think of any stories where that's happened, either. What was the reaction, and the reason for it? Have the X-Men ever allowed someone one the team who wasn't a mutant (the combat teams--support personnel like Moira MacTaggart don't really count, imo).

Finally, I can't help thinking that, if it's true, there's plenty of justification for the X-Men wanting to keep their team mutants-only. But so far I'm only able to make an argument based on the fact that I feel this way. I'm having trouble stepping away from the racist/hypocrite label with any logical arguments. Anyone want to help me out here as well.

#2 Edited by cattlebattle (12669 posts) - - Show Bio

Deadpool 
Longshot 
Fantomex 
Hepzibhah 
Juggernaut 
Mimic 
 
all these guys aren't technically mutants 
 
If you mean just regular non powered humans I suppose Charlotte Jones is one

#3 Posted by maikkywin (100 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't considered Namor a mutant but thats just me .

#4 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio

Dani Moonstone 

#5 Posted by Spiderslike (652 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

Deadpool Longshot Fantomex Hepzibhah Mimic all these guys aren't technically mutants If you mean just regular non powered humans I suppose Charlotte Jones is one

Exactly as he said there are a few non-mutant members of the X-Men it's really just an uncommon belief that ALL X-Men are mutants or more precisely human-mutants. There are also the alien mutants like Warlock, also Jubilee was allowed to remain an X-Man even though she is no longer a mutant or even human for that fact. Also Wolverine's school recently accepted two new members Kid Gladiator and Warbird both members of the Shiar empire and neither one of them so far is mutant under any definition of the word. Dani Moonstar also lost her powers and was allowed to remain on the New Mutants and was even sent on missions with nothing but her wits and training.

Granted it could be argued that they were at one point mutants but if the X-Men where truly racist then they would have simply expelled them completely from their ranks. Also you have to remember the X-Men are not just a simple fighting force like the Avengers or Defenders the X-Men are really regular people forced to try to make a good situation out of what they see as a bad one. Avengers and Defenders have normal human members because they choose it a lot of X-Men are X-Men because they are mutants yes but often times they wish they could be normal and never have to fight. Once many of them loose their powers by whatever means they are often happy and leave however this is not the rule and some mutants like Rictor and Wing regret their power lose.

X-Men serve a dual purpose of not only protecting the world but educating young mutants in how to use their powers. Many X-Men are also X-Men simply to learn to use their powers and nothing more only being drawn into fights by chance. Plus the X-Men have a stronger family bond than other teams and usually if non-mutants are let in it's because they grew close to the X-Men via a shared background or emotional bond or experience. No one can just become family because you know 15 different ways to fight. It's harder to join a family than it is to say join the police or firefighters( on a philosophical level). Juggernaut is probably a good example of this as he isn't a mutant and gains his powers through magic but through his need for change and the love that his brother has for him he became an X-Man

#6 Posted by thecomicscove (164 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanx for the examples, guys. Warlock and Longshot occurred after I'd made this post, but I didn't even think about Jubilee.

, your point about the dual purpose of education as well as protecting goes a long way towards giving me a logical reason the X-Men could justify denying membership to a non-mutant. Thanx for making obvious what I should have realized. :)

Let me ask this: if someone like Spider-Man, or Punisher (I'm talking "power" sets and ability/origin here, not philosophies), or Dr. Strange were to express an earnest desire to join the X-Men, do you think the X-Men would be justified in denying them? Why or why not?

#7 Posted by cattlebattle (12669 posts) - - Show Bio
@maikkywin said:

I wouldn't considered Namor a mutant but thats just me .

I don't either, he is a mutant on a technicality, the same way Blade is a vampire, but not even.....considering Atlanteans are mutants in the same way I guess vampires could be considered mutants 
 
I hate when they call him a mutant actually, and I find he has no business being on the X-Men anyway
#8 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

They always said that ideally, they wanted the school to have a mixture of humans and mutants.

@cattlebattle said:

I don't either, he is a mutant on a technicality, the same way Blade is a vampire, but not even.....considering Atlanteans are mutants in the same way I guess vampires could be considered mutants I hate when they call him a mutant actually, and I find he has no business being on the X-Men anyway

Untrue. Namor is a mutant among atlanteans, he's unique among them. Atlanteans themselves aren't mutants.

#9 Posted by cattlebattle (12669 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:


Untrue. Namor is a mutant among atlanteans, he's unique among them. Atlanteans themselves aren't mutants.

