The writing just gets better and better. Laura sees Julian standing behind a tree, looking sad and watching her.

Laura: "Why is he watching me?"

Jubilee: "Because he's a creep."

...how did this even connect with the last issue? Laura knows how he feels about her--why would she ask why he's watching her? Especially because she has just so much experience in doing this herself.

And--wow--Jubilee's comment. This may be in-character for her to call others a creep, but really...Julian is a creep? Since when? Oh, right, since all of these terrible writers got a hold of him.

Finally, I must touch upon the fact that everyone else just stares at him, like they are hoping he will implode.

This was such an exceedingly odd and out-of-character scene. Liu really should just stop including Julian in her stories...she clearly has no idea how to write about him. The rest of the issue was okay to some extent, but felt forced and kind of illogical (in one panel Laura used the word 'guys'...really?). Of course, the forcedness was to explain Laura deflecting to the AA. Clearly this was a surprise cancel, and issue #20 is just a patch-over.

I also picked up AA #23...and Laura has way too much dialogue all of a sudden. The scene with Dr. Pym was ok to some extent, but she's so wordy with the other students. The writer got the style right, but is making her seem much too comfortable with socializing for the level she had reached in X-23. She's always been monosyllabic, and if she is to have more dialogue, this needs to be achieved gradually. Not--BAM!--Laura goes from the aforementioned monosyllabic to chatterbox. The joy of switching writers...

Can't agree more with you. Liu has turned her swan song into a nose dive with the last two issues. I hate the way she's doing Julian, and some of the things she makes Laura say are just so out of character. Especially the "guys" part. I saw that too and was like really?

As for AA I've been harping about that since it came out. It's an awful issue. I really liked the couple before it, but it took a turn for the worse all of the sudden in issue 23, and not all because of Laura, but certainly she had a lot to do with it. I just don't think the writers really know how to handle her yet. Maybe they'll come into it but for now she's written kind of like um... well what you said. She's way too wordy. And the spiel at the beginning was super cheesy.

@Mayo88m said:

Can't agree more with you. Liu has turned her swan song into a nose dive with the last two issues. I hate the way she's doing Julian, and some of the things she makes Laura say are just so out of character. Especially the "guys" part. I saw that too and was like really?

As for AA I've been harping about that since it came out. It's an awful issue. I really liked the couple before it, but it took a turn for the worse all of the sudden in issue 23, and not all because of Laura, but certainly she had a lot to do with it. I just don't think the writers really know how to handle her yet. Maybe they'll come into it but for now she's written kind of like um... well what you said. She's way too wordy. And the spiel at the beginning was super cheesy.

O_O I don't know what the heck was going on in AA but Laura was so insanely out of character is made the whole issue disjointed because it threw off the flow because she had too much dialogue.

I only have ever read AA 23 so i have nothing to compare it to but it had cool concepts, i could do without julie's rainbow flight and the whole sexuality talk because it seemed rushed and kind of forced or maybe it's because it's so cliche(everything said was like right out of the public service announcements and shows the writer does understand human sexuality outside what he reads or sees on tv)

@EnSabahNurX:

Lmao! Yeah it does seem like a public service announcement. I kind of expected them to pause and lay out some facts about homosexuality ending it with, "The more you know!" lmao Just a horrible issue all together.

@EnSabahNurX@Mayo88m said:

@EnSabahNurX:

Lmao! Yeah it does seem like a public service announcement. I kind of expected them to pause and lay out some facts about homosexuality ending it with, "The more you know!" lmao Just a horrible issue all together.

LOL! Yeah I very much got this impression. The concept was cool but I ended up rushing through that part because it seemed just so forced. To me who is a newcomer to the book, it seems like it has potential--but the writing isn't that phenomenal. Not like NXM was under K & Y, and not like Academy X was under Weir and Defilippis. Sigh. T.T

@k2 said:

@EnSabahNurX@Mayo88m said:

@EnSabahNurX:

Lmao! Yeah it does seem like a public service announcement. I kind of expected them to pause and lay out some facts about homosexuality ending it with, "The more you know!" lmao Just a horrible issue all together.

