Should X-23 Have Been Canceled?

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#51 Posted by TheOptimist (713 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly I'm pretty surprised and frustrated at this development. I took a brief hiatus from Marvel and recently began making returns to their properties... X-23 was one that I was incredibly excited to be picking up. I was officially going to add it to my pull list in January, but I picked up the most recent issues and was thrilled with the quality of both story and art.

I also had planned on picking up Avengers Academy, so at least for my part the combination of fanbases has no impact.

I'm seriously hoping that they would actually reconsider the action and allow the book to continue.

#52 Edited by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see x-23 doing this

#53 Posted by OldManJoe (89 posts) - - Show Bio

This was the only series I had on my pull list, so I'm very upset with this turn of events. And on the topic of low sales how the hell is Daken's book still around if X-23 is getting cut, his book sales have been lower then the X-23 series since they were released.

#54 Posted by danhimself (22209 posts) - - Show Bio

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!! HANG ON A MINUTE!!!!!

TMNT Ongoing was only 109?????!!!!!!!

#55 Posted by Rixec (350 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wattup: I agree; Flash has been portrayed greatly and I would hate to see him go. Marvel should never touch him or there will be consequences. I'm already considering consequences for cancelling X-23.

#56 Posted by Taylors005 (107 posts) - - Show Bio

i read mostly DC comics. but x23 is one of the few marvel titles ive read and ive enjoyed. i am very disappointed by this news

#57 Posted by zombietag (1487 posts) - - Show Bio

this title being the only female solo title raises a good point, but at the same time i dont think we should jump the gun.

obviously made this decision with a purpose in mind. maybe theres different plans for her as a character, or maybe they dont want to spread her too thin. maybe theyd rather help the books she'll be apart of sell more by cutting this book out. i dont know, but i dont think its as simple as how the numbers for this title are. i foresee someone sayings "but wolverines spread too thin!" but we all know x-23 is not even 25% as popular as wolverine.

thats my vote, they want to increase sales in avengers academy and the venom event, maybe because they want to invest more in the avengers academy and venom stories for future comics. maybe theres an event or something with these books theyre trying to get a jump on. idk.

#58 Posted by obscurefan (274 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait Wait Wait... X-23 gets canceled, the clone of Wolverine, it gets canceled... but Daken, the son of Wolverine, which is selling much lower than X-23, that gets to keep going? Did it also get canceled and nobody cared to say anything? Or is it still going despite the fact that its selling way lower? And Hulk, which Marvel keeps saying is their hot new popular character, that thing is just barely squeaking by more than X-23? Man I need to look at these sales more often, I've ignored them for too long, because for the past year I've been thinking Marvel has been making crazy decisions, but after looking at these sales charts, I KNOW that Marvel is making crazy decisions.

#59 Posted by Tchokes (81 posts) - - Show Bio

I am a huge fan of Laura, and to be honest I am very glad they stopped her comic book.

X-23 is a very intense character, despite her emotional problems and fragile self-awareness, and the books were taking her, in my opinion, towards the wrong direction. Her problems come from a broken "home" and fundamental wrongs that have come to pass with her, not cosmic things and super powered beings.

Her story and her whole character were set deeply into a real world. She didn't have omgsuperpowers, she had training. She wasn't fighting off a dark alien symbiont, she was fighting her own flaws as a human. When it all became a matter of cross-overing her with cosmic stuff, FF, and so on, the series lost it's track.

FF is not the kind of team who deals with prostitution and stolen childhood, nor does Spiderman or anyone like that. They are unidimensional super heroes at worse, and unprepared to deal with those things at best.

I loved the art, at one point I even liked the script, but Laura belongs with herself and, maybe after that, with her friends in the X-Men (Cessily, Julian, Sooraya).

#60 Posted by laabitres (353 posts) - - Show Bio

well that sucks lol

#61 Posted by obscurefan (274 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay I know I just commented on this, but I've had time to think and I got something I need to get off my chest. I was at Comic-Con in New York and at the Marvel Panel they were asked a question about the how they hear their audiences, and they say "We look at the sales." They talked about how the sales tell them what books people want and which ones they should support. This was their philosophy, follow the sales charts.

And so to that I'd like to repeat... X-23 gets canceled, but Daken, which is selling waaaaay lower than it, gets to keep going. Make of that what you will.