OK, here comes the conversation that goes out of control....if he is half human half Atlantean...how does that make him a mutant exactly??...its a technicality, like if you called Blade or Hercules a mutant, 
#10 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

@ReVamp said:

Untrue. Namor is a mutant among atlanteans, he's unique among them. Atlanteans themselves aren't mutants.

OK, here comes the conversation that goes out of control....if he is half human half Atlantean...how does that make him a mutant exactly??...its a technicality, like if you called Blade or Hercules a mutant,

Having him be Half-Human and Half-Atlantean doesn't make him a mutant. Having him be a mutant makes him a mutant. I don't like it and I think its f*cking stupid, but that's the way Marvel wants it to be, so that's the way it is.

#11 Posted by cattlebattle (12669 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:

@cattlebattle said:

@ReVamp said:

Untrue. Namor is a mutant among atlanteans, he's unique among them. Atlanteans themselves aren't mutants.

OK, here comes the conversation that goes out of control....if he is half human half Atlantean...how does that make him a mutant exactly??...its a technicality, like if you called Blade or Hercules a mutant,

Having him be Half-Human and Half-Atlantean doesn't make him a mutant. Having him be a mutant makes him a mutant. I don't like it and I think its f*cking stupid, but that's the way Marvel wants it to be, so that's the way it is.

I am in the same boat as you.....and no one can ever explain it...what exactly makes him a mutant, his winged feet??
#12 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

@ReVamp said:

@cattlebattle said:

@ReVamp said:

Untrue. Namor is a mutant among atlanteans, he's unique among them. Atlanteans themselves aren't mutants.

OK, here comes the conversation that goes out of control....if he is half human half Atlantean...how does that make him a mutant exactly??...its a technicality, like if you called Blade or Hercules a mutant,

Having him be Half-Human and Half-Atlantean doesn't make him a mutant. Having him be a mutant makes him a mutant. I don't like it and I think its f*cking stupid, but that's the way Marvel wants it to be, so that's the way it is.

I am in the same boat as you.....and no one can ever explain it...what exactly makes him a mutant, his winged feet??

Well, technically its because of his Winged feat, his ability to mimic the powers of other sea animals and perhaps his enhanced strength, which I believe is greater than a normal atlantean.

#13 Edited by Soulstealer (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

@ReVamp said:

@cattlebattle said:

@ReVamp said:

Untrue. Namor is a mutant among atlanteans, he's unique among them. Atlanteans themselves aren't mutants.

OK, here comes the conversation that goes out of control....if he is half human half Atlantean...how does that make him a mutant exactly??...its a technicality, like if you called Blade or Hercules a mutant,

Having him be Half-Human and Half-Atlantean doesn't make him a mutant. Having him be a mutant makes him a mutant. I don't like it and I think its f*cking stupid, but that's the way Marvel wants it to be, so that's the way it is.

I am in the same boat as you.....and no one can ever explain it...what exactly makes him a mutant, his winged feet??

Those and the extra strength that none of his people can't match physically. It would be like saying Bruiser of the Runaways isn't a mutant because she's only really strong. So yeah it's very much a technicality, but there you go.

Edit: Haha I didn't know they kept that mimic sea creatures power. XD

#14 Posted by thecomicscove (164 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecomicscove said:

Let me ask this: if someone like Spider-Man, or Punisher (I'm talking "power" sets and ability/origin here, not philosophies), or Dr. Strange were to express an earnest desire to join the X-Men, do you think the X-Men would be justified in denying them? Why or why not?

Going to try to bring the conversation back into focus by re-asking this question. Any opinions? :)

#15 Edited by maikkywin (100 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecomicscove:

Well technically they couldn't say Spider-men isn't a mutant he had his genes or w/e mutated by a spider .

Also Strange, does magic count as a mutation - isn't it in everyone but you need special training or something to access it .

Isn't magik a magic user ? I would think it would be the same thing and shes in the x-men .

Edit : I also think racist really isn't a good term to describe what your trying to say since there are muti-racial x-men .

#16 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty much anyone else covered it. They do allow non-mutants. More, it's that non-mutants tend not to join them. It's a lot like when someone asks why a certain film company hasn't hired said actor/actress to play a certain role, when the fact is that person never even auditioned. And not because anyone doesn't want to join the X-Men really, but proxy and their own life events have placed them elsewhere.

#17 Edited by Soulstealer (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecomicscove said:

@thecomicscove said:

Let me ask this: if someone like Spider-Man, or Punisher (I'm talking "power" sets and ability/origin here, not philosophies), or Dr. Strange were to express an earnest desire to join the X-Men, do you think the X-Men would be justified in denying them? Why or why not?

