X-23/Hellion, should they be together ???

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#1 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18384 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to hear your thoughts about this. should they be together

#2 Posted by Steps (657 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of X23-Hellion fanboys around so you're not alone I believe.

#3 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18384 posts) - - Show Bio

@Steps: wouldn't say fanboy, but i'm a big fan

#4 Edited by Steps (657 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull: I never said you were. I was just answering your initial question before you edited your post.

#5 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18384 posts) - - Show Bio

@Steps: only edited because i did sound fanboyish ,and thx on the answer

#6 Posted by Steps (657 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure though if stay around here awhile you'll find other people just as interested in the X23-Hellion thing. Usually you figure these out as you go and have casual talk with the rest of the members.

#7 Posted by Purgy (419 posts) - - Show Bio

All i can say it's up to the writer, but maybe i can still work between those two. I though it was one of those put together relationship, but that's just me

#8 Posted by Steps (657 posts) - - Show Bio

Me I liked the way it initially developed back in the New Xmen series but I haven't followed up on X23 to see whether or not I still accept the two as a nice couple. Part of me will still see Julian with Sofia.

#9 Edited by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

No ,really ,he is one big douchbag.

He love himself the most from what i see ,and he probably think that X-men can't without him.

There will be better characters for Laura in future ,be patient.

and if this is what fans are lookging for ,X-23 and New X-men's tittle will still exist.

#10 Edited by AgeofHurricane (7306 posts) - - Show Bio

NO.

The Hellion and X-23 pairing is what you'd refer to as an utterly forced relationship. Hellion's true soulmate is Sofia Mantega.

#11 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

Not really. In general I believe Laura is a character that does not need to be in a relationship no time soon at all.

#12 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18384 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane: maybe, but we haven't seen anything happen between Julian and Sofia for a long time. i personally thought that everything was over between them.

#13 Posted by SoA (5149 posts) - - Show Bio

i thought sofia was shot turns out shes in comic limbo(that's worse) yes hellion and laura should be together ... eventually , their kid will be awesome

#14 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7306 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull said:

@AgeofHurricane: maybe, but we haven't seen anything happen between Julian and Sofia for a long time. i personally thought that everything was over between them.

Because Kyle and Yost decided to shuv her out the picture in order to place the character that they themselves created as the leading X-Girl, we haven't seen much of Sofia because Weir and her husband aren't here to bring things back to the way they were. Sofia is Julian's one and only true love. Laura was a girl that was forced on him, you have no idea how HAPPY i am that their forced relationship has now been destroyed.

#15 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane said:

NO.

The Hellion and X-23 pairing is what you'd refer to as an utterly forced relationship. Hellion's true soulmate is Sofia Mantega.

I was going to call you at bro, lmao.

But yeah, me and AoH are pretty much the only outspoken Hellion x Wind Dancer shippers xD

#16 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18384 posts) - - Show Bio

@AgeofHurricane: If x-23 and helix ever get together, i wouldn't want to be around you.(only joking, don't take this the wrong way)

#17 Posted by Mercy_ (92997 posts) - - Show Bio

Absolutely not.

@ReVamp said:

@AgeofHurricane said:

NO.

The Hellion and X-23 pairing is what you'd refer to as an utterly forced relationship. Hellion's true soulmate is Sofia Mantega.

I was going to call you at bro, lmao.

But yeah, me and AoH are pretty much the only outspoken Hellion x Wind Dancer shippers xD

I LOVE THEM. Just re-read New X-Men last week and my love for that ship has been renewed (as has my aversion to the X-23/Hellion ship).

Moderator
#18 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

I LOVE THEM. Just re-read New X-Men last week and my love for that ship has been renewed (as has my aversion to the X-23/Hellion ship).

They were pretty great. The X and Hellion relationship was pretty interesting because it was exploring it somewhat like the Jean Grey and Wolverine relationship, but it lost its luster when it was forgotten by writers and when it came back Liu just f*cked it up on a whole other level.

#19 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7306 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: @The Dark Huntress:

Jufia for life ! <3

"Beautiful"

And for the Helix people, my apologies for the unfathomable hate i have towards the pairing in question, it just says forced to me no matter who's writing it.

*cough !*

I swear if she doesn't get repowered some time after AvX....-_-.

#20 Posted by War Killer (20376 posts) - - Show Bio

Never liked Hellion or their relationship...sooooo, no. :)

#21 Posted by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull said:

I want to hear your thoughts about this. should they be together

Allow my 40ish fanfics to chime in: of course, why ask such a silly question? :oP

~the queen of Helix

#22 Posted by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: @x_29: @AgeofHurricane: @War Killer:

So glad have so may people agree.

