X-23 should be a vegetable.

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Posted by PumpkinBomb (493 posts) - - Show Bio

 Let me preface this by stating that I'm a third-year Bio major currently taking graduate level courses in human genetics. I took a class this afternoon on epigenetics, and a couple of the things I learned brought X-23 to mind. I confirmed my suspicions with a bit of independent research on PubMed.
  
You cannot, biologically, make female clones of male humans.

 To cut a long paper short, X-23 has something called uniparental disomy for her maternal X chromosome (she has two copies of one of Wolverine's mother's X chromosomes, instead of a paternal and a maternal copy). For those of you who know anything about genetics, this is a very bad thing. The two copies you have of each chromosome are far from redundant. If they were, we'd have evolved monosomy long ago. In fact, you express a slightly different set of genes on each of them depending on whether you inherited it from your mother or your father. Your cells know which is which based on epigenetic modifications (addition of methyl or acetyl groups to the proteins around which your DNA is wrapped). See the problem? X-23 has two maternal X chromosomes.

 Now, a funny thing about girls is that having two X chromosomes in the first place is a little iffy. We guys get along just fine with only the one. So what happens is that one of a woman's two X chromosomes is inactivated in every cell in her body, at random. If you could scan a female's X chromosomes on Cerebra, she'd come up looking like a messy jigsaw puzzle in two colours. The silencing isn't complete, but it takes care of almost all the genes on the chromosome. This happens so that girls don't end up with twice the level of protein synthesis that guys do - which would be very bad thing indeed. By now you should have figured out where I'm going with this.

Geneticists have found from case studies that neither X chromosome gets inactivated in girls with maternal X isodisomy. The cells can't tell them apart, and so both hang around transcribing gene products. And to add to the problem, the fact that both X chromosomes are genetically and epigenetically identical means that the poor girl also manifests the problems associated with having only a single X chromosome (this is called Turner syndrome, and isn't so bad in comparison; you end up with a weird-looking body, infertility, and some cognitive deficits, none of which would merit a second glance among the X-men). But having two of the same X chromosome is far worse.

To quote symptoms from the only confirmed case of functional maternal X isodisomy in the literature (the rest die as embryos, thankfully):

  • Extremely short stature (in the second percentile).
  • A tiny head and low hairline.
  • A short neck with "webbing"
  • A deformed spine.
  • Swelling and deformity of the hands and feet.
  • Inability to straighten fingers, elbows and knees.
  • Inverted nipples.
  • Lack of sexual development.
  • Severe breathing problems.
  • Inability to walk.
  • Inability to speak.
  • Profound mental retardation.
  • Brain abnormalities causing seizures.
  • Extreme ugliness (all right, this is a paraphrase).
  • Light stripes on her skin.
  • Death at age 11 from cardiorespiratory and liver failure.

 So, yeah. If X-23's alive, she isn't a clone of Wolverine.
#1 Posted by War Killer (20197 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude....it's a comic book.

#2 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, she's going to have an arc with Mrs. Sinister, so perhaps they'll fix that.

#3 Posted by Mercy_ (92695 posts) - - Show Bio

It's comics. There has to be a certain suspension of belief.

Moderator
#4 Posted by danhimself (22541 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:
" Dude....it's a comic book. "
lol exactly what I was going to say
 
same message I give everyone...stop over thinking...just sit back and enjoy the story
#5 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio

In a world filled with mutants, aliens, god, and various other fantastic things the thing you have an issue with is a female clone of a male?

#6 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29500 posts) - - Show Bio

 
 
Galactus's body mass cannot begin to support the massive weight of his mighty purple short-shorts.
 

SCANDAL I SAY!

#7 Posted by Risky (12629 posts) - - Show Bio

LMAO Well observed. had a good laugh from this envisioning how X-23 should really look like.
 
Isn't hse a clone as by definition of identical? I think her second X-chromosome came from Dr. Kinney who carried her out?

