deadpool and fantomex , nuff said!!!
X-Force Vs. Uncanny X-Force, How Do They Compare?
The two most recent X-Force teams and their characters are being handled so well in my opinion. Yost and Kyle did an amazing job bringing X-Force back and basically revamping it. Rick Remender though his writing gives a different feel has the same end result and that result is an issue that makes you want more, and I think thats difficult to accomplish. The new art for Uncanny X-Force is amazing, I've never seen Jerome Opena's art before this book but I definitely fell in love with it. My only complaint with X-Force to Uncanny X-Force was the lack of explanation concerning Domino. Yost and Kyle make us fall for Domino and Rick Remender unexplainably make us miss Domino. I must ask, Why so cruel Rick Remender?
Yost and Kyle's X-Force had more of an edge to it. Uncanny X- Force seems to have a better plot though. I'm going to wait 10 issues to actually compare the two though. I actually prefer the art in Yost and Kyle's tho :S Either way both X-Force's are easily more intriguing than any other X-title, and dare I say it......... any other Marvel book.(Only the cosmic books come close) I only wish Necrosha wasn't rushed at the end....thats my only real complaint of any recent x-force book.
I have been so busy I totally forgot about this title. When Kyle and Yost were on X-Force, it was one of my favorite books each month, but it's too early to tell in Remender's run. I enjoyed the first issue, and got excited about the Warren and Betsy rekindling there relationship. I just hope the remains a good read.
This video seems a bit out of focus.
The secret base idea makes no sense. If the enemy sees that they are X-Men. They aren't going to know they are a rogue faction. Wolverine, Angel, and Psylocke are well known members of X-Men. If they are seen by anyone, they are going to think this was a secret X-Men attack. They are going to attack the X-Men on Utopia, the target they know. This X-Force having a secret base makes them less of a target.
Not to mention, how is it that Cyclops or Emma wont notice these members disappearing for long stretches of time together?
The whole motivations of this new X-Force is so convoluted and filled with plot holes. The previous X-Force was for striking out at threats that the X-men couldn't be publicly seen striking at, such as the Purifiers. Mutants attacking humans, even if they are Purifiers, would cause an uproar. One their numbers were no longer in a position to handle.
Why do they need a covert ops team to go after a threat such as Apocalypse? I understand the need for a surprise attack, but I don't see why Cyclops would be against that. Who in their right mind would have hired members in a team that is suppose to be a secret? Did they make these guys pinky swear not to tell? Saying that Deadpool has been working for Warren all this time feels closer to a writer's convenience.
Even the selection of their first target being Apocalypse. Yes, he is a huge threat to mutants and humans, but when I see the history the team leaders have with him. It feels more as if they are just settling a personal score.
If you are looking for continuity. Best to give up, now. You're never going to get it. Not with that many writers and titles going on at once.
I think Magneto pretty much wants Apocalypse to be reborn. Apocalypse comes back, starts spewing his twisted Darwinist theories to make normal humans feel that mutants are a real threat instead of all gathered in a place where they can take them out if necessary. Then, Magneto gets the war he has always been looking for.
I love the way you two danced around X-Force as a Kill Squad. No sugar coating their mission statement, they are the reason why the X-men can continue to exist and tolerate the existence of humans. One of the reasons why I loved X-Force was how much fits into the complicated mosaic Fraction created, Utopia as the mutant Israel.
Much like Israel who is guilty of war crimes, that is sending in covert ops to kill threats along their borders, Cyclops did the same...except now, it gets more interesting.
Without Cyclops' blessing, the band is back together with TRUE professional killers. This band would wipe the floor with the original cast .
What happens when the Avengers and other authorities discover the mutants have a kill squad? What if Avengers find out about Wolverine's participation?
Great stuff by Remender (Fear Agent)
I think Wolverine is actually pretty flexible when it comes to on how he acts and reacts to situations with X-23. Its really up to the writer at the time, and I am more surprised K&Y placed X-23 in the path, surprised, but not really surprised, it was the only book they were writing and X-23 is flexible enough as a character to also be present there and of course Wolverine is there to so, and then back to Wolverine, well he makes his fair share of mistakes and bad decisions all the time, and is often hypocritical. That flaw in his character actually makes him more endearing. He is the flawed 'father' making mistakes, not the perfect father type figure who takes responsibility at the right times.
