X-23 issue 20: Short and kinda sweet Review ( Possible Spoilers!!

#1 Posted by snyderman567 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

In the wake of the schism between the x-men, X-23 must make a choice on which side she falls on. Will she return to Utopia or stay in New York with Wolverine. The answer may surprise you ( unless you have read the latest issue of avengers academy.)

Pros: Marjorie Liu has done an excellent job in building the character of X. X-23 may come off as the generic I do not know how to be human character, but she never becomes unbearable or too whinny for the reader to be tuned out. The relationship between X and Jubilee is another focus of this issue and it succeeds. Both X-23 and Jubilee are becoming like sisters, sisters who have been cursed with the urge to kill ( Laura with the trigger scent and her past, to Jubilee and her vampire nature.) The conversation between those two characters are great. Also I thought her little talk with wolverine was a little touching.

Cons: The art style in most of the recent X-23 books, drawn by Sana Takeda, is absolutely gorgeous. The characters and environments are just drawn so perfectly with grace and an attention to detail. Sadly Sana did not do any of the penciling or inking in this issue. Instead Phil Noto did the art style and it looks bland, really bland. Well, to be fair some of the shots of New York city in certain panels look quite nice, but just the art, especially with some of the characters, just look bland and uninspired. Not so much as a fundamental problem, but a missed opportunity is the reveal of Black Widow's offer for Laura to join the Avengers Academy. Had we ( or people who have been caught up in everything X-23) not already knonw that she was already going to be in AA, this would have been a cool twist.

Verdict: I am still bummed this got canceled, I always liked the character and hoped to see more from her in her own title. I really enjoyed this issue despite the mediocre art style.

FULL PRICE!!!!!

#2 Posted by rokusan23 (146 posts) - - Show Bio

They say that goodbyes are bittersweet... This is just bitter :C

#3 Posted by MetallicMercury (82 posts) - - Show Bio

In comparison to the last issue, I really enjoyed it. It was bittersweet and really stayed true to X-23's character. The goodbyes were written beautifully and were real tearjerkers. The part with Hellion was quite sad though, be it a little creepy.

#4 Edited by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

This issue was a piece of crap. I was worried about supporting it with my hard-earned money, then I remembered my fiance bought it for me and felt slightly better.

I already have a topic about this here. The basis is, Liu has characters acting totally out of the norm. She even messed up Laura's dialogue several times. Since when is X-23 a chatterbox, even with a friend? And since when does she ever use the word 'guys'? I found the plot very random, a rush job to patch over a cancellation and touch on an issue she clearly wanted to explore when she thought the series was still good for more air time. Then there's that so awkward and out of character scene with Julian. Come on. I'm pretty sure Laura knows why he's watching her...and to have them all just stare at him for a panel, like they're a bunch of kids at the playground ostracizing the outcast... -100/5 on my scale.

PS: I actually enjoy Noto's art, though Takeda is my fave. Two different incomparable styles. Noto is superb at drawing character's expressions--almost like reading double the story.

#5 Posted by snyderman567 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@k2:

#6 Posted by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@snyderman567 said:

@k2:

Ditto.

#7 Posted by snyderman567 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@k2: Escape the difference is that my opinion is not filled with nitpicking.

#8 Posted by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@snyderman567 said:

@k2: Escape the difference is that my opinion is not filled with nitpicking.

No, yours is filled with praise. I just don't agree with you on the idea that 'Marjorie Liu has done an excellent job in building the character of X', seeing as Liu's writing is getting choppy and is 'building the character of X' with changes that are so 'character building' they are out-of-character.

Opinions don't need to be positive. That's why they are called opinions. But--come to think of it--what I posted earlier was a proper argument, since I backed up my opinion with evidence of instances where Liu failed to write Laura properly.

#9 Edited by snyderman567 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

no it was not, your argument is full of it. Your just extremely butthurt that laura rejected hellion.

#10 Posted by John Valentine (16304 posts) - - Show Bio

Sh!t ending to a sh!t series.

#11 Edited by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine said:

Sh!t ending to a sh!t series.

Agreed.

@snyderman567 said:

no it was not, your argument is full of it. Your just extremely butthurt that laura rejected hellion.

Going in circles here.

#12 Posted by snyderman567 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: Sooo why did you show it so much love before??? Someone is a little bi-polar here.

Its true though, and I am going to keep saying it.

#13 Posted by John Valentine (16304 posts) - - Show Bio

@snyderman567 said:

@John Valentine: Sooo why did you show it so much love before??? Someone is a little bi-polar here.

That was a year ago. Opinions change.

#14 Posted by snyderman567 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: Or they change when a writer ends the romantic relationship between Hellion and Laura. Plus i can point out posts a few months ago where you genuinely liked her series before issue 19.

#15 Edited by John Valentine (16304 posts) - - Show Bio

@snyderman567 said:

@John Valentine: Or they change when a writer ends the romantic relationship between Hellion and Laura. Plus i can point out posts a few months ago where you genuinely liked her series before issue 19.

Go on then.

I stopped liking the series soon after it began.

If you can bother to read back through my posts, you will you see that I stated "I like what I've read of it", or words to that effect. I had read the first three issues at that point. Passable at that stage.

Secondly, you'll see that I don't care about the ending of their relationship. I care about how she trashed a character I like (well, two, if you count Laura).

#16 Posted by snyderman567 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@John Valentine: My point exactly.

#17 Posted by John Valentine (16304 posts) - - Show Bio

@snyderman567 said:

@John Valentine: My point exactly.

"Or they change when a writer ends the romantic relationship between Hellion and Laura".

This was your point. Which is not why I disliked the series. You were wrong and have failed to show me posts where I indicated, in the last few months, that I like the series.

