Off My Mind: The Connection Between X-23 & Mr. Sinister

Posted by G-Man (30641 posts) - - Show Bio

      
X-23 is a relatively new character, having made her comic debut in2003's NYX #3. We've seen her origin in the six issue arc Innocence Lost but could there be more to it than we realize? Marvel says X-23 will be embarking on a search to find her soul in the coming months because she is a clone. There are two characters in the Marvel Universe that have an affinity for clones: Mr. Sinister and Professor Miles Warren (who was mainly obsessed with Gwen Stacy and Peter Parker). Mr. Sinister may be dead but we know he managed to create a clone of himself before his demise. Miss Sinister is that clone and she will be bad news for X-23 in the months to come.
 
Since Mr. Sinister spent so much of his life studying mutants and cloning, could it be possible that he was somehow involved in the creation of X-23? It was Dr. Martin Sutter that put Sarah Kinney and Zander Rice in charge of creating a clone of Wolverine. We've seen Sinister working in disguise in the past, such as the time he tried to clone Namor during WWII or when he worked on Project: Black Womb with Brian Xavier, the father of Charles Xavier. With his history of secretly posing as others to continue his research, could it be possible that he was present at the Facility when X-23 was created? 
== TEASER == 
 X-23 was found in Sinister's lab in Age of Apocalypse.
We don't know a lot about Martin Sutter, who Zander Rice had killed. There is the possibility that Sinister was the one that set Sutter on the path to the creation of X-23. Sinister could have been curious to see the Facility's progress in attempting to clone Wolverine. In the Age of Apocalypse reality, she was even found in Sinister's lab (although she was revealed to be Wolverine and Mariko Yashida's daughter). Sinister can't keep his hands off of clones. If it was revealed that Sinister was involved, it wouldn't be surprising. 
 
Would Sinister's involvement in her creation add to her character? It would give her more of a connection to the X-Men universe and allow her to relate to Sinister's other victims such as Cyclops or Madelyne Pryor. Because successful cloning should be a rare event, it makes sense that Sinister would be involved. Despite that, X-23's story is strong enough to stand on its own. There isn't a need to put Sinister behind the scenes at her creation. Not all X-characters should have secret ties to their past. X-23's origin is obviously linked to Wolverine's and that should be enough. Miss Sinister may become an enemy for X-23 but there isn't a reason to add this twist to her past. 
 
Do you think it would make sense if Sinister was somehow involved?
Staff
#1 Posted by EnSabahNurX (2313 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't mind if sinister had that kind of connection to laura, it will give her a recurring villainess and it wouldn't be too far fetched since sinister is clone obsessed. I'll look forward to seeing how this all plays out since x-23 is one of the main comics i read aside from uncanny x-factor.  
 
Maybe miss sinister tries to bargain with laura, promising her the key to finding her soul for her services, to be experimented on or take a sample of.

#2 Posted by Grimoire (531 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not really familiar with Sinister. Maybe a 3- minute about this character would be good. lol

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#3 Posted by FoxxFireArt (3547 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Mistress Sinister sounds better, but there is probably a website with some weird pictures that might show up if googled. In fact, I just looked it up. Oh, I want that out of my head, but I already know it's there forever. Nothing good comes out of a google search starting with "mistress".
Dude, you know who Sinister now reminds me of? Dr. Frank N. Furter from The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Seems alright to have X-23 and Sinister in a story. Just seems convoluted to try and meld their history.

Clones are now the lazy writers way of pulling back a death., but seems far more plausible with Sinister than in many other cases. I'd say it's very soap opera, but I'm not sure how she would qualify. Is she an evil twin or an eviler twin?

#4 Posted by Metatron_Da_Don (1037 posts) - - Show Bio

 " There isn't a need to put Sinister behind the scenes at her creation. Not all X-characters should have secret ties to their past." 
 
Wouldn't be surprised, it would be a predictable retcon. But y would he want a Wolverine clone that is noot an omega-level mutant. Maybe to take her body?

#5 Posted by aztek_the_lost (28224 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like this kind of reveal is something of an older era, it wouldn't add anything to Sinister's character unless they came up with some really cool way he pulled the strings from behind and all the pieces of her life up to this point have coincided with his plans and it wouldn't really add anything to X-23 either (nor take away) 
 
basically if it would occur, it would be that last page cliffhanger shock that doesn't actually surprise anyone

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#6 Posted by J1ml33 (518 posts) - - Show Bio
@FoxxFireArt:  well evil twins are boring but I do get your point that it is a writers lazy way out ...
over all good show ..( and by the way I am going to do that Google search ..:D)
#7 Posted by Doctor!!!!! (2055 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys really need a 3 min expert on X-23, please!!!!!