I liked the older X-Force so far, more, because (it had more time to develop lol) and it took underrated characters, less popular characters and showed how they have their own little quirks and interesting angles. The current Uncanny X-Force has those same types of interesting and unusual characters, but I mean, its not very subtle at all, and its just already there, lol this combination is just rife with interesting conflict and interaction. For me, this takes away a lot of the subtlety and humanization the previous X-Force had. Jimmy's dark edge, Dom's humor, basically all the characters interaction with each other. Vanisher being interesting and boosted from a C-Lister. Uncanny X-Force, I mean it realizes that and now needs to create as strong villains and now we are hit with villains who exploit the Rule of Weird to full degree. We won't really see any small moments, each character will probably be played as a caricature, as they probably should as its more entertaining generally and probably more bankable.
Pretty sure Magneto in background was just a part of Kid A's training, almost hundred percent sure X-Force and all that won't play into Age of X, would sound quite convoluted otherwise.
Oh and nicely said Dr. Detfink
This type of videos is why I love Comicvine. I don't have friends that read comics so I'm always wanting to discuss this things with someone and I can't, but is nice to see other people doing it.
BTW, Uncanny X-Force is extremely good. And the end of the last team was necessary, as great a comic it was, its ending was great storywise.
" Much like Israel who is guilty of war crimes, that is sending in covert ops to kill threats along their borders, Cyclops did the same...except now, it gets more interesting. "Why are you dragging Israel into this discussion and accusing them of war crimes? You make it sound as if Israel is sending Mossad squads into Palestine to kill people in the streets for the fun of it. You seem to be forgetting the Munich Massacre of 1972. Not to mention the numerous Hamas bombers that slip in intent on slaughtering as many innocent people as they can.
Yes, there's no denying there's a reason for retaliation. However, not all of Israel's actions were provoked. How about their operation that blew up Iraq's plans for a nuclear plant back in the 80s? or their plans to blow up the Iranian nuclear bunker underground. Justified or not, this is not something sanctioned by the U.N.
I bet if I talked to a Turkish person about a certain boat incident...or incidents involving citizens on the Gaza strip. It is not to condemn because EVERY nation is guilty of incidents today that if we went by the rules of engagement in the early 1900s would ignite a World War...
The parallels are no more blatant than Marvel's Bush-isms in Millar's Ultimates writing. They're comic book writers not to be confused with writers for the Economist or the Atlantic. Hence, their entertainment value supersedes the politics...
I digress...a race of no more than a few hundred mutants are surrounded on all sides by enemies. They had to stave off Norman Osborn, Bastion, and Dracula's vampire son...their own axis of Evil. They created their own nation and awaited the coming of the Messiah. I mean, how much more spelled out is it?
They also have a DEATH Squad...that when word gets out is going to affect the Nation X's relationship with Avengers as well as their Sanctuary in the Bay area.
I dunno what other comparisons besides celebrating Yom Kippur do you want? Should Wolverine wear a
Before any clown on this site pastes a label on me as an anti-Semite or any B.S. read: Sarah Glidden's first graphic novel — "How to Understand Israel in 60 Days or Less" by DC/Vertigo. It's about a Jewish girl from New England states who has supported Catholic Bostonian Democrays who denounced Israel's actions and realized it's not cut and dried when she gets over there.
But that doesn't make it right EITHER...
You're stoned if you don't think that's where the mutant writers are going with X-men and Uncanny X-force.
" @FoxxFireArt:How is blowing up nuclear plants that were in violation of sanctions a war crime? That's a long walk to go from that to war crimes. War crimes more involves acts of genocide.
Yes, there's no denying there's a reason for retaliation. However, not all of Israel's actions were provoked. How about their operation that blew up Iraq's plans for a nuclear plant back in the 80s? or their plans to blow up the Iranian nuclear bunker underground. Justified or not, this is not something sanctioned by the U.N. "
Those nuclear plants weren't sanctioned either. In fact, there were sanctions against them. Who do you think would be the first target strike if Iran was to get a nuclear missile? It wouldn't even take many to wipe them out. It takes the U.N. to decide even the most basic thing. What do they do about sanctions violations? They write letters. The U.N. even fails to recognize genocide in many countries, because if something is classified as genocide. They are required to use military force and step in as part of their charter.