#62 Posted by scifi_superstar (41 posts) - - Show Bio

you people actually dont deserve anything; most of you (not all of you) are just taking up space in a highly overcrowded world. let the companies express their own creativity with out your butting in. you sloths just sit there and let them spoon feed it to you while jucies run down the sides of your mouth. while we are at it, i want to express my admiration for kim kardashian. she is an entrpenur, as evident by her success. also, i have seen her working hard to make money on her tv series that few people could do. there is no doubt she can make things happen. little girls should idolize her because she is beautiful, intellegent and brave.

#63 Posted by Vance Astro (91052 posts) - - Show Bio
@scifi_superstar said:

you people actually dont deserve anything; most of you (not all of you) are just taking up space in a highly overcrowded world. let the companies express their own creativity with out your butting in. you sloths just sit there and let them spoon feed it to you while jucies run down the sides of your mouth. while we are at it, i want to express my admiration for kim kardashian. she is an entrpenur, as evident by her success. also, i have seen her working hard to make money on her tv series that few people could do. there is no doubt she can make things happen. little girls should idolize her because she is beautiful, intellegent and brave.

Now tell us how you really feel.
Moderator
#64 Posted by War Killer (19851 posts) - - Show Bio
@obscurefan said:

Okay I know I just commented on this, but I've had time to think and I got something I need to get off my chest. I was at Comic-Con in New York and at the Marvel Panel they were asked a question about the how they hear their audiences, and they say "We look at the sales." They talked about how the sales tell them what books people want and which ones they should support. This was their philosophy, follow the sales charts.

My main issue with this...method is that Marvel says that they see if fans like a book or not simply by the sale charts, but the problem with this is that some people choose to not read a book because they're not a fan of the direction of the book that a current writer may be taking the series. This doesn't mean that the readers hate the book, they just don't like the direction of the series. The main issue with this is that Marvel tells fans that if they don't like something, what a writer is doing with a character, then don't buy the books, but if they don't buy the books (like Marvel tells them to do) and the sales get low they cancel the book. But that's not what the reader wanted when they stopped reading the book, they just didn't like the direction of where the current writer was taking the character('s) but Marvel can't see that just buy the sale charts which is their biggest problem with their whole method of seeing what fans like and don't like.
 
The reason readers might not be reading a book and the reason why it's sales aren't great isn't because those readers don't like the character, they just want a new writer...but Marvel can't see thing through charts and thus when they see sales are low on that certain book Marvel cancels it. So now, fans are forced to read their favorite series because they are afraid that it may get canceled if they don't, but the problem is that even if they don't like the direction of the book they can't do anything about, which in turn Marvel sees sales and think that those fans actually LIKE where the current writer is taking it (Bendis....<_<) and continue to allow that writer write the book. It's a flawed system.
#65 Posted by Cafeterialoca (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@obscurefan: Did you read Daken's solicit? Sounds like it's ending to me.

#66 Posted by hellogan (55 posts) - - Show Bio

I have always thought that there should be more female lead roles in comics, with titles that can carry their weight... However, X-23 was never a headliner for me so although this seemed like a more predominate comic for readers. It comes as no surprise to me. I am curious? With all the budget cuts that Marvel is making is it truely because of sales or is there other key factors that in play. Is there online focus starting to eat away at the news stand? And what about all the money Marvel Studios generates from it's films? You would think that some of that could be redirected to keep titles afloat? Or, it might just be a case of pour writing... Since I never read it personally, I don't know? I always get concerned when titles are canceled however. I'm a fan of the paper. And want them always to remain comic Books!

#67 Posted by DMC (1550 posts) - - Show Bio

I like X-23 and I'll admit I was surprised that she got her own ongoing series. When I think about it, it was like Marvel was pulling a DC (pre Flashpoint) and actually taking a chance on one of their newer/less known female characters. But unlike DC Marvel doesn't seem to commit to ongoing female titles for very long.....though there are exceptions (She-Hulk, Ms Marvel).

#68 Edited by kadosho_16bit (76 posts) - - Show Bio

That's a bummer, the art looks great, maybe its the writer who was unhappy. Having two careers is no easy piece of cake. But the character will be alive in other series, just not her own. Such a shame. (and the sales records didn't look too hot) Marvel makes up its mind on concrete reports, if a series isn't fairing well that might be it.

