Uncanny X-Force

#1 Posted by goldenkey (2927 posts) - - Show Bio

After the run by Kyle Craig on X-Force vol 3. and the insanly beautiful art that went with it some, and I for one were worried where Rick Remender was going to go with it. He took it to another level and he's just blowing me away. Jerome Opena might now be favorite artist out there, the guy is just silly how good he is. The biggest questiong we all seemed to have is what the hell was Deadpool doing in the book and how the hell were they going to use him. He fits in better then anyone ever expected, and Remender has put the BADASS back in him, and even gave the loony bird a concious. Deadpool is just what he's supposed to be in the book, but other then him, the real rising star is Fantomex. Looks like he's going to get the leadership tag to the book as well. With Wolverine going to become a principal of sorts at the school, it looks like he might put on the roll Cyclops did in X-Force vol. 3. "I was hoping we can keep this between us, I'd hate to lose my teaching job." What do you people think? How is this book in your eyes, and is it me, or is this the best X book written in a decade or more?" Screw Geof Johns, Remender needs to win best writer for what he's doing on this book alone.

#2 Edited by Pbott (210 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with you 100%, along with Scott Snider, Rick Remender is the only writer that when I pick up one of his books I know it will be flawless. I have said it before, but if Rick Remender wrote a toad ongoing it would be amazing. Before this volume of of x-force i would have said the last Volume was the best x book I have ever read, but some how this book is even better. My ultimate dream in life is for Remender to write Uncanny, I cannot remember the last time that book has been better than average. It seems that over the years most of the x-men characters have been static and instead of individual character development, it has been development as mutant kind as a whole. I encourage you to pick up Fear Agent written by Remender it is just wrapping up, and it is AMAZING. And you are right he should get writter of the year, one reason being I have never herd one negative thing about his writing by anyone and if anyone has something bad to say about him I am calling you out to tell me what is wrong with it, but i will go ahead and tell you that you are wrong because he is the only writer working for Marvel that is flawless.

FYI it was just announced that he will be writeing Secret Avengers with Hawk Eye as leader, the only down side is that it is not going to be out till February

Rick Remender= Bendis dialogue+ Johnathon hickmon's long, yet interesting story telling + Grant Morison's high concept writing.

#3 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29331 posts) - - Show Bio

Remender is amazing.

#4 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

Remender is amazing.

QFT.

#5 Posted by goldenkey (2927 posts) - - Show Bio

@Pbott: Bendis Dialogue is crazy good. I'm a big fan of Millar as a writer too, before this his Ultimate X-men was my favorite X run in years, He did so good I picked up Ultimates when I never read any Avenger titles before. Cuz of that I read all avenger books, but also because Bendis writes them. Millars Ultimate run is my favorite right now. What he did was just magic to me and I wish Remender would jump on an Ultimate title. Other then that I'll check out your recommendation, but you should J.M. Styzinski (cant spell it) rising stars maxi series.

#6 Posted by Mercy_ (92096 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh, Bendis.

X-Force was absolutely amazing. Pretty much unparalleled creative team. UXF is damn good, but doesn't quite love up to it, IMO.

Moderator
#7 Posted by Pbott (210 posts) - - Show Bio

@goldenkey: I just looked Rising Stars up and it looks awesome, so ill check it out. I have never read to much of the ultimate universe, but I am reading the new: Ultimates, Spider-man, and X-men and I love all three. My only problem with Bendis's Avengers is that when he gets sucked up into events, I loved the first 20 or so Issues of New Avengers back around 2004, but it has been only ok since then. I do however love Bendis on Solo titles like Moon Knight and that Spider Women series was Amazing also.

#8 Posted by BloodTalon (413 posts) - - Show Bio

I dropped X-Force after Messiah complex cuz I don't like Phantom X and I did not like the ida of Deadpool being on the team but I am going to start picking up again because of AOA Nightcrawler I hope the book is as good as all you say it is

#9 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Force was great, but its main strength was how terrible everything else was. On its own merits, it's good, but nothing too spectacular. Look at in terms of how the X-Franchise has been in general in recent times, and it's phenomenal.  
 
It's the same for UXF. Good, not great, but standing in a pile of crap, looks amazing. 

#10 Posted by goldenkey (2927 posts) - - Show Bio

@venomoushatred1001: what is QFT??

#11 Posted by goldenkey (2927 posts) - - Show Bio

@BloodTalon: I wasn't crazy about Messiah Complex either, thank God the art was silly, and I just love Apocalypse and he was illustrated just damn good. I hate when they leave his tenticles out and here they didn't. Messiah Complex was one of those shitty instances where you had to read it because it was tied into other books.