#8 Posted by karrob (4277 posts) - - Show Bio
@EnSabahNurX said:
" I wouldn't mind if sinister had that kind of connection to laura, it will give her a recurring villainess and it wouldn't be too far fetched since sinister is clone obsessed. I'll look forward to seeing how this all plays out since x-23 is one of the main comics i read aside from uncanny x-factor.   Maybe miss sinister tries to bargain with laura, promising her the key to finding her soul for her services, to be experimented on or take a sample of. "
That would be cool!
#9 Posted by tigerex78 (147 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure it would add a whole lot to the character.  It would be interesting to see how that plays out.  The soap opera comment is true but in a way comics are like a soap opera.  Look at Cyclops love life.

#10 Posted by Gawdzilla (376 posts) - - Show Bio

I bet Mr. Sinister was Sarah Kinney's graduate adviser when she was getting her degree in genetics

#11 Posted by FoxxFireArt (3547 posts) - - Show Bio
@tigerex78 said:
" The soap opera comment is true but in a way comics are like a soap opera.  "
Thank You!!
#12 Posted by fbdarkangel (4884 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gawdzilla said:
" I bet Mr. Sinister was Sarah Kinney's graduate adviser when she was getting her degree in genetics "
that's not an entirely impossible idea!
#13 Posted by Illyana Rasputin (2771 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope Laura finds what she is looking for. The current Magik is a mystical copy of the true Illyana Rasputin, and currently seeks her own soul. A common thread in the X-Titles as of late.

#14 Posted by Ahmed Sherif (262 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it is best if Mr. Sinister wasn't involved. If he was it'll get too complicating.

#15 Posted by CATMANEXE (17052 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Posted by leokearon (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

It would be interesting but Sinister is mostly after Summers and Grey DNA and would it really add to her character other than give her another foe to fight
#17 Posted by Pacperson (307 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope not.....Would seem rather pointless...Her origin is fine how it is

#18 Posted by comicbikerscott (152 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it make it interesting but its fine as it is now
#19 Posted by Bobby X (1141 posts) - - Show Bio
@CATMANEXE said:
" @G-Man: 
* looks at thread title *
ahem - Miss Sinister. Please, respect her choice. We live in a free country  ^_^
 
and its possible...if you ever read the Gambit Origins 1-shot...
Remy's very first job for the guild was for Essex, and he had to steal DNA samples
from the Weapon X facility which happened to fall on the same exact moment of Weapon
X's now classic escape from containment.
"
I was wondering about this myself...is that one-shot considered canon, do we know?
#20 Posted by sora_thekey (8152 posts) - - Show Bio

If Sinister was involved it would make a lot of sense sense... but let me ask you this. 
When has it taken Sinister 22 bad clones to get the 23rd right? 
What I mean is that (not that I know a lot on the subject) wouldn't Sinister get it right on the first try?

Moderator
#21 Posted by thatlad (590 posts) - - Show Bio

Making Sinister part of X-23's creation would be lazy and unimaginative writing for me. I mean someone else made a good point, why would it take him 23 attempts? He's shown he's mastered cloning in the past. He's cloned sabertooth before so it makes no sense that he'd have any problems with Wolverine's cloning process and have to make a female version. 
 
It would make sense that Sinister would be interested in Laura from a standpoint that she's different from the clones he has made, maybe he's interested in seeing how others have made clones compared to his own methods.  
 
Maybe Laura does have a soul and that's the reason why Sinister is interested in her, after all Miss Sinister is a clone herself and there may be something in Laura's genetic make up that Miss Sinister needs to survive etc.

#22 Posted by xerox_kitty (15761 posts) - - Show Bio
@G-Man said:
"Mr. Sinister may be dead but we know he managed to create a clone of himself before his demise."
I'm definitely counting on that at the very least, as MISTER Sinister is one of my all-time favourite X-Villains.  Hey, if chrone dome Chuck can be his own clone, then I'm sure Mr N Essex figured that part out decades earlier. 
 