LOL! Yeah I very much got this impression. The concept was cool but I ended up rushing through that part because it seemed just so forced. To me who is a newcomer to the book, it seems like it has potential--but the writing isn't that phenomenal. Not like NXM was under K & Y, and not like Academy X was under Weir and Defilippis. Sigh. T.T

Avengers Academy is such a lame book. Urgh.

First post on this website and i'm bitching, awesome. So yeah, i love how Hellion has been transformed into the obsessive ex boyfriend character with the recent events in x-23. I mean think about it. Its a very common trait for male hero's and female heroine relationships. The girl turns the guy down and he becomes the obsessive and possibly abusive guy in the background that everybody is like, 'hes a creep' and all that. Honestly I'm completely and utterly disappointed with the writing for both theses characters. Laura is changing.. like from page to page, she truly has 'grown up' so to speak as she never really had a childhood i look at all of her experiences up until now as her childhood and therefor see this as her puberty so to speak. She wants to cut her ties with the x-men and she has done so by severing her lingering possible romance with Julian and taking gambit as her new mentor so to speak. And all of that is fine... for her. I never really expected them to actually get together. Common lets face it how many romances in comics actually work out and even the ones that do end tragically or in a very memorable fashion. The most recent one not involving x and hellion I'd say is colossus and Kittie Pride. She cant be around him because hes the juggernaut and he doesn't want to be around her because now that he has this new power he honestly isn't sure he loves her the same way, i'd say he loves fighting and destruction more than her as that is what the curse does to you as i understand.

Now with that said I absolutely hate where the writers of these new comics have taken Julian as a character. Lets take a second and review. He met and fell in 'love' with Wind Dancer and from there his womanizing charm ( lovable and hateable at the same time ) took him from various possible romance to romance, involving surge (the kinda relationship where they 'hate' each other but not really ) and the cuckoo's to Sofia and Laura. Hell lets face it from what i've read and seen Julian is the kind of guy that a nerd like me wants to punch because hes so good with women, hes dated all 3 of them sisters and they don't seem to care... in fact i think they wouldn't mind having a 4 way marriage with him. Hell I'm surprised they haven't brainwashed him into it yet, considering Emma is their mentor figure. Anyway Julian is a interesting character despite my hating his rather generic background.

Hes a a$$hole hes a douche bag actually, several times I'm like... dude? really stop talking to ppl like that already. I find the scene where he speaks to the homeless mutant at the gates of the school to be the epitaph of his entire existence honestly. But despite these things i still like him. He went from a pompous rich boy with no real troubles to a semi dependable member of the x-men, and then to a troubled young kid when his friends were killed, Sofia left him because she didn't want to be at the academy anymore or around him and the part of her life that he represented. His world was turned upside down and set on fire. He lost his hands and despite all the freaking tech that the x-men have laying around he cant get them back, what a jipp! So who is Hellion now? Well going off of the short part of wolverines talk with him in x-23 and gambits immediate and hostile stance to him i'd say hes not welcome at the school. Logan doesn't want him there, flat out tells him in fact that he doesn't like him at all but somebody thinks hes dangerous or whatever so he has to stay. And the new W and the X-men comic only shows hellion as the young student again trying to have fun.

So i really don't know whats going on with his character i guess. Is he troubled or isn't he? Is he pining for Laura or is he already moving on? Is he not pining for Laura and is just honestly flabbergasted by the turn of events and realizing that he waited to long to come to his realization about Laura? OR is he just like ' Bitches be crazy' Honestly i don't really know where they are going with him or if he will even be developed at all really as a character as he is from the old kids and there are now, new kids to focus on. I hope they continue to develop him as a character and show him not as some moody crybaby whining about Laura but instead a transformed young man who has had a hell of a ride into adulthood and its only just now realizing that he needs to change some things around. But.. with teachers and adults like Logan and Gambit who already hate him, Emma who i think doesn't like hellion as much as she used to ( not sure about that ) i don't know who he really has to turn to besides his former group of friends. Ces and Santo are still around but honestly i see Julian going one of two ways. He stays at the school now that Laura has left and tries to grow up. Or he Leaves the school seeing that he doesn't want to be a kid anymore and utopia is the only place he might feel like hes welcome, and goes there. But who knows, honestly i kind of expect them to just write him off and toss away the keep until they need a tk user for something.

