Its ok to make him less strong but weak is a different story

#1 Edited by DATNIGGA (1241 posts) - - Show Bio

As my default suggests I am a huge nate grey fan. & I was grateful they brought him back...

but..

Not so tough now!

This is simply unacceptable. he had power equal or greater to the Phoenix force , He could possess people , he could use HUGE amounts of energy , he could go mind to mind with Exodus , emma frost & professor x In one of his comics he Freakin destroyed the moon... and now he can barley pick up blocks?

Im not gonna lie he had ALOT of powers & they were starting to go toward reality warping. so bringing him down a notch was necessary but..

I look at it like 4 stages

God , super strong , average & weak

so tell me why he went from God lvl to weak? marvel could have at least left him at super strong -___-

they should bring him up cause this is pathetic where does this leave him? weak psychic powers & low fighting skills?

Whats the Point of even having him alive? he cant even beat or even fight most if not any telapaths he runs into

#2 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio

i thought he regained back the majority of his TK recently....i might be wrong

#3 Posted by The Myth (555 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kallarkz said:

i thought he regained back the majority of his TK recently....i might be wrong

He regained a fare portion of his telekinesis during Fear Itself thanks to a technique taught to him by Sunspot to focus his powers, but still no telepathy.

He could always 'steal' the psionic energy he needs like he did to 'come back to life' in Dark X-Men but I guess that would seem a bit immoral.

#4 Posted by DP812 (91 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand this logic that a character is "unrelatable" if he's powerful. Can anyone really relate to Tony Stark, a billionaire playboy and genius inventor who can stand up to armies in his armor? Not at all, yet it doesn't stop him from being one of the best characters to ever come out of Marvel and it certainly didn't stop his films from kick-starting what's become a groundbreaking film franchise.

The "we need to power him down to make him relatable" is the tool of lazy writers. Instead of thinking up creative struggles, the struggle becomes, "oh look how difficult it is for him to lift blocks." What about how difficult it is for an extremely-powerful Nate Grey to stop himself from going crazy from all the thoughts that would constantly force their way inside his brain? What about how difficult it is to maintain any sort of a relationship with someone because he's always one slip away from knowing anything and everything that person thinks about him? What about problems such as being isolated because other people are afraid being around him due to his powers?

These are the kinds of struggles that would be a lot more interesting to read about than him straining to lift freaking blocks.

#5 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

New Mutants is a terrible series, anyway. They should just cancel it.

#6 Posted by DATNIGGA (1241 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: Yea I agree I mean there villains & storys suck & there team roster is just meh

@DP812: I cant relate to thor at all but i still love em

@Kallarkz: he did but its very weak

#7 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't understand this one at all either. Nate Grey was written fine with his full set of powers for years now. Writers never had a problem and did a good job working with that in their stories, even most recently to last in Dark X-Men. The only small reason the writer of NM seems to insert is so Nate can " learn " to become experienced in the use of TK, as since he had such a wealth of power before he never had to actually work his way up and gain any technical knowledge of how to use it? Really, that's funny because he had fine and detailed control of it before and spent a lifetime, since he was a toddler becoming versed in the use of his powers, and since when has any high powered character even had a similar problem? If the writer felt they personally weren't up to the task of actually working with Nates powers and finding a way to incorporate them into the story, and decided to drop them all together, maybe they shouldn't have even accepted the assignment and the character put in the hands of writers who can, as clearly many already have, work with the character.

#8 Posted by DATNIGGA (1241 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE: I know i hope its just a phase & he get powered up soon

#9 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@DATNIGGA: I think what is more insulting than just having Nate nerfed is that they haven't made any attempt to even give him a skill to fall back on. He seriously needs to learn some martial arts or carry a gun/weapon as a backup plan. I'm sure he can easily get one from Hope. There is no excuse for not having something as a backup especially as he is a Summers/Grey Child, pals around with Hope, and in on a team with Dani who is a similar situation as him yet has guns, a bow, and fighting skills. This has drove me crazy since his fight with Cable in Switzerland in the 90s. Cable said something around the lines of that Nate was all power yet he failed to compliment his mental power with physical prowess. Nate needs some proper training. Not this learn it all back little by little crap I'm seeing. There are plenty of people who could namely teach Nate some tricks like Cyclops. Hell, that could even be a bonding moment for them. Or even Xavier could help with teaching him which should have happened years ago. Ellis commented on that issue when coming up with the X-Man Counter X story.

