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    X-23

    Character » X-23 appears in 2382 issues.

    X-23 is a product of the Weapon X program, born from a damaged sample of Wolverine's DNA. She has recently aged up, being saved from the Vault.

    Is X-23 The Most Deserving X-Woman For A Singles Title?

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    deactivated-5c6600594117e

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    X-23 #4
    X-23 #4



     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Is Laura the most deserving female among the X-Ranks for her own solo title? Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of hers and I am really liking the new series with her and Gambit. Marjorie Liu has developed a great Wolverine/Jubilee relationship between the two and it gets better with every issue. Laura leaving Utopia is the best thing that could have happened to her at this point because the monthly title gives her a chance to grow as a character.  
     
    But my question is this: Aren't there other X-Ladies that have the fan support to deserve their own singles title every month? You've got established favorites like Storm, Rogue, Psylocke and Emma Frost. Some of these ladies have had their own singles books in the past and I honestly feel they have the current fan support to sustain a monthly ongoing title.  
     
    Viners, what do you think? Would you read a monthly book starring one of the ladies I mentioned? Would you rather see someone else?  
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    xerox_kitty

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    #1  Edited By xerox_kitty

    The problem is that Storm, Rogue & Psylocke have all had various mini series.  They sold okay, but not great.  Emma Frsot has even had her own on-going, but it didn't mange to hold enough interest.  Purely from a sales point of view, X-23 keeps bringing in money for Marvel.  They don't care whether it's quality of not.  They just see the dollar signs.

     

    Could any of the other X-Ladies bring in a crowd on a solo book?  I doubt it.  X-Men Legacy is the closest thing you're going to get to a Rogue solo series.  The X-Men: World's Apart series should have been called Storm: World's Apart, but it probably wouldn't have sold as well.  Even Pixie's Last Stand struggled to hold fans' interest & that featured the next generation of X-Girls.  
     

    As a fan on a budget, I'd rather see all solo titles axed.  The latest X-23 series is the first title I've dropped in months.  The art is dull and I find that the writing is forced.  So I refuse to part with my cash for the full cover price on a title I think is sub-standard.     And most solo titles, whether they focus on X-Women or X-Men, are like that.  Not worth the cover price...

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    deactivated-5c6600594117e

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    @xerox-kitty: 
     
    Very true on all the minis & limited series with the X-Ladies. Maybe they just need a monthly called the x-Ladies and it can have a revolving roster that spotlights some of the ones we don't see all the time. 
     
    I'm going to have to disagree on Laura's book. It's one of my favorite books right now and I love her and Gambit together.
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    SC

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    #3  Edited By SC  Moderator

    The most deserving? I sort of find that question hard to answer because how do we define deserving? Character popularity, traditional sales, projected sales, writer interest, relevance, markability etc? As it stands now, I am cool with a X-23 book over a few of the other characters, because X-23 is more of a blank slate in a sense, I mean, in the sense she isn't extremely loud or opinionated, her character archetype is fairly simple, and because of that, lots of cameo characters play well off her, I really enjoyed Storm in the few appearances she was in X-23, Gambit is pretty awesome, I know he isn't a girl, but I hope more other x-Characters get some moments to interact with Laura. A lot of characters work well off her, or at least I feel they would. Psylocke and X-23 have had some nice shared moments too. Emma and X-23 have, I think there is more with other characters.  
     
    I feel Carey moving on from Legacy could continue with a Rogue ongoing. Her ongoings in the past really sucked, I would like her to get a second chance. I feel Storm is getting a raw deal as well. Then again, quite a few X-Females are, not just in X-Men, but New Mutants and Gen X too, plus many males too. lol sorry, veering. Uhm.  
     
    I like the current Jubes/Wolvie mini too, and because of Jibes involvement, it could pass off as a solo and I would read it... 