#8 Posted by hydrabob--defunct (14860 posts) - - Show Bio
@PumpkinBomb:  while i agree with what the majority of people said, it is a comic book and you really can't take it literally, they can bend reality as much as they want with no repercussions (ok some repercussions).
 
with that said i enjoyed the read, i often try and take things that happen in comics and add real world physics to it, this is very similar to that, but for chemistry, all in all good work hope you become a big wig scientist some day.
#9 Posted by fACEmelter88 (609 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea that is bull crap they shouldn't have done that it's ridiculous just like her "father" having claws and able to regenerate limbs...........SHUT UP ITS COMICS

#10 Posted by Caligula (12417 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:
" Dude....it's a comic book. "
#11 Posted by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

Several things: it is a comic book, as some people have said here. Also Dr. Kinney used the X chromosome as a base and did a lot of repair work. What if she fixed the issues? Not feasible in real life but in the comic book world...or, also as suggested in this thread, maybe one of the X chromosomes was from herself? X-23 is not a strict clone. She is more 'based' off Wolverine's DNA as closely as possible, designer DNA. Dr. Kinney repaired a lot of genes that had been destroyed, made up coding where it was missing. I assume, with all the possible opportunities, that the problem was solved through one of these avenues.

#12 Posted by Band Lone (1789 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this guy trying to look for actual logic in comics? O_o 
 
Dude we know! Is not like we think a person can actually shoot lasers out of their eyes -__-  
 
The only possible "superpower" a real human being has is maybe flatulence which with the aid of a lighter it becomes a flame 
 
So, yeah, we have a flamethrower on our butts but is not a real super power, is not very potent and is incredibly embarrassing -__- 
 
That's as close to super powers as we'll get

#13 Posted by DEGRAAF (7881 posts) - - Show Bio
@PumpkinBomb:
i agree with the others that its just a comic and 99% of people readin comics probably wouldnt know that information you just gave but i do have to say, you study and learn some pretty cool $h!t. I would love to be learning on that level. I try and read things above my intellegence level alot (A. because i like alot of things that i would be considered to dumb to understand and B. kinda hoping i would slowly start comprehending more) 
 
I always wanted to go to MIT and learn but i screwed up to much in my years at school. I kick my self every day for not trying harder. I've still got a good life but wow that sounds like something fun to learn
#14 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@Band Lone said:
" Is this guy trying to look for actual logic in comics? O_o   Dude we know! Is not like we think a person can actually shoot lasers out of their eyes -__-    The only possible "superpower" a real human being has is maybe flatulence which with the aid of a lighter it becomes a flame   So, yeah, we have a flamethrower on our butts but is not a real super power, is not very potent and is incredibly embarrassing -__-   That's as close to super powers as we'll get "
Not true.  The same gene that allows jelly fish to regenerate and regrow limbs and what not is also present in the human genome.  It's just inactive, it's just a matter of someone or something activating what is already there.    So there ya go, humans have a healing factor....it's just that no one has figured out how to use it.
#15 Posted by Band Lone (1789 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin said:
" @Band Lone said:
" Is this guy trying to look for actual logic in comics? O_o   Dude we know! Is not like we think a person can actually shoot lasers out of their eyes -__-    The only possible "superpower" a real human being has is maybe flatulence which with the aid of a lighter it becomes a flame   So, yeah, we have a flamethrower on our butts but is not a real super power, is not very potent and is incredibly embarrassing -__-   That's as close to super powers as we'll get "
Not true.  The same gene that allows jelly fish to regenerate and regrow limbs and what not is also present in the human genome.  It's just inactive, it's just a matter of someone or something activating what is already there.    So there ya go, humans have a healing factor....it's just that no one has figured out how to use it. "
That doesn't make what I said "Not true" 
 
Is not like healing factor is a big super power 
 
Not to mention that it wouldn't be like in the comics
 
Jellyfish are called immortal yet turtles eat them all the time and they also wash on shore at times. 
 
In the comics been a hero with a healing factor is a damn joy ride
 
I'll explain myself: 
 





But that wont be the case in real life even if they do activate whatever you said we have in us. 
 
Besides we are already having over population problems and we are most likely able to clone people yet the government does not approve, so if it was possible to have a healing factor the government would not allow it.  
 
But back to relity 
 
We do not have that ability and ass flamethrower is our "power" xD
#16 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

You have difficulty to believe a change gender from a clone baby. It’s not that hard. But to spare DNA talk the female part came from her mother. X-23 is a test tube baby to be more exact.  Some DNA may alter from the other parent.    

