two (more) reasons to not like X-Men: First Class

Posted by g33ky monk3y (131 posts) - - Show Bio

 


 

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Fox sucks. That’s what it boils down to. I can’t figure out why, or how, they missed the mark with the X-Men movies. I understand there is a huge history with these characters, but the Ultimate line of comics did a good job of presenting approachable stories and continuity for first time readers, and still not deviate too much (for the most part) from the source material. Anyway, with all the horrible changes that have been made with the X-Men movie franchise, the recent two kind of take the cake – for me that is. Keep in mind these are kind of spoilerish.

 

En Sabah Nur is the leader of the Hellfire Club. That’s right, Apocalypse is running the show. But no Cable. Alex Summers (Havok) is Scott’s (Cyclops) dad.

 

Okay, I’m done.

#1 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by g33ky monk3y (131 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, so I don't know how to use the spoiler feature. CV works differently here at work, so I think my work PC is messing up my post (again).
#3 Posted by g33ky monk3y (131 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame: 

…Okay, that’s pretty cool. He’s the right age and the personality fits so well. Two major problems though, Ironside has no hair and a bit out of shape. Both issues can been fixed, but Ironside with a hair piece sounds dumb, just can’t even picture it.

#4 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
@g33ky monk3y said:
" @Edamame: 

…Okay, that’s pretty cool. He’s the right age and the personality fits so well. Two major problems though, Ironside has no hair and a bit out of shape. Both issues can been fixed, but Ironside with a hair piece sounds dumb, just can’t even picture it.

"
True. Cable has white/gray hair and is well-built. 
I was thinking of Stephen Lang from Avatar.  He would be a good actor for Cable.
#5 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio

Enjoy the movie for what it is, not for the what you think it should be.  The director has said it will have a continuity reboot similar to the last Star Trek, that's why everything is messed up compared to 616.  

#6 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin said:

" Enjoy the movie for what it is, not for the what you think it should be.  The director has said it will have a continuity reboot similar to the last Star Trek, that's why everything is messed up compared to 616.   "

So they've definitely said it's a reboot? That changes things.

Still, an X-Men movie without Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine or Rogue will be a pretty tough pill to swallow.  
#7 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, I think they would rather have Wolverine in solo movies for now, instead of being in those team X-Men films. I think that Cyclops is absent in this film for other reasons. 

#8 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
" Well, I think they would rather have Wolverine in solo movies for now, instead of being in those team X-Men films. I think that Cyclops is absent in this film for other reasons.  "
That's fair enough, but Cyclops, whether you like him or not, is the X-Man. He was originally envisioned to be the main character, and he's (arguably) one of the very few contants in the franchise.
#9 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @Edamame said:
" Well, I think they would rather have Wolverine in solo movies for now, instead of being in those team X-Men films. I think that Cyclops is absent in this film for other reasons.  "
That's fair enough, but Cyclops, whether you like him or not, is the X-Man. He was originally envisioned to be the main character, and he's (arguably) one of the very few contants in the franchise. "
Certainly true. I like Cyclops, but I had other thoughts on why Cyclops will be absent in this film. It obviously will change the continuity as seen in the comics, though.
#10 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame: Most assuredly. It also means no Scott/Emma, which sucks.

Unless Scott nails his teacher in the sequels. Winning.

What're your thoughts on why Cyke wont be there?
(I wasn't suggesting you didn't like him earlier, it was a more general statement which followed on from yours =])
#11 Posted by The Impersonator (5214 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Men: First Class wouldn't be First Class without the original five.

#12 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @Green Skin said:

" Enjoy the movie for what it is, not for the what you think it should be.  The director has said it will have a continuity reboot similar to the last Star Trek, that's why everything is messed up compared to 616.   "

So they've definitely said it's a reboot? That changes things. Still, an X-Men movie without Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine or Rogue will be a pretty tough pill to swallow.   "
Director guy has said it's modeled after the Star Trek movie.  It's a pretty fair guess to say he's referring to rebooting continuity, probably through some sort of time travel since Cable is rumored to be involved.  I don't know what else he could mean by saying it's 'modeled after the last Star Trek movie'....unless they plan on putting some Romulans in there.