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    xerox_kitty

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    #4  Edited By xerox_kitty
    @Jake Fury: I like the idea of an X-Ladies anthology series, focusing on different characters one month to the next (and cameos from the others).  It would certainly be more appealing to female readers than Models Inc ;) 
     
    To each their own.  I know that the series is quite popular, but I don't see anything in Laura or the other characters that I recognise from previous characterisations.
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    manofsteel42

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    #5  Edited By manofsteel42

    I really think Laura deserves what she has, she is intresting as hell and you get to see a bit of a "coming of age" thing w/ her as you follow her on her journey. 
    I seriously disagree w/ X-K. the art is amazing (especially #7) however, the story does get a bit bland/slow at times but then it really picks up. 
    I dont know much about Rogue,Psylocke, or Storm cause they dont really intrest me that much (maybe just as eyecandy or a supporting role to another hero) but If Emma was to get her own title again Id so pick it up. Shes cold, beautiful, & knows what she wants which at first makes people think "boy what a B1tch" but would make for a dang good story tellin. I Hope X-23 keeps her title cause its a Great story every month& that maybe they might even give OTHER characters a mini series or somthing...Maybe like HELLION!

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    fbdarkangel

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    #6  Edited By fbdarkangel

    Hell yes! :) :) :)

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    CellphoneGirl

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    #7  Edited By CellphoneGirl

    Don't get me wrong, i really do like X-23 but i'm sure another character would be more deserving but like Xerox-Kitty said they have tried that in the past but it hasn't done that well for those characters.

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    TheBlueAngel93

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    #8  Edited By TheBlueAngel93

    Honestly I'm just happy to see more female character getting there own titles, and X-23 being one of my top three favorite X-Women, I'm happy to see her having such a successful series so far. But in truth I hope that X-23 will be an example to Marvel that we, the readers, and using this thread as an example, want to see more of our female characters.
     
    But to be honest, I have to give credit to Marjorie Liu because she truly knows how to write a butt-kicking female comic book. Her run on Black Widow's most recent series was amazing and the story was fantastic and she made Natalie one epic female character in that series, and personally I feel that it was because Liu left the series is the reason it was canceled.
     
    But do I believe X-23 deserves her own series? Yes. She deserves it as much as the next female character, and like what has been said before, many other female character have had their chance at their own series and they just didn't do well. But is that the characters fault and does that mean we, the readers do not want to read them? Heck No! If Marvel would actually try to find worthy writers who understand the characters they're writing and are willing to take them in new and exciting directions instead of feeding us these crappy X-Women and Woman of Marvel mini's and one-shots then maybe these characters would have a better chance at being as popular as series like Captain America and Invincible Iron Man (that by the way have had the same writer on both series and are the reasons they are so successful).
     
    In all truth I would love to not only see more series staring X-Women such as Emma Frost, and even Kitty Pryde (or at least a mini-series for goodness sake). As well as bringing back other Marvel super-heroines such as Ms. Marvel, Black Widow, and She-Hulk.

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    jrock85

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    #9  Edited By jrock85

    X-23 is one of the few X-titles that I'm committed to along with Daken and X-Factor. Marjorie Liu has not only made me like X-23, she's been a breath of fresh air for hardcore Gambit fans like me. I think it was brilliant idea to partner her up with Gambit because like her, he was raised to be amoral and without compassion but decided that he didn't want to be that kind of person. It makes a great dynamic between the two of them.

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    Mercy_

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    #10  Edited By Mercy_

    Is she deserving? Yes. Is she the most deserving? I'd say at this time...maybe.

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    Green Skin

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    #11  Edited By Green Skin

    It's not about who's the most deserving, but who would be most successful. Fact is X-23 can bring in more money than people like Storm, Emma or Psylocke.
     
    Sad fact is most X-ladies, hell X-Men in general, just aren't interesting enough to warrant a solo book. 

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    Avenging-X-Bolt

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    #12  Edited By Avenging-X-Bolt

    ive only read a few of her appearences but she seems intersting enough, a bit cliche but cliches are awesome. she does deserve her own series but i do belive their are x-women who deserve it more.
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    Kairan1979

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    #13  Edited By Kairan1979

    The major difference between X-23 and the other X-Girls is that X-23 is a survivor. She can go to the darkest corners of Earth-616, from the Hell's Kitchen to Madripoor, and survive to tell the tale. The question is if she can overcome the training she received in the Facility and become her own person, something much more than X-23. That's what Wolverine wanted when he asked her to go to the Intsitute in New X-Men comic book. It's not his fault that it ended badly - she had to use assassin's skills again and again, to protect herself and the others, then she learned about much bigger threat to all the mutants and joined X-Force to stop it (don't tell me that she joined X-Force just because Cyclops ordered her to). That's the point of her adventures in Hell in the beginning of X-23 mini-series.