But it's like they just said, "Hey, let's take this Omega Level Mutant who was defined as the Mental Doomsday Weapon by Queen Jean and make him lose all that awesomeness just so he fits a team book." God, it hurts to hear DnA make The New Mutants just troll on him for having little to no power. I mean I actually think they should have at least left him with Telepathy. Nate was raw talent that needed to be refined if anything, not made into a near-defenseless puppy.

#10 Posted by WarMachineMarkV (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

- The character is so powerful that putting him in a team book at his peak would make every other character irrelevant, he was a team killer. IMO he should have been sent to the cosmic line because like Phoenix there is almost nothing you can do with him.

- I agree that the level they lowered him to was excessive, at this point he is pretty much useless.

- I have no idea why they brought him back like this and put him on the New Mutants, its an arrangement that looks like it will disappoint his old fans and not make him very endearing to potential new ones.

#11 Edited by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@WarMachineMarkV: I understand why he got nerfed, and I am not against it so long as it was an appropriate level of it. It kinda screams Marvel didn't want a Summers child taking any spotlight power-wise from Hope. I get the feeling that he's gonna stay this way at least until the aftermath of AvX so Hope can be dealt with. Or I hope so.

I felt he should have stuck to Multiverse dealings. Hell that was basically the concept of Counter X X-Man. He dealt with Multiverse problems for Mutants and usually regarding Mutants. I guess they wanted to rebuilt him for the modern era? Any way you slice it, it's still one of those it looked good on paper, but in reality things. But maybe the bright side is that he may finally have a true place with the X-Men and the Summers family.

#12 Posted by DATNIGGA (1241 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX: yea it seemed like hope was gonna teach him something but... hes no longer on utopia so idk

@WarMachineMarkV: I see what your saying but every team has a heavy hitter thor in the avengers , silver surfer is in the defenders they both could be defined as ''team killers'' as well as most of the members in the extinction team but they can write things about them why not nate?

Is it really that hard to write for a powerful character? look at the people hulk fights , look at the people superman fights look at the people galactus fights

Even when nate was fresh out of AoA he fought people like exodus & stryfe. but at the same time people waaaayyyy under his powerlevel Like spiderman were able to participate in his comics

currently the new mutants arent that good of a team powerwise or story wise I mean all they would have to do is change the new mutants team to fit a powerful nate grey in there

#13 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@DATNIGGA: I felt rushed. I think if they haven't moved out, they could have fleshed out some training. Nate needs it and the characterization badly. But you have to figure that since they are still in San Fran and have no means to train, etc that they go back to Utopia often so for all we know we will see this again.

Please DnA, give him something to work with. It's not like Nate hasn't used guns before. Hell, when he only had TP and was hanging with Havok's Brotherhood, he had a beam glove he took so he had some form of offense. But he needs something to support his residual TK. Maybe then, he will be more active in the battle dynamic and not act like he's just there to be there.

#14 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX: @DATNIGGA: I can understand where you both are coming from. When I first heard that Nate was going to be with Cykes team after Schism I was ecstatic, however, after seeing how he was powered down frivolously I was quite let down. Here I am thinking that Nate is getting ready to bring his nigh-unlimited telekinesis and telepathy to the field and then suddenly he's stuck on a team of B-listers and his power-set is a mere echo. Yeah, wake me when he gets his real powerset back. If they were going to power him down this drastically then they might as well have just taken his powers away completely and start developing him as a great tactician and slapped some martial prowess o him. At least Claremont had the decency to do that for Storm.