#23 Posted by rokusan23 (146 posts) - - Show Bio

There is just one arc where you'd ship two characters forever. I still say they're interesting but... you know. Liu made it somewhat final that she wouldn't ever want him. I think. Sofia brought out some good qualities out of him, but she's in obscurity too bad.

#24 Posted by Mercy_ (92997 posts) - - Show Bio

Anybody else find it kind of sad/weird/odd that Laura started out as the creepy stalker and Julian ended up that way?

I overall LOVED Liu's run, especially what she did with Gambit, but Marvel seems intent on trolling the hell out of Hellion (no pun intended) and the way that he was written was a travesty.

Moderator
#25 Posted by Purgy (419 posts) - - Show Bio

Well they might bring her back, you never know.

#26 Posted by Illuminatus (9510 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Laura and Fantomsex should get together.

#27 Posted by doomsilver (643 posts) - - Show Bio

i liked it the bully/messed up thing worked for them (in my opinion) respect the wind dancer one though

#28 Posted by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@doomsilver:

She should killed the bully ,all bully burn in hell ,no one should stand with bully or agree their action.

#29 Posted by Gawdzilla (376 posts) - - Show Bio

@ka385385 said:

@doomsilver:

She should killed the bully ,all bully burn in hell ,no one should stand with bully or agree their action.

Still can't see to comprehend that people can changed smh

#30 Posted by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gawdzilla:

Pride is something born to have ,can't change ,as matter of fact i can't see that guy want to change anyway.

still ,glad X-23 finally leave him totally ,thanks to Liu.

#31 Posted by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@ka385385 said:

@doomsilver:

She should killed the bully ,all bully burn in hell ,no one should stand with bully or agree their action.

So you're saying you condone murder based on an individual's personality. I hope you never pursue a legal career. The way you speak, you kind of come off as a bully to bullies--constantly picking on them, unwilling to be accepting that perhaps their backgrounds affect who they are (a big sign of being a bully...picking on someone for say stuttering and not caring what their background and reasons might be).

Thankfully, I love irony, so it's kind of entertaining.

@ka385385 said:

@Gawdzilla:

Pride is something born to have ,can't change ,as matter of fact i can't see that guy want to change anyway.

still ,glad X-23 finally leave him totally ,thanks to Liu.

Pride is something you are born with? There are those who would disagree with you quite severely. Ever heard of the term "Tabula Rasa" in psychology? Here's a wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa . This is the theory that we are all born as blank slates and everything we become since birth is obtained through experience and perception, namely observation of our elders. This is related to the nature/nuture argument, Nature voting for 'Who we are comes from our heritage in genetic terms' and Nuture arguing that 'We are what we learn'. Modern psychology is a blend of this theory, so you can't just rule out the Nuture argument. Seeing the actions of your parents and other elders has a great effect on who you are, and in Julian' case his parents were uppity rich snobs who basically made deals with the devil (or a lesser form of the devil...Kingmaker). If you'd read Hellion's background and applied objective thinking, you would probably understand that the world is not as black and white as you are making it out to be.

Also, let's argue your point that 'he won't change'. People are dynamic, and constantly changing. No one ever stays the same throughout their lifetime. Are you the same person you were at the age of five? I can guarantee that you are not. You have learned a lot over the course of your life, and have changed to better use that information and your experiences. Similarly, Hellion has also been proven to have changed, in most of the comics he appears in (his long-run appearances anyway).

I've already made my views on Liu's run clear, so I won't bother with that point. It's a matter of opinion.

And there you have it, back to my homework.

#32 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

Anybody else find it kind of sad/weird/odd that Laura started out as the creepy stalker and Julian ended up that way?

I overall LOVED Liu's run, especially what she did with Gambit, but Marvel seems intent on trolling the hell out of Hellion (no pun intended) and the way that he was written was a travesty.

I found it highly irritating.

Oh, Huntress....

#33 Posted by SC (13307 posts) - - Show Bio

Sort of reminds me of Rogue/Gambit and Emma/Cyclops. In that I like X-23 and Hellion (like I like all the former characters, but in each case, the female character a bit more), and there has been some good writing between all those couples, but this is comics. Relationships between two comic characters can be used as a catalyst to promote both characters, a catalyst for the plot, and a device used to put an individual character in situations that can reveal new or undeveloped facets of that character. Except there are points and there are writers that writing of the relationship can be lacking of benefits for one or both characters. Even then, especially in a team book, it can get boring. Especially if the characters weren't designed to be with the other character or didn't have a writer write them together for 10 plus years. On the flip side of the benefits, as well as just risks, there are many. Character regression, character being shoehorned or written as one dimensional and - a lot more.  
 