#69 Posted by jason44143 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

im all for having more strong female heroes in comics, but how about they make one thats not just a ripoff of another character. and while were at it could we just have them stop ripping off wolverine entirely, there was only one ripoff that was ever acceptable and that was sabretooth

#70 Posted by obscurefan (274 posts) - - Show Bio

@War Killer said:

@obscurefan said:

Okay I know I just commented on this, but I've had time to think and I got something I need to get off my chest. I was at Comic-Con in New York and at the Marvel Panel they were asked a question about the how they hear their audiences, and they say "We look at the sales." They talked about how the sales tell them what books people want and which ones they should support. This was their philosophy, follow the sales charts.

My main issue with this...method is that Marvel says that they see if fans like a book or not simply by the sale charts, but the problem with this is that some people choose to not read a book because they're not a fan of the direction of the book that a current writer may be taking the series. This doesn't mean that the readers hate the book, they just don't like the direction of the series. The main issue with this is that Marvel tells fans that if they don't like something, what a writer is doing with a character, then don't buy the books, but if they don't buy the books (like Marvel tells them to do) and the sales get low they cancel the book. But that's not what the reader wanted when they stopped reading the book, they just didn't like the direction of where the current writer was taking the character('s) but Marvel can't see that just buy the sale charts which is their biggest problem with their whole method of seeing what fans like and don't like. The reason readers might not be reading a book and the reason why it's sales aren't great isn't because those readers don't like the character, they just want a new writer...but Marvel can't see thing through charts and thus when they see sales are low on that certain book Marvel cancels it. So now, fans are forced to read their favorite series because they are afraid that it may get canceled if they don't, but the problem is that even if they don't like the direction of the book they can't do anything about, which in turn Marvel sees sales and think that those fans actually LIKE where the current writer is taking it (Bendis....<_<) and continue to allow that writer write the book. It's a flawed system.

You make an very good point. Take the Avengers books for example, so many fans out there who read the book hate what Bendis has done to the team and really don't like how he handles it. But it's the Avengers, its the team they love, so they can't stop reading it even if they don't like the way he's writing it. At Comic-Con when they announced that they would have a third Avengers book written by Bendis, the audience was dead silent, they even paused to wait for applause and you could hear a pin drop. They kept talking and taking pauses waiting for the audience to applaud, and yet the audience refused to do it until the end when they just gave this mild half applause. Clearly the fans don't want a third Bendis Avengers, but it will sell just because its the Avengers, so Marvel will think that's what they want.

Or take the big crossover stories. So many fans out there say they're tired of crossovers and don't want them for a while, and at the panel I mentioned Marvel specifically brought this up. But they said clearly they do want them, because they sell well. But take Fear Itself for example, in that story Bucky dies, Thor dies, so much other insane stuff happens. So we may not like it, but we feel like we have to buy it. It's like having a class that you hate, and the teacher says "hey on this day you don't have to come to class, attendance is totally optional... but if you don't show up then you won't know at all what is going to be on the finals." You might hate that class... but if you want to know what's going on, then you kind of have to attend it.

#71 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

One of the two X-titles that I can bear to read got cancelled.

You've given me the finger too many times, Marvel Comics.

#72 Posted by LeonTh3Duke (18 posts) - - Show Bio

I loved the current ongoing series but I love the character even more, yeah she'll still be making appearances, but when she is just another member of a team she seems to just be there to fight and kill; which is why her having her own series was so great. She is such a troubled character and although she could kick some serious ass what made me like her to begin with were the emotional/mental struggles she dealt with which had much more focus in her ongoing series than they did in her previous appearances. There was so much more they could have done, she still has a lot of development and issues to get through and I can only hope that if the 20th issue is the last that when she is in Avengers Academy she gets the attention she deserves, and isn't just there crack skulls.

#73 Posted by ntb1124 (949 posts) - - Show Bio

That is a definite sad face...hopefully she will be back solo again later...

#74 Posted by andrea_mendoza1997 (342 posts) - - Show Bio

X-23 :( She was still a character developing.

#75 Posted by EugeneSaxe (227 posts) - - Show Bio

If you want a hundred Spider-Man/Wolverine/Avengers books, something has to go.

#76 Posted by Chibio (920 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes!

#77 Posted by JonesDeini (3619 posts) - - Show Bio

@Tchokes said:

I am a huge fan of Laura, and to be honest I am very glad they stopped her comic book.

X-23 is a very intense character, despite her emotional problems and fragile self-awareness, and the books were taking her, in my opinion, towards the wrong direction. Her problems come from a broken "home" and fundamental wrongs that have come to pass with her, not cosmic things and super powered beings.

