Wonderwoman pilot 2011! Please read :)

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#1 Posted by TAneT62 (1060 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, so I know i've said the WW pilot in 2011 was a disgrace, was just a disaster and was pure sh!t, but I was wrong. I only watched bits and pieces of the pilot and my thoughts of all the changes contributed to the bad things i've been saying about the pilot, I just didn't take the time to purely watch it.

I watched it again and instantly fell inlove with it, the changes didn't bother me at all, I loved the concept of the "business" theme, there were huge amounts of questioned needed to be answered in the pilot, and I know, and I bet yous all do to, that if they went along with the show we would have been more understanding towards it. I loved Adrian Pallicki as WW, was just the costume and some of the acting that irritated me, they should have made the costume more material looking instead of a "plastic" look to it, the acting needed more effort, and the pilot, if fully finished, would have been amazing. When I finished watching the pilot I just instantly wanted the next episode! I loved it so much! Alot of WW fans may not like it, but please! Watch it again and I can tell you this, you will love it.

The WW character in the pilot has some of the qualities WW has in the comics, though I do wish they stuck with the "Warrior" theme, the island instead of a business and yea ... I've also been wondering where WW came from in the pilot, it doesn't mentioned once where she comes from in the pilot, but i loved the pilot so much, WW fans, just take the time to watch it again, you wont be as disapointed, i swear.

#2 Posted by TAneT62 (1060 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by RyuHayabusa (2019 posts) - - Show Bio

It wasn't Wonder Woman.

#4 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

@RyuHayabusa said:

It wasn't Wonder Woman.

Its like the third vidx link down

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#5 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I totally agree. It needed work but it was entertaining. It was supposed to be a 2 hour TV movie but I guess they decided to do one episode and I think thats why people do not like it. "The Story was not finished" we did not get to see the aftermath which would have been in the next episode.

I also prefer more warrior Theme and island but the TV show did not totally close the door to that possibility. Anyway all that could be covered in a movie. I wanted this show picked up

#6 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

No offense but this is straight garbage. The action scenes look like they are purposely flush with exaggerated cheesiness. I'm glad this never saw the light of day, it would have ruined any and all chances of a life action WW movie being made.

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#7 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler said:

No offense but this is straight garbage. The action scenes look like they are purposely flush with exaggerated cheesiness. I'm glad this never saw the light of day, it would have ruined any and all chances of a life action WW movie being made.

You saw it or just the clips

#8 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW: Sitting through it as we speak. Not ripping individuals who have a difference of opinion but seriously, this is awful. I dont mind the subtle changes and backdrop, its the acting, the movements, the shading/lighting, and worst of all the action sequences. They seriously look worse then the SyFy channel action scenes. Its not often I agree with critics but you can book this one. Disappointing.

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#9 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler said:

@WDW: Sitting through it as we speak. Not ripping individuals who have a difference of opinion but seriously, this is awful. I dont mind the subtle changes and backdrop, its the acting, the movements, the shading/lighting, and worst of all the action sequences. They seriously look worse then the SyFy channel action scenes. Its not often I agree with critics but you can book this one. Disappointing.

ah ok but to be fair. the action scene is clearly not finished. The footage is almost raw. Color Balance, Shading/lighting, movements, Camara angles would be edited a lot. Unaired Pilots always look stiff in the beginning its like a rehersal and this does not even qualify as an unaired pilot. It was a proof of concept shown to like 20 people inhouse not an official finished unaired pilot

When I judge the show I am going under the assumption that the lighting/editing, movements, camera angles ETC would obviously be cleaned up. Even the minor Actors could be changed like Willis and his familly at the stage the pilot is in.

Also when I judge this show I am looking strictly at the theme and plot of the show. And I am especially looking at the character of Wonder Woman and wether she fits the role and her actions fit the character of Wonder Woman and I find that they do.

All the critics are judging this based on the standards of a finished TV pilot episode which is completely unfair.If this was the finished pilot then I would certianly complain about it. But as a work in progress It did not need to be scrapped. As TV take on Wonder Woman it did not need to be scapped. It just needed to be finished and presented properly.

I do understand where you are coming from if you still don't like it. The people at NBC who leaked the script and the raw Pilot where betting that this sort of backlash would happen to get out from under the Wonder Woman licence fee.

#10 Posted by Lvenger (19121 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: I've tried all the links and they don't seem to work. Not that given your view on the pilot that I'm sure I want to see it now. But which link did you click?

#11 Posted by RyuHayabusa (2019 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: 5th one down, Wait 2secs and then the free bar appear in the left column. The link posted below this current post is legit as well.

@WDW: Ah, that actually makes a big differnce. I wasn't even paying attention to the fact that it wasnt close to a final product. Even so, I find it near unbearable to watch. I just cant get past the movements, especially the running. But you make excellent points. Props.

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#13 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@RyuHayabusa said:

@Lvenger: Just watch this review.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/nash/specials/33934-wonder-woman-2011

LOL these guys have like ZERO clue of who Wonder Woman is. And they can not even follow the plot of the story.

"so wonder woman just went on national TV to annonce to the world that she broke the law to stop a crime she cant prove was commited"

UMM YES!