I think both Hellion and X-23 need room to grow/ Plus this is the age of Editorially mandated comics. Would not be surprised as with most solo book characters, Liu was told to cut the strings attaching the characters, since 'traditionally' thats how the cards fall for most solo characters with books. Its a projection thing. Probably her plan anyway, but wa sprobably going to happen no matter the writer.   

Moderator
#34 Posted by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

Sort of reminds me of Rogue/Gambit and Emma/Cyclops. In that I like X-23 and Hellion (like I like all the former characters, but in each case, the female character a bit more), and there has been some good writing between all those couples, but this is comics. Relationships between two comic characters can be used as a catalyst to promote both characters, a catalyst for the plot, and a device used to put an individual character in situations that can reveal new or undeveloped facets of that character. Except there are points and there are writers that writing of the relationship can be lacking of benefits for one or both characters. Even then, especially in a team book, it can get boring. Especially if the characters weren't designed to be with the other character or didn't have a writer write them together for 10 plus years. On the flip side of the benefits, as well as just risks, there are many. Character regression, character being shoehorned or written as one dimensional and - a lot more. I think both Hellion and X-23 need room to grow/ Plus this is the age of Editorially mandated comics. Would not be surprised as with most solo book characters, Liu was told to cut the strings attaching the characters, since 'traditionally' thats how the cards fall for most solo characters with books. Its a projection thing. Probably her plan anyway, but wa sprobably going to happen no matter the writer.

The issue for most fans is not that she did it, but how she went about it. As I've said before, she forced the characters to act out of the norm. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and failing, but instead of looking for a matching square hole, you shave off the corners of the square to force it to fit. Just doesn't seem right. There are lots of other reasons she could have had them break up, based on their characters. It would have been more fitting--for instance--for Julian to be the one that backed out, because he felt scared by Laura. It was just weird to have him act like a lovesick puppy and Laura very suddenly acting like he didn't mean anything to her romantically, almost between issues. Their attraction and loyalty to each other has been established quite a few times before, so it feels unnatural that Liu seemed to throw this away like it meant nothing.

I am well aware that the relationship had to end since Laura's book was ending and she was joining AA. My major beef has been--as I said--that the way it was done made for a lousy read. And I happen to care about how it was done because they are both my favorite characters, and I don't like seeing them suffering from crappy writing, especially since I followed the pairing for a long time. I wanted justice to be done to it, at least. This was a very lack-luster ending.

#35 Posted by SC (13307 posts) - - Show Bio
@k2 said:

@SC said:

Sort of reminds me of Rogue/Gambit and Emma/Cyclops. In that I like X-23 and Hellion (like I like all the former characters, but in each case, the female character a bit more), and there has been some good writing between all those couples, but this is comics. Relationships between two comic characters can be used as a catalyst to promote both characters, a catalyst for the plot, and a device used to put an individual character in situations that can reveal new or undeveloped facets of that character. Except there are points and there are writers that writing of the relationship can be lacking of benefits for one or both characters. Even then, especially in a team book, it can get boring. Especially if the characters weren't designed to be with the other character or didn't have a writer write them together for 10 plus years. On the flip side of the benefits, as well as just risks, there are many. Character regression, character being shoehorned or written as one dimensional and - a lot more. I think both Hellion and X-23 need room to grow/ Plus this is the age of Editorially mandated comics. Would not be surprised as with most solo book characters, Liu was told to cut the strings attaching the characters, since 'traditionally' thats how the cards fall for most solo characters with books. Its a projection thing. Probably her plan anyway, but wa sprobably going to happen no matter the writer.

The issue for most fans is not that she did it, but how she went about it. As I've said before, she forced the characters to act out of the norm. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and failing, but instead of looking for a matching square hole, you shave off the corners of the square to force it to fit. Just doesn't seem right. There are lots of other reasons she could have had them break up, based on their characters. It would have been more fitting--for instance--for Julian to be the one that backed out, because he felt scared by Laura. It was just weird to have him act like a lovesick puppy and Laura very suddenly acting like he didn't mean anything to her romantically, almost between issues. Their attraction and loyalty to each other has been established quite a few times before, so it feels unnatural that Liu seemed to throw this away like it meant nothing.