Her story and her whole character were set deeply into a real world. She didn't have omgsuperpowers, she had training. She wasn't fighting off a dark alien symbiont, she was fighting her own flaws as a human. When it all became a matter of cross-overing her with cosmic stuff, FF, and so on, the series lost it's track.

FF is not the kind of team who deals with prostitution and stolen childhood, nor does Spiderman or anyone like that. They are unidimensional super heroes at worse, and unprepared to deal with those things at best.

I loved the art, at one point I even liked the script, but Laura belongs with herself and, maybe after that, with her friends in the X-Men (Cessily, Julian, Sooraya).

I agree with the core of what you said here, but I wouldn't characterize Spidey or the FF as unidimensional characters. Especially when written by a skilled author. I think nearly any character can tackle any topic if it's approached correctly. I dropped X-23 for many of the reasons you named. I felt she was becoming a supporting character in her own ongoing and the narrative focus was less on things which made Laura so unique and more on "What crazy situation/crossover can we come up with next?!" I'm sure the fans will feel the loss but at the end of the day, comics is a business and they have to make prudent business decisions based on a myriad of factors. As much as I loved Xombi, Secret Six, Unknown Soldier, Black Widow, etc. I know that more often than not critically acclaimed, cult favorites get canclled. It's the nature of the game.

#78 Posted by JonesDeini (3619 posts) - - Show Bio

@obscurefan:

LOL I feel what you're saying but before I spend a penny on a story I don't like I'll read in store/check synopsis/or borrow a friends copies. As I've gotten more and more immersed in the big two's universes I've learned that the books I enjoy the most are the one's least attached to the big events or "essential" to the Universe. I get more out of my books that do their own thing and I don't care a whit how much the stories I enjoy "matter" to present continuity. Do I enjoy when I see a reference to it? Sure. But I'm content to read S.H.I.E.L.D. and only see it "matter" in Hickman's other books, and even then, tangentially. I'm done with events and have been since Brightest Day. There's nothing that can happen in a crossover that I can't get from a wiki page these days. To be honest, that's how I got caught up on a good deal of 1999-2008 comics history.

#79 Posted by obscurefan (274 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonesDeini said:

@obscurefan:

LOL I feel what you're saying but before I spend a penny on a story I don't like I'll read in store/check synopsis/or borrow a friends copies. As I've gotten more and more immersed in the big two's universes I've learned that the books I enjoy the most are the one's least attached to the big events or "essential" to the Universe. I get more out of my books that do their own thing and I don't care a whit how much the stories I enjoy "matter" to present continuity. Do I enjoy when I see a reference to it? Sure. But I'm content to read S.H.I.E.L.D. and only see it "matter" in Hickman's other books, and even then, tangentially. I'm done with events and have been since Brightest Day. There's nothing that can happen in a crossover that I can't get from a wiki page these days. To be honest, that's how I got caught up on a good deal of 1999-2008 comics history.

I'm there with you, I've come to see that most of my favorite books are the ones that can stand to the side and avoid any events and get to do their own thing.

#80 Posted by Loneshot (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Between X-Force and having had read the last issue of X-23, i found the character to be really boring.

#81 Posted by Outside_85 (8008 posts) - - Show Bio

Pity, was the only Marvel title I bothered reading.

#82 Posted by Eyz (3095 posts) - - Show Bio

One less Marvel series for me to follow... I already stopped Ghost Rider (when they canceled Aaron's book), Thor, Hulk (in the middle of the Red Hulk original story arc), Punisher (when "Frankencastle" started), Mighty Avengers (canceled too), Wolverine Weapon X and now this!

I'm down to only 90s Omnibus reprints now. (Spidey 2099, Danny Ketch, Deadpool Classics...)

#83 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, and burned in Hell. 

#84 Posted by EdwardWindsor (14399 posts) - - Show Bio

Only people i know who brought this siad it was a really bitty series , never consitantly good or bad just very middle ground. I guess most people thought the same and stopped buying it. Shame the characetr has potential.

#85 Posted by Meteorite (3351 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll admit that I wasn't reading this but it still seems like a terrible decision

#86 Edited by FoxxFireArt (3545 posts) - - Show Bio

When was Marvel even advertising the book? They've been so busy pushing events such as Schism and the two X-Men books they will be selling. Marvel is just tone deaf when it comes to comics with a good female lead.

#87 Posted by jubilee042 (1353 posts) - - Show Bio

@mikeclark1982 said:

MARVEL DOES NOT CARE ABOUT WOMEN!