You seem to be more interested in finding parallels to political strife. You are looking at windmills and seeing dragons.
REALLY!?!?!? I think you overshot my commentary about the number of killed in the Gaza strip that may be or may be not misconstrued as "civilians" or the Turkish boat incident. Wars have started over FAR less over the course of history.
As for the nuclear reactors, they are sanctioned so long as they pass U.N. Inspection. Of course, we can be skeptical but that's a beef with the U.N. who made those rules. The only reason why their strategic attack in Iraq didn't ignite more trouble was, the reactor wasn't active YET...but say it was and it killed thousands nearby? Yea...I'm sure there was love and care taken when that mission was executed.
EVERY country has a death squad...Israel is no exception especially in self-preservation of a race that is only 13 million according to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics.
Again, if you think Israel is squeaky clean I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
Otherwise, for every action there is a reaction and it's wrong to think that some of Israel's actions haven't provoked its OWN problems in the late 20th and early 21 century.
Wrong. A war Criminal is someone charged and convicted of a crime. Israel has never been charged nor tried unlike the Nazi party in Germany (who btw was rightfully charged). Because you can't charge any country who disavows their black ops agents. (this is a key point in X-Force 2.0, they are acting as disavowed agents with hired killers)
But as nation are they guilty of war crimes? Absolutely. That goes double for the United States.
It was NEVER my intention to drag this into a political discussion. It was merely part of an allegory for how the X-writers see the X-men in the Post-Xavier era. It's the fight for survival and it's about doing the necessary evil for the greater good.
I leave it up to YOU to decide if it's justified. And that's how it should be, individualistic. Again, I never said my political views are omnipotent BUT I will defend them as my own.
However, if you want to go to war with me over politics. I will humor and entertain you at 0622 East Coast time.
This band would wipe the flood with the original cast .That's unlikely, take Wolverine & Archangel out of the equation as they were in both team and you're comparing Psylocke, Fantomex & Deadpool against X-23 (a true professional murderer!), Warpath, Domino (got the drop on both Cable & Deadpool at least once) and I'm not even going to bring Wolfsbane, Elixir & Vanisher into the discussion as they were more of support for the team.
It does, however, make sense to have this line up, by having paid killers theres more plausible deniability. I am surprised Dom isn't there though she seems like she'd fit in with this group being a mercenary and all. Where is she???
That's Magneto manipulating liquid metal in the Age of X preview. Very cool stuff.
As far as the new X-Force goes, I love it. It reminds me of classic Uncanny X-Men more than any other X-book released in recent years. The cast really only has Archangel for me, the rest I can take or leave. With the right people at the helm such as the creative team for this book - it works regardless of that.
At LAST! An actual comic book discussion. :)
The Vanisher was killed during Second Coming by Bastion, yes? Pretty sure he was gunned down while pimp daddy was trying to save his girls. Bastion baited him to cut off all teleporters and isolate the mutants. So now, you're short on a team.
X-23 was a lab experiment to be a murderer but doesn't have the resume' that Deadpool has. Not even close. Those two can go at it all day and night long. I call draw.
No way Psylocke taps to Domino. Sure, I'll buy that a writer allowed her to get the drop on Deadpool & Cable but a psychic Ninja? Naw. Not buying it.
Warpath hasn't been relevant in a fight since Uncanny X-men #193. Fantomex is way more ruthless.
Wolfsbane is pregnant. That's not happening (she may have given birth in the latest issue of X-Factor).
Also, I'm going to go with teamwork. Fantomex, Deadpool, and Wolverine were all part of the Weapon X program and they're the best at what they do.
this was fun. Keep 'em coming. :)
i really like the idea of uncanny in no one at all knows about it love the roster be nice if it was a wee bit bigger like if it had domino or a re-imagined shatterstar i liked the feel of the other x-force team like having a quick evac in vanisher, a medic in elixir, and aerial support in angel then the ground team. i wouldnt really worry about anyone reading their mind cuz who would want to read deadpool's mind, cant read fantomex's or psylocke if they dont want you to, if they read angels when he is in archangel mode he really already has Apocalypse on the brain and wolverine im not sure i think it would be hard to read him
As far as Fantomex and Deadpool are concerned: Fantomex has always been a mercenary, a thrillseeker second, and a narcissist third. Suicidal mission with next to zero chance for success and they need him to even the odds.