That is a great example of what I expect Wonder Woman to do in that situation! But these guys just dont get it at all. Why are they judging this show like an episode of Law and Order?

#14 Posted by RyuHayabusa (2019 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW: Trolling again?

Wonder Woman goes around killing security guards for fun, is that what you think Wonder Woman is? She could have easily disarmed that security but she killed him just because she was pissed off.

#15 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: BTW why did you make Aquaman Platinum blonde?

#16 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@Gambler: BTW why did you make Aquaman Platinum blonde?

Its not, its white lol

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#17 Posted by Lvenger (19121 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: Ah cool thanks. I'll watch this then post my thoughts on it.

#18 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, I enjoyed that considering it being horribly un-edited. The lead actresses (her name escapes me) was surprisingly good as Diana and I thought the theme fit well, mind you I know very little of Diana's origin besides a few re-tellings and the animated film.

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#19 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: White/Platinum Blond, they're really similar.

#20 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare:Yeah, its for the rpg section either way.

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#21 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: Theres an RPG section? Okay. Shall check it.

#22 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@RyuHayabusa said:

@WDW: Trolling again?

Wonder Woman goes around killing security guards for fun, is that what you think Wonder Woman is? She could have easily disarmed that security but she killed him just because she was pissed off.

Yes I am trolling the Wonder Woman reviewer.

YUP she killed the guards for fun Its not like she gave them a chance to surrender or anything. Its not like they where expecting her. She only accidently stumbled on Veronica Cales torcher victims after the fact after all she had no proof . I am actually suprised she did not decide to kill them to. Poor Security guard. I guess he was hoping Veronica Cale would make him a super soldier too but all Veronica gave him was a gun.

I am curious did you watch it or are you just going based off the review?

These reviewers completely missed the obvious point of the character and the plot. They have ZERO Idea about the Wonder Woman character.

#23 Posted by Ludo (57 posts) - - Show Bio

The only good thing of Wonder Woman pilot was Adrianne Palicki. It was one of the worst thing i've ever seen.

#24 Posted by RyuHayabusa (2019 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW said:

@RyuHayabusa said:

@WDW: Trolling again?

Wonder Woman goes around killing security guards for fun, is that what you think Wonder Woman is? She could have easily disarmed that security but she killed him just because she was pissed off.

Yes I am trolling the Wonder Woman reviewer.

YUP she killed the guards for fun Its not like she gave them a chance to surrender or anything. Its not like they where expecting her. She only accidently stumbled on Veronica Cales torcher victims after the fact after all she had no proof . I am actually suprised she did not decide to kill them to. Poor Security guard. I guess he was hoping Veronica Cale would make him a super soldier too but all Veronica gave him was a gun.

I am curious did you watch it or are you just going based off the review?

How about you answer my question first? I did watch it.

WW killed that security guard just because she was pissed off. You break in somewhere and you expect security guard to salute you?

Again she could have disarmed him but she decided to kill him.

#25 Posted by Hunter114 (829 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW said:

LOL these guys have like ZERO clue of who Wonder Woman is. And they can not even follow the plot of the story.

"so wonder woman just went on national TV to annonce to the world that she broke the law to stop a crime she cant prove was commited"

UMM YES!

That is a great example of what I expect Wonder Woman to do in that situation! But these guys just dont get it at all. Why are they judging this show like an episode of Law and Order?

To be fair, Linkara (the one in the hat) is the resident comicbook reviewer and he is pretty knowledgeable about a lot of characters, including Wonder Woman... he's even reviewed Wonder Woman comics... I invite you to take a look.

As for what they said... well yeah, it's pretty dumb for someone to admit that they've just committed a crime... and she should have been arrested, because the law still exists and if you break the law, there are consequences. Wonder Woman murdered several men and can't defend that to the courts... they've focused too much on her being a killer and not a warrior or a diplomat, which is even worse, considering they didn't include her Amazonian heritage and had her be a "business woman" of some sort.

And sure, in the comics, Wonder Woman did kill Max Lord... but then she was actually convicted by a court and a warrant for her arrest was issued... she also resigned as Wonder Woman, so maybe she would have gone in to that compound, but she wouldn't have admitted to it on national television... she would have allowed the police and that detective / agent to cover it up, to protect her... just as she did for Superman.

#26 Posted by Lvenger (19121 posts) - - Show Bio

Well thankfully that show never saw the light of day. The idea of Themyscira Industries is absurd. They turned WW into a female Oliver Queen or Bruce Wayne and not respecting the source material is a major flaw in any pilot. Secondly, although there were hints to it, Diana's Amazonian heritage is never brought to the forefront which it should be in the pilot episode. Thirdly the action sequences looked cheesy. Furthermore, her costume was ridiculous. Every part of it did not fit an Amazonian warrior princess. Then again there's no indication of the Amazonian warrior princess at all. And finally whilst Wonder Woman is more flexible at killing, she shouldn't be killing a security guard just because he's shooting at her. He wasn't even enhanced by that drug anyway. All in all it's a very good thing this pilot was scrapped.

#27 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@RyuHayabusa said:

How about you answer my question first? I did watch it.