I think it'll be good to let some lesser known X-Men take the spot light for this.  Especially since Xavier and Magneto seem to be the center of the film.
#13 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @Green Skin said:

" Enjoy the movie for what it is, not for the what you think it should be.  The director has said it will have a continuity reboot similar to the last Star Trek, that's why everything is messed up compared to 616.   "

So they've definitely said it's a reboot? That changes things. Still, an X-Men movie without Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine or Rogue will be a pretty tough pill to swallow.   "
Director guy has said it's modeled after the Star Trek movie.  It's a pretty fair guess to say he's referring to rebooting continuity, probably through some sort of time travel since Cable is rumored to be involved.  I don't know what else he could mean by saying it's 'modeled after the last Star Trek movie'....unless they plan on putting some Romulans in there.I think it'll be good to let some lesser known X-Men take the spot light for this.  Especially since Xavier and Magneto seem to be the center of the film. "
That changes a lot for me. I'm still ticked no Cyclops, since he was barely in the originals. He could have been replaced with a laser turret. But that actually gives me some hope knowing that it's set in a different continuity to the other (terrible) films.
#14 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @Edamame: Most assuredly. It also means no Scott/Emma which sucks.
Indeed. However, for this film, I think they wanted to focus more on Emma's history with the Hellfire Club.  Perhaps they could show the Scott/Emma relationship later on.  They planned on having an Emma Frost vs. Charles Xavier battle sequence in the film, but there was one scene in Inception that made them delete it. 

@FadeToBlackBolt said:
What're your thoughts on why Cyke wont be there? "
Well, it probably sounds silly of me to say this LOL, but I think that they might want to show Jean Grey and Cyclops later on in the film franchise under Mr. Sinister's control. That way they can introduce Mr. Sinister as a geneticist who is obsessed with Jean Grey's and Cyclops' genetics. Also, they could show Mr. Sinister's subservience to Apocalypse (who will cameo at the end of this film). 
This probably goes against the continuity as shown in the comics (well, in this time period), but it is just my guess. *shrugs*   ; )
#15 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @Green Skin said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @Green Skin said:

" Enjoy the movie for what it is, not for the what you think it should be.  The director has said it will have a continuity reboot similar to the last Star Trek, that's why everything is messed up compared to 616.   "

So they've definitely said it's a reboot? That changes things. Still, an X-Men movie without Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine or Rogue will be a pretty tough pill to swallow.   "
Director guy has said it's modeled after the Star Trek movie.  It's a pretty fair guess to say he's referring to rebooting continuity, probably through some sort of time travel since Cable is rumored to be involved.  I don't know what else he could mean by saying it's 'modeled after the last Star Trek movie'....unless they plan on putting some Romulans in there.I think it'll be good to let some lesser known X-Men take the spot light for this.  Especially since Xavier and Magneto seem to be the center of the film. "
That changes a lot for me. I'm still ticked no Cyclops, since he was barely in the originals. He could have been replaced with a laser turret. But that actually gives me some hope knowing that it's set in a different continuity to the other (terrible) films. "
Lol, I completely agree.   He got a pretty raw deal in the originals.    I love hearing people complain about how terrible this movie is going to be.  I'm just like "Didn't you see the first 3?"  I don't know why people think that Fox would just all of a sudden start making accurate X-Men movies after butchering 4 of them.
#16 Posted by Mercy_ (92674 posts) - - Show Bio

Disregarding the horrible special effects, the odd choice of characters and everything else that I dislike about this movie...how hard is it to keep straight the continuity of three or four other movies? I'm not even asking them to adhere to comic book continuity, just the continuity OF THEIR OWN MOVIES. 

Moderator
#17 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin said:
" Director guy has said it's modeled after the Star Trek movie. 
I thought he said he added "James Bond elements" to this film.
#18 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @Edamame: Most assuredly. It also means no Scott/Emma which sucks.
Indeed. However, for this film, I think they wanted to focus more on Emma's history with the Hellfire Club.  Perhaps they could show the Scott/Emma relationship later on.  They planned on having an Emma Frost vs. Charles Xavier battle sequence in the film, but there was one scene in Inception that made them delete it. 

@FadeToBlackBolt said:
What're your thoughts on why Cyke wont be there? "
Well, it probably sounds silly of me to say this LOL, but I think that they might want to show Jean Grey and Cyclops later on in the film franchise under Mr. Sinister's control. That way they can introduce Mr. Sinister as a geneticist who is obsessed with Jean Grey's and Cyclops' genetics. Also, they could show Mr. Sinister's subservience to Apocalypse (who will cameo at the end of this film). 
This probably goes against the continuity as shown in the comics (well, in this time period), but it is just my guess. *shrugs*   ; ) "
Ah yeh, I suppose that works. Having Emma turn from Hellfire to X-Men could be an interesting character arc, providing it's handled well.

That could work, but maybe not under his control, just on his radar, prompting Xavier to look into them.