#12 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio
@goldenkey said:

@venomoushatred1001: what is QFT??

Quoted for the Truth, it means he agrees with you.
#13 Posted by goldenkey (2927 posts) - - Show Bio

@BloodTalon: I wasn't to cean on the idea of D.P. on the team either at first. Im a fan of the Joe Kelly D.P. where DP was not only a bonafide badass but FEARED. Right now, in his monthly title, he's watered down. He's comic relief and kind of like Spider-man meets the Joker, meets Wolverine, meets and 8ball of meth. Marvels resident idiot. I don't read his monthly book so I like the varient covers and his guest appearances because Im not over exposed to him, but mostly Im pissed off at how they took a great character and fucked him up. I own the trade for his first 5 issues of his new title and its great, but now it's like what Larson did with Savage Dragon, and made it just.....................stupid. Let me tell you this, and Im not alone on this thought. I keep seeing it brought up and written about actually. D.P. will impress you. He's not over used at all, he's written as the badass he actually is, and should be. He's comparable to say Spider-man in Avengers or FF. He's there just enough. It's actually one of the reasons I like the book so much because of how well they use him. It's a relief. Samething for Fantomex too. We're lucky that when we read his word bubbles we don't have to read him with a faux French accent. They mention over and over that he has one, and he keeps letting us know he's faking it cuz it annoys people and takes them off their guard when judging him so he's underjudged. A cool concept but kinda pointless when it's written and not heard. It would work better if they wrote his vocabulary in a French way. Kinda like how Gambit is written with the Cajun Creole accent. Fantomex is just written so cool in Uncanny that if you don't end up liking him, then me recommending the book to you is pointless. Im doing it because I had the same reserves you did at first and now it's my favorite book out there because of the impressions it made. The art was questionable at first then 3 issues in not only grows on you, but blows you away. I can easily say that if you read all the issues and you not only dont appreciate D.P. but still don't like Fantomex, then you're a fucking idiot. NOW, Im not calling you that, Im just saying that if you read the book and still don't change your percession, THEN you're a fucking idiot. That's how much I think this book is that good. Plus I started a forum on nothing but just wanting to know what people thought about it.

#14 Posted by Mercy_ (92096 posts) - - Show Bio

@BloodTalon: Do you mean after Second Coming? Because UXF (which is the team that has Deadpool) wasn't formed until then.

@goldenkey said:

@BloodTalon: I wasn't crazy about Messiah Complex either, thank God the art was silly, and I just love Apocalypse and he was illustrated just damn good. I hate when they leave his tenticles out and here they didn't. Messiah Complex was one of those shitty instances where you had to read it because it was tied into other books.

Are you talking about Messiah War? Because Messiah CompleX was probably the last truly amazing (or even good) X-Event and it had nothing to do with Apolcalypse.

Moderator
#15 Posted by goldenkey (2927 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt: I don't want to say that comment is just out right bullshit, but I don't agree. For one the art was incredible and there's no denying that, but like all monthly titles that run for, what was it, 30 something before becoming Uncanny X-Force, it's going to have great stories, and few okay or even bad stories. It had it's down moments for sure, even parts that, after ending, didn't even need to be included. What it ended up essentially becoming tho was a maxi-series. It kept going and going. In fact afater Bastion coming back in the first arch, and then Bastion bring back all those villains, Creed, Hodges, Peirce, Stryker, etc. You know you couldn't wait to see just where it was going to go. Well, it took almost 2 years before we found out where it went, it went to Second Coming, and I personally just loved Second Coming. One of the coolest thing written in that first arch was when Wolverine told Cyclops, after chasing Bastion and seeing all those dead villains standing there TOGETHER something along the lines of "It was like seeing 10 of your worst nightmares standing there together" I forgot exactly what writtern (now I gotta look it up). Sure the other X titles might have been lacking, but to say that X-Force was good because the other books were so bad is...............I change my mind, I am saying it outright, BULLSHIT. Give credit where it's due. It deserves it, and Uncanny derserves it too. One thing that leaves me questioning tho, is that after seeing how cool and dark the art was, that that particular style hasn't taken off more. Obviously, if the book was able to come out monthly, it's not to difficult to repeat.