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    TheBlueAngel93

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    #14  Edited By TheBlueAngel93

    I think the key difference between X-23 and other X-Women is the same reason why Wolverine can have a solo series but X-Men like Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Angel, ect can't. And that reason is because they aren't bound down by the X-Men, sure yes the X-Men have played a huge part in their lives, but the thing that makes them different and separates them from the rest of the X-Universe is that their origins aren't tied directly to the X-Universe. Characters like Cyclops, Iceman, Angel....you can't have a Cyclops origin without having the X-Men in it, he's forever tied to the team. But characters like Wolverine and X-23, you can tell a Wolverine origin story and don't have to mention the X-Men really at all, which in my mind is what makes Wolverine so able to have all of the solo-series and being able to be on team's like the Avengers and hang out with the likes of Spider-Man and Captain America. And this applies to X-23 as well, she was created in a lab, was turned into a weapon, escaped, wondered around, falling into things such as prostitution, and is now slowly trying to find her way and learn that she can be more than just a weapon, but can actually have a life of her own.

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    fbdarkangel

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    #15  Edited By fbdarkangel

      

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    #16  Edited By Mercy_
    @War Killer said:
    " I think the key difference between X-23 and other X-Women is the same reason why Wolverine can have a solo series but X-Men like Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Angel, ect can't. And that reason is because they aren't bound down by the X-Men, sure yes the X-Men have played a huge part in their lives, but the thing that makes them different and separates them from the rest of the X-Universe is that their origins aren't tied directly to the X-Universe. Characters like Cyclops, Iceman, Angel....you can't have a Cyclops origin without having the X-Men in it, he's forever tied to the team. But characters like Wolverine and X-23, you can tell a Wolverine origin story and don't have to mention the X-Men really at all, which in my mind is what makes Wolverine so able to have all of the solo-series and being able to be on team's like the Avengers and hang out with the likes of Spider-Man and Captain America. And this applies to X-23 as well, she was created in a lab, was turned into a weapon, escaped, wondered around, falling into things such as prostitution, and is now slowly trying to find her way and learn that she can be more than just a weapon, but can actually have a life of her own. "
    Extremely well said. 
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    ambival1

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    #17  Edited By ambival1

     

    I agree with everything what @War killer said. The main reason of X23 having her own miniseries, just like the other characters, is that she has a very good background story and because she’s a stand alone character. Other characters like Cyclops or Storm aren’t because their place is in group. X23 is a loner, just like Wolverine, and she is more interesting when the plot develops only around her and her tragedy. Tragic characters also gain a very big interests, and apart of that, she is a very realistic character (It’s my opinion but, The James Bond series as an example, people these days like true and real characters, sometimes even with their own moral problems, not simple good guys who fights the bad guys).

     

    Her solo series are really good, but in my opinion her only true finished up to perfection even in artistic sphere series are the Innocent Lost and Target X (I would mention also her appearance in NYX series, but it wasn’t a big role). Even Critics praise them. Nothing is forced here, it brings strong emotions, brave approach in undertaking controversial subjects (child abusing-torturing, self injury, prostitution) and on top of that it’s something you can easily forget. Those series and Ongoings brings a very fresh, real, non stereotypical, non-perfect morally and a very deep character. Those characters are very rare, but I think these days tendency is changing to these types.

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    ambival1

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    #18  Edited By ambival1

    soryy for my mistake in " and on top of that it’s something you can easily forget" I mean you can't easily forget.

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    k2

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    #19  Edited By k2

    Does X-23 deserve the title? Yes. Her two intro books by K & Y were just that good. She's a great character, with so much story to be told. She absolutely deserves this title.

    Is it good? The art is phenomenal, most of the time, in my opinion. The writing however...Marjorie Liu is fairly good at keeping characters in-character; however her plots are very bad. Very very bad. Finding her 'inner light'? That almost entirely pointless fiasco with Miss Sinister? Also, she often forgets that Laura has a healing factor (documentated in the X-23: Innocence Lost series as being even faster than Wolverine's, due to X-23's lack of a fully coated adamantium skeleton), and shows her falling prey to injuries. Being treated for shock after the halfway house exploded in issue #1/#2? Falling prey to drugging by Malcolm Colcord? Eeesh. Then there's the fact that (as me and a friend noted), Gambit is almost more of a creeper than a mentor. What is it with Liu consistently writing grossly overaged men coming on to Laura? Hellvarine, Hellclops (Cyclops), then a scene where Miss Sinister shapeshifts to Laura and comes onto Gambit? I don't like these suggestions...I know she's not establishing relationships or anything, but even the scenes in which these happen disturbs me. And not just because I support Hellion as her romantic interest...because I'm not reading to see 30-something year-old men creeping on teenaged girls.