WW killed that security guard just because she was pissed off. You break in somewhere and you expect security guard to salute you?

Again she could have disarmed him but she decided to kill him.

Ok I believe I have already answer this before in other posts but I will answer it again. In terms of the story. Veronica Cale knew Wonder Woman was coming all her super soldiers knew she was coming. The security guard knew she was coming. Everyone knew Wonder Woman was coming.

Everyone knew what she could do and still the plan they came up with was to kill her. Wonder Woman arrives and gives them a chance to give up and they don't. She fights them blah blah blah

OK security guard. remember he knows everything about Wonder Woman and he knows she is coming and he decided to open fire anyway. He kills one of his own men in the process.

How about you answer my question first? I did watch it.

Now for the most important part...YES Wonder Woman probably could have disarmed him. and NO she did not have to kill him. NOW its at this point. given the status of the pilot that the director can still make the decision to remove that scene which would almost definatly happen since this is a TV show and has to maintain a certian rating. Also it is only a WORK in PROGRESS pilot. It is not FINISHED or EDITED! The original script had cursing as to most original first draft TV scripts.

NOW The people reviewing it are reviewing it on a finished basis. They are assuming that the pilot is the final cut and its NOT the final cut. They comment on her changing Costumes ETC that is because the PILOT was UNFINISHED. they are trying to determine which costume to go with. The reviewers don't understand that concept. Also the reviews clearly do not know Wonder Woman as a comicbook character. You cant tell me any of them actually read her comics because they seem to have to clue.

Now it seems like your only problem with the unfinished unaired pilot is that Wonder Woman killed the security guard. Don't you think its a little drastic to scrap the whole show when the scene can simply be edited?

Ok I have a brother in law who is an actor and I have read scripts and seen raw pilots so I guess I understand this a little better than most.

Anyway

So this is what I thought of the Pilot knowing is still a Work in Process

  • I liked/loved Adrianna Paliki as Wonder Woman and as Diana she looked the part in both situations. I have seen her act in other shows and know she is good.
  • I liked the Plot of the story and thought Wonder Woman acted like Wonder Woman would given the situation
  • overall I liked the actors they where a little unconfortable in there roles but that is NORMAL for a show that is not even picked up yet. The actors are not yet putting there all into the roles. Had it been picked up and contracts signed I am sure they would begun to accept there roles more.
  • I did not like Willis and his family.
  • I did not like any dialog Wonder Woman had with willis or her mother. They could have done a bit better there or recast the scene
  • I loved all the dialog between Diana Etta and Henry.
  • I liked ed indelicado's character and his relationship with Diana
  • I liked the board room scene which was actually talking directly to Wonder Woman fans as far as her not being perfect ETC
  • I Loved the fight scene at the end. I dont understand how people did not. Adrianne looked like she could fight and beat up people
  • I did not like when Wonder Woman killed the guard it was too strong for an intro show. I would edit that scene to make the pipe hit the gun out of his hands which is easy to do. Had they left it in, the following episode would have to come up with a REALLY good reason why she did it.
  • I liked the fact that she is a CEO of her company. It makes sense for this character and it would make sense in a Wonder Woman comic
  • I did not like the costume but the show explains why she uses it so it makes sense. However I would eventually want the costume updated to look a little less cheesy

Overall I liked the show and with a little tweaking could have been a hit. Most of the issues the reviewers had was that she was BREAKING THE LAW. That is a central part of Wonder Womans character. She breaks the law when necessary and does not hide from her actions and these clueless reviewers are making fun of that. They have no idea about the character.

#28 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hunter114 said:

To be fair, Linkara (the one in the hat) is the resident comicbook reviewer and he is pretty knowledgeable about a lot of characters, including Wonder Woman... he's even reviewed Wonder Woman comics... I invite you to take a look.

As for what they said... well yeah, it's pretty dumb for someone to admit that they've just committed a crime... and she should have been arrested, because the law still exists and if you break the law, there are consequences. Wonder Woman murdered several men and can't defend that to the courts... they've focused too much on her being a killer and not a warrior or a diplomat, which is even worse, considering they didn't include her Amazonian heritage and had her be a "business woman" of some sort.

And sure, in the comics, Wonder Woman did kill Max Lord... but then she was actually convicted by a court and a warrant for her arrest was issued... she also resigned as Wonder Woman, so maybe she would have gone in to that compound, but she wouldn't have admitted to it on national television... she would have allowed the police and that detective / agent to cover it up, to protect her... just as she did for Superman.

Well anyway you are intitled to your opinion. The best thing to do is simply watch it if you can and not listen to the commentary review because they are not reviewing something worth of review as an unfinished episode. Also I figured I would post a scan of Wonder Woman "murdering more innocent people" She is not known for keeping a cool head when she is angry.

#29 Edited by RyuHayabusa (2019 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW said:

Now for the most important part...YES Wonder Woman probably could have disarmed him. and NO she did not have to kill him. NOW its at this point. given the status of the pilot that the director can still make the decision to remove that scene which would almost definatly happen since this is a TV show and has to maintain a certian rating. Also it is only a WORK in PROGRESS pilot. It is not FINISHED or EDITED! The original script had cursing as to most original first draft TV scripts.