#17 Posted by jordama (4225 posts) - - Show Bio

It is a good thing she has a healing factor, the character you descibed wouldn't have been the nice to look at.
#18 Posted by xerox_kitty (15762 posts) - - Show Bio

This is funny!  No-one would ever know that Laura was really a man in disguise if you hadn't WikiLeaked the scientific proof!  ;)

Moderator
#19 Posted by PumpkinBomb (493 posts) - - Show Bio
@jordama said:
" It is a good thing she has a healing factor, the character you descibed wouldn't have been the nice to look at. "
This would require her entering puberty during the first trimester.
#20 Posted by Vitality (1763 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm glad your putting your degree to use...haha.
#21 Posted by radar5 (53 posts) - - Show Bio
@jordama: my thoughts exactly
#22 Posted by mrmisanthrope (103 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd just like to point out that a lot of the people saying "Dude it's a comic book" and arguing that you should suspend disbelief for comic  books, are probably the same people who applaud "realism" in comic books, and drone on and on about how comic characters are too perfect, and like characters walking around in civvies more often.
 
All I'm saying is, as soon as you try to go for "realism" in comic books, you have to address intelligent, factual arguments such as what this guy has presented.

#23 Posted by Vitality (1763 posts) - - Show Bio
@mrmisanthrope said:
"I'd just like to point out that a lot of the people saying "Dude it's a comic book" and arguing that you should suspend disbelief for comic  books, are probably the same people who applaud "realism" in comic books, and drone on and on about how comic characters are too perfect, and like characters walking around in civvies more often.  All I'm saying is, as soon as you try to go for "realism" in comic books, you have to address intelligent, factual arguments such as what this guy has presented. "

The thing is...this person isn't just saying..."well that's not realistic"...this person went so deep with their scientific proof to disprove something in a comic book....it borderlines the absurd.
#24 Posted by LucifersLawyer (13 posts) - - Show Bio

The way I read it, I thought  Dr. Sarah Kinney used only Wolverine's X chromosome and replaced the damaged Y one with one of her own, thereby making X-23 basically Wolverine's daughter by artificial insemination.

#25 Posted by hydrabob--defunct (14860 posts) - - Show Bio

 @PumpkinBomb said:

" @jordama said:

" It is a good thing she has a healing factor, the character you descibed wouldn't have been the nice to look at. "
This would require her entering puberty during the first trimester. "
well at least she wouldn't have awkward teen years.
 
@xerox-kitty said:

" This is funny!  No-one would ever know that Laura was really a man in disguise if you hadn't WikiLeaked the scientific proof!  ;) "

I choose to not think about it that way.
  
@LucifersLawyer said:
" The way I read it, I thought  Dr. Sarah Kinney used only Wolverine's X chromosome and replaced the damaged Y one with one of her own, thereby making X-23 basically Wolverine's daughter by artificial insemination.
"
If Sarah Kinney has a Y chromosome then their family has more problems than X-23 being a clone
#26 Posted by Thor's hammmer (7184 posts) - - Show Bio

you do relise there are characters in comic books that have fathered themselves? and other characters who alter reality witht there punches right?  

#27 Posted by jordama (4225 posts) - - Show Bio
@PumpkinBomb said:
" @jordama said:
" It is a good thing she has a healing factor, the character you descibed wouldn't have been the nice to look at. "
This would require her entering puberty during the first trimester. "

That was mostly a joke because most people are just yelling that it is a comic book.  
 
But if you really want to discuss this point, she has been shown to have developed mutant powers early. Also, some mutants were born with their powers so it is possible that she was born with a healing factor that took over to save her life and stop her from being a vegetable. 
 

 
#28 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

she exists in a world where radioactive bugs give you super powers and occasionally a giant guy in purple armor shows up to eat the planet X23's origin isn't even a blip on the Marvel weird sh*t-o-meter

#29 Posted by fbdarkangel (4884 posts) - - Show Bio
@hydrabob said:
"
  @LucifersLawyer said:
" The way I read it, I thought  Dr. Sarah Kinney used only Wolverine's X chromosome and replaced the damaged Y one with one of her own, thereby making X-23 basically Wolverine's daughter by artificial insemination.
"
If Sarah Kinney has a Y chromosome then their family has more problems than X-23 being a clone "
oh I laughed so hard I woke up butters 

I am Butters and I do not approve of this awakening!

