Thought: Could X-23 be Marvels Wonder Woman??

#1 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

I was reading Venom issue 13 and X-23 issue 20 and it occurred to me that it is possible that she could be a wonder woman type character. What are your thoughts??

#2 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

In what way?

#3 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio

@Death Certificate said:

In what way?

I think he only means in the "Flagship female character" way. Or not.

#4 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't Storm Marvel's Wonder Woman?

#5 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123: In those terms would be hard considering that her series got cancelled.

#6 Posted by Mercy_ (92708 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

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#7 Posted by WeaponX619 (79 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

So true, Jean Grey can't stay alive long enough and everyone else has been toned down or don't have a book anymore

#8 Posted by davelecave (1113 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

#9 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress:Yeah, that's pretty much the case. DC has a better handling of women, while Marvel has a better handling of racial minorities.

#10 Posted by Kairan1979 (16757 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

#11 Posted by Mercy_ (92708 posts) - - Show Bio

@WeaponX619 said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

So true, Jean Grey can't stay alive long enough and everyone else has been toned down or don't have a book anymore

They missed an amazing opportunity with Ms. Marvel.

  • Avenger
  • Had an ongoing for 50 issues (that they should have pushed a hell of a lot more)
  • And bears the company name for chrissakes.

There should have been a LOT more marketing, pushing and effort put into her.

Moderator
#12 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio

@JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:

Isn't Storm Marvel's Wonder Woman?

NO.

@Kairan1979 said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

This. Not Storm. This.

#13 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11626 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

@JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:

Isn't Storm Marvel's Wonder Woman?

NO.

@Kairan1979 said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

This. Not Storm. This.

#14 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say no for X-23.

Pros:

  • Has had her own series
  • Has a fan following among comics fans

Cons:

  • Gender swap of a male character
  • Is still considered a "teen hero"
  • Doesn't have any unique hooks
  • Relatively new creation
  • No recognition outside of comics fans
  • Name doesn't exactly roll of the tongue

Marvel has no leading lady. Just gender-swaps, team characters, or characters who could fit the bill but aren't recognizable enough.

#15 Posted by cattlebattle (12790 posts) - - Show Bio

Ha Ha Ha.........................

#16 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123:Look, I agree with Dark Huntress about Marvel not really having a female flagship character and that they are terrible at pushing their female characters. However, in terms of how well known Marvel superheroines are in the general public, a lot of people seem to know about Storm. Whenever Marvel decides to put a women in their overall line up, Storm tends to be that women. I know this example might not mean much, but BarelyPolitical, a popular YT channel, does sketches called Superhero Therapy, and the third female comic book they used, behind WW and Harley Quinn, was Storm. She's probably the best known superheroine from Marvel.

#17 Posted by SC (13120 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree with Marvel being 'bad' with pushing female characters. Looking at sales numbers, how they change/changed, chances, advertising, characters cross over rations. Objective info. Fans are even 'more' to blame. They can do better naturally, most definitely. Anyway asking about Wonder Woman anything is redundant - has nothing to do with comics and all about marketing outside of. DC's own Wonder Woman's can't compete with Wonder Woman any more. Hasn't in comics for ages. X-23 fills a good niche. 

Moderator
#18 Edited by Rabbitearsblog (5894 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

This.  Marvel may have strong female characters, but they never really let their miniseries last long enough to make a long impression on the fans and they never really push their female characters to the spotlight like they do with the male characters.
#19 Posted by MyraMyraMyra (296 posts) - - Show Bio

@JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:

@The Dark Huntress:Yeah, that's pretty much the case. DC has a better handling of women, while Marvel has a better handling of racial minorities.

Agreed. I do think that Marvel has a lot of great female characters, X-23 being one of them, but they just keep neglecting the female characters when it comes to things like marketing & actually letting these characters have their own series. I don't think that DC's female characters are generally better than Marvel's, but at least they have more than zero solo titles of female characters.

I don't think that X-23 is Marvel Wonder Woman/ flagship female character. She's popular, and she has a lot of potential to become more iconic in the future, but right now she's still more or less unknown to the wider audience. Marvel has several more popular and well-known female characters than her (I'd say Elektra, Invisible Woman, Storm, Jean Grey, Rogue, and even MJ Watson are more famous and marketable than her) - though I wouldn't really call any of them a "flagship" character, either. Marvel doesn't have its own Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman is perhaps the only female superhero who has reached some sort of an iconic status, and even though she isn't nearly as widely known as any of DC's or Marvel's most popular male superheroes, she is what one could call a household name. Marvel doesn't really have an individual female character who's achieved that level of fame.