If it was finished then there is no possible way to know that they were going to cut that part where she killed security guard.=That show would have ruined her reputation further.

NOW The people reviewing it are reviewing it on a finished basis. They are assuming that the pilot is the final cut and its NOT the final cut. They comment on her changing Costumes ETC that is because the PILOT was UNFINISHED. they are trying to determine which costume to go with. The reviewers don't understand that concept. Also the reviews clearly do not know Wonder Woman as a comicbook character. You cant tell me any of them actually read her comics because they seem to have to clue.

I think you are the only one who doesn't read WW comics.

Overall I liked the show and with a little tweaking could have been a hit. Most of the issues the reviewers had was that she was BREAKING THE LAW. That is a central part of Wonder Womans character. She breaks the law when necessary and does not hide from her actions and these clueless reviewers are making fun of that. They have no idea about the character.

Wonder Woman doesn't go around killing security guards. You are the only one who has no clue and you don't sh*t about Wonder Woman.

#30 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@RyuHayabusa said:

If it was finished then there is no possible way to know that they were going to cut that part where she killed security guard. It would have ruined her reputation further.

I dont even understand what you are saying here.

I think you are the only one who doesn't read WW comics.

Well thinking is not a crime

Wonder Woman doesn't go around killing security guards. You are the only one who has no clue and you don't sh*t about Wonder Woman.

Wow in one ear and out the other. To bad I thought I was making a break through. oh here I will post this picture of pissed off Wonder Woman doing everything in her power to NOT to kill any innocent security guards. However the rest of the town should watch out

#31 Posted by Hunter114 (829 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW said:

Well anyway you are intitled to your opinion. The best thing to do is simply watch it if you can and not listen to the commentary review because they are not reviewing something worth of review as an unfinished episode. Also I figured I would post a scan of Wonder Woman "murdering more innocent people" She is not known for keeping a cool head when she is angry.

I've actually watched both the pilot and the review separately, and it was worthy of a review, it was finished, it just wasn't picked up or aired on television, calling it unfinished doesn't justify what they did with it... it could have and should have been written better, that was shown in the fact that it wasn't picked up or aired on television.

There is also a very big difference between defending yourself from an attacking crowed and being an aggressor, who actively walks into someones' private property... Wonder Woman was trespassing and those guards actually had the right to try and subdue her and she should have been arrested for murder, because that's what she did... she murdered them, with no justification.

#32 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hunter114 said:

I've actually watched both the pilot and the review separately, and it was worthy of a review, it was finished, it just wasn't picked up or aired on television, calling it unfinished doesn't justify what they did with it... it could have and should have been written better, that was shown in the fact that it wasn't picked up or aired on television.

Ok. So you call visible wires during the fighting scenes? messages on screen which says ÄDD POLICE CARS" "Darken Pants" Her going into an elevator with dark pants and coming out with light blue pants. Visible impact barriers for crashing cars ETC ETC a finished pilot? The video was not even color corrected. Why do I get the feeling you did not actually watch it.

There is also a very big difference between defending yourself from an attacking crowed and being an aggressor, who actively walks into someones' private property... Wonder Woman was trespassing and those guards actually had the right to try and subdue her and she should have been arrested for murder, because that's what she did... she murdered them, with no justification.

Humm yes And I tend to agree with you. Some of the news casters and commentators in the show actually agree with you also. You know what? that was the point of the show. Kelley, the writer wants you to be conflicted about Wonder Woman that is the point he is trying to make. You are not supposed to fall inlove with the character YET her actions form the plot of the show. So you pointing out that she broke the law is basically the point of the show. In the next episode she deals with it. My only argument is that the character of wonder woman in comics would break the law if it was for the creater good and she would not hide from her actions. Kelley the writer is using that as the theme of this particular 40 min unfinished pilot which was supposed to be a 2 hour TVmovie. In original Kelley script Wonder Woman is actually taken to court and had to answer for her actions.

In comic image I posted. She was not defending herself from an attacking crowed she chased them and killed some. she did not just leave

So you prefer that the hostages DIE rather than Wonder Woman breaking in? Do you know why Wonder Woman decided to break-in in the first place What set her off? do you know?

#33 Posted by Lvenger (19121 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW: You're entitled to your opinion and are putting up a good defense of this show. But the fact is the costume looked like it was made out of cheap materials instead of being Amazonian armour, the whole idea of 'Themyscira Industries' is absurd as it turns the whole idea of the Wonder Woman mythology into a corporate company. Diana is not supposed to have problems leading into a dual life, she should no idea what man's world is like yet she's pretty acclimatized whenever the pilot is set. To me, that wasn't a good place to start or a good direction to take the pilot in. Wonder Woman starts out a lot like Thor, unaccustomed to this strange new world yet defending it from various threats, mythological amongst others. We don't really get that, just some super soldier project which IMO really isn't what Wonder Woman should be fighting. Finally Wonder Woman killed that man in cold blood. She only kills when she has to. Besides she has indestructable bracelets and a golden lasso which she could have used to stop the guy. Diana's not a cold blooded killer yet the borderline vigilante approach was what I got from the pilot.