#15 Edited by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@One_Eye: They were basically stating down that road when Hope offered to teach him a few survival things that she learned from Cable. But there should have been more done. Almost feels like they should have give the team a period not just for development, but for setting the ground work for aid in the team dynamic and personal abilities. The New Mutants team feelings more like a rag-tag group than a well oiled team. Kinda the weak link on Scott's side which pains me to say. I will say I like that it seems like Nate is take the role of the guy who respectfully challenges the team leader since Nate is the last Summers male to NOT have led a team himself, and I hope one day then experience aids to fixing that. Summers are natural leaders, Nate needs to step up his game. Hell, even Rachel gave the Summers attitude when they were in space by saying something around the lines of "I'm a Summers, I mostly play to win." Nate has yet to embrace his inner Summers. Scott needs to take Nate fishing again then give him the lessons he needs to be the man he should have been years ago.

#16 Edited by DATNIGGA (1241 posts) - - Show Bio

@One_Eye: @TheGreyOutcastX: marvel is suppose to be having a new mutants cross over with thor & loki so idk maybe he'll get some of his power back. cause in most of the new mutants books ive read there enemys arent that good or dangerous frost giants & asgaurdian creatures could force him to exert himself to his limits perhaps re awaking his powers. marvel does like to change things about there characters through events & big arcs... altho i do wonder something

Nate could pull power out of the astral plane & peoples minds right? well couldn't he do that to replenish his powers?

#17 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh yes,the Exiled arc with Journey into Mystery which is being written by Gillen! I doubt they will give him his powers back in this arc or at least, the most we could hope for is return him to jean levels without phoenix so you still arguably have him on a team (don't hold your breath). But since they defeated Asgardian creatures in Fear Itself without Nate gaining powers, I think they will focus on Dani once again or give them all a magical power like they did years ago when the New Mutants were in Asgard. It's why Dani even became a Valkyrie to begin with. But I have faith that Kieron Gillen will at least give the team a much needed boost in interest and development. But beyond that, it's uncertain.

As for Nate's astral tap power, Nate was similar to the Summers men that Nate was a dynamo of energy. Being strapped to the Omega Machine forced Nate to burn out his power reserves and damaged his nerves as a result of the burn out, Nate lost his telepath which allowed him to trave/linkl to the astral plane and channel the power. So when his telepathy returns, he should gain his astral tap back as long as writers don't keep him down for the sake of the team. But the damaged nerves will be the issue which Dr. Nemesis said in the issue he was in the Utopia Medical area. He would need something or someone like Elixir to heal the damage. When they nerfed him, they made sure to keep him nerfed until necessary.

#18 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, I've come across quite a few threads today in which I can bash Marvel for all of the craptastic decisions they've made in recent years, such as reducing Nate to an insect.

#19 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Yep, it's pretty sad.

#20 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX said:

@jrock85: Yep, it's pretty sad.

"Sad" really isn't the right word. I'd say "distressing" is a more befitting term.

#21 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel's X-Men comics are run by out of touch idiots. Nothing that happens is worth paying attention to, let alone paying money for. Just ignore it. 

#22 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: I supposed so, but considering it been bad decisions since Quesada, it feels a little past "distressing".

#23 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX said:

@jrock85: I supposed so, but considering it been bad decisions since Quesada, it feels a little past "distressing".

Please try to refrain from mentioning the Q word whenever we talk. Whenever I see/here it, I have to force myself not to go on a killing spree.

#24 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: That's most people's reaction to his name being mentioned.

#25 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX: LOL, Fair enough.

#26 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Only one man has as much hate has Q, and he's rumored to be headed to the X-Men.....I am disgusted even thinking about it.

#27 Posted by BlackArmor (6149 posts) - - Show Bio

I knew they depowered him but I didn't know they knocked him back to the level where he can't move blocks, that must suck

#28 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX said:

@jrock85: Only one man has as much hate has Q, and he's rumored to be headed to the X-Men.....I am disgusted even thinking about it.

That rumor came from a website that's proven to be a very unreliable source of information, so I wouldn't worry.

#29 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: I said it in an earlier post, what's worse is that they haven't even made an attempt to make him learn a skill to at least making him not seem like a useless team member. Hell, Dani has been ragging on him since he joined the New Mutants.....It just pisses me off.

#30 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: And in the last Axel In Charge, Fraction and Axel joked about him and X-Men too. So knowing Marvel, it's probably the truth.