    Annnnd that is what I think ^^

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    deactivated-5c6600594117e

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    @k2

     

    I don't think anything has even been remotely suggested about Gambit "coming on to Laura". I don't understand why you'd say that when there hasn't been any on panel evidence to support it. Also, if anyone has knowledge on what it would take to neutralize someone like Laura, don't you think it'd be one of the masterminds behind the Weapon X project? (Colcord)

    The scenes with the Cyclops dream thing and Hellverine I didn't see so I can't comment on them.

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    ambival1

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    #21  Edited By ambival1

     

    I too didn’t like that scene with shape shifting into Laura and flirting with Gambit. Hellion is the only right guy for her. And about that Hellvarine. Including to realistic plot elements of fantasy is usually something what disturbs me, unless they serve as a metaphor of human psyche. But in Liu’s series I think they really serve in this way (we know that in marvel universe devil exists as it was in New Xmen quest for magik, but have you ever wondered if this hellvarine stuff is only in her mind and (hypothetically) it’s an result of suppressing all the negative emotions in herself and thus damaging her own mind. In the first place I thought it’s impossible, but then I realized that the only character, who noticed her devil mark on her hand (except X23 of course) was miss sinister, who possess telepathic abilities and could see X’s mental problem (if there would be any of course). That hypothetical mental illness (except of her traumas) might be caused by Emma Frost from the times when she wanted to force her(by those illusions like with her undead mother) to leave xmen or show in the eyes of the others, that she’s too unstable and dangerous to be with them. That mental illness could be like a secret, forgotten, ticking bomb, which exploded just in the Ongoing series.

    It’s just a geek theory. I don’t believe in her secret mental illness. It just came to my mind recently and I thought “an interesting idea. Why not?”. It could even explain the Devil’s interest in X23.   

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    fbdarkangel

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    #22  Edited By fbdarkangel
    @ambival1: um I don't think Laura has ever flirted with Gambit! I think she sees him like a brother!
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    ambival1

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    #23  Edited By ambival1

    I'm not talking about laura but miss sinister, pretending to be Laura. In my opinion Laura is the anti-flirting type, there wasn't any situation like that from her side. However, she thinks it doesn't matter for her, but then she ends in a destroyed bathroom with cuts everywhere, saying that she does not understand, why did she do that(New Xmen after seeing Surge kissing Hellion).

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    k2

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    #24  Edited By k2
    @Jake Fury said:
    "


    @k2

     

    I don't think anything has even been remotely suggested about Gambit "coming on to Laura". I don't understand why you'd say that when there hasn't been any on panel evidence to support it. Also, if anyone has knowledge on what it would take to neutralize someone like Laura, don't you think it'd be one of the masterminds behind the Weapon X project? (Colcord)

    The scenes with the Cyclops dream thing and Hellverine I didn't see so I can't comment on them.

    "
    Read my post again. I am talking about the scene where Miss Sinister shapeshifts into Laura and comes onto Gambit. This made me uncomfortable, this is the third time sexual innuendo has taken place between Laura and an older male. It doesn't matter what the situation was...didn't really care to see it. If there is any kind of innuendo, I want to see it as being age-appropriate. Anything else just makes me feel mildly disturbed (in an ewww way), and that's not something I am looking for from my comics.

    Colcord was not directly involved in Laura's creation; Dr. Kinney stated that Laura posseses an even stronger healing factor than Wolverine, due to her lack of an adamantium skeleton. Perhaps Colcord is aware of what can take Laura down...but not much can take down Wolverine. What drugs have been shown to work? Isn't Carbonadium about the only thing that can suppress his healing factor? It is also unrealistic to think he could hit Laura--who has over a decade of martial arts training, and three years of assassination experience, plus enhanced senses and is in peak physical condition--amongst other attributes---with a hypodermic needle, when she is looking right at him.
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    Timandm

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    #25  Edited By Timandm

    How do you determine which character is more "deserving" of their own title?