#18 Posted by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@snyderman567 said:

@John Valentine: Sooo why did you show it so much love before??? Someone is a little bi-polar here.

Its true though, and I am going to keep saying it.

I have presented logical arguments about why the issue sucked that have nothing to do with the relationship being ended. I supported all of my arguments with evidence. You have failed to respond to those arguments, and have failed to, in fact, even stay on the topic, resorting to slams against me to stay in the discussion. What is the point? Your accusation doesn't bother me. I am a self-declared fan of the pairing and of course I was upset that it was ended. That is aside from this topic. Since I have been able to separate the two in my mind, I ask that you do the same and respond to my argument points--which are on-topic--instead of trying to discuss things that are outside of the topic.

#19 Posted by snyderman567 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@k2: you have presented nitpicking statements, not logical arguments. Laura was not even that much of a chatter box, plus it is time for her character to grow and to become a little more sociable. You are just one of those fans who has a major knee-jerk reaction to change that is not drastic or all that negative. Its not an accusation, it is a fact.

#20 Posted by ambival1 (95 posts) - - Show Bio

@snyderman567 said:

@k2: you have presented nitpicking statements, not logical arguments. Laura was not even that much of a chatter box, plus it is time for her character to grow and to become a little more sociable. You are just one of those fans who has a major knee-jerk reaction to change that is not drastic or all that negative. Its not an accusation, it is a fact.

Frankly the whole idea of a character growing and becoming more sociable is a dead end for those types of characters. I'm not saying that she needs to always be that cold blooded killer, but she can't lose one of her main features. She is a innocent girl made to be a perfect killer. During K&Y years this subject was portraited frequently, and with Liu it goes towards only "innocent girl" subject. It's simple - if she wants to be more sociable, she should rip her claws off(she did that in X-Force, so it's not a problem for her), because those make her a killer. But yet she (or rather writers) keeps them. That "innocent girl made to be a perfect killer" must be present in order for her to be an interesting character. If she would suddenly feel proud of her killing, it's out of her character. The same is If she suddenly becomes nice and more like a pacifist.

#21 Posted by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@ambival1 said:

Frankly the whole idea of a character growing and becoming more sociable is a dead end for those types of characters. I'm not saying that she needs to always be that cold blooded killer, but she can't lose one of her main features. She is a innocent girl made to be a perfect killer. During K&Y years this subject was portraited frequently, and with Liu it goes towards only "innocent girl" subject. It's simple - if she wants to be more sociable, she should rip her claws off(she did that in X-Force, so it's not a problem for her), because those make her a killer. But yet she (or rather writers) keeps them. That "innocent girl made to be a perfect killer" must be present in order for her to be an interesting character. If she would suddenly feel proud of her killing, it's out of her character. The same is If she suddenly becomes nice and more like a pacifist.

Well said. And no, it wasn't 'was not even that much'. Throughout her entire past 5 years of existance, she's used two or three word answers, and has not made conversation. Starting with X-23 #20 she began to talk way more than usual...and that carried into Avenger's academy, squared. It doesn't fit with her past behavior.

@snyderman567: I believe you need a better hold on the concept of 'logic' before you can have a real conversation about X-23 with me. Every single thing said on a comic forum--by that kind of thought process--is nitpicking. We're talking about fictional characters here. The points I've mentioned are by no means minor and change the character as a whole, if they become the way she is written in the future. Which seems to be the case. I refuse to compromise my standards of what makes for good writing. And if you want to keep trying to criticize me that way, I can counter by saying you're a fan that accepts everything they're fed by the writers, even if it's terrible. You are part of the reason bad writing continues.

#22 Edited by snyderman567 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@k2: First off: Go blow yourself

Second: I believe you need to learn what nitpicking actually means.

Third: You are part of the reason why characters never evolve.

Fouth: I'll say it again, every point you made WAS minor.

Fifth: I am a open-minded fan who accepts what is being fed to me by the writer only if it stays true to the character or anything else positive. You are the close-minded fan whose nitpicks to hell about nothing or a minor hiccup and refuses any kind of change that in reality is a positive evolution to the character.

#23 Posted by ambival1 (95 posts) - - Show Bio

It's an never ending dilemma - evolve in an unknown area to find perfection or keep the golden formula. Both sides are right and the only thing you can do is to pick one of those sides. I must give a credit to evolving for giving an opportunity to find something better, but judging by other examples of experiments it usually goes in a more mass oriented way. Sadly, In my opinion X23 goes that way, cause she becomes more and more popular (how other way we can explain her presence in the Avengers, where she talks alot using words like "guys" and dresses only in a black bra - it's too fan oriented rather than character). I might sound a bit too rough, but I don't accept such drastic changes. It's not fair for long time fans, when a character changes losing those features for which we got involved in her story. I choose a golden formula side

#24 Posted by k2 (473 posts) - - Show Bio

@snyderman567 said:

@k2: First off: Go blow yourself

Second: I believe you need to learn what nitpicking actually means.

Third: You are part of the reason why characters never evolve.

Fouth: I'll say it again, every point you made WAS minor.

Fifth: I am a open-minded fan who accepts what is being fed to me by the writer only if it stays true to the character or anything else positive. You are the close-minded fan whose nitpicks to hell about nothing or a minor hiccup and refuses any kind of change that in reality is a positive evolution to the character.

I've already made my criticisms of you, and remain certain. I like how you tried to deny it with "only if it stays true to the character". That is quite simply an oxymoron in this situation.

By the way, your original wording was better, shame that the two million comments you've received about language are finally starting to sink in. With your behavior it won't be long at all until I no longer have to deal with your immaturity clogging up my PM box.

#25 Posted by snyderman567 (152 posts) - - Show Bio

@ambival1: Well said and fair point.

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