@cosmo111687 said:

At least let X-23 get to issue #23, Marvel.

#88 Edited by _transgojobot_ (49 posts) - - Show Bio

Too bad. Even tough the recent story-arc felt rather clunky to me, the title had some promise to it and that's why I stuck around with it. Hell, I was hoping Jubilee would return because she and X-23's "Buddy-Cop-Summer-Release" friendship was fun to read. ::sigh:: Anyway, I look forward to learning whatever Marjorie Liu's "secret projects" are and picking them up in the not-to-distant future.

#89 Posted by ElCapitan (209 posts) - - Show Bio

It's a bummer. I pulled X-23 and it will be a shame to see her book go. I hope they find more work for Marjorie Liu.

#90 Posted by The Impersonator (4903 posts) - - Show Bio

But does that mean boys don't like reading about powerful ladies?

Not quite true. I'm pretty sure they do read it. That also includes us.

Could these be more projects with Marvel?

It's most obvious that Marvel started to make new decisions lately. Once these decisions have been made, they had to write those new books and can't get enough time on the ones that are getting successful. So why bother doing more new projects? Finish what you're doing in the first place. Then focus on the new projects. Too many projects can be a workload and it affects the writers/artists' schedule. This is called a Scope Creep. Things are not being done on time or being well-defined.

Do you think Marvel needs more female driven stories?

Yes. We live in North America where males and females can work, enjoy, and have fun. This is not Saudi Arabia or any Middle-Eastern country where women can't drive to work and pick up their kids from school.

#91 Posted by SneakyBawls (23 posts) - - Show Bio

X-23 is one of my favorite characters. Innocence Lost was one of the series that got me back into comics after a long absence. But I was actually talking to my brother just last week that I was going to quit this title. I have pretty much every X-23 related important series collected and THIS is not the X-23 that I love. My X was the bloody berserker killing machine from things like Target X and the X-Force comics (Crain FTW!). This version is way, way too timid and vanilla. She sadly turned into what Wolverine is now instead of what he used to be. I kept buying her title hoping that at some point down the line someone would take over and bring back the X that made even Wolverine wince....LOL This title almost belonged over with the kiddie comics Spidey Adventures and Super Hero Squad...It's sucks....Here's to what started out great but ended with Disney...

#92 Posted by victoriancuckoo (228 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe they want her to join Wolverine and the X-Men?

#93 Posted by Iron Fist Angel (228 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel for the X-23 fans out there but I honestly have never liked the character. I'm pretty much completely sick of anything which spins off from the horribly overused Wolverine.

#94 Posted by Shamelesslysupportinaznballers (553 posts) - - Show Bio

The only people who lose are the people who just want to see X-23 in a solo book but in reality, they should be happy that she is actually being pushed and Marvel is trying to give her a bigger audience. It's easier to cancel X-23 and put her in AA than to cancel AA and than have all those characters in comic book limbo. Otherwise it's not like she's being written off anywhere. Not only will she be in AA but she will be in that new F4 crossover.

This is a pretty smart move by Marvel to further expose their lesser known characters & face it, X-23 is one of them.

#95 Posted by Nasar7 (157 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Impersonator said:

Yes. We live in North America where males and females can work, enjoy, and have fun. This is not Saudi Arabia or any Middle-Eastern country where women can't drive to work and pick up their kids from school.

Was this really necessary, or do you just enjoy showcasing your ignorance?

#96 Posted by The Impersonator (4903 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nasar7: This isn't some enjoyment. Why else I would write this?

I'm not saying anything against women in Saudi Arabia. Yes, they should have the rights too. I'm only saying the fact that there should be more female driven stories in comics or any other media format.

#97 Posted by IrishX (2262 posts) - - Show Bio

The X-23 image that's an homage to Minor Threat is absolutely brilliant.

#98 Posted by KDarkholme (337 posts) - - Show Bio

Im going to miss it.

#99 Posted by Jordanstine (907 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel just don't know how to use women properly.

You would think by now they would've handled Ms. Marvel's (of all people - considering she bears their trademark name alone) push to be an A-List type character well.

But nope, instead they ruin her solo series and it was cancelled after barely 4 years.

R.I.P.

Ms. Marvel 2006-2010

#100 Posted by waruikumo (357 posts) - - Show Bio

It's Marvel

Always assume it's the wrong move. They are terrible at character planning.

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