Who thinks that Laura should Slap Surge?
Laura didn't slap Surge because such things are beneath her. On one hand, she's never considered her own opinion, her own status worthy of defending. She will kill anyone, for anyone--except herself. There's only one occasion she has killed for herself, and that is when she killed Alexander Rice. And that raises another point: Laura has been pushed to the extreme edge, to the point that behavior like Surge's doesn't matter anymore. Dr. Rice was much, much worse.
On the other hand, I think Hellion should have slapped Nori for her. Or, y'know, whatever is the equivalent. He's gotten into fights with Surge before, been willing to kick her where the sun don't shine over less (such as just pure dislike, and things like defending David from him in the beginning of Childhood's End). Here she was dissing his woman (a concept of which he was apparently quite willing to go along with) and all he says is 'well...stop it!'. Shame on him! I wouldn't especially want my guy to carry through on a huge smack-down to defend my honor, but if he didn't at least try he'd be asking for a shin kick!
:-P oh and I loved how Dust stood up for Laura. That girl has balls! Too funny how she used the B-word like that. And all the more meaningful because it's rare of Sooraya to say that of anyone.
" Am I the only one who thought Surge was in place telling Laura off for joined X-Force? "yeah, you probably are. if there is one person who cannot tell laura off, besides cyclops, it's Surge. 1) it's because of X-force surge is still alive. 2) in Messiah Complex she was all "let's kill all the Purifiers"
that whole scene made me laugh. surge was just acting like a dumb jealous b****, if i were laura i would've punched her. but i agree that she's had much worse happen to her, and going off because of something as little as this would be beneath her.
:-P oh and I loved how Dust stood up for Laura. That girl has balls! Too funny how she used the B-word like that. And all the more meaningful because it's rare of Sooraya to say that of anyone. "
I think you're right. Dust doen't speak up most of the time. To me it shows that Laura must be pretty cool for Dust to defend her and use bad words!
*necro-thread-bump* Just gotta say a love triangle between these three would be waaay better than the more popular love triangle of Hellion-Sofia-Laura. Sof should be gone and forgotten by now. XP Whats more interesting than a total tsundere (pardon my anime terminology for a sec...) character like Surge, who HATED Hellion going off and FALLING for him? So many possibilities here. rofl
" @fbdarkangel: That's not at all unreasonable. You can't stop electricity with telekinesis. With morals off and fully charged, she should be able to speedblitz either of them into cardiac arrest almost instantaneously. "Maybe not stop but I do believe Hellion was able to "funnel" her electricity in X-Force. So I don't think it'd be that easy. lool
" @PumpkinBomb: A Hellion with out morals could easily Vader choke her or blow up her brain with a thought plus at full power he's faster than she is "I think it comes down to whomever gets the drop on the other. He doesn't have that kind of accuracy anymore, but he could easily fling her into a wall and break her back. However, while Hellion can go supersonic, that doesn't actually improve his reaction time. Nori's superspeed means that she'll almost always draw first blood unless Hellion is already shielded for some reason.
" @k2 said:Dust standing up for Laura was hilarious. "The B-Word"
:-P oh and I loved how Dust stood up for Laura. That girl has balls! Too funny how she used the B-word like that. And all the more meaningful because it's rare of Sooraya to say that of anyone. "I think you're right. Dust doen't speak up most of the time. To me it shows that Laura must be pretty cool for Dust to defend her and use bad words! "
Nah, I don't think she should. She has the right to definitely, but yeah. Surge is sort of messed up emotionally as well. She is just sort of the opposite of 23, where as Laura will be an introvert, Nori will be an extrovert. Where as Laura would take criticism, and direct it inwards and at herself, because that might be her defense mechanism, or because she lacks a defense mechanism, in that way, Surge's defense mechanism, will have her express criticism, outwards, at other people.
Let's read between the lines, of what Surge says, (or as I believe)
"Laura, you excluded us, and kept secrets from us, you betrayed us, I thought we were closer, though some unspoken bond, and even though I, or the group, haven't really been that close to you, its common for people our age to just bond, and expect a sort of social closeness and loyalty within our group, how could you have betrayed us, or not realized that we would have supported you? Oh, i see? You think your better than us? Or better than me, and above me? Your so independent and I am not? You get to be in X-Force, and I don't? Screw you miss high and mighty, I thought we friends, not close friends, but friends"
and of course, because X-23 is so quiet, her silence, probably just aggravates Surge even more, and her lack of knowledge or empathy for X-23, probably comes across as attitude, especially for someone who talks as much as she does. It may even come across as criticism, or remind her of criticism.