@Rightous_Man said:

First post on this website and i'm bitching, awesome. So yeah, i love how Hellion has been transformed into the obsessive ex boyfriend character with the recent events in x-23. I mean think about it. Its a very common trait for male hero's and female heroine relationships. The girl turns the guy down and he becomes the obsessive and possibly abusive guy in the background that everybody is like, 'hes a creep' and all that. Honestly I'm completely and utterly disappointed with the writing for both theses characters. Laura is changing.. like from page to page, she truly has 'grown up' so to speak as she never really had a childhood i look at all of her experiences up until now as her childhood and therefor see this as her puberty so to speak. She wants to cut her ties with the x-men and she has done so by severing her lingering possible romance with Julian and taking gambit as her new mentor so to speak. And all of that is fine... for her. I never really expected them to actually get together. Common lets face it how many romances in comics actually work out and even the ones that do end tragically or in a very memorable fashion. The most recent one not involving x and hellion I'd say is colossus and Kittie Pride. She cant be around him because hes the juggernaut and he doesn't want to be around her because now that he has this new power he honestly isn't sure he loves her the same way, i'd say he loves fighting and destruction more than her as that is what the curse does to you as i understand.

Now with that said I absolutely hate where the writers of these new comics have taken Julian as a character. Lets take a second and review. He met and fell in 'love' with Wind Dancer and from there his womanizing charm ( lovable and hateable at the same time ) took him from various possible romance to romance, involving surge (the kinda relationship where they 'hate' each other but not really ) and the cuckoo's to Sofia and Laura. Hell lets face it from what i've read and seen Julian is the kind of guy that a nerd like me wants to punch because hes so good with women, hes dated all 3 of them sisters and they don't seem to care... in fact i think they wouldn't mind having a 4 way marriage with him. Hell I'm surprised they haven't brainwashed him into it yet, considering Emma is their mentor figure. Anyway Julian is a interesting character despite my hating his rather generic background.

Hes a a$$hole hes a douche bag actually, several times I'm like... dude? really stop talking to ppl like that already. I find the scene where he speaks to the homeless mutant at the gates of the school to be the epitaph of his entire existence honestly. But despite these things i still like him. He went from a pompous rich boy with no real troubles to a semi dependable member of the x-men, and then to a troubled young kid when his friends were killed, Sofia left him because she didn't want to be at the academy anymore or around him and the part of her life that he represented. His world was turned upside down and set on fire. He lost his hands and despite all the freaking tech that the x-men have laying around he cant get them back, what a jipp! So who is Hellion now? Well going off of the short part of wolverines talk with him in x-23 and gambits immediate and hostile stance to him i'd say hes not welcome at the school. Logan doesn't want him there, flat out tells him in fact that he doesn't like him at all but somebody thinks hes dangerous or whatever so he has to stay. And the new W and the X-men comic only shows hellion as the young student again trying to have fun.

So i really don't know whats going on with his character i guess. Is he troubled or isn't he? Is he pining for Laura or is he already moving on? Is he not pining for Laura and is just honestly flabbergasted by the turn of events and realizing that he waited to long to come to his realization about Laura? OR is he just like ' Bitches be crazy' Honestly i don't really know where they are going with him or if he will even be developed at all really as a character as he is from the old kids and there are now, new kids to focus on. I hope they continue to develop him as a character and show him not as some moody crybaby whining about Laura but instead a transformed young man who has had a hell of a ride into adulthood and its only just now realizing that he needs to change some things around. But.. with teachers and adults like Logan and Gambit who already hate him, Emma who i think doesn't like hellion as much as she used to ( not sure about that ) i don't know who he really has to turn to besides his former group of friends. Ces and Santo are still around but honestly i see Julian going one of two ways. He stays at the school now that Laura has left and tries to grow up. Or he Leaves the school seeing that he doesn't want to be a kid anymore and utopia is the only place he might feel like hes welcome, and goes there. But who knows, honestly i kind of expect them to just write him off and toss away the keep until they need a tk user for something.

I don't think any of the current writers like Hellion at all. This is probably because no one has bothered to read New Mutants, or Academy X, or perhaps even NXM, and certainly not his mini series (the Hellions AX one). The most the writers know--from the way they write him--is he used to be a rich boy but he's not anymore, that he's missing his hands, and that he's the school bully. It must be some kind of info sheet everyone gets when they take on Hellion as a part of their cast.