I am well aware that the relationship had to end since Laura's book was ending and she was joining AA. My major beef has been--as I said--that the way it was done made for a lousy read. And I happen to care about how it was done because they are both my favorite characters, and I don't like seeing them suffering from crappy writing, especially since I followed the pairing for a long time. I wanted justice to be done to it, at least. This was a very lack-luster ending.

 
Myself included, since its almost always about execution isn't it? Not what she did, but how she went about it? I don't think necessarily it means characters acting out of the norm, since characters generally tend to be pretty flexible, and so discretion applies, but lets say for fans of one character who are fans of that character for pretty consistent and fleshed out reasons, it can be annoying for minor aspects of that character to be focused on or introduced randomly in ways that could sincerely be distinguished as mischaracterization. I do not disagree there, so its really about characterization prioritization and Hellion was undermined here, then again, he is acting as a support here, and so he will be as you say, forced into an unnatural role to fulfill what the writer is trying to do with the focus character. In a similar way Karima Shapandar was fed to Hellion in Legacy to help advance his powers plot. (the two aren't the same, but an example of one support character feeding the development of a focus character)  
 
The relationship probably would have ended if X-23's book hadn't ended is my point. Its a general comic industry theory that more fans will relate to and enjoy solo characters who aren't tied down too heavily romantic wise. A X=23/Hellion romance subplot can work great in a team book, but solo books (and i am sure you are well aware of this and how most writers/editors tend to play it safe in this regard) Anyway great post, and I agree justice was not done by either character here. 
Moderator
#36 Posted by Gawdzilla (376 posts) - - Show Bio

@ka385385 said:

@Gawdzilla:

Pride is something born to have ,can't change ,as matter of fact i can't see that guy want to change anyway.

still ,glad X-23 finally leave him totally ,thanks to Liu.

Pride isn't always a bad thing.

Like in X-Men: Origins "Mutant and Proud"

#37 Posted by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@k2: @Gawdzilla:

In almost every list, pride (Latin, superbia), or hubris (Greek), is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and the source of the others. It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive than others, failing to acknowledge the good work of others, and excessive love of self (especially holding self out of proper position toward God). Dante's definition was "love of self perverted to hatred and contempt for one's neighbour." In Jacob Bidermann's medieval miracle play, Cenodoxus, pride is the deadliest of all the sins and leads directly to the damnation of the titulary famed Parisian doctor. In perhaps the best-known example, the story of Lucifer, pride (his desire to compete with God) was what caused his fall from Heaven, and his resultant transformation into Satan. In Dante's Divine Comedy, the penitents were forced to walk with stone slabs bearing down on their backs to induce feelings of humility.

You need to know that i have experience with trust what you said ,but in the end they all turn back who they are , stop trust that after all those years.

#38 Posted by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@ka385385 said:

@k2: @Gawdzilla:

In almost every list, pride (Latin, superbia), or hubris (Greek), is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and the source of the others. It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive than others, failing to acknowledge the good work of others, and excessive love of self (especially holding self out of proper position toward God). Dante's definition was "love of self perverted to hatred and contempt for one's neighbour." In Jacob Bidermann's medieval miracle play, Cenodoxus, pride is the deadliest of all the sins and leads directly to the damnation of the titulary famed Parisian doctor. In perhaps the best-known example, the story of Lucifer, pride (his desire to compete with God) was what caused his fall from Heaven, and his resultant transformation into Satan. In Dante's Divine Comedy, the penitents were forced to walk with stone slabs bearing down on their backs to induce feelings of humility.

You need to know that i have experience with trust what you said ,but in the end they all turn back who they are , stop trust that after all those years.

That doesn't address at all my point: people aren't born proud, it's an obtained quality...obtained through learned experiences.

@SC said:

@k2 said:

@SC said:

Sort of reminds me of Rogue/Gambit and Emma/Cyclops. In that I like X-23 and Hellion (like I like all the former characters, but in each case, the female character a bit more), and there has been some good writing between all those couples, but this is comics. Relationships between two comic characters can be used as a catalyst to promote both characters, a catalyst for the plot, and a device used to put an individual character in situations that can reveal new or undeveloped facets of that character. Except there are points and there are writers that writing of the relationship can be lacking of benefits for one or both characters. Even then, especially in a team book, it can get boring. Especially if the characters weren't designed to be with the other character or didn't have a writer write them together for 10 plus years. On the flip side of the benefits, as well as just risks, there are many. Character regression, character being shoehorned or written as one dimensional and - a lot more. I think both Hellion and X-23 need room to grow/ Plus this is the age of Editorially mandated comics. Would not be surprised as with most solo book characters, Liu was told to cut the strings attaching the characters, since 'traditionally' thats how the cards fall for most solo characters with books. Its a projection thing. Probably her plan anyway, but wa sprobably going to happen no matter the writer.