Going to try to bring the conversation back into focus by re-asking this question. Any opinions? :)

I think it comes down to the X-Men not caring what your powers are. If you wanted to join and could give a good reason for them to allow it (potentially even without the reason if you're a sound minded adult), then probably. Besides Magik is both a mutant and a spellcaster as is Pixie. The X-Men aren't about where you come from so much as they're about what you choose to do with what you have. They fight for mutant rights, but likewise they believe that mutants and humans should just treat each other as people.

If my neighbor's house is on fire I should help. The details don't really matter so much.

Edit: Spider-Man says he isn't a mutant, and it happens a lot when he's with the X-men. And they look at him weird for trying to cop out of it later. "Um...not that there is anything wrong with that." XD

#18 Posted by maikkywin (100 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE: Avatar the Last Badbender .

#19 Posted by Dernman (14890 posts) - - Show Bio
@maikkywin said:

@thecomicscove:

Well technically they couldn't say Spider-men isn't a mutant he had his genes or w/e mutated by a spider .

Also Strange, does magic count as a mutation - isn't it in everyone but you need special training or something to access it .

Isn't magik a magic user ? I would think it would be the same thing and shes in the x-men .

Edit : I also think racist really isn't a good term to describe what your trying to say since there are muti-racial x-men .

It is a good term to describe it. We are talking about one race (mutants) discriminating against another race (human). 

Just because they are multi-racial does not mean they are not racist. All it takes is to discriminate against one group. 
Like if there was a group filled with Whites, Latino, and Koreans decided they don't want any Indians in the group. They would be racists.
#20 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

@maikkywin: I have no clue what that means.

#21 Posted by maikkywin (100 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE: Ahhh its just a joke forget it D:

#22 Posted by Mercy_ (92674 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by Mercy_ (92674 posts) - - Show Bio

@maikkywin said:

@thecomicscove:

Well technically they couldn't say Spider-men isn't a mutant he had his genes or w/e mutated by a spider .

Also Strange, does magic count as a mutation - isn't it in everyone but you need special training or something to access it .

Isn't magik a magic user ? I would think it would be the same thing and shes in the x-men .

Edit : I also think racist really isn't a good term to describe what your trying to say since there are muti-racial x-men .

Spider-Man is a mutate. He's not a mutant.

A mutate is somebody who has somehow mutated and gained powers, whether it's through radiation like Hulk, through a radioactive spider like Peter or Miles Morales or through cosmic radiation ala the Fantastic Four.

A mutant is somebody who has the X-Gene, making them a member of Homo Superior.

People like Doctor Strange and Iron Man who gain their powers and/or abilities through use of an outside object or power source that is not inherently part of them, are neither.

Moderator
#24 Posted by papad1992 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

ARIEL

KAVITA RAO

JUGGERNAUT

HEPZIBAH

LONGSHOT

WARLOCK

NAMOR

LOCKHEED

MIMIC

LIFEGUARD (half Shi'Ar)

SLIPSTREAM (half Shi'ar)

OMEGA SENTINEL

DANGER

CLOAK

DAGGER

FANTOMEX

#25 Posted by Steps (657 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992 said:

CLOAK

DAGGER

Why did they have to leave the Xmen, I mean yeah Doc Nemesis was being quite rude I'm pretty sure the Xmen would have accepted them with open arms. Especially since Dagger is in good relations with many of the mutants and Cyke values the assets of a teleporters.

#26 Edited by Squares (5230 posts) - - Show Bio

The X-men are a mutant-centered group because of their goals- to protect humankind as well as fellow mutants, and they occasionally tend to stress the second one to a larger degree. Membership is usually restricted to mutants because they're trying to bring the mutant race together as a group, or at least to show the human world that mutants want to help protect everyone too.

@spiderbat87: Moonstar doesn't count, she has tenure.

@maikkywin said:

@thecomicscove:

Well technically they couldn't say Spider-men isn't a mutant he had his genes or w/e mutated by a spider .

Also Strange, does magic count as a mutation - isn't it in everyone but you need special training or something to access it .

Isn't magik a magic user ? I would think it would be the same thing and shes in the x-men .

Edit : I also think racist really isn't a good term to describe what your trying to say since there are muti-racial x-men .