Obviously I won't criticise the effects, bad as they were as changes still needed to be made to the pilot. But in terms of the premise of the show, I'm very glad this never got shown as it doesn't do Wonder Woman justice at all.

#34 Posted by Hunter114 (829 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW:

Everything that needed to be finished was finished... inserts and drafts don't matter when it comes to the *actual* plot of a story... my complaints are all about what we actually see in the pilot, because that's what the network saw and that's why they didn't pick it up... movies are reviewed and rated depending on what's in the movie... not the deleted scenes.

@WDW said:

My only argument is that the character of wonder woman in comics would break the law if it was for the creater good and she would not hide from her actions.

You mean like the time she killed Max Lord? Sure she didn't hide what she did... but she did retire and then worked with the DHS agents who were trying to arrest her as Diana Prince... I would call that hiding away from her actions... considering Wonder Woman was actually a fugitive and "in hiding" at the time.

In comic image I posted. She was not defending herself from an attacking crowed she chased them and killed some. she did not just leave

um... well the images clearly show Wonder Woman being attacked and her fighting them off, then she yells at them to run away "but suddenly the street is full of them... waiting with deadly smiles", so she goes to the museum to get weapons... because she feels that "this pack may pull [her] down by sheer numbers..." so clearly she feels threatened, because they are an actual threat trying to kill her. Just as she was a threat to those guards who she killed, she was the aggressor in that scenario, and those guards were defending themselves, the fact that they were also told to kill her makes little difference, she was trespassing on private property and what they did was justified and supported by the law.

So you prefer that the hostages DIE rather than Wonder Woman breaking in? Do you know why Wonder Woman decided to break-in in the first place What set her off? do you know?

I'd rather she break in, take the guards down without killing them and then save the hostages... but then again, how did she actually know they were there, because (Wonder) Woman's intuition is really not a good enough reason to storm into a warehouse, murder security guards and then find that there are no hostages... then she gets arrested for trespassing, criminal damage, breaking and entering and first degree murder, with no evidence to back her claims...

#35 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: yup and I respect your opinion also. But as I said before this is a TV show not a movie. If you look at the old Lynda Carter show the most popular mainstream version of Wonder Woman her costume also did not look like Amazonian armour. That show had ZERO mythology and she worked for the goverment as Diana Prince. As Wonder Woman her missions consisted of her pretty much rescuing Steve Trevor escaping from being tied up and an occasional fighing an escaped gorrilla or other beast. That is the last primetime live action TV version of Wonder Woman. To introduce the comicbook Wonder Woman with all her mythology ETC probably would be to much for a TV audiance familiar with the Lynda Carter show. Besides I would rather leave all that to a big budget movie so they could do it right. not primetime TV show with a limited budget like this.

Also Theymisciara industires is not absured since it has been established in Wonder Woman comics that Wonder Woman as a public figure does have an agent/publisist who does handle all her merchandise sale's That is her main source of income in the comics. She has no income otherwise. To me it makes sense that she would make money this way being a public superhero and as I said the comics supports this.

This was a TV show and could have added some cool stuff as the seasons changed. I liked the tone and the theme of the show. Also the show did not close the door on adding some mythology. Anything could have happend

The biggest issue people seem to have is that Wonder Woman killed. Well as I said that may or may not have reached the final cut but it was clear to me what Kelley was trying to do and I liked it. It could have been a good elseworld story and a way to reintroduce Wonder Woman to audiences.

Thats my opinion and you are welcome to yours

#36 Edited by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hunter114:

Everything that needed to be finished was finished... inserts and drafts don't matter when it comes to the *actual* plot of a story... my complaints are all about what we actually see in the pilot, because that's what the network saw and that's why they didn't pick it up... movies are reviewed and rated depending on what's in the movie... not the deleted scenes.

Look if you did not like the Plot then thats fine. But do me a favor in your spare time. Try to get your hands on some unaired Pilot and compare them with aired pilots. They are usually very different. Take a look at birds of Prey unaired vs aired the plot is the same but major changes are made. This show did not even get to the unaired pilot stage.

You mean like the time she killed Max Lord? Sure she didn't hide what she did... but she did retire and then worked with the DHS agents who were trying to arrest her as Diana Prince... I would call that hiding away from her actions... considering Wonder Woman was actually a fugitive and "in hiding" at the time.

So Wonder Woman goes to World Court for her actions is aquitted and decides not to be Wonder Woman and you call that hiding? The DHS where not trying to arrest her Sarge Steel who is being manipulated wants Wonder Woman to answer a few questions about the death of Maxwell Lord. He honestly did not have the right to hall her in.

um... well the images clearly show Wonder Woman being attacked and her fighting them off, then she yells at them to run away "but suddenly the street is full of them... waiting with deadly smiles", so she goes to the museum to get weapons... because she feels that "this pack may pull [her] down by sheer numbers..." so clearly she feels threatened, because they are an actual threat trying to kill her.

Right and the best thing to do for a superhero is get an AXE and start chopping up mind controlled ordinary citizens? No Wonder Woman is not perfect and she has a temper as Kelley illustrated. Ever read Kingdom come? Seen Justice LEague animated TV show?