#20 Posted by Mercy_ (92708 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg said:

  • No recognition outside of comics fans

I'd argue this point from my own personal experience. I got interested in comics through television shows (X-Men: Evolution, JL and JLU, WatXM). To this day, Target X (Laura's first appearance in any media ever) is my favorite episode of either of the mentioned X-Shows. It's what got me interested in the character and a big part of what got me into X-Men comics.

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#21 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: HaHaHaHaHaHaHa............ wow that was not funny at all.

#22 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

@fodigg said:

  • No recognition outside of comics fans

I'd argue this point from my own personal experience. I got interested in comics through television shows (X-Men: Evolution, JL and JLU, WatXM). To this day, Target X (Laura's first appearance in any media ever) is my favorite episode of either of the mentioned X-Shows. It's what got me interested in the character and a big part of what got me into X-Men comics.

Interesting. I'd expect that if anyone would argue her growing recognition outside comics circles it'd be via her Marvel vs. Capcom appearance. Both of those appearances are points in her favor, but they don't add up to "Wonder Woman" iconic status. Not even close.

#23 Posted by WeaponX619 (79 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

@WeaponX619 said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

So true, Jean Grey can't stay alive long enough and everyone else has been toned down or don't have a book anymore

They missed an amazing opportunity with Ms. Marvel.

  • Avenger
  • Had an ongoing for 50 issues (that they should have pushed a hell of a lot more)
  • And bears the company name for chrissakes.

There should have been a LOT more marketing, pushing and effort put into her.

Thats true, I don't know why they let that fall through

#24 Posted by War Killer (20213 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

@WeaponX619 said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

So true, Jean Grey can't stay alive long enough and everyone else has been toned down or don't have a book anymore

They missed an amazing opportunity with Ms. Marvel.

  • Avenger
  • Had an ongoing for 50 issues (that they should have pushed a hell of a lot more)
  • And bears the company name for chrissakes.

There should have been a LOT more marketing, pushing and effort put into her.

This, SO MUCH this!

While X-23 in her own right is a great character who has both a great background and powers, I don't think she'll reach any type of level that characters like Wonder Woman have.

#25 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4733 posts) - - Show Bio

Who is Wonder Woman?

#26 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

Thumbs up

#27 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

@Death Certificate: In terms of how Laura seems to be a heroic figure to women, just like Wonder Woman ( Issue 20 of X-23 for example when Laura busts a prostitution ring and freed all the women.) I was not referring particular as a flagship character or iconic status, just in the similar feel i get between those two characters.

#28 Posted by Vance Astro (91237 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel's Wonder Woman is Power Princess. 
 
/thread.

Moderator
#29 Edited by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: O. well guess thread is over.lol

#30 Posted by OldManJoe (90 posts) - - Show Bio

As cool as X-23 is, I don't see her rising to the iconic level that Wonder Woman has.

#31 Posted by BlackArmor (6141 posts) - - Show Bio

@JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:

Isn't Storm Marvel's Wonder Woman?

no.

#32 Posted by RyuHayabusa (2019 posts) - - Show Bio

@sesquipedalophobe said:

Who is Wonder Woman?

Every woman is wonder woman.

#33 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio

No, just no.

#34 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

This. Could X-23 be? Have been is the correct question. She could have. Ms.Marvel could have. Jean Grey could have. Elektra could have. The Black Widow could be. Sue Storm could have. But Marvel continues to drop the ball and not exploit a female icon when they should, especially in the case of a character gaining popularity and well outside the comic medium itself. X-23 stood as an example of that gaining a fanbase from her animated appearances, a young fanbase that would grow into a dedicated readership. A few of the others a mentioned had a similar opportunity, but same as X-23 Marvel didn't capitalize on the idea when they should have and let it fall by the wayside. It's silly to watch them not exploit a female lead, as well with DC even with Wonder Woman. Apparently they look at projections and only one core demographic, personally I think their losing out on the part there not paying attention to, and the sales it could bring in, given a lesser portion of a consumer base doesn't make it one that isn't there either.

#35 Posted by WildValentine (289 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

Sad, but true. I remember the days when Ms. Marvel had potential, but Marvel did this wonderful thing and CANCELLED her series.
#36 Posted by FourthDeity (2234 posts) - - Show Bio

Nothing would make me happier. Lol

#37 Posted by Kairan1979 (16757 posts) - - Show Bio

Only if Laura had the powers of Captain Universe permanently.

#38 Posted by PowerHerc (84035 posts) - - Show Bio

No, it's not possible.

Wonder Woman is a top-level powerhouse and goddess.

X-23 is a street-level female clone-version of a far more popular character.