If Nori was a telepath though, she might hear Laura's mind saying
"Blue hair girl, stop shouting at me, this is who I am, I am quiet, I am different from all of you, I have no friends, but would want some, I don't know how to talk to you, I did not think you considered me your friend, since your always shouting at me, and calling me bad things. I would not betray you or think bad things of you"
Nori might shut up then. She just really doesn't get X-23 at all, and X-23 isn't the kind of person that is easy to understand or get, by virtue of just not having the type of personality to easily open up and start openly talking about her life, feelings, and motivations. If either Nori was more understanding and willing to learn about X, OR, X-23, was a better communicator and talk as much as Nori does, they would probably get on really well. Its funny too, because both Nori and X-23, seem to prefer talking with characters older than themselves as well. Nori might be a bit jealous as well of X-23, for quite a few reasons as well. X-23 often stands out and can become the center of attention, without really hardly doing anything. Surge has bright blue hair, and talks more than I write which she would expect should gather more attention and interest, so there is that too.
I remember seeing this a while ago, and it's been bugging me.
Honestly, the trust issues thing is a big deal for a team. Shutting up because X-23 saved her life wouldn't make Surge a good leader. A leader has to call out people on their actions. There's a thing called tough love. Better than people endlessly coddling Laura. Sure, making friends is hard for Laura, but you know what? Tough. If you don't do something because it's hard, good luck with life. People aren't going to coddle and spoon-feed Laura (or at least shouldn't, since this could stunt her emotional growth) because she's having trouble fitting in. And yet, people still go out of their way to include her and coddle her. If I were Surge, I'd be annoyed to.
Jealous about not being in X-Force? Yeah, that's forcing it (no pun intended).
The thing about not having friends? Yeah, she does. She just can't see them. And she pushes them away. Constantly. Even people who want to be her friends.
With the "let's kill all the purifiers" thing, um, that was retaliation based on the fact that they had just blown up a busload of depowered mutants. Plus. she was still completely new to leadership. That was being blinded by emotion, something X-23 can't really say she was.
The getting all of the attention thing I don't think is a thing about X-23's character, rather how much her writers, who are also her creators (Craig Kyle has literally only ever written comic books regarding her), seemingly LOVE her and go out of their way to make characters within the Marvel Universe love her.
Anyway, yeah. Late post, but people consistently looking past X-23's faults without thinking about it annoys me. In this case, it's not one-sided. Surge had valid points, but you can defend Laura, just don't make it seem like she's not at fault here. Both characters have gone through crap, and people completely taking Laura's side on everything because "she's gone through trauma and is emotionally fragile, wah wah" is something I really hate. People, the girl needs to mature emotionally, and readers coddling her makes it seem like they enjoy that, so writers will be encouraged to continue to write her as she is. Comic books are cyclical enough when readers don't give editors and writers a reason.
@xspectregreyx: You said "coddle" so many times in there I wanted to slap you.
And any suggestion that Laura's lack of friends is because she "didn't do something because it's hard for her" doesn't make any sense at all. Laura did nothing wrong. She was used by someone she trusted (Scott). What she did was necessary, without which none of this conversation could have happened because everyone would be dead -- especially Surge, who Laura actually was willing to jeopardize herself to go back and save. In fact, Surge was dead, and Laura rewrote time to stop her from dying.
There was no alternative to what Laura was a part of. Suggesting otherwise is extraordinarily naive. Surge is uncomfortable that sometimes stopping homicidal maniacs requires putting them down with lethal force? To use your word, "tough." She had absolutely no basis for attacking Laura, and her having this speech is not an example of her taking the hard road towards being a good leader.
People don't go out of the way to make X-23 lovable. Most people don't trust her, are afraid of her, or don't understand her. The only exception that comes to mind is the Academy kids who could empathize with her because they too were horribly changed by scientists doing terrible things to them.
So, again, Laura at fault here. She was needed. She did what she was told by people who she trusts -- Scott pushed her towards it, and Logan didn't stop it -- and she did it in a very selfless way.
Surge isn't wrong because Laura needed to be cut some slack.
Surge is wrong because she's just wrong.
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