#31 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX said:

@jrock85: And in the last Axel In Charge, Fraction and Axel joked about him and X-Men too. So knowing Marvel, it's probably the truth.

Wouldn't surprise me.

#32 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Bah, Marvel needs a shake-up in its creative department. Lose Bendis and others so other writers can shine.

#33 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX said:

@jrock85: Bah, Marvel needs a shake-up in its creative department. Lose Bendis and others so other writers can shine.

Of course, but its not going to happen.

#34 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Of course not, Marvel's new motto is: If it's broken, how can we make it worse?

#35 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX said:

@jrock85: Of course not, Marvel's new motto is: If it's broken, how can we make it worse?

LOL

#36 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: But it's the truth. It's these antics that are driving the quality of work down.

#37 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGreyOutcastX:

Marvel Comics: Quantity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Quality

#38 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85: Been like that for years.

#39 Posted by Vermillo (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea it was pretty sad. It seem like Marvel totally lack the foresight to plan out characters development anymore. With how they treated Nate, I feel betrayed.Nate probably had one of the best character development and growth in comics I read in years only for some writers to say oh let ease that. Hey Marvel...That a slap in the face to fans. Hey some words of advice before you decide to use a character maybe you should have your writers do some background research before destroy the character. Not only has Marvel brought him back only to reduce him to an insect but they nerfed also everybody with the summer/grey bloodline. Hell if they wanted to power him down at least they could as someone stated before make him at" Jean Grey level or make him a full TK or TP." I pretty sure I would have been ok with that instead of this crap. Even in his original run fans seen how he was able to still function when he had half of his power. I mean when he lost his TK after X-Man 25. He adjust and still did well or when he lost his TP in X-man 48 (I believe.) The reason why he did fine when he lost half of his power was because unlike most powerhouse characters, Nate actually used his smart instead of his powers. He thought thing out and that because of all the encounters he had. Also isn't Cable and him mind-linked. I mean I remember reading some old X-man comics were they able to mind link from great distance but when they were in close proximity they a feedback. The reason I brought this up is when Cable "died" Nate should had got that mental feedback. I mean it happen before with Cable and Stryfe so what up with that Marvel? PPP I guess. Because I pretty sure with all the memories Cable and since they so alike, those memories should have transfer to Nate. I mean at least if that happen...Nate would have all of Cable knowledge, and skills to fall back on when he lost his powers. But no we can't have many powerful mutants beside Hope now. I mean really? Everybody have to be weaker then Hope. But while I on the topic on Hope what has she actually done with her powers except make 3 mutants. I mean Marvel have been building her up for years and when it said and done she has done nothing. They destroy several characters: development, death and growth (Bishop, Nightcrawler, etc.) just to add her into comics only for it be Oh it Hope she meh.

#40 Edited by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vermillo said:

Yea it was pretty sad. It seem like Marvel totally lack the foresight to plan out characters development anymore. With how they treated Nate, I feel betrayed.Nate probably had one of the best character development and growth in comics I read in years only for some writers to say oh let ease that. Hey Marvel...That a slap in the face to fans. Hey some words of advice before you decide to use a character maybe you should have your writers do some background research before destroy the character. Not only has Marvel brought him back only to reduce him to an insect but they nerfed also everybody with the summer/grey bloodline.

Not everybody. Rachel has her powers were untouched after the Phoenix Echo was removed so she is still about Jean's level. Plus Cable's return in X-Sanction leads people to think that he has his powers back and he is no longer hindered by the T-O virus. Not sure they were on the same page about Cable and Nate's powers deal though. But I agree on everything else above.

@Vermillo said:

Hell if they wanted to power him down at least they could as someone stated before make him at" Jean Grey level or make him a full TK or TP." I pretty sure I would have been ok with that instead of this crap. Even in his original run fans seen how he was able to still function when he had half of his power. I mean when he lost his TK after X-Man 25. He adjust and still did well or when he lost his TP in X-man 48 (I believe.) The reason why he did fine when he lost half of his power was because unlike most powerhouse characters, Nate actually used his smart instead of his powers. He thought thing out and that because of all the encounters he had.