Just as she was a threat to those guards who she killed, she was the aggressor in that scenario, and those guards were defending themselves, the fact that they were also told to kill her makes little difference, she was trespassing on private property and what they did was justified and supported by the law.

Yup and thats exactly what Veronica Cale was going to use in court against Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman would explain her actions in the next episode. Thats exactly what Kelley was going for. Drama. Not a neatly wrapped up warm and fuzzy ending.

I'd rather she break in, take the guards down without killing them and then save the hostages... but then again, how did she actually know they were there, because (Wonder) Woman's intuition is really not a good enough reason to storm into a warehouse, murder security guards and then find that there are no hostages... then she gets arrested for trespassing, criminal damage, breaking and entering and first degree murder, with no evidence to back her claims...

Well great so you actually did not watch the pilot Why am I even bothering to explain all this. Anyway She got the location from John O'Quinn the guy she caught in the beginning. (what the reviewers did not mention that? how suprising) If you actually watched the pilot you would know that. Lets pretend your family is being held in Veronica Cales facility and John O Quinn told Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman told you your family is in her facility. I guess you would still be ok with Wonder Woman waiting around for a warrant that would never come right?

I guess your real issue is that the enviroment and obstacles that kelley incorporated in the show don't have simple black and white solutions like comicbooks or the old Lynda Carter Show. I dont mind so much apparently others do.

#37 Posted by Hunter114 (829 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW:

The difference between aired and unaired pilots doesn't matter... I'm talking about the contents of that pilot because that's the only thing that we've got, sure I consider the rumors and the conjecture, but they're not in the pilot, and that's what I'm judging here.

Wonder Woman in the Justice League cartoon didn't kill anyone... and when the Watchtower destroyed that city, she offered to hand herself over the police as a sign of good faith.

Like I said, I did watch the pilot... and I'm not sure how much you know about the legal system, but telling a judge that you used a magic lasso to coerce a bad-guy into telling you where is secret base lab is located is circumstantial... it could also be classed as torture... either way, that is still not proof of anything at all... she still committed the crime and she should still pay for it.

And if Wonder Woman told me that my family was being held somewhere, I'd firstly ask how she knows, because that's the logical thing to do, then I would call them, and if there was no answer then I'd go with her... and then the scenario remains the same @Hunter114 said:

[Wonder Woman and I] break in, take the guards down without killing them and then save the hostages...

Then I would hand myself over to the police... because I'm not above the law and neither is Wonder Woman.

The issues that I have are these:

Wonder Woman killing on the offensive... if she kills, it's in self defense... she does not launch a pipe at someone and impale them through the chest, when she can just knock them out.

Wonder Woman would answer for her crimes and sort things out with the police (et al) not go on national TV saying... "hey everyone... I just broke into a private facility and killed all the guards brutally... and I'm going to get away with it" - that's not justice at all, and it's not what Wonder Woman, the real Wonder Woman stands for.

#38 Posted by SupremeHyperion (1523 posts) - - Show Bio

by no means amazing and just bad enough to be fun to watch. plus its got Cary Ewels (he alone is worth watching).

#39 Posted by Lvenger (19121 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW said:

@Lvenger: yup and I respect your opinion also. But as I said before this is a TV show not a movie. If you look at the old Lynda Carter show the most popular mainstream version of Wonder Woman her costume also did not look like Amazonian armour. That show had ZERO mythology and she worked for the goverment as Diana Prince. As Wonder Woman her missions consisted of her pretty much rescuing Steve Trevor escaping from being tied up and an occasional fighing an escaped gorrilla or other beast. That is the last primetime live action TV version of Wonder Woman. To introduce the comicbook Wonder Woman with all her mythology ETC probably would be to much for a TV audiance familiar with the Lynda Carter show. Besides I would rather leave all that to a big budget movie so they could do it right. not primetime TV show with a limited budget like this.

Also Theymisciara industires is not absured since it has been established in Wonder Woman comics that Wonder Woman as a public figure does have an agent/publisist who does handle all her merchandise sale's That is her main source of income in the comics. She has no income otherwise. To me it makes sense that she would make money this way being a public superhero and as I said the comics supports this.

This was a TV show and could have added some cool stuff as the seasons changed. I liked the tone and the theme of the show. Also the show did not close the door on adding some mythology. Anything could have happend

The biggest issue people seem to have is that Wonder Woman killed. Well as I said that may or may not have reached the final cut but it was clear to me what Kelley was trying to do and I liked it. It could have been a good elseworld story and a way to reintroduce Wonder Woman to audiences.

Thats my opinion and you are welcome to yours

At least there was some respect for the source material in that WW worked for the government as Diana Prince. Taking Wonder Woman in a completely new direction from what the comics portrayed her as is something that doesn't sit well with the fans. Also assuming the pilot manages to get people interested in Wonder Woman, the comic books portray a completely different image to the one the pilot shows. And Smallville managed to mix the Superman mythology into the show on a limited budget. I would hope whoever's bankrolling the show would put the same money into making the TV show more decent than the pilot made it out to be.