on the matter of this thread... Does it really matter? I personally don't care on whether or not her "scientific origin" is accurate. she is one of the few marvel female characters that has her own solo series!
#30 Posted by hydrabob--defunct (14860 posts) - - Show Bio
@fbdarkangel said:
" @hydrabob said:
"
  @LucifersLawyer said:
" The way I read it, I thought  Dr. Sarah Kinney used only Wolverine's X chromosome and replaced the damaged Y one with one of her own, thereby making X-23 basically Wolverine's daughter by artificial insemination.
"
If Sarah Kinney has a Y chromosome then their family has more problems than X-23 being a clone "
oh I laughed so hard I woke up butters 

I am Butters and I do not approve of this awakening!
on the matter of this thread... Does it really matter? I personally don't care on whether or not her "scientific origin" is accurate. she is one of the few marvel female characters that has her own solo series! "
NOOOO, I have woken the beast, the beast will destroy me (and my bed)
 
yeah but she is probably going to lose it in a little while (just going off track record)
#31 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13134 posts) - - Show Bio

dude.....its a goddamn comic,  where they have technology, countries and lots of stuff that doesnt exist/couldnt work in real life.
#32 Posted by andrea_mendoza1997 (342 posts) - - Show Bio

Well we all know that everything in comic books is not very accurate or possible in the real world let's just keep on believing that it is okay :)

#33 Posted by Deadknight (639 posts) - - Show Bio

Egad! Someone has managed to disprove comic book science with real science?! MADNESS!! 
 
 
...Okay, so maybe it wasn't stunningly obvious, but come on, it's comics. Last I checked, the world of superheroes isn't dead-set when it comes to science.  
Granted, they have their moments, but then there's... 

 
#34 Edited by Gammbitt (133 posts) - - Show Bio

Well constant healing factor is all i have say, and that the scientist probably overide the mother x chromosome like they did with terry, u do know they can do that right

#35 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

I think this is actually interesting, but, yeah, this is far from the most ridiculous thing in comics.

#36 Edited by BaBaBoom (274 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Posted by Shadow_Thief (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

I apologize; I don't mean to be the wise-ass who sidetracks what is a pretty interesting discussion, but since reading the forum header I can't get the image of a stalk of celery with adamantium claws out of my head.

#38 Posted by mistersarcastic (324 posts) - - Show Bio

I won't say "it's a comic book" because many other times comics tend to go for realistic matters, no? But in the case of X-23, maybe they were less realistic for the sake of getting a female clone. They probably knew it wasn't scientifically possible to get a female clone from a male as you pointed and out but wanted ignore the odds and facts for the character. Who knows, they probably debated over rather or not they wanted a male or female. *shrug* Nice observation though - never knew a clone could be the opposite sex of the original. 

#39 Posted by Theworldbreaker (1642 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm surprised you dident pick on Hulk/Bruce banner for being unrealistic.
#40 Posted by fbdarkangel (4884 posts) - - Show Bio
@Theworldbreaker said:
" I'm surprised you dident pick on Hulk/Bruce banner for being unrealistic. "
that's true! and Wanda's twins Wiccan and Speed very unrealistic!
#41 Posted by Theworldbreaker (1642 posts) - - Show Bio

Dont forget Flash and Magneto!
#42 Posted by fbdarkangel (4884 posts) - - Show Bio
@Theworldbreaker said:
" Dont forget Flash and Magneto! "
in other comic books!
#43 Posted by Theworldbreaker (1642 posts) - - Show Bio
@fbdarkangel:
And!?
#44 Posted by Full_Spectrum (1539 posts) - - Show Bio

fortunately, the writer doesn't know JACK about human genetics and therefore X-23 is a perfectly functional (and quite hot) woman. tada.

#45 Posted by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio
@Band Lone: Well said friend.
#46 Posted by daredevil21134 (11786 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:
"Dude....it's a comic book. "
#47 Posted by slvrwolfang (76 posts) - - Show Bio

one thing i would like to point out is that she is the 23rd attempt at a clone, i'm sure the geneticists did some sort of splicing in order to make the silencing of one of the chromosomes work

#48 Posted by frogjitsu (481 posts) - - Show Bio
@xerox-kitty said:
" This is funny!  No-one would ever know that Laura was really a man in disguise if you hadn't WikiLeaked the scientific proof!  ;) "
OH NO!!  X-23 is secretly a trap!!  That would be a hilarious twist.
#49 Posted by fbdarkangel (4884 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by ddaann1985 (129 posts) - - Show Bio

You can also not have a giant entity eat up a world, or have people running around with a coat of metal around their bones....thats why there comics :)

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