Magik is a mutant and a magic user. She was trained in the mystical arts by the demon lord Belasco from like seven to thirteen in the dimension of Limbo, which she can access because of her mutant ability, which is the power to create 'stepping discs' that can teleport to and from Limbo. Her magic can only be used therein.

@The Dark Huntress: Prodigy is a depowered mutant. Like Moonstar, he has tenure.

@papad1992: Ariel is a mutant. I forget whether Warlock is a mutant or not, but he has legitimate reasons for being with the X-men and has been under their protection for decades. Namor is a mutant. Lifeguard is a mutant, and her brother Slipstream is a latent mutant, so technically he doesn't count.

@Steps: In the end they chose to leave, as I recall. Dr. Nemesis didn't have the final say on the issue, and I believe Cyclops offered to let them stay.

#27 Posted by Mercy_ (92674 posts) - - Show Bio
@papad1992 Namor's a mutant.
Moderator
#28 Posted by Sempurna (62 posts) - - Show Bio
@Squares said:

I forget whether Warlock is a mutant or not

He is.
#29 Posted by jubilee042 (1353 posts) - - Show Bio

jubilee and moira mactaggart

#30 Posted by jubilee042 (1353 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992: weren't cloak and dagger retconned as mutants

#31 Posted by Squares (5230 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sempurna:Ah, thank you.

@jubilee042 said:

jubilee and moira mactaggart

Jubilee is a depowered mutant. She has tenure.

@jubilee042 said:

@papad1992: weren't cloak and dagger retconned as mutants

Nope.

#32 Posted by jubilee042 (1353 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares: strange i think i read it somewhere

#33 Posted by Steps (657 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares said:

@Steps: In the end they chose to leave, as I recall. Dr. Nemesis didn't have the final say on the issue, and I believe Cyclops offered to let them stay.

Yeah but Nemesis was pretty rude either way. They are more accepted among mutants than they are elsewhere so why not stay. But at least in the end it gave the opportunity for that spider island spinoff which was pretty sick.

#34 Posted by Sempurna (62 posts) - - Show Bio
@jubilee042 said:

@Squares: strange i think i read it somewhere

You're correct.Cloak and Dagger were retconned to be mutants.The drug that supposedly gave them powers actually awakened their latent mutant abilities.
#35 Edited by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

As others have pointed out, the X-Men (especially if you count the spinoffs) include a number of non-mutant super-humans, de-powered mutants, aliens, alien mutants, and a smattering of regular ol' humans.

The X-Men are about as indiscriminate as you can be regarding membership, and were a beacon of inclusiveness when it came to the multi-national revamped team. The OP's question is ridiculous and based on a premise that does not exist.

#36 Edited by Edgeworth_11 (4656 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

@ReVamp said:

@cattlebattle said:

@ReVamp said:

Untrue. Namor is a mutant among atlanteans, he's unique among them. Atlanteans themselves aren't mutants.

OK, here comes the conversation that goes out of control....if he is half human half Atlantean...how does that make him a mutant exactly??...its a technicality, like if you called Blade or Hercules a mutant,

Having him be Half-Human and Half-Atlantean doesn't make him a mutant. Having him be a mutant makes him a mutant. I don't like it and I think its f*cking stupid, but that's the way Marvel wants it to be, so that's the way it is.

I am in the same boat as you.....and no one can ever explain it...what exactly makes him a mutant, his winged feet??

His winged feet are his mutant powers I believe which give him flight. He has traces of the X-gene so that makes him mutant.

And ya, he is uber powerful compared to other Atlanteans and that might be due to his mutant heritage.

#37 Edited by papad1992 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@Squares said:

@papad1992: Ariel is a mutant. I forget whether Warlock is a mutant or not, but he has legitimate reasons for being with the X-men and has been under their protection for decades. Namor is a mutant. Lifeguard is a mutant, and her brother Slipstream is a latent mutant, so technically he doesn't count.

Ariel is an extraterrestrial mutant from another planet, Warlock is from another planet, Namor is a mutant (I'll give u that one), and Lifeguard and Slipstream are both half Shi'ar mutants so I don't know where that classifies them!!

#38 Posted by papad1992 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@jubilee042 said:

@papad1992: weren't cloak and dagger retconned as mutants

Mutates (they were mutated scientifically)

#39 Posted by Vance Astro (91191 posts) - - Show Bio
@papad1992 said:

@jubilee042 said:

@papad1992: weren't cloak and dagger retconned as mutants

Mutates (they were mutated scientifically)

They aren't mutates.They are mutants.They were retconned.
 