The Themyscira Industries idea is still a silly one. I agree Wonder Woman should be a public figure but turning her into a corporate CEO is something that did not suit the style of the show. Although the jet was cool I have to say. But in the pilot she was made too much like a female Bruce Wayne or Oliver Queen and Diana's a far more independent character than that.

Given that Diana was fighting genetically enhanced super soldiers in the pilot, it would be a big twist to suddenly go "Oh let's put in a magical/mythological enemy for Wonder Woman to fight now!" Making the jump from criminals to fantasy based villains would be too great a leap to make in the show.

Finally the fact Diana killed a security guard in cold blood is an act which is not befitting of her character. It's uncalled for and she only kills when it's a "for the greater good option"

#40 Posted by RyuHayabusa (2019 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW: Powerless wonder woman defending herself. Nice try though.

#41 Posted by TAneT62 (1060 posts) - - Show Bio

Obviously the pilot wasn't finished and it needed more time, if it were fully finished it would have been an amazing pilot ... The fighting scene was awesome, very entertaining, i'm a huge WW fan, and i loved the pilot .... But trhe acting and the costume needed working on

#42 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

That pilot was pure crap. It does not even get the titular character right at all.

#43 Posted by x_29 (2274 posts) - - Show Bio

@RyuHayabusa: AMEN!!

#44 Posted by FinnVarra (226 posts) - - Show Bio

Just finished watching it....god that was awful! I feel like I just killed myself a little bit.

You'd have to be a pretty big WW fans to enjoy that. To each their own I guess.

#45 Edited by wondergirl246 (27 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not going to name names or argue taste, since there apparently exist people who find Sarah Jessica Parker attractive. There's just no accounting for what some people might enjoy.

I will say this: the worst thing about the pilot is not the production value, the costume, or anything cosmetic. It isn't even the writing or acting that bug me the most, and both are really awful. Even for a hack like David E. Kelley it's a mediocre script.

What I hated about it was much more fundamental: This character is not Wonder Woman.

She has some similar powers and the same name, but by stripping away core aspects of her heritage and mythology, it amounts to a cashing in on a familiar name. They only get away with it because of the dearth of popular Wonder Woman media.

Try stripping away Superman's alien backstory or Batman's loss of his parents and see how fans react.

People would dismiss out of hand a show about Clark Kent running "Kal-L Inc." Seriously. Try this crappy setup in place of ANY major character's origin and imagine how it would work.

It's not just an awful setup in and of itself, it's particularly bad for Wonder Woman because she already has such a rich and fascinating history, with so much legend and mythos ripe for mining and adapting.

Really awful, this pilot. That it was even given the greenlight shows how lost DC/WB are in terms of how to use the IP.

#46 Posted by brettjett (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@TAneT62:

You should check out MY review:

http://new.dcuwiki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4238

#47 Posted by TAneT62 (1060 posts) - - Show Bio

I loved the pilot but man how I wished they never changed WW ... Adrian Pallicki was an amazing choice for WW ... My opinion was, I pretty much loved the pilot.

#48 Posted by TAneT62 (1060 posts) - - Show Bio

@brettjett: Yea sure +)

#49 Posted by WDW (1514 posts) - - Show Bio

@TAneT62:

@wondergirl246 said:

I'm not going to name names or argue taste, since there apparently exist people who find Sarah Jessica Parker attractive. There's just no accounting for what some people might enjoy.

I will say this: the worst thing about the pilot is not the production value, the costume, or anything cosmetic. It isn't even the writing or acting that bug me the most, and both are really awful even for a hack like David E. Kelley.

What I hated about it was much more fundamental: This character is not Wonder Woman.

She has some similar powers and the same name, but by stripping away core aspects of her heritage and mythology, it amounts to a cashing in on a familiar name. They only get away with it because of the dearth of popular Wonder Woman media.

Try stripping away Superman's alien backstory or Batman's loss of his parents and see how fans react.

People would dismiss out of hand a show about Clark Kent running "Kal-L Inc." Seriously. Try this crappy setup in place of ANY major character's origin and imagine how it would work.

It's not just an awful setup in and of itself, it's particularly bad for Wonder Woman because she already has such a rich and fascinating history, with so much legend and mythos ripe for mining and adapting.

Really awful, this pilot. That it was even given the greenlight shows how lost DC/WB are in terms of how to use the IP.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. However I liked the pilot on the basis that it was a TV show version Wonder Woman. Personally I was never expecting the TV show to be even close to the Comic Book Wonder Woman although I did see enough similarities in the unfinished raw pilot to make me watch it had it been picked up.

The last TV version of Wonder Woman in 1980 which ran 3 seasons was also NOT the Wonder Woman that we know in comics today. She also had all the mythology stripped away from her character. Also to be fair. The 2011 WW pilot made no indication that her back-story had been changed.

So in essence, there has never been a live action TV show or Movie based on the Post Crisis comic-book Wonder woman that we all love now. If I was in charge I would also be hesitant to dump a whole bunch of mythology, magic, GODs and other post crisis Wonder Woman stuff on a major networks prime TV audience that only know Wonder Woman from the Lynda Carter Version and regard LAW and ORDER type shows as the best shows on TV. Had it been the SCIFI channel I am sure they would go more for the Comic-book Wonder Woman but they cant afford to pay the license fee Warner Bros charges for Wonder Woman.