Deadpool is crazy but he has also worked for Weapon X, he has a limited sense of self preservation, and helped wolverine take down Romulus..I think he fits...Just Barely
As far as Babs and G Man's commentary on Wolverine, Psylocke, and Betsy being away at the same time...All wolverine has to say is that he was helping the avengers or any of the other 500 teams he is a member of and people typically do not question wolverine about where he has been they are only glad that he is here now (greatly in part due to his possible superpower of omnipresence).
I always liked the concept of the X-Force team. They do everything the X-Men don't. But apart from X-23 which is one of my favourites, there wasn't anyone on that team that i really liked. We all know, my favourite hero ever is Psylocke. So, to have my favourite hero in a team that i always loved the concept is a dream come true! Without a doubt, Uncanny X-Force is better than the previous team.The story is mature and the members are deadly. Also, i like the fact that it is a top secret, badass team. Really the BEST Marvel comic book. It owns 2010.
Not really happy with the book, nor with the direction it is heading in January. Probably going to drop the title here soon. It's too confusing with Wolverine in hell, in quarentine and in space. Not too mention in the Avengers as well. At least if I read Uncanny X-Men, I can at least get some continuity with the guy. Plus I can get Fantomex, Angel and Psylocke in that book as well. Alas poor Deadpool, I just don't care enough about you to read anymore.
I don't understand how so many people are confused by Wolverine being in hell / on the Avengers / on X-Force / Quarantined on Utopia congruently. Titles publish one issue a month (if that), but most stories arcs unfold in the course of only a few days. Even if every six issue story arc averaged out to be a week in marvel time (which is far too liberal), that would only account for two weeks of stories a year from each title. There are 365 days a year. Even if Wolverine had 20 titles every month there would still be time unaccounted for. Being confused by the multiple Wolverine books is like being confused how someone can be at soccer on Thursday, because you saw them at school on Monday...
I think Wolverine is where Deadpool is going. OVEREXPOSURE. Why having Wolverine in Uncanny X-Men, Uncanny X-Force, New Avergers? Not talkin' bout his own titles! He should only be a Uncanny X-men and X-Force members. And have one solo. Enough... The same for Deadpool. He's cool and fits Uncanny X-Force so bad! He could be there and have one more solo book.
Wolverine and Deadpool both have less monthly appearances than Batman and I don't hear anyone complaining about Bruce being overexposed. At least Wolverine and Deadpool are full time heroes/mercs, Bruce Wayne has a day job, a variety of social obligations and he still manages to litter DC's monthly solicits with a dozen appearances.
Im NEW to comics and stuff so I really dont understand some things when theres too many books going around.
if this is the new roster for X-Force and it happend after Wolverine and his team came back from fighting the sentals in the future and Cable died...wtf is going on w/ curse of the mutants? and whats the deal w/ this Wolverine and this NEW XForce team? isnt Wolverine in Hell and his body was being possessed by a Demon, is this demon helping out the New X-Force team? I thought The Five Lights story arc w/ Hope was going on right now and Magneto was a good guy?!