    Marve, DC, and the others go by who's going to sell the most....  Honestly, I think most of it goes to how well that character is written. 

    After that, how well can 'we' the audience relate to the character.  Wolverine and X-23 both sell VERY well....  Their power levels are NOT through the stratosphere.  They are strong but not invincible.  You don't have to put them against cosmically powered villains for their challenges to be interesting.

    Scenes in which Laura must defeat a villain would be much shorter and less intense if Storm were in her place... For example:

    Laura fighting Daken as opposed to Storm fighting Daken...  If Laura and Daken fight, the fight could last for a VERY long time, it could turn either way, and it could go in many different directions...  However, if Storm fights Daken, well.... Storm zaps him with lightning and voila - The fights over...  Storm shreds his body with a Tornado and voila - the fights over...  Storm sucks all the atmosphere away from Daken, he suffocates and voila - the fights over...

    Regarding Rogue, I think Rogue has just been the victim of poor writing.  She has vast potential to be interesting.  Her powers vary.  She's a blue-collar type of person as opposed to being something akin to a goddess, so most of us can relate more to her...

    Psylocke? - Well first, there have been so many weird twists in her story that she's a bit confusing...  Currently, she's an english noble woman in the body of a japanese ninja... okay...  But a female ninja assassin is NOT a new thing... It was done long ago and we've always liked it... Elektra... but it's not new...and so it's less interesting.

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    MyraMyraMyra

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    #26  Edited By MyraMyraMyra

    I think she definitely deserves her own title - her ongoing has been an interesting, well-written, and nicely self-contained series with great character developement and beautiful art - but I don't know whether she's "most deserving". It's difficult define which character would be more deserving of her own title than the others, since it's not like X-23 having her own ongoing prevents any of the other female X-Men characters from getting their own series.

    Anyways, I think X-23 has enough depth and commercial appeal to carry her own series, and she benefits from being both a young character and a relatively new character, which means that she has lots of untold stories still ahead of her. I also think that she works as a solo character partly because she hasn't been heavily associated with any particular team within the X-Men, even though she's been a member of many different groups. Her personal struggles are interesting and complicated enough to have a whole series built around them. There's stuff she needs to deal with (mostly) on her own, which is basically required from the premise of any good ongoing series of a character who has previously been set up as a member of a larger cast of characters.

    Having established that, I don't think that many X-Men characters - male or female - could star in their own series. Some characters simply work better as a part of an ensemble. I love Jubilee and Kitty Pryde to death, but I don't think that either one of them could pull off their own series because I think they both need the support of other characters. I think Emma Frost is so prominently featured in the main X-titles that she doesn't really need her own ongoing. Rogue could easily carry her own series, but then again X-Men: Legacy focuses so strongly on her that it practically is her ongoing (too bad it sucks). I like Psylocke, but I'm not sure how her solo series would stand out among other comic books focusing on ninja assassins like her.

    Storm, on the other hand, deserves her own series. She's one of the most famous X-Men characters, and right now she's being horribly underused in the main titles (and she's been kidnapped to the ho-hum Black Panther series, which unfortunately doesn't let her do anything particularly interesting, either). If somebody wrote her as well as Liu writes X-23, I think she just might have both the potential (psychological substance, interesting powers & individuality) and the commercial appeal to star in her own ongoing series.

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    jhazzroucher

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    #27  Edited By jhazzroucher

    for me, there are more deserving female characters than X-23. It's just that this is not the right time for them to get their own ongoing series.
     
    Storm - doesn't have a major role  for a while now and hasn't been written interestingly but just shoot lightning. if she gets to become a leader of the x-men again, then she'll become a stronger character. But i still believe x-men worlds apart could have sold more if it was Storm: Worlds Apart.
     
    Rogue - one of the most loved female character of the x-men, but i feel that her solo comics won't sell well today unless she has her superstrength and flight back.
     
    Psylocke - she may sell well because of her inclusion in x-force, Cyclops side and Wolverine's side.
     
    Phoenix - throw in the most powerful villains and  Phoenix has more chances of winning. Phoenix has a lot of fans too. But i think her stories are gonna be greater if it involves other marvel comics.: x-men , avengers, fantastic.

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    fbdarkangel

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    #28  Edited By fbdarkangel

    check out the new do...

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