I agree that Nate should have been reduced to say Rachel's current level. But keep in mind, all the times he lost his powers....It was cause his subconscious was trying to protect his body from his powers. It was stated by Reed in X-Man 59 and also hinted at by Moira in X-Man 26. His powers now are burned out and he has nerve damage which causing the limit on his powers. And I agree and disagree about Nate using his smarts. Most times, Nate had to use a combo to save the day. Not saving Nate isn't smart. He is definitely smarter than he looks which is often something people forget. Shaman Nate definitely was smarts over power, but orignial Nate was combo to Powers over smarts mostly cause he had the realizations in battle after he tried to do something.

@Vermillo said:

Also isn't Cable and him mind-linked. I mean I remember reading some old X-man comics were they able to mind link from great distance but when they were in close proximity they a feedback. The reason I brought this up is when Cable "died" Nate should had got that mental feedback. I mean it happen before with Cable and Stryfe so what up with that Marvel?

Common misconception. Nate and Cable share the same DNA which also means the share the same power signature. Due to this, it cause a psionic feedback or a mental echo as Exodus caused it which cause both of them intense pain. The closer they are, the stronger the pain from the feedback. Nate and Cable though do feel pain when they use telepathy on either other which was shown during Operation Zero Tolerance. But when Cable died, Nate should have been in hooked up to the Omega Machine in New York. They probably didn't count it due to the distance.

@Vermillo said:

PPP I guess. Because I pretty sure with all the memories Cable and since they so alike, those memories should have transfer to Nate. I mean at least if that happen...Nate would have all of Cable knowledge, and skills to fall back on when he lost his powers. But no we can't have many powerful mutants beside Hope now. I mean really? Everybody have to be weaker then Hope. But while I on the topic on Hope what has she actually done with her powers except make 3 mutants. I mean Marvel have been building her up for years and when it said and done she has done nothing. They destroy several characters: development, death and growth (Bishop, Nightcrawler, etc.) just to add her into comics only for it be Oh it Hope she meh.

1. Nate and Cable have been genetically identical, but they didn't know Nate was back, Nate was trapped on the Omega Machine in a coma-esque state...or at least was when Sugar Man was there. So Cable's knowledge. etc wouldn't be transferred. Plus if that happened, that makes Nate more Cable like which goes against the whole "I'm the other side of the coin of you" thing they have.

2. There is still powerful mutants outside of Hope. Legion is out there, Rachel is at her normal levels, Magneto is very powerful, Ice Man's got some swag, Quentin Quire is back, and don't forget Franklin Richards. But she takes top billing cause of her importance currently. Nate was the same way in the 90s. Everybody wanted Nate in the 90s cause he was insanely powerful. Now it's Hope.

3. She made 5 mutants: Transonic, Oya, Primal, Velocidad, and Zero.

4. Hope's role should end as of AvX, after all, this event is about her and Phoenix.

5. Agree on the destroy characters part, but Hope isn't so bad. She's an acquired taste that's for sure. But she's akin to DC's Damian. People either love them to die or hate their guts.

#41 Posted by CosmicGod432 (177 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really see Nate being depowered a bad thing unless they take too much time to repower him back up. I think Nates power should come back out of nowhere. Like say his whole team is in trouble during AvX and then all of the sudden BAM! Nate goes into beast mode because he is focusing so hard. I don't know maybe that sounds a little weird but I would like to see a scenario like that. If they kill Nate off again I will be severly PO.

#42 Posted by Psycorvus (69 posts) - - Show Bio

@CATPANEXE: You Damn Right!

#43 Posted by TheGreyOutcastX (2051 posts) - - Show Bio

@CosmicGod432 said:

I don't really see Nate being depowered a bad thing unless they take too much time to repower him back up. I think Nates power should come back out of nowhere. Like say his whole team is in trouble during AvX and then all of the sudden BAM! Nate goes into beast mode because he is focusing so hard. I don't know maybe that sounds a little weird but I would like to see a scenario like that. If they kill Nate off again I will be severly PO.

I think this is not a bad idea.

#44 Posted by DATNIGGA (1241 posts) - - Show Bio

@CosmicGod432: Not a bad idea I could see this happening in Exiled with the new mutants & Asgaurdians

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