@Green Skin said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @Green Skin said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @Green Skin said:

" Enjoy the movie for what it is, not for the what you think it should be.  The director has said it will have a continuity reboot similar to the last Star Trek, that's why everything is messed up compared to 616.   "

So they've definitely said it's a reboot? That changes things. Still, an X-Men movie without Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine or Rogue will be a pretty tough pill to swallow.   "
Director guy has said it's modeled after the Star Trek movie.  It's a pretty fair guess to say he's referring to rebooting continuity, probably through some sort of time travel since Cable is rumored to be involved.  I don't know what else he could mean by saying it's 'modeled after the last Star Trek movie'....unless they plan on putting some Romulans in there.I think it'll be good to let some lesser known X-Men take the spot light for this.  Especially since Xavier and Magneto seem to be the center of the film. "
That changes a lot for me. I'm still ticked no Cyclops, since he was barely in the originals. He could have been replaced with a laser turret. But that actually gives me some hope knowing that it's set in a different continuity to the other (terrible) films. "
Lol, I completely agree.   He got a pretty raw deal in the originals.    I love hearing people complain about how terrible this movie is going to be.  I'm just like "Didn't you see the first 3?"  I don't know why people think that Fox would just all of a sudden start making accurate X-Men movies after butchering 4 of them. "

Ugh, the original movies suck so bad. Want to know something sad? I spent the entirety of X-3 waiting for Cyclops to show up. When Wolverine was being torn apart by the Phoenix at the end, I was like ''Don't worry, Cyclops will show up and blast her in the back''.

Then the end.

''Oh well, he'll be in the after credits scene''.

Then that was over.

''F***!''
#19 Edited by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:

That could work, but maybe not under his control, just on his radar, prompting Xavier to look into them.

I agree. Then, we could have something like this happen in that film:

The Marauders would be an interesting add as well.
#20 Posted by g33ky monk3y (131 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame:
Stephen Lang would be a perfect Cable!
#21 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
@g33ky monk3y said:
" @Edamame: Stephen Lang would be a perfect Cable! "
I completely agree.  I was thinking of this as I saw Avatar.
#22 Posted by g33ky monk3y (131 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame: 

I love Cable, he’s one of my favorite characters, although I’ve never even thought about which actor would be best for the role. I guess in part because of the complex nature of the character (history, lineage) and because I know Fox would just muck it up. Now that you’ve got me going, I’ll be dream casting a Cable movie the rest of the night.    

#23 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
" @g33ky monk3y said:
" @Edamame: Stephen Lang would be a perfect Cable! "
I completely agree.  I was thinking of this as I saw Avatar. "
Yeah, sorry guys, but I've got to disagree. Sure, Cable's somewhat ubermensch, but he also has depth. That guy lacks it.
#24 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
@g33ky monk3y said:
Now that you’ve got me going, I’ll be dream casting a Cable movie the rest of the night.    
Sweet dreams.  ;  )
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @Edamame said:
" @g33ky monk3y said:
" @Edamame: Stephen Lang would be a perfect Cable! "
I completely agree.  I was thinking of this as I saw Avatar. "
Yeah, sorry guys, but I've got to disagree. Sure, Cable's somewhat ubermensch, but he also has depth. That guy lacks it. "
LOL No need to apologize.  I actually agree with your statement, but I don't know of any better candidates.
#25 Posted by Elenatintil (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, I'm a little confused here. How do we know that Apocalypse is in the film? Has the studio stated this? Has there been a leak? Can we get a link to the info that reveals this, please? Thanks! :)

#26 Posted by RYU/BATMAN (388 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Because Mystique isn't as hot as she was in the other X-men movies
2. Wolverine and Cyclops aren't in the movie

#27 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
@Elenatintil said:

" Okay, I'm a little confused here. How do we know that Apocalypse is in the film? Has the studio stated this? Has there been a leak? Can we get a link to the info that reveals this, please? Thanks! :) "

Towards the bottom of the page:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1270798/trivia
#28 Posted by Redalert_27 (45 posts) - - Show Bio

Is that site even a reliable one? Im pretty sure this news would have made the homepage if apocalypse was in this movie.

#29 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
@Redalert_27 said:
" Is that site even a reliable one? Im pretty sure this news would have made the homepage if apocalypse was in this movie. "
Well, unfortunately, I am pretty gullible. I doubt this news is true, but it still could be the case.
#30 Posted by Elenatintil (21 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame: Thanks! 

Yeah, I'm not terribly confident in IMDB at this point. Like Wiki it can be edited by anyone, but sources aren't required (as far as I'm aware). So it's pretty hard to verify. However I know from following other films that false content often slips onto the pages during the production process. So while it could be true, until we've got a solid news article, I'm going to take it with a grain of salt.