I wish he was on a tour-the-world thing like Elixir is, till someone shows up with enough talent and research skills to handle him properly :-(

I have no idea why Marvel has been trolling Hellion as of late. Why him?

I like Julian. He's just so real. I mean, come on, most of us aren't very nice to those who doesn't like us either. "Mean" if you will, but he was totally protective and sweet to his friends. Everything about him I loved during NXM. Julian never bullied anyone who couldn't fight back. I think it was for amusement purposes, something everyone one secretly enjoys. But hey, we were sixteen once right? That's the thing I love most about it, it so real and most are able to relate. When they moved to San Fran, he carried his weight like everyone else. If I lost my hands, I'd be angsty too, wouldn't you? And he was totally sweet to Laura in the Killing Dream, even calling her his best friend, visiting her at the med bay and . When she left, he went downhill from there. I guess. When they met again, Julian was looking for someone to understand him, he did kill someone more or less. And in AA, where Mettle was seeking advice from someone who also killed somebody... I just don't get the bias in all this. Why be address the concern of someone new over a guy who save your pretty butt more than 3 times? The writing makes me cringe.

@Rightous_Man:

Ha, for your first post it was a great one. Welcome to the boards. Like K2 said I just don't think anyone knows what to do with Hellion. He's just lost in the shuffle, and that's a shame because he's capable of a lot of great things. I really duh him in the New X-Men series especially even if he was kind of a jerk, but that's also where a lot of his changes took place. As for what Liu did with him... I thought it was kind of out of left field. Well, not kind of, IT WAS OUT OF LEFT FIELD. You did bring up a good point though. I can kind of see how she would have done it to distance herself from the X-Men, but then again she still talks to Jubilee, and Gambit so I'm not sure that's really it. I still think it's mostly because she's going to a new non-X-Men related book. Well not heavily influenced by them at least. Oh, and you can't take WatXM seriously. I think it's a fun book, but it's more comedy than anything. lol

I'm so sad that Laura has been moved to Avengers Academy. She's one of my favourite X-characters, but I really couldn't care less about AA and I'm not picking that title up just because she's now in it. I wish they'd rather moved her to some other X-Men title instead, like the adjectiveless one with Storm, Psylocke, Domino, Warpath, and Jubilee.

As for Julian, I think that being a bit of a douche is a part of what makes him interesting, but I do agree that the negative aspects of his personality have been over-empathized lately. He's become a victim of ill-advised character developement. I think it's only realistic for a teenage boy like him to have moments of angry waaangst, and to act like a tactless idiot every now and then, but I'd rather see him deal with his anger and jerk-ish behaviour and grow as a character rather than devolve into a one-note bully character. He's been around long enough to be more than just the resident jerk, which he has seemed to have become recently.

The problem with Helion is that he isn't a regular character in any book, so know writer is really giving him a voice. he is just a walking plot device. In NXM, he might have been a douche, and I might not have been his biggest fan, but he had his moments, and was fully fleshed out. You knew where he stood. Now, he's pretty much just used to push the story forward, at the expense of his character. None of the writers really try to give him a voice, and that's unfortunate, since they diced to constantly put him through the ringer, yet do nothing with his character afterwards. And that has become really annoying.

While I'm glad X-23 and Julian aren't dating, and even found that Jubilee creep line amusing, it's unfortunate that Julian's character has to be assassinated. I really miss the NXM series, and the characters that are pretty much in limbo that were the stars of that series.

@MyraMyraMyra: I'd really enjoy if X-23 was in adjectiveless X-men. Heck, she's already familiar with and worked with all of those characters, so why not? She was featured on Uncanny with Storm and Psylocke, and Storm even was featured prominently in Laura's solo series at the beginning. She was on X-Force with Dom and Jimmy, and Jubilee is practically her new BFF, so why not?

I honestly do not care for the character for Julian, though i can understand the disappointment in Helix fans. Though I do think you guys are REALLY nitpicking. For example: your really complaining that she simply says "guys" in one panel? It seems that some of you are just letting your hate for issue 19 cloud your ability to enjoy this issue. But then again some of you may have legit reasons for why you did not enjoy it. But i really enjoyed this issue. I love Laura's relationship with Jubilee.