As for Laura, I think that this would be a great twist... but told even greater by her real fathers; Kyle & Yost.  Sadly, I don't think I'm going to get that much of a Christmas surprise from Marvel...  But a fan-girl can dream, can't she???
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#23 Posted by Illyana Rasputin (2771 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not certain if Sinister was responsible for the creation of Laura Kinney, but I suspect he had something to do with Hope Summers.

#24 Posted by weapon154 (339 posts) - - Show Bio

It would make sense if the X-23 found in Age of Apocalypse could be a clone, she looks to young to be her.

#25 Posted by frogjitsu (478 posts) - - Show Bio
@aztek the lost said:
" I feel like this kind of reveal is something of an older era, it wouldn't add anything to Sinister's character unless they came up with some really cool way he pulled the strings from behind and all the pieces of her life up to this point have coincided with his plans and it wouldn't really add anything to X-23 either (nor take away)  basically if it would occur, it would be that last page cliffhanger shock that doesn't actually surprise anyone "
Exactly, it would be pretty much pointless, so why even bother.
#26 Posted by Wingfoot (98 posts) - - Show Bio

Hi ! 
 
Mister Sinister involved in X-23 creation ? I don't think so. Will Mister Sinister be involved ? Maybe. Why ? Because when writers are running out of ideas, Sinister is always involved... 
 
Hihane washte.
#27 Posted by kaanonm (39 posts) - - Show Bio
@EnSabahNurX: She already has a recurring villianess - Kimura
#28 Posted by Journey Into Chaos (314 posts) - - Show Bio

Anything is possible at this rate in the marvel universe.

#29 Posted by savri (48 posts) - - Show Bio

I love X 23 the way she is, and it is true that she is strong enough without Sinister in the mix. What happened to good characters that took time in finding out everything about themselves? It can happen but, I have said this before, "We live in a microwave society, where everything people want is NOW and to wait, is unheard off."  
PLEASE do not ruin a great  X-Men by adding to much, to fast!!!

#30 Posted by Deadcool (6809 posts) - - Show Bio

THIS IS AN INTERESTING POST!!!

#31 Posted by Dirty__1 (61 posts) - - Show Bio

 I can see Marvel doing this just so she has some more ties to the X-Men outside of Wolverine. I don't really see the need for it though. I think they need to slow down on her going on this soul search to be honest. I think she needs to go out of the spot light a little then have it worked up.

#32 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wingfoot:  
Tabernacle Preach, I hate that about X-Men. Sinister's a dope villain. But please stop using him as a deus ex machina!!! Her origin is good enough. Marjorie Liu's too good a writer to resort to something that cheap though. I'm sure Sinister'll play a big part in this next arc. And that's fine by me, I can very much so get why she'd (he?) be interested in X-23. 
#33 Posted by Snickersss (253 posts) - - Show Bio

oh god you know I honestly would not be surprised at all if he was involved with X-23.  I honestly don't understand much of what he does really does anything.
#34 Edited by Eyz (3095 posts) - - Show Bio

More Miss Sinister is always a good thing :P
 
...what??! Why are you all lookin' at me like this?!?
 
Anyway, like Wolverine before her, I expect lots of twists and retcons to her origins to happen in the future! That's all Weapon X's survivors' destiny!

#35 Posted by KumoriKunoichi (588 posts) - - Show Bio

It might be nice, if it isn't a stupid reason why Sinister got involved. 
He did want the Cyclops/Jean Grey offspring because he thought they'd make a powerful mutant that would help him against Apocalypse (etc etc. He ended up making his own Jean and they had Cable). 
With Wolverine, you have two "children" if you will: Daken, Wolverine's Biological Son, and X-23, Wolverine's Clone. 
The question is: With Daken's existence, why would there be a need for Sinister to assist in X-23's birth? (I'm thinking maybe it's because he was going to possibly use Daken, but Rommy (as I call him) got to him first).  
As for Wolverine: He's no Phoenix but he's got a healing factor, the claws and the berserker rage. Perhaps, if Sinister is involved, he wanted to create something that he could corrupt from birth. However, it's just a theory.

#36 Edited by FalcomAdol (116 posts) - - Show Bio
@Grimoire: You can get all the Sinister you might ever want by going to the Marvel Essentials line.  The later volumes of X-Men and also Essential X- Factor 1-3 (runs from the late 80s ) cover the entire madness related to Scott quitting the team to be with Madelyne, then quitting Madelyne to be with the revived Jean Grey, then the entire insanity related to Nathan. 
 