Don't get me wrong, I think Apocalypse would be cool to see on screen (although I'd personally prefer Sinister).
#31 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
We might see Mr. Sinister one day. That might be why Cyclops and Jean Grey are absent in this film.
#32 Posted by g33ky monk3y (131 posts) - - Show Bio

@Elenatintil:
I've read the Apocalypse cameo on few different sites. He most likely shows up in the opening credits. There is also a strong chance that Wolverine will pop up too, as Jackman was sighted in the same small town they were filming. The filmmakers tried to shoot it down, hush it up, but come on. What are the chances, in the middle of making another movie, Hugh Jackman just happened to fly in and see how things were going?

 


@Redalert_27:
@Elenatintil:
 

IMDb is more of a legit business these days, and don't rely on users posting film info like a wiki. Most everything gets fact-checked. Their practices changed a few years ago when everyone was making odd edits and listing actors in movies that were only vague rumors. The trivia section is more wiki based, but info is still checked and approved. Also, if a trivia tidbit is flagged as spoiler, its usually confirmed info.

#33 Posted by g33ky monk3y (131 posts) - - Show Bio

I’m picking up a strong Cyclops love vibe here. Sorry to say it, but the filmmakers never saw Cyc as a strong enough character. With X-Men 1, they weren’t really sure who the main character was going to be, although they wanted to focus on Wolverine since he was always seen as an outsider and a good way to get introduced to the X-Men. And then the Wolverine/Hugh Jackman fever took everyone! If the producers felt Cyclops was all that important, they would have fought and forked over the green for the actor to stick around, not jump ship to Superman Returns. Believe me, a Joss Whedon inspired kind of development for Cyclops would have been amazing.

 

The simple truth is, the producers (at Fox anyway) don’t really care about the comics, regardless of what they say in interviews with Empire magazine or Entertainment Weekly. I bet most of those execs didn’t even pick up a comic until the movie project came across their desk. Lauren Shuler-Donner is one of the worst. She says she is a huge comic book fan, but she’s the one hurting it the most. If she was such a fan she would be bothered with the changes to Wolverine’s history, Silverfox being Emma Frost’s sister, Xavier WITH HAIR (one of my biggest issues), and the latest is the “no accent” policy for First Class. Okay, if you haven’t heard, the FC director said that all accents would be wiped from the character. He specifically told the actress not to do anything with Moira’s normal Scottish voice, to the mild annoyance of James McAvoy (who is Scottish).

Sorry. Fox produced comic book movies get me frustrated. WB, and by extension DC, movies just confuse me. But that is another topic that I covered on another blog post.
#34 Posted by Redalert_27 (45 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame: Don't get me wrong.....if Apocalypse was in this movie i would be excited. I was one of the movie's biggest critics but after seeing the trailer i think once you get past the character displacement, it looks like a pretty good movie. I would love somehow at the end of the movie if Cable comes and the movie shifts to a reality closer to 616. What fox needs to do is hire a comic book writer as their chief advisor. 
#35 Posted by Elenatintil (21 posts) - - Show Bio
@g33ky monk3y:  Interesting. I've still seen some projects posted that have no basis in fact (looks very sternly at the people who keep posting false Narnia info AKA Silver Chair), but I'm glad to hear IMDB is becoming more legit. I suppose since they charge for IMDB Pro they sort of had to go in that direction.

But... wow... Apocalypse as the head of the Hellfire Club? WHAT? Who thought that one up? 

A Wolverine cameo wouldn't surprise me one bit. I mean, c'mon. I'd be more surprised if he didn't show up. 

*sigh* Fox just depresses me these days. I think X-Men: First Class looks like it might be an overall better film than the last two X-Men Movies we got (in regards to scriptwriting, acting, etc). But more accurate? Hardly. 

My dream? That Marvel gets the rights back someday and makes an X-Men live action TV show. I think that's the only format that can really handle the sheer number of characters running around. And I'd hope they'd set it at Utopia, because we haven't seen that on screen yet at all... 
#36 Posted by jubilee042 (1353 posts) - - Show Bio

i think they wanted to make a magneto origin film but now with first class they get magneto as a lead and they get the x men back i'm speculating jean to appear at the end of the movie

#37 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio
@Elenatintil said:
But... wow... Apocalypse as the head of the Hellfire Club? WHAT? Who thought that one up?
That obviously goes against the continuity in the comics, but the good thing is that both Apocalypse and the members of the Hellfire Club believe in the domination of others, including mutants. So their ideologies aren't that different, in my opinion. 

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