I think one of the reasons Julian is a great character is the fact that he can pull reactions out of people. Both positive and negative.

@x_29 said:

I honestly do not care for the character for Julian, though i can understand the disappointment in Helix fans. Though I do think you guys are REALLY nitpicking. For example: your really complaining that she simply says "guys" in one panel? It seems that some of you are just letting your hate for issue 19 cloud your ability to enjoy this issue. But then again some of you may have legit reasons for why you did not enjoy it. But i really enjoyed this issue. I love Laura's relationship with Jubilee.

My reason is that the scene was just written badly. Laura basically said "I do not want you" in-spite of all the established history they had. It felt extremely cold. Yes Laura isn't the most social articulate person but still. I think more than anything fans that are displeased with the outcome (which i think is the majority) feel that it was a disrespect to a) Hellion as a character and b) the established history that Craig Kyle and Chris Yost (Laura's creators) established.

Also having Laura ask "why is he watching me" is really dumb. Hell she did the exact same thing to him during NXM and X-Force for the exact same reasons he watched her in X-23 #20. As much as I like Liu as a writer, her work on Daken was excellent as well as the majority of her run on X-23, she has a tendency to ignore the comics history and write her own little personnel fanfic world of X-23, Gambit and Jubilee.

@Gawdzilla:To me that scene came out as " I really do not know what to say to you, I do not want to hurt your feelings." That is what i got from that scene, I never saw Laura acting cold, but rather really unable to know what to say when breaking up with someone ( like most girls her age would.) That said, fans of Helix/x-23 relationships disappointment of the outcome, is understandable.

@rokusan23: Well seeing as how she is now in the Avengers academy, wouldn't you want her to have some developed friendships or concern over at least one of her teammates?

@x_29 said:

I honestly do not care for the character for Julian, though i can understand the disappointment in Helix fans. Though I do think you guys are REALLY nitpicking. For example: your really complaining that she simply says "guys" in one panel? It seems that some of you are just letting your hate for issue 19 cloud your ability to enjoy this issue. But then again some of you may have legit reasons for why you did not enjoy it. But i really enjoyed this issue. I love Laura's relationship with Jubilee.

No. My dislike of issue 19 has nothing to do with my concerns with issue 20. I am an admitted fan of the pairing, but have I ever not given legitimate reasons for disagreeing with something? I don't think so, I look at the scenes objectively and have criticized only things that seem unrealistic to the situation, technical flaws, or tendencies to ignore established character history. As I mentioned earlier, slipping up while writing character dialogue is unacceptable and not just a 'nitpicking concern'. Never for one moment should the writer forget the character's mannerisms, or way of speaking. Just like Rogue fans would be concerned over her suddenly losing her southern accent, I am displeased when Laura suddenly begins using words that do not fit her character--and when she becomes a chatterbox out of the blue. It's fine to develop her saying more, as she begins to be more sociable...but Liu went from one to two word responses to dialogue bubbles crammed full. That's a jump and doesn't fit the character.

Laura's relationship with Jubilee was alright, but I really wanted to see more of the Mercury and Laura friendship. I was disappointed that Liu never continued this. It seemed like Cessily and Laura were pretty good friends in NXM, and Mercury had something in common with her: the facility. It would have made for some really cool story lines to see them both get taken again and maybe work their way out together. It even would have been cool to have Jubilee AND Mercury as Laura's friends.

@x_29 said:

@Gawdzilla:To me that scene came out as " I really do not know what to say to you, I do not want to hurt your feelings." That is what i got from that scene, I never saw Laura acting cold, but rather really unable to know what to say when breaking up with someone ( like most girls her age would.) That said, fans of Helix/x-23 relationships disappointment of the outcome, is understandable.