#39 Posted by TheCannon (18794 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

@WeaponX619 said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

Marvel doesn't even HAVE a female flagship character. They're absolutely terrible at properly pushing and marketing their female characters.

So true, Jean Grey can't stay alive long enough and everyone else has been toned down or don't have a book anymore

They missed an amazing opportunity with Ms. Marvel.

  • Avenger
  • Had an ongoing for 50 issues (that they should have pushed a hell of a lot more)
  • And bears the company name for chrissakes.

There should have been a LOT more marketing, pushing and effort put into her.

Agreed. She could be Marvel's Wonder Woman, but they blew it.

#40 Posted by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

All we need just a great writer push her into a brand new level ,than she will make it. I mean see how popular Wolverine is ,Superman and Supergirl ,Wolverine and X-23.

#41 Posted by Mercy_ (92708 posts) - - Show Bio

@ka385385 said:

Wolverine

Male.

Superman

Male.

Supergirl

DC Female

X-23

Marvel Female.

That's the thing that will hold Laura back the most. She's a female in the Marvel universe and Marvel is absolutely terrible at doing right by their female characters.

Moderator
#42 Posted by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ Really? Marvel have lots of charming female characters i fall into them so deep such as X-23 ,Ms.Marvel ,Mantis ,Namorita(I own those three characters 1st appeared issuse) ,Namora ,Shanna ,Spider-woman ,She-hulk and Black Window ,they're all very great characters.

#43 Posted by Mercy_ (92708 posts) - - Show Bio

@ka385385: I didn't say that Marvel didn't have good female characters. I said they didn't do right by them, they don't properly push them. There's a HUGE difference.

Moderator
#44 Posted by ka385385 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_Should blame the market ,the sell will talk and it just didn't go will for lots of them ,but i don't think it's just for female characters some very popular male characters have to face the same thing like Ghost Rider and Moon Knight.

#45 Posted by Mercy_ (92708 posts) - - Show Bio

@ka385385: Completely disagree about it being the market. Let's take a look at female books.

DC

  • Supergirl
  • Wonder Woman
  • Batgirl
  • Batwoman
  • Birds of Prey (team of females)
  • Catwoman
  • Voodoo
  • Huntress mini (although this just ended)
  • World's Finest (co-starring Power Girl and Huntress)

Marvel

  • Captain Marvel (coming in June)

How can you say that it's a market thing when it's blatantly not? Marvel just cancelled their two female solos (X-23, which had pretty decent sales, better than some of the male titles or team titles that stayed and Ghost Rider, which had pretty bad sales).

Moderator
#46 Posted by Shotgun (900 posts) - - Show Bio

@JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:

Isn't Storm Marvel's Wonder Woman?

I thought that it was She-Hulk?

#47 Posted by SC (13120 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mercy_ said:

That's the thing that will hold Laura back the most. She's a female in the Marvel universe and Marvel is absolutely terrible at doing right by their female characters.

 
In this case its probably actually Marvel thinking Liu can make them more money elsewhere since thats a massive factor thats often overlooked. Not so much how books compare to each other - character to character, but whether they are getting the most money out of their creative talent as they can. Then their is the other biggie. The sales information us fans get aren't as accurate as the sales information Marvel and DC get. Then the other biggie, is that both want to make money and how things sound and if fostering an idea that can be supporting by objective information helps then both companies will do that (DC playing up that they have so many solo female characters books compared to Marvel when we don't know what Marvel or DC's cancelation thresholds are, how much their creative teams get paid, and or whether they are reacting to the company and only looking for a niche, like Zenoscope Entertainment has a ton of books with female leads and females on its cover, but its sized up Marvel and DC and its going to go places that will allow them to get more money through its niche. If, DC can afford to pay their creative teams less, to have lower cancellation numbers, and then use that as a way to have more female solo titles, because than itself can make them return money, then its not about gender. Gender isn't also really a factor then we will have on the flip side Marvel making a big deal about how many female writers and artists it has, when compared to DC, when we miss out a lot of the details with both companies, the pay, the hiring process, the should it matter factor with a good writer being a good writer and so money first - then presentation second) Marvel and DC, tight with money, both ideally, as far as being beneficial to me, would be nice to be a bit more proactive and smart and patient - but at the same time, both would be forced to put out more female characters and forced to get more creative teams that could write such characters better if their was profit to be made. Then no matter what either company do, they aren't going to concede they aren't doing enough, and they are probably going to parrot what accomplishments they have made even if they aren't so sincere with the why or how.   
Moderator
#48 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shotgun:I'm talking about position in their respective companies, not their strength or superpowers. Many times Storm is the only female Marvel will showcase when they show all of their top heroes.

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