The issue for most fans is not that she did it, but how she went about it. As I've said before, she forced the characters to act out of the norm. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and failing, but instead of looking for a matching square hole, you shave off the corners of the square to force it to fit. Just doesn't seem right. There are lots of other reasons she could have had them break up, based on their characters. It would have been more fitting--for instance--for Julian to be the one that backed out, because he felt scared by Laura. It was just weird to have him act like a lovesick puppy and Laura very suddenly acting like he didn't mean anything to her romantically, almost between issues. Their attraction and loyalty to each other has been established quite a few times before, so it feels unnatural that Liu seemed to throw this away like it meant nothing.

I am well aware that the relationship had to end since Laura's book was ending and she was joining AA. My major beef has been--as I said--that the way it was done made for a lousy read. And I happen to care about how it was done because they are both my favorite characters, and I don't like seeing them suffering from crappy writing, especially since I followed the pairing for a long time. I wanted justice to be done to it, at least. This was a very lack-luster ending.

Myself included, since its almost always about execution isn't it? Not what she did, but how she went about it? I don't think necessarily it means characters acting out of the norm, since characters generally tend to be pretty flexible, and so discretion applies, but lets say for fans of one character who are fans of that character for pretty consistent and fleshed out reasons, it can be annoying for minor aspects of that character to be focused on or introduced randomly in ways that could sincerely be distinguished as mischaracterization. I do not disagree there, so its really about characterization prioritization and Hellion was undermined here, then again, he is acting as a support here, and so he will be as you say, forced into an unnatural role to fulfill what the writer is trying to do with the focus character. In a similar way Karima Shapandar was fed to Hellion in Legacy to help advance his powers plot. (the two aren't the same, but an example of one support character feeding the development of a focus character) The relationship probably would have ended if X-23's book hadn't ended is my point. Its a general comic industry theory that more fans will relate to and enjoy solo characters who aren't tied down too heavily romantic wise. A X=23/Hellion romance subplot can work great in a team book, but solo books (and i am sure you are well aware of this and how most writers/editors tend to play it safe in this regard) Anyway great post, and I agree justice was not done by either character here.

Too true...the writers and editors have a strange idea that good writing will scare off the readers. They haven't accepted that their audience does not entirely consist of 14 year old boys, and that good writing often SELLS. Take--for instance--the harry potter series. Not everyone is a fan, I'm sure...but a great majority of people are, and in my opinion that was some d**n good writing. And that was because Rowling had such a good grasp on real human nature, and a knack for making it entertaining. That's the kind of writing that sells...when people find a fictional world to be so believable that they can escape into it for a while.

Writing like the end of Liu's series did not have me escaping into another world. I just kept thinking 'what the--that doesn't add up' the whole time, as well as wondering about the plots she left hanging. :o(

#39 Posted by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@k2:

and that's what make people evil ,and also those brotherhood of evil mutant ,hellion more like in mangeto side.

world is not as black and white as you are making it out to be ,of crouse ,but after i telling myself that ,i realize sometime ,you just need to make the line between good and bad clear ,lots of people done somthing bad also because they think it's not "as bad as they thought" ,but as matter of fact ,wrong thing is wrong thing ,in some way at least.

#40 Posted by Gawdzilla (376 posts) - - Show Bio

If I win the The Gold Medal in the Olympics in archery I'm going to Proudly say I'm the best there is at what I do till someone beats me at it. And if that sends me to Hell then whatever. As Billy Joel once sang, "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints

The sinners are much more fun..." Being Humble is a great trait....but sometimes being too humble (i'm looking at you Tim Tebow) can make piss people off. Hell part of being a hero means you pride yourself at being better than the bad guy. Julian could have killed Kimura back in the NXM but he didn't' because he understood that being a hero you can't stoop yourself too going down to the level of the bad guy.

#41 Posted by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gawdzilla:

I don'y know who is Tim Tebow ,but you should also know some of those bad guys are made by this god damn society ,some good people with great soul being twist and turn into something terrible ,also because some people think they are better than the others ,which cause bully ,they insult and discourage those "outsiders" so they feel better and "pride".