#16 Posted by goldenkey (2927 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: Awsome, that's might be just about the coolest way of telling someone that you agree with him. Complimenting and agreeable. I like it. I hate, what do you call them again when you use letter initials for a quote like WTF or LOL, but this one Im gonna use myself because it's so complimenting. Im still trying to find out what the R O in R O L M F A O is. I know what L M F A O is just not the R O before it. I dont much care either, I can google it I guess, just curious tho.

#17 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3940 posts) - - Show Bio

@goldenkey said:

After the run by Kyle Craig on X-Force vol 3. and the insanly beautiful art that went with it some, and I for one were worried where Rick Remender was going to go with it. He took it to another level and he's just blowing me away. Jerome Opena might now be favorite artist out there, the guy is just silly how good he is. The biggest questiong we all seemed to have is what the hell was Deadpool doing in the book and how the hell were they going to use him. He fits in better then anyone ever expected, and Remender has put the BADASS back in him, and even gave the loony bird a concious. Deadpool is just what he's supposed to be in the book, but other then him, the real rising star is Fantomex. Looks like he's going to get the leadership tag to the book as well. With Wolverine going to become a principal of sorts at the school, it looks like he might put on the roll Cyclops did in X-Force vol. 3. "I was hoping we can keep this between us, I'd hate to lose my teaching job." What do you people think? How is this book in your eyes, and is it me, or is this the best X book written in a decade or more?" Screw Geof Johns, Remender needs to win best writer for what he's doing on this book alone.

I agree. I really enjoy Uncanny X-Force.

@The Dark Huntress said:

Ugh, Bendis. X-Force was absolutely amazing. Pretty much unparalleled creative team. UXF is damn good, but doesn't quite love up to it, IMO.

I still haven't read Vol. 2 :( I suck haha.

To your Bendis comment, I truly, truly, truly hope he doesn't ruin Storm now that she is joining the Avengers! :(

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

X-Force was great, but its main strength was how terrible everything else was. On its own merits, it's good, but nothing too spectacular. Look at in terms of how the X-Franchise has been in general in recent times, and it's phenomenal. It's the same for UXF. Good, not great, but standing in a pile of crap, looks amazing.

Hahaha, it's funny because no-one can write the X-men... Dear oh dear.

#18 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@goldenkey said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: I don't want to say that comment is just out right bullshit, but I don't agree. For one the art was incredible and there's no denying that, but like all monthly titles that run for, what was it, 30 something before becoming Uncanny X-Force, it's going to have great stories, and few okay or even bad stories. It had it's down moments for sure, even parts that, after ending, didn't even need to be included. What it ended up essentially becoming tho was a maxi-series. It kept going and going. In fact afater Bastion coming back in the first arch, and then Bastion bring back all those villains, Creed, Hodges, Peirce, Stryker, etc. You know you couldn't wait to see just where it was going to go. Well, it took almost 2 years before we found out where it went, it went to Second Coming, and I personally just loved Second Coming. One of the coolest thing written in that first arch was when Wolverine told Cyclops, after chasing Bastion and seeing all those dead villains standing there TOGETHER something along the lines of "It was like seeing 10 of your worst nightmares standing there together" I forgot exactly what writtern (now I gotta look it up). Sure the other X titles might have been lacking, but to say that X-Force was good because the other books were so bad is...............I change my mind, I am saying it outright, BULLSHIT. Give credit where it's due. It deserves it, and Uncanny derserves it too. One thing that leaves me questioning tho, is that after seeing how cool and dark the art was, that that particular style hasn't taken off more. Obviously, if the book was able to come out monthly, it's not to difficult to repeat.

I didn't say it wasn't a good series, it was. But it wasn't the be-all and end-all of X-Men series as some people claim. It was enjoyable, and a very well done piece of entertainment, but it wasn't anything great (great being things like Batman R.I.P, Watchmen, etc..)
#19 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3940 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@goldenkey said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: I don't want to say that comment is just out right bullshit, but I don't agree. For one the art was incredible and there's no denying that, but like all monthly titles that run for, what was it, 30 something before becoming Uncanny X-Force, it's going to have great stories, and few okay or even bad stories. It had it's down moments for sure, even parts that, after ending, didn't even need to be included. What it ended up essentially becoming tho was a maxi-series. It kept going and going. In fact afater Bastion coming back in the first arch, and then Bastion bring back all those villains, Creed, Hodges, Peirce, Stryker, etc. You know you couldn't wait to see just where it was going to go. Well, it took almost 2 years before we found out where it went, it went to Second Coming, and I personally just loved Second Coming. One of the coolest thing written in that first arch was when Wolverine told Cyclops, after chasing Bastion and seeing all those dead villains standing there TOGETHER something along the lines of "It was like seeing 10 of your worst nightmares standing there together" I forgot exactly what writtern (now I gotta look it up). Sure the other X titles might have been lacking, but to say that X-Force was good because the other books were so bad is...............I change my mind, I am saying it outright, BULLSHIT. Give credit where it's due. It deserves it, and Uncanny derserves it too. One thing that leaves me questioning tho, is that after seeing how cool and dark the art was, that that particular style hasn't taken off more. Obviously, if the book was able to come out monthly, it's not to difficult to repeat.