Sinister was basically how Claremont finally cleaned up the multi-year long mess that was Scott's life after X-Factor started publication.  It's good eating, because that was an extremely unsatisfying period of time.  X-Factor was a freaking disaster, deprived Scott of a happy ending. 
 
edit: X-Factor not X-Force.  God damn you Marvel!!!!!
#37 Edited by Scary Tousers (48 posts) - - Show Bio

It would be good, but only if Sinister would have some greater plan in motion, scheme in which X-23 is his unwilling paw. Revealing that he has been behind her creation and could have been manipulating her entire life, even after his own death, as Miss Sinister or by putting certain events in motion earlier, would be great twist. First, it fits Sinister, manipulator and sciencist, whose similiar schemes we already seen in Inferno or Weapon X, it adds new level of horror to the character. It also fits X-23, victim of manipulations, girl who has been enslaved and used as a weapon since her "birth", who fears nothing else than being trapped in a cage again, controlled and manipulated by people who don't see her as a person but mere tool. Her struggle to break from Sinister's control would be interesting thing to watch. 
Shortly, I think that  both characters would benefits from that.

#38 Edited by Scary Tousers (48 posts) - - Show Bio
@KumoriKunoichi said:

 The question is: With Daken's existence, why would there be a need for Sinister to assist in X-23's birth? (I'm thinking maybe it's because he was going to possibly use Daken, but Rommy (as I call him) got to him first). 

Or maybe Daken was "imperfect"? Maybe he just happened to doesn't have whatever Essex needed? Similiar concept was in "Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card. Army needed a brilliant mind to be their strategist in war, mind they wanted to shape since early childchood. They selected certain kid, but he refused, so they set things up to recruit his future children. But they didn't took either his first or second child, because they has "deffective" personality - Peter, eldest son, was sociopath and daughter, Valentine, was too sensitive. Only last child, Ender, was perfect for them. Maybe that's similiar case? Daken just doesn't have what Sinister needs? Maybe he is just too smart and too good manipulator to fit in Sinister's plans?
#39 Posted by sweatboy (786 posts) - - Show Bio

 "although she was revealed to be Wolverine and Mariko Yashida's daughter"  :O re writing my Daken????  
 
@Illyana Rasputin
said:

" I am not certain if Sinister was responsible for the creation of Laura Kinney, but I suspect he had something to do with Hope Summers. "

 It is true that Sinister's interests lied more around Cyclops, (his old friend? or was that just in one line of the comic?) and Dark Beast, rather than Wolverine, even though he's like one of the most experimented-on mutants. Every time Wolverine is abducted or his past comes up, it usually has nothing to do with Sinister. And the only time i've seen them together is...when sinister was paying attention to someone else and Wolverine just got in the way. Even after Wolverine became Death, did Sinister show interest in studying/creating a wolverine? BUT that picture, of the FEMALE Sinister with her leg on....Psylocke? Kitty? ok i see claws,...makes it a FACT that now these stories will be connected. Maybe MISS Sinister takes a bigger interest in female mutants, like trucks and dolls
#40 Posted by fbdarkangel (4884 posts) - - Show Bio

meh I'm going have to agree with some saying that sinister will only complicate things for readers, and anyways miss sinister will be showing up!

#41 Posted by Havok80 (16 posts) - - Show Bio

It's been done over and over ! No it will certainly not be shocking it Sinister is behind this at all. But on the other hand I like him as a character, perhaps this new arc will give her a personality and a better storyline. Now someone get with Jullian, if not her I will have them draw me in the book!

#42 Posted by JonesDeini (3620 posts) - - Show Bio
@Scary Tousers:  
It adds a new level of horror to Sinister? How so? That's his same old overused shtick. Or did you mean add a new level of horror to Laura's past? I don't see how in that case either. Because it doesn't change a thing really, she still a creation that was used in either case, leaving here with the same end result, same journey for identity. Laura's origin's fine IMO, why muck it up by adding unnecessary changes so earlier. No need to make the same mistakes made by writers of wolverine with her. I read the issue and Ms. sinister doesn't show up til the end, but honestly I don't foresee this story ending well if Liu goes with all the obvious ways to use sinister.  

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