@papad1992 said:

Ariel is an extraterrestrial mutant from another planet, Warlock is from another planet, Namor is a mutant (I'll give u that one), and Lifeguard and Slipstream are both half Shi'ar mutants so I don't know where that classifies them!!

You can be both Alien and mutant.....
Moderator
#40 Posted by papad1992 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@papad1992 said:

@jubilee042 said:

@papad1992: weren't cloak and dagger retconned as mutants

Mutates (they were mutated scientifically)

They aren't mutates.They are mutants.They were retconned.

@papad1992 said:

Ariel is an extraterrestrial mutant from another planet, Warlock is from another planet, Namor is a mutant (I'll give u that one), and Lifeguard and Slipstream are both half Shi'ar mutants so I don't know where that classifies them!!

You can be both Alien and mutant.....

I thought the discussion was pertaining to human mutants, not alien mutants!

#41 Posted by Vance Astro (91191 posts) - - Show Bio
@papad1992 said:

I thought the discussion was pertaining to human mutants, not alien mutants!

Mutants are mutants.
Moderator
#42 Posted by Mutant God (3020 posts) - - Show Bio

A X-gene can appeared in any creature I think

#43 Posted by papad1992 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@papad1992 said:

I thought the discussion was pertaining to human mutants, not alien mutants!

Mutants are mutants.

I'm giving u an evil eye right now...

#44 Posted by WarMachineMarkV (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

- There have been non-mutants as part of teams and associated with the X-Men, it just has been a small percentage, not unusual considering the genesis of the team itself.

- Back when it was a single team it was really irrelevant, but now that they are trying to become a larger society, I am surprised that they have not included more humans as part of the operation to show the coexistance angle

#45 Edited by Squares (5230 posts) - - Show Bio

@papad1992 said:

@Vance Astro said:

@papad1992 said:

@jubilee042 said:

@papad1992: weren't cloak and dagger retconned as mutants

Mutates (they were mutated scientifically)

They aren't mutates.They are mutants.They were retconned.

@papad1992 said:

Ariel is an extraterrestrial mutant from another planet, Warlock is from another planet, Namor is a mutant (I'll give u that one), and Lifeguard and Slipstream are both half Shi'ar mutants so I don't know where that classifies them!!

You can be both Alien and mutant.....

I thought the discussion was pertaining to human mutants, not alien mutants!

Why would it only pertain to human mutants?

#46 Edited by Squares (5230 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sempurna said:

@jubilee042 said:

@Squares: strange i think i read it somewhere

You're correct.Cloak and Dagger were retconned to be mutants.The drug that supposedly gave them powers actually awakened their latent mutant abilities.

That was proven false.

@Steps said:

@Squares said:

@Steps: In the end they chose to leave, as I recall. Dr. Nemesis didn't have the final say on the issue, and I believe Cyclops offered to let them stay.

Yeah but Nemesis was pretty rude either way. They are more accepted among mutants than they are elsewhere so why not stay. But at least in the end it gave the opportunity for that spider island spinoff which was pretty sick.

Nemesis is rude, it's part of his character. He's not usually what one would consider polite. It seems clear that you didn't read the issue in which they chose to leave; it's the 2010 volume Cloak and Dagger, issue #1. I don't think there were any more issues after that.

#47 Posted by jhazzroucher (15501 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Men are not racists.

#48 Posted by jubilee042 (1353 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm confused

#49 Posted by papad1992 (6828 posts) - - Show Bio

@jubilee042 said:

i'm confused

me too...

#50 Posted by davidhokeyhoke (1 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecomicscove: I would just like to point out that humanity is NOT a race. It is a SPECIES. It's kind of similar to when people mix up race and ethnicity which are not the same thing. Furthermore, the X-Men don't judge based on species. They have denied membership to certain people and opened membership to others but it has nothing to do with who's a mutant and who is not but everything to do with experience and what they could add to the team. Early in their history Professor Xavier intentionally sought out mutants because his cause was to make the world safer for them and to train them in the proper use of their powers. However, he did often reach out and offer membership to people that were technically non-mutant: Spider-Man, Cloak, Dagger, Mimic. They never sought out regular humans because, well, many regular humans feared and/or hated them and they had to keep their existence secret for protective purposes. You have to remember that it was post-2000 that Xavier told the world of his mutation and that was under the influence of Cassandra Nova.

Anyway, avoiding a long rant, no the X-Men are not racists. No, they are not intolerant of separate subdivisions of the human species. Also, the term 'human race' is a popular misnomer.

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