Kyle/Yost's X-Force is the superior book. Overall better writing and better characterizations. Like you guy's said it had more of a team vibe to it. It also had a better team. This team's too small. I see how in special ops that could be an advantage but it's just too imbalanced. It's made of blades/stabbers more or less. And it's lacking in support. The original team had Logan/X-23/Warpath/Wolfsbane for close quarters combat. You had Domino for sharp shooting, Elixer as medical support, and Vanisher (albeit reluctantly) as transport. That's a well rounded team of personalities and abilities (even the 3 ferals all fought uniquely). One thing that bothers me is that. Domino/Elixer aren't on this new team. I mean they were both 100% behind the idea of X-Force. I could see Warpath/Wolfsbane (who was traumatized by her experiences) leaving the team. But not Dom and Elixer. Fantomex is a great character and like an earlier poster said a thrill seeker. He's always looking for some way to occupy his time and a challenge so I get why he's doing this. I also sense that he's looking for some place to belong, he was made to be a weapon and I think this is his attempt at finding a purpose and maybe, some friends. Deadpool being here is "for the money" but I think that he like fantomex is also looking for some place to belong. After his infiltration of the Skrull base he joined the X-Men (well tried) but was rejected by Cyclops and the others. You could see that he was genuinely hurt by this. His tactics were too violent and extreme for the X-Men's peaceful public image and and he almost caused a huge PR fallout for the team. However, in the end he made things work out for the best. Despite this he was still more or less told to take a hike and to NEVER come back to utopia or San Francisco. Despite wearing a mask, you could still see the pain on his face and see in his dialog that he was deeply hurt by this rejection.
As far as this book goes, I have two major issues. The first is the characterization of angel. Though in all fairness this was started by Kyle/Yost. I understand the reemergence of the Arch Angel persona. However, I think it undercuts all the character development that went into angel prior to this whole messiah War/2nd coming time span. in the old X-Factor days, Jean did confirm Angel's tech-organic wings did have a psyche of their own and were an extension of his darker, more violent side.This "death" persona was strengthened by his both his overt/subconscious blood lust. But over time angel conquered this and returned to his original state. I can understand how X-Force's mission's violent nature, the general threat and stress he lived under and his wings being savagely ripped could serve as catalyst for his transformation, but I don't like it. It's just not very good writing. That is the one Misstep in Kyle/Yost's run to me. And it's sad to see Remender follow up on that development and even make it a focal point of the series.
My next issue is with Apocalypse. I'm not so much angry at him being a child, as him being a child who must be taught. It's not like ol' blue lips hasn't manifested as weaker forms before (I mean in one future he takes the form of an old lady!), but the one thing that remains constant is that HE KNOWS who he is, and what he's all about. He need never be told his origin or what he is!!! It's just counterintuitive to the character. Especially since he's being more or less trained to sic the X-Men/Xavier. Since WHEN has he given a rat's sack about the X-men/Chuck unless they specifically had material value in a scheme of his? Also, since when has he been a mutant defender, human hater? (Outside of bad writing making it so?) Apocalypse care's only for the strong. This is best exhibited in AOA, when he rules the world he establishes social Darwinism to the full out extent. Mutant or human, you can have a place in his kingdom as long as you have the sufficient strength to do so. Another problem his presence presents is that whenever he's awakened before his intended time by the Clan Akkaba he has more or less nearly exterminated all of them for their weakness of needing his aid. Why would they expect this to not happen this time. Example in the trade where they awaken him in the 1800's to defeat Dracula he does so, but also punishes his "children" for their shameful, pathetic lack of power. This version of Apocalypse just...doesn't...work...
Lastly you're going against the mutant who has singlehandedly mollywhopped multiple X-Men teams...at once? And you want to do it with THIS team (note, they had/have no idea he's a kid)? Really? Le sigh, ok den, folk. There's a lot of problems with this book IMO. Yet, I have to admit my personal biases aside it's well written/illustrated. I'll eat the meat and spit out the bone and take it for what it is. I would've liked to see it go in another direction (larger/balanced team, black ops centric, focus on interpersonal relationships). I think this kid Apocalypse thing was done mainly to peak interest and boos sales because of and within itself it doesn't work. I think Remender would've had a better story had he had X-Force go after the remaining members of the FOH, The Right, or Purifiers. I'll see how this arc pans out and if things don't improve I'll drop it.
I was curious about that last page as well but I think it was just a pic of Magneto from one of the screens that projected images of the X-Men during Lil Apocalypse's lesson. Still you can't help but wonder what that image implies.
Though I did say it's too early to tell which team is better I personally like Remenders team better than the first. They're all professional killers on some level as oppose to the original team that had a few members that had a hard time dealing with killing (Warpath, Wolfsbane, Elixr).
I also like that this new team isn't mutant exclusive and has a Mutate (Deadpool) and Super-Sentinel (Fantomex) in their ranks.
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