Killing people doesn't make you bad guys ,some people be killed can protect innocent and make some people live a better life ,and that's also what X-23 think ,you are not thinking she will quit that ,right?

#42 Edited by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

I completely disagree with pride being considered the deadliest sin. I find little wrong with moderate arrogance, or even great arrogance when there's just reason to be so.

#43 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@John Valentine said:

I completely disagree with pride being considered the deadliest sin. I find little wrong with moderate arrogance, or even a lot of arrogance when there's just reason to be so.

Agreed. 
#44 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@John Valentine said:

I completely disagree with pride being considered the deadliest sin. I find little wrong with moderate arrogance, or even a lot of arrogance when there's just reason to be so.

Agreed.

And, I actually find it an endearing and somewhat relatable asset in Hellion. I can be at times pretty arrogant myself.

Hellion is deservedly arrogant. He's powerful, good looking, a good leader, heroic etc. He's just better than people. Second to that, it's the way he was brought up. He's the son of Californian billionaires.

#45 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@John Valentine said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@John Valentine said:

I completely disagree with pride being considered the deadliest sin. I find little wrong with moderate arrogance, or even a lot of arrogance when there's just reason to be so.

Agreed.

And, I actually find it an endearing and somewhat relatable asset in Hellion. I can be at times pretty arrogant myself.

Hellion is deservedly arrogant. He's powerful, good looking, a good leader, heroic etc. He's just better than people. Second to that, it's the way he was brought up. He's the son of Californian billionaires.

That and while he's proud, he's not overly douchey, which makes him a more rounded character than just being a humble piece of wallpaper or a pointless jerk. 
#46 Posted by John Valentine (16335 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@John Valentine said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@John Valentine said:

I completely disagree with pride being considered the deadliest sin. I find little wrong with moderate arrogance, or even a lot of arrogance when there's just reason to be so.

Agreed.

And, I actually find it an endearing and somewhat relatable asset in Hellion. I can be at times pretty arrogant myself.

Hellion is deservedly arrogant. He's powerful, good looking, a good leader, heroic etc. He's just better than people. Second to that, it's the way he was brought up. He's the son of Californian billionaires.

That and while he's proud, he's not overly douchey, which makes him a more rounded character than just being a humble piece of wallpaper or a pointless jerk.

True, he's very loyal to his friends.

#47 Posted by Gawdzilla (376 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@John Valentine said:

I completely disagree with pride being considered the deadliest sin. I find little wrong with moderate arrogance, or even a lot of arrogance when there's just reason to be so.

Agreed.

And, I actually find it an endearing and somewhat relatable asset in Hellion. I can be at times pretty arrogant myself.

Hellion is deservedly arrogant. He's powerful, good looking, a good leader, heroic etc. He's just better than people. Second to that, it's the way he was brought up. He's the son of Californian billionaires.

All Californians think we're better than the rest....its how we do things here on the West Coast :)

I've always said the best characters have a balance between positive and negative character traits

#48 Edited by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@ka385385 said:

@Gawdzilla:

Killing people doesn't make you bad guys ,some people be killed can protect innocent and make some people live a better life ,and that's also what X-23 think ,you are not thinking she will quit that ,right?

Killing people doesn't make you a bad guy? Really? You mean the law is wrong and I can just kill anyone who's rude or bullies me?

I think we've got a potential serial killer on our hands here.

Oh, and by the way...no, X-23 doesn't kill people that have not been shown to be working with the facility or the friends of humanity. She doesn't murder people for being bullies.

#49 Edited by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@k2:

I'm not talk bully in that part ,i was talk about alice's handler who killed by x-23.

Did those slodiers who killed bin Laden ,be called bad guys? No ,you people call them heroes.

So does those SWAT and Police people.

and let's not forget The Punisher ,he hate bully and maybe kill a few of them ,he is not bad guy but anti-hero.

And! How many school massacre happend becuase bully? Virginia Tech massacre ,Columbine High School massacre ,University of Iowa shooting etc.

Pride make people feel better than the other ,such as Hellion think mutant better than human ,some white men think they better than others ,and so many other racial discrimination.

Reinforcers are as disgracefull as bully ,most of people not bully ,but Reinforcers ,but they are the SAME.

And how did you think about Disabilit in mind (which mean not include hellion )? Did you think normal people better than them?

form what i see we are all the same ,everyone is equal.

#50 Posted by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt:

Not all pride are bad i know that ,but Hellion's prode are use to against the others ,which make him very douchey.

If you think humble people are piece of wallpaper or a pointless jerk ,than you don't know who is good guys at all.

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