That ignores the context of Gawdzilla's post. They are concerned about Liu simply ignoring established character history. As I have said in other posts...if the pair had to be broken up, there should have been a better reason given. Ignoring history is lazy or hurried writing. At least put it down to something believable, i.e. safety...Laura going to a different school...or SHOW her beginning to lose her feelings for Hellion. This decision happened off-panel. In Issue 18 Laura seemed to still be into him, they almost kissed and it appeared mutual. Suddenly in 19 she changes her mind. What happened in-between? If Liu wanted to convince the reader this was a done deal caused by change over time apart, then Laura should have been fighting him off consistently in all of the issues. Even that still wouldn't have explained away the established history. In another post to you I explained what that history entails...which is a fair amount, and I doubt that--even given Laura's past--she would have done any of that without deeper feelings toward Julian. Maybe even especially because of her past. Laura has trouble connecting emotionally; any connection she DOES make tends to be very deep and solid, and not superfluous. Her mother, Logan, Mercury and Jubilee are examples. Why would her romantic connections be any different? Given all of these concerns, as a reader (and aside from Helix fanship), I am not satisfied with the explanations Liu gave. I would need to see the dynamics I touched on being handled before I could agree that it was solid writing and that it made sense.

@ K2@k2: The dialog she gave her was not that crammed full and she did not come of as a chatter box to me. Plus i do not think making the character say a little more ( unless its like in some of the panels in Avengers Academy) is really out of character.

I agree with K2 X_29. The situation is like going from A to C and completely skipping B. We as readers feel cheated by a extremely poor- written cop-out. In the first arc of the series she made a deal with a demon to save his life and while she has some adventures she then meets him again and after a crazy outer-space adventure she kicked him to the curb. We all X-23 grow during the arcs between "The Killing Dream" and "Misadventures" but never once did she interact with a boy her age save for Alex Cimi and she talked to him for like 6 seconds. It feels like lazy writing on Liu's part and Liu is way better than this. Hell she writes romance novels for a living.

I will concede that her conversation with Gambit was better cause she at least explained that her feelings for Julian changed. But I wanna know how you go from being extremely protective a boy in which you run away when another girl kisses him, say "you were dead that moment you touched Julian Keller", and all the other moments in NXM and X-Force that showed that she had strong feelings for him to this moment.

@k2

@rokusan23

You guys are worse than the stupid twilight fans

@Gawdzilla Well if thats how you feel then i cannot argue with your opinion. Idk maybe their relationship will be written back. Either way i do not care. I have understood why people dug their relationship, but to me it was like "meh."

@snyderman567 said:

@k2

@rokusan23

You guys are worse than the stupid twilight fans

This board is not a place for insults or slander. If you are going to comment about the posters and not the topic, then please do not participate. If you continue you behavior, it is very likely a moderator will help you to not participate.

Blech. I was going to start picking up Avengers Academy simply because of Laura. Read issues 21-22 and just did not really care for it at all. Read issue 23 and nearly threw the book across the room.

@The Dark Huntress:What happened in issue 23?

@JoseDRiveraTCR7: I just felt she was grossly out of character.

@The Dark Huntress: Marvel's dropping the ball with Laura. They wanted to propel her into Mainstream Marvel due to the fact that she's got ties with Wolverine, but they went about doing it all wrong. I still haven't read ish 23, but I can imagine...

@ReVamp said:

@The Dark Huntress: Marvel's dropping the ball with Laura. They wanted to propel her into Mainstream Marvel due to the fact that she's got ties with Wolverine, but they went about doing it all wrong. I still haven't read ish 23, but I can imagine...

This is why I'm looking forward to picking up The Circle of Four arc in Venom. It's written by Remender and although it contains a character IDGAF about (She Ghost Rider) and a character I actively dislike (Red Hulk), I'm going to pick it up and enjoy it because it's Rick Fcking Remender and I have absolute faith in him.

Maybe she just like girls. Just as Daken like boy. hahahahah~~~

A. What? No. It's never been established that she has any sexual interest in the female sex.

B. Daken is pansexual.

Hey~~ My previous reply how gone???

@The Dark Huntress: Jubilee and her look is very ambiguous.~~~~

@Money_is_God said:

@The Dark Huntress: Jubilee and her look is very ambiguous.~~~~

Jubilee is another character who has never shown any sexual interest in women.

@snyderman567: I'd resent that if it wasn't so true :P Heh.

@k2: Thanks Mom

@snyderman567 said:

@k2

@rokusan23

You guys are worse than the stupid twilight fans

This board is not a place for insults or slander. If you are going to comment about the posters and not the topic, then please do not participate. If you continue you behavior, it is very likely a moderator will help you to not participate.

@snyderman567: You now have a second warning for trolling. I suggest you stop.