Superman and Batman don't have a lot of fantastical , mythological magical stuff in there background so its easier for them to make shows like Lois and Clark and Smallville. ok...Well Batman does not need a TV show :P But they where going to to a TV show about the GRAYSON'S (robin)

So that being said I was hoping this show could kind of be the bridge between the two versions of Wonder Woman. The Comic Version and the Lynda Carter 1980's show. I thought it did a decent job of doing that. Had it been even marginally successful which it could have been (compared to all the other CRAP on prime time TV) it would have given Warner Bros more confidence in green lighting a Wonder Woman movie.

A Wonder Woman Movie would certainly stick to all the magic mythology and stuff because that's what makes great movies. Not so much prime-time major network TV shows

Anyway that's my 2cents

#50 Posted by Lvenger (19121 posts) - - Show Bio

@WDW said:

@TAneT62:

@wondergirl246 said:

I'm not going to name names or argue taste, since there apparently exist people who find Sarah Jessica Parker attractive. There's just no accounting for what some people might enjoy.

I will say this: the worst thing about the pilot is not the production value, the costume, or anything cosmetic. It isn't even the writing or acting that bug me the most, and both are really awful even for a hack like David E. Kelley.

What I hated about it was much more fundamental: This character is not Wonder Woman.

She has some similar powers and the same name, but by stripping away core aspects of her heritage and mythology, it amounts to a cashing in on a familiar name. They only get away with it because of the dearth of popular Wonder Woman media.

Try stripping away Superman's alien backstory or Batman's loss of his parents and see how fans react.

People would dismiss out of hand a show about Clark Kent running "Kal-L Inc." Seriously. Try this crappy setup in place of ANY major character's origin and imagine how it would work.

It's not just an awful setup in and of itself, it's particularly bad for Wonder Woman because she already has such a rich and fascinating history, with so much legend and mythos ripe for mining and adapting.

Really awful, this pilot. That it was even given the greenlight shows how lost DC/WB are in terms of how to use the IP.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. However I liked the pilot on the basis that it was a TV show version Wonder Woman. Personally I was never expecting the TV show to be even close to the Comic Book Wonder Woman although I did see enough similarities in the unfinished raw pilot to make me watch it had it been picked up.

The last TV version of Wonder Woman in 1980 which ran 3 seasons was also NOT the Wonder Woman that we know in comics today. She also had all the mythology stripped away from her character. Also to be fair. The 2011 WW pilot made no indication that her back-story had been changed.

So in essence, there has never been a live action TV show or Movie based on the Post Crisis comic-book Wonder woman that we all love now. If I was in charge I would also be hesitant to dump a whole bunch of mythology, magic, GODs and other post crisis Wonder Woman stuff on a major networks prime TV audience that only know Wonder Woman from the Lynda Carter Version and regard LAW and ORDER type shows as the best shows on TV. Had it been the SCIFI channel I am sure they would go more for the Comic-book Wonder Woman but they cant afford to pay the license fee Warner Bros charges for Wonder Woman.

Superman and Batman don't have a lot of fantastical , mythological magical stuff in there background so its easier for them to make shows like Lois and Clark and Smallville. ok...Well Batman does not need a TV show :P But they where going to to a TV show about the GRAYSON'S (robin)

So that being said I was hoping this show could kind of be the bridge between the two versions of Wonder Woman. The Comic Version and the Lynda Carter 1980's show. I thought it did a decent job of doing that. Had it been even marginally successful which it could have been (compared to all the other CRAP on prime time TV) it would have given Warner Bros more confidence in green lighting a Wonder Woman movie.

A Wonder Woman Movie would certainly stick to all the magic mythology and stuff because that's what makes great movies. Not so much prime-time major network TV shows

Anyway that's my 2cents

Whilst I'm not American and will take your word that law and order shows are pretty popular over there, the fact is that the Wonder Woman pilot mixed two things together horribly. On the one hand you have Wonder Woman's mythological/fantasy background in that she comes from Paradise Island, was made from clay and given life by the Olympian Gods. The pilot does indicate that WW has a mythological background as at the dinner with the Senator, he says that she's not human by our standards. Also her flashback with Steve Trevor indicates that she's an Amazon from Themyscira. That indicates to me that they were going with the original backstory. On the other hand, we have a corporate law and order type of show. Both are all well and good on their own. But when the pilot mixed them together, it had a horrible result. The fact that this corporate CEO who's also a superhero/vigilante who is in fact an Amazon princess from the island of Themyscira would have been ridiculous for the audience to stomach. There can be no bridge between the comic book version and the Lynda Carter version.

Smallville and the Green Arrow pilot did at least some things right. They kept the essence of each character whilst providing changes that the audience would enjoy. Clark Kent is still an alien raised on a farm, they simply focused more on the Smallville aspect of his backstory. And Green Arrow is still about a marooned billionaire on an island who returns and begins to clean up his city as a vigilante. Wonder Woman does not respect the source material so if her fantasy background can't be correctly interpreted into TV format as you say, then the idea for a WW TV show should never have been conceived.

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