I didn't say it wasn't a good series, it was. But it wasn't the be-all and end-all of X-Men series as some people claim. It was enjoyable, and a very well done piece of entertainment, but it wasn't anything great (great being things like Batman R.I.P, Watchmen, etc..)

Your standards are so high :P

#20 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hawkeye446: Yup, which is why I'm miserable and alone haha
#21 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3940 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446: Yup, which is why I'm miserable and alone haha

Hahaha! How do you feel about Bendis getting his claws into Storm?

#22 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hawkeye446 said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446: Yup, which is why I'm miserable and alone haha

Hahaha! How do you feel about Bendis getting his claws into Storm?

I feel sorry for Storm and her fans lol
#23 Edited by Hawkeye446 (3940 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446: Yup, which is why I'm miserable and alone haha

Hahaha! How do you feel about Bendis getting his claws into Storm?

I feel sorry for Storm and her fans lol

Many Strom fans I am talking to don't know how destructive he is... I think I am worrying people :S

#24 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hawkeye446 said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446: Yup, which is why I'm miserable and alone haha

Hahaha! How do you feel about Bendis getting his claws into Storm?

I feel sorry for Storm and her fans lol

Many Strom fans I am talking to don't know how destructive he is... I think I am worrying people :S

They shall soon find out, when she's starting calling everyone "sista". 
#25 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3940 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446: Yup, which is why I'm miserable and alone haha

Hahaha! How do you feel about Bendis getting his claws into Storm?

I feel sorry for Storm and her fans lol

Many Strom fans I am talking to don't know how destructive he is... I think I am worrying people :S

They shall soon find out, when she's starting calling everyone "sista".

.... The prospects of it all.... Dear me...

DAMN I wish he wasn't writing this book.. sigh.

#26 Posted by SC (11979 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:
Ugh, Bendis. X-Force was absolutely amazing. Pretty much unparalleled creative team. UXF is damn good, but doesn't quite love up to it, IMO.
 
 
I agree with this. Rick Remender is a great writer, I just don't consider him a great X-Men writer. I consider him a alright to good X-Writer. His interviews on X-Characters and writing of many of them, leads me to believe he only knows them from movies and cartoons. Writers like K&Y, Carey, I know they have read a whole lot of X-Books and thus a deep understanding of them. As far as surface reading of his characters, its pretty good, but his characterization and continuity is a bit off. I do like where he has taken Deadpool though, and... a few other things. AOA stuff has been fun. Its inferior for me though to X-Force. (still good though. 
Moderator
#27 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
@The Dark Huntress said:
Ugh, Bendis. X-Force was absolutely amazing. Pretty much unparalleled creative team. UXF is damn good, but doesn't quite love up to it, IMO.
  I agree with this. Rick Remender is a great writer, I just don't consider him a great X-Men writer. I consider him a alright to good X-Writer. His interviews on X-Characters and writing of many of them, leads me to believe he only knows them from movies and cartoons. Writers like K&Y, Carey, I know they have read a whole lot of X-Books and thus a deep understanding of them. As far as surface reading of his characters, its pretty good, but his characterization and continuity is a bit off. I do like where he has taken Deadpool though, and... a few other things. AOA stuff has been fun. Its inferior for me though to X-Force. (still good though. 
I agree.
#28 Posted by Daycrawler (550 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

@The Dark Huntress said:
Ugh, Bendis. X-Force was absolutely amazing. Pretty much unparalleled creative team. UXF is damn good, but doesn't quite love up to it, IMO.
I agree with this. Rick Remender is a great writer, I just don't consider him a great X-Men writer. I consider him a alright to good X-Writer. His interviews on X-Characters and writing of many of them, leads me to believe he only knows them from movies and cartoons. Writers like K&Y, Carey, I know they have read a whole lot of X-Books and thus a deep understanding of them. As far as surface reading of his characters, its pretty good, but his characterization and continuity is a bit off. I do like where he has taken Deadpool though, and... a few other things. AOA stuff has been fun. Its inferior for me though to X-Force. (still good though.

I have to disagree!

Remender's style of storytelling is much more fluid and well paced, and the quality has yet to dip below excellent. UXF also has a way more consistent and less cartoonish team of artists working on it. Don't get me wrong, I loved Kyle and Yosts X-Force too, but there were too many things that knocked it down a notch for me, when compared to UXF.

Clayton Crain's art was way too cartoon-like and murky for my tastes and distracted/detracted from the tale being told. It was difficult to tell what was going on sometimes, especially during the horrible Necrosha chapters.

The whole use of Rahne beyond the initial arc was pointless to me to. All that guff with Hrimhari was pretty much redundant to the main plots and was a bit off in terms of tone from the gritty, sci-fi-esque tone of the book. It wasn't even properly resolved until she joined X-Factor for feck sake! Similar complaints about the whole Warpath/Ghost Rider stuff to, though it at least had a more direct if contrived connection to the main plot. Just seemed a bit to co-incidental and like an excuse to shoe-horn in a guest appearance from Ghost Rider.

The Necrosha arc started off really well but quickly slid into a big, meaningless fight-fest that interrupted the much more interesting Bastion story. Could have done without this completely!

I have to defend Remender's characterisation on UXF too. I reckon he's got Wolverine and Fantomex pretty spot on and his take on Archangel is pretty amazing too. As other's have stated, he's also revived Deadpool's credibility, making him more than just a one note joke. Can't think of any characterization inconsistencies to be honest. Also, curious to see what you think is off continuity-wise cos I can't think of anything (I do have a shockingly bad memory tho!).

#29 Posted by SC (11979 posts) - - Show Bio
@Daycrawler said:

I have to disagree!

Remender's style of storytelling is much more fluid and well paced, and the quality has yet to dip below excellent. UXF also has a way more consistent and less cartoonish team of artists working on it. Don't get me wrong, I loved Kyle and Yosts X-Force too, but there were too many things that knocked it down a notch for me, when compared to UXF.

Clayton Crain's art was way too cartoon-like and murky for my tastes and distracted/detracted from the tale being told. It was difficult to tell what was going on sometimes, especially during the horrible Necrosha chapters.

The whole use of Rahne beyond the initial arc was pointless to me to. All that guff with Hrimhari was pretty much redundant to the main plots and was a bit off in terms of tone from the gritty, sci-fi-esque tone of the book. It wasn't even properly resolved until she joined X-Factor for feck sake! Similar complaints about the whole Warpath/Ghost Rider stuff to, though it at least had a more direct if contrived connection to the main plot. Just seemed a bit to co-incidental and like an excuse to shoe-horn in a guest appearance from Ghost Rider.

The Necrosha arc started off really well but quickly slid into a big, meaningless fight-fest that interrupted the much more interesting Bastion story. Could have done without this completely!

I have to defend Remender's characterisation on UXF too. I reckon he's got Wolverine and Fantomex pretty spot on and his take on Archangel is pretty amazing too. As other's have stated, he's also revived Deadpool's credibility, making him more than just a one note joke. Can't think of any characterization inconsistencies to be honest. Also, curious to see what you think is off continuity-wise cos I can't think of anything (I do have a shockingly bad memory tho!).

 
You are allowed to disagree *smile*  
 
Except all your points thereafter are pretty much entirely subjective lol. *scratches head* so I am not sure what you want me to say? Disagree and then add a bunch of my own opinions?  
 
All these characters in his book bar Fantomex (who I find different to how Morrison wrote, alright, but just a different character) characterization is so broad it should be easy to get "spot on" but that doesn't mean its good, since good has degrees (it might not for you though) oh well how about this, when asked about the changes he made to Psylocke's power set again without explaining in story, he just replied he changed it because he wanted to? That's not good enough for me, I prefer writers to not just randomly change characters to suit them. Or if its important to change, give a reason. 
Moderator
#30 Posted by BloodTalon (413 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress: I meant the story where Hope came back and and Nightcrawler died if that was second coming then yes

#31 Posted by Daycrawler (550 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

@Daycrawler said:

I have to disagree!

Remender's style of storytelling is much more fluid and well paced, and the quality has yet to dip below excellent. UXF also has a way more consistent and less cartoonish team of artists working on it. Don't get me wrong, I loved Kyle and Yosts X-Force too, but there were too many things that knocked it down a notch for me, when compared to UXF.

Clayton Crain's art was way too cartoon-like and murky for my tastes and distracted/detracted from the tale being told. It was difficult to tell what was going on sometimes, especially during the horrible Necrosha chapters.

The whole use of Rahne beyond the initial arc was pointless to me to. All that guff with Hrimhari was pretty much redundant to the main plots and was a bit off in terms of tone from the gritty, sci-fi-esque tone of the book. It wasn't even properly resolved until she joined X-Factor for feck sake! Similar complaints about the whole Warpath/Ghost Rider stuff to, though it at least had a more direct if contrived connection to the main plot. Just seemed a bit to co-incidental and like an excuse to shoe-horn in a guest appearance from Ghost Rider.

The Necrosha arc started off really well but quickly slid into a big, meaningless fight-fest that interrupted the much more interesting Bastion story. Could have done without this completely!

I have to defend Remender's characterisation on UXF too. I reckon he's got Wolverine and Fantomex pretty spot on and his take on Archangel is pretty amazing too. As other's have stated, he's also revived Deadpool's credibility, making him more than just a one note joke. Can't think of any characterization inconsistencies to be honest. Also, curious to see what you think is off continuity-wise cos I can't think of anything (I do have a shockingly bad memory tho!).

You are allowed to disagree *smile* Except all your points thereafter are pretty much entirely subjective lol. *scratches head* so I am not sure what you want me to say? Disagree and then add a bunch of my own opinions? All these characters in his book bar Fantomex (who I find different to how Morrison wrote, alright, but just a different character) characterization is so broad it should be easy to get "spot on" but that doesn't mean its good, since good has degrees (it might not for you though) oh well how about this, when asked about the changes he made to Psylocke's power set again without explaining in story, he just replied he changed it because he wanted to? That's not good enough for me, I prefer writers to not just randomly change characters to suit them. Or if its important to change, give a reason.

Glad it's cool to disagree :O)

You started all the subjectivity gubbins when you said Remender was okay as a writer and you thought Kyle & Yost's version of X-Force was better. I just countered that subjective view-point with my own, albeit in a bit more detail! Wasn't wanting to start a "my opinion's better/more valid than yours" kinda thread. Was really just looking for a deeper look into your reasons on preferring Kyle & Yost over Remender (it's not just over characterization is it? I've read loads of stuff where this is a bit off, but the story is still face meltingly good!). Is it not the point to of forums to be a medium where subjective opinions are offered up? Who knows, I may agree with ya on some! Guess I just enjoy chewing over stories and getting other peoples opinions on them, regardless of whether or not they match mine.

I agree with you re: Psylockes power set under Remender, (told you I had a crappy memory!) though I don't care too much to be honest. Consistency would be great, but I can think of worse cases and crimes against continuity that reeeaaallly to bug me (the handling of the Inhumans between Silent War and Secret Invasion. Way to many plot points/character traits glossed over in the transition - Grrrr).

#32 Posted by SC (11979 posts) - - Show Bio
@Daycrawler said:

Glad it's cool to disagree :O)

You started all the subjectivity gubbins when you said Remender was okay as a writer and you thought Kyle & Yost's version of X-Force was better. I just countered that subjective view-point with my own, albeit in a bit more detail! Wasn't wanting to start a "my opinion's better/more valid than yours" kinda thread. Was really just looking for a deeper look into your reasons on preferring Kyle & Yost over Remender (it's not just over characterization is it? I've read loads of stuff where this is a bit off, but the story is still face meltingly good!). Is it not the point to of forums to be a medium where subjective opinions are offered up? Who knows, I may agree with ya on some! Guess I just enjoy chewing over stories and getting other peoples opinions on them, regardless of whether or not they match mine.

I agree with you re: Psylockes power set under Remender, (told you I had a crappy memory!) though I don't care too much to be honest. Consistency would be great, but I can think of worse cases and crimes against continuity that reeeaaallly to bug me (the handling of the Inhumans between Silent War and Secret Invasion. Way to many plot points/character traits glossed over in the transition - Grrrr).

 
Oh I see, well my writer comment is some writers are good writers, like... Matt Fraction is a good writer? His indie work is fantastic, but his work with established franchises is... it sells but to a certain type of reader that sustains it. Typically your non serious comic fan Most comics sort of tend to deal with matters of continuity and characterization. Doesn't play to Fractions strength as a writer. I find Kyle & Yost superior comic writers, to Remender, because they know continuity and characterization like its the back of their hand. It shows in their work and in their interviews. A few weeks back, all this sites Storm and Gambit fans were baffled when Remender barely seemed to release how close and tight Storm and Gambit have always been as characters. One of X-Men's strongest friendships, and chances are you might only know this by being a fan of X-Books and haven't read a lot of both characters. So it was easy to spot his answer about whether those two characters trusting each other as suspect, now in the grand scheme of things thats alright... he hasn't written 616 Gambit or Storm yet, but otherwise... a bit of a worry. He could probably write pretty good versions of those characters, because he can get the basics right, but Kyle and Yost really, really get the characters. They can fill issues with little in jokes and references to stories from decades ago without interrupting the flow of the story (to me). They can write big name characters well and minor characters well.  
 
To me, that Remender opts to go for a basically all star cast isn't a bad thing, but doesn't feel as organic to me. The book has become more generic as a result (still a good book, but as far as comparisons go) but the unique quality the book had is gone, replaced with a relatively original book, just to me, not as original.  
 
His characterization I still think is good, but its not as refined to me. I think its mainly down to how familiar he is with the characters. Like I agree he id doing Deadpool really well, but I'd wager/wonder if he had read any Nicieza/Kelly - or is just writing the character the way he thought he should (which is still good - but sort of a lucky guess) Like Jason Aaron would be the one in Wolverine's solo book nailing his characterization best, and I think certain writers do better than others, like I think Carey writes a superior Psylocke to Remender, I think Yost writer a better Psylocke as well (her mini) I find Remender is regressing her - does an alright job, but my expectations are higher.  
 
Oh lol tis okay, I have a bad memory too generally *smile* Oh and understandable, that you don't care, its just one of those fan preference things. I love consistency. I find Remender goes for the iconic type approach, Kyle and Yost were more progressive. Hell, they even gave some major resolution to Warpath's character which as a long time fan of X-Stories, was great. Compare this to Remender (who to sound like broken record I am enjoying his writing and stories) absolves Betsy of the resolution of her last mini and of looking forward to new stories? Yet now in Uncanny X-Force she is back to being in angst love romantic stuff with Warren again. Almost it seems to help aid the Fantomex character develop. Just seems bleh.  
 
Most of my fav parts of Remender's run has possibly been his original new characters lol and that is something a writer should find easy to do. Except I find there are already far too many X-Characters underused and Kyle and Yost would bring in so many cool and random characters from X-Men history to use in stories. That sort of dedication I appreciate. Aside from demonstrating they know their history its just fun seeing such characters turn up.  
 
Hope that helps? *smile* Sorry if I seemed unwilling to give my opinions, I just wasn't sure what you were looking for. 
Moderator
#33 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29331 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446 said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Hawkeye446: Yup, which is why I'm miserable and alone haha

Hahaha! How do you feel about Bendis getting his claws into Storm?

I feel sorry for Storm and her fans lol

Many Strom fans I am talking to don't know how destructive he is... I think I am worrying people :S

They shall soon find out, when she's starting calling everyone "sista".

Now I desperately want this to happen, just to see the reaction on the Storm threads.

#34 Posted by Daycrawler (550 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

@Daycrawler said:

Glad it's cool to disagree :O)

You started all the subjectivity gubbins when you said Remender was okay as a writer and you thought Kyle & Yost's version of X-Force was better. I just countered that subjective view-point with my own, albeit in a bit more detail! Wasn't wanting to start a "my opinion's better/more valid than yours" kinda thread. Was really just looking for a deeper look into your reasons on preferring Kyle & Yost over Remender (it's not just over characterization is it? I've read loads of stuff where this is a bit off, but the story is still face meltingly good!). Is it not the point to of forums to be a medium where subjective opinions are offered up? Who knows, I may agree with ya on some! Guess I just enjoy chewing over stories and getting other peoples opinions on them, regardless of whether or not they match mine.

I agree with you re: Psylockes power set under Remender, (told you I had a crappy memory!) though I don't care too much to be honest. Consistency would be great, but I can think of worse cases and crimes against continuity that reeeaaallly to bug me (the handling of the Inhumans between Silent War and Secret Invasion. Way to many plot points/character traits glossed over in the transition - Grrrr).

Oh I see, well my writer comment is some writers are good writers, like... Matt Fraction is a good writer? His indie work is fantastic, but his work with established franchises is... it sells but to a certain type of reader that sustains it. Typically your non serious comic fan Most comics sort of tend to deal with matters of continuity and characterization. Doesn't play to Fractions strength as a writer. I find Kyle & Yost superior comic writers, to Remender, because they know continuity and characterization like its the back of their hand. It shows in their work and in their interviews. A few weeks back, all this sites Storm and Gambit fans were baffled when Remender barely seemed to release how close and tight Storm and Gambit have always been as characters. One of X-Men's strongest friendships, and chances are you might only know this by being a fan of X-Books and haven't read a lot of both characters. So it was easy to spot his answer about whether those two characters trusting each other as suspect, now in the grand scheme of things thats alright... he hasn't written 616 Gambit or Storm yet, but otherwise... a bit of a worry. He could probably write pretty good versions of those characters, because he can get the basics right, but Kyle and Yost really, really get the characters. They can fill issues with little in jokes and references to stories from decades ago without interrupting the flow of the story (to me). They can write big name characters well and minor characters well. To me, that Remender opts to go for a basically all star cast isn't a bad thing, but doesn't feel as organic to me. The book has become more generic as a result (still a good book, but as far as comparisons go) but the unique quality the book had is gone, replaced with a relatively original book, just to me, not as original. His characterization I still think is good, but its not as refined to me. I think its mainly down to how familiar he is with the characters. Like I agree he id doing Deadpool really well, but I'd wager/wonder if he had read any Nicieza/Kelly - or is just writing the character the way he thought he should (which is still good - but sort of a lucky guess) Like Jason Aaron would be the one in Wolverine's solo book nailing his characterization best, and I think certain writers do better than others, like I think Carey writes a superior Psylocke to Remender, I think Yost writer a better Psylocke as well (her mini) I find Remender is regressing her - does an alright job, but my expectations are higher. Oh lol tis okay, I have a bad memory too generally *smile* Oh and understandable, that you don't care, its just one of those fan preference things. I love consistency. I find Remender goes for the iconic type approach, Kyle and Yost were more progressive. Hell, they even gave some major resolution to Warpath's character which as a long time fan of X-Stories, was great. Compare this to Remender (who to sound like broken record I am enjoying his writing and stories) absolves Betsy of the resolution of her last mini and of looking forward to new stories? Yet now in Uncanny X-Force she is back to being in angst love romantic stuff with Warren again. Almost it seems to help aid the Fantomex character develop. Just seems bleh. Most of my fav parts of Remender's run has possibly been his original new characters lol and that is something a writer should find easy to do. Except I find there are already far too many X-Characters underused and Kyle and Yost would bring in so many cool and random characters from X-Men history to use in stories. That sort of dedication I appreciate. Aside from demonstrating they know their history its just fun seeing such characters turn up. Hope that helps? *smile* Sorry if I seemed unwilling to give my opinions, I just wasn't sure what you were looking for.

This is the first Stuff that Remender's written that I've read and I'll confess that perhaps I'm getting really wrapped up in the story and not noticing the small things that are out character-wise (like Psylocke). Not read Pyslocke mini, though I plan to, so perhaps it would;ve bugged me more than it has if I'd read this. Still think that Remender is servicing the fans by serving up some continuity driven stuff though,like all the AOA stuff, or digging deeper into the Fantomex/World/Weapon plus stuff and serving up a mean Archangel. Also, perhaps it's no bad thing that he's not an X-expert (shoulda just said X-pert!) as writers can become too entangled in X-Men history and sevicing fan-boys at the expense of a good story. I hasten to add that I'm in no way accusing Kyle and Yost of this as they got the balance spot on. Perhaps what's got me at a disadvantage in noticing all this stuff is that I went from 70/80's X-Men straight to 2000's and skipped the 90's, largely cos I'd heard bad things about that period. Plan to read through that era at some point though! Not saying Remender is perfect though - Still miss Domino in the squad, and Vanisher! Agree that K&Y's team was more varied and balanced. Like your reasoning - given me food for thought and a desire to re-read K&Y's run now. :D

#35 Posted by Hawkeye446 (3940 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC: I can understand what you mean. However, I don't believe Psylockes interpretation has been too bad. I mean, it seems to me like he is really giving it a shot at trying to make her stand out as a character. I mean, if you think about, she is really the centre piece of the UXF team. He seems to base a lot of the main events in the book to her IMO.

I wasn't actually disagreeing with you.. I don't really know what that was... lol....

#36 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm interested to see what happens with Psylocke. If they took her out, it'd be a knobfest and no one wants that (though I'm not entirely sure if Deadpool has a knob hardy har har).

#37 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC: Remender also didn't seem to realize that AOA Gambit used throwing knives instead of cards, and he gave up his love for Rogue in exchange for a shard of the M'Kraan